Please no more Sliver talk -_- Talk about savage summoning please! This is a serious card with myriad applications.
Summoning is pretty darn aggressive. On the one hand, it's annoying that Wizards is still pushing aggro in such an obvious way (reference Cavern of Souls). But on the other hand, it's always nice at least for nonrotating formats to have playable anti-control cards. If nothing else, the card helps out the countermagic dimension of the UWR matchup, although it isn't terrible effective against the removal aspect. That said, the +1/+1 counter is nothing to sneeze at, and in the right situation, it can pull a creature out of bolt range.
I'm having difficulty figuring out exactly what deck this goes into. It's almost definitely a sideboard card, but none of the decks that could take it really need it; aggro generally tries to overwhelm control with a critical threat mass, with no individual creature having too much more value than others. In the end, its home might be in a midrange deck that looks to cast creatures at the EOT to keep countermagic mana open. A Bant shell packing everyone's favorite Tarmogoyf comes to mind.
I don't think Savage Summoning will see play at all. Similar one-mana spells have never really caught on in any format, aside from occasional very narrow use (e.g. Overmaster in Legacy). SS does a lot, but doesn't even replace itself. I don't see how decks will want to spend valuable slots on this.
I think Savage Summoning is a waste of a card. The only game-winning creatures are either very expensive (fatties), can't be countered (Emrakul, Thrun) or are in decks that probably would rather play more disruption (Bob in Jund) or creatures (Pod). It's also a waste of a card if your opponent plays removal on the creature instead (probably the best thing it can do is make guys dodge Bolt).
It's probably best with Primeval Titan in Scapeshift, but even then, it does nothing to help Scapeshift.
My plan in this Storm deck is to cast Young Pyromancer, then a bunch of rituals, then Goblin Bushwhacker. Or a bunch of rituals, then Empty the Warrens, then Goblin Bushwhacker. The objective is to be able to win at a lower storm count, much like the previous versions of Storm that played Grapeshot/Pyromancer's Swath.
I still have 1 copy of Grapeshot (-1 Goblin Electromancer for it) for cases where you don't draw Bushwhacker but have 2 mana after Warrens - you just use it to wipe your opponent's field. Of course it's also possible to win off just Grapeshot alone, but those cases are rarer, because we don't have Song any more. Winning with Grapeshot alone usually involves Young Pyromancer providing sacrifice fodder for Infernal Plunge. Plunge is as good as Song, giving +2 mana.
Young Pyromancer is really good. I see it more as a tempo-ish card that you can cast, then sit behind with cantrips and counters while amassing an ever growing army. That is a really interesting take on storm however. Perhaps Pyromancer is the card to break infernal plunge?
Edit: I'm going to make a bold prediction and say that Young Pyromancer will go down as red's "power 2 drop" to compliment Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, and Tarmogoyf. It's really powerful.
Please no more Sliver talk -_- Talk about savage summoning please! This is a serious card with myriad applications.
Very few modern decks care about getting their creatures countered all that much. Even in the event that a creature can get countered, it's not like wasting a card to prevent the counter that your opponent may not even have is worth it since you're still losing a card. This is unplayable in jund / GBx midrange as it slows you down a turn while also being card disadvantage. In Zoo, it's way too slow. It has no place in any control variant since once again, it's card disadvantage.
The only place I see this being good is in a deck that wants to force through a single powerful creature (primeval titan?) to win the game. That being said, Cavern of Souls might just be better in that role anyway, so it's a bit of a moot point.
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The two decks work similarly; every creature is a lord. You have Predatory and Sinew Sliver. However, Merfolk is mono-colored, and has more lords at 2 (important for AEther Vial).
Not that I think its particularly likely that slivers become a competitive deck, but in addition to Predatory Sliver and Sinew Sliver, they have Sidewinder Sliver, Gemhide Sliver, and the slightly weaker Shadow Sliver and Frenzy Sliver.
No love for Savage SUmmoning? I will make something of it, no worries
My thought is that it goes in midrange and wrecks Tempo strats. You are playing vs UWR. Savage Summoning is cast it at the end of turn 3 with an empty board, summon a goyf who is automatically too fat to bolt and swing with it. Naya and Hatebears would love this. Any white creature strategies could splash for it. Bant likes to play critters at EOT then save mana for counters. There is something here I can feel it.
Young Pyromancer is really good. I see it more as a tempo-ish card that you can cast, then sit behind with cantrips and counters while amassing an ever growing army. That is a really interesting take on storm however. Perhaps Pyromancer is the card to break infernal plunge?
Edit: I'm going to make a bold prediction and say that Young Pyromancer will go down as red's "power 2 drop" to compliment Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, and Tarmogoyf. It's really powerful.
I'm trying it in RUG Delver, and it's fairly mediocre there. I tend to play conservatively, so I tend to drain my spells by the time I play something with counter back-up (or not even counter back-up). There was a time against Ajani Jund where the guy made 4 Elemental tokens before he got Ajani Vengeanted, but those times are pretty rare.
Dying to every single removal spell on the planet and getting hosed hard by Electrolyze doesn't help. It almost forces you to have the versatile instant/sorcery in hand when you cast him.
I doubt RDW wants him because he chunks up the curve if you want value.
I'm playing it in this shell as a test, and similar to Dark Confidant, it feels pretty unfair if you can untap with it in play. I'm tempted to try a Grixis Delver variant of this, pairing it with Confidant and hand disruption.
Badd, you've usually got really good stuff to say, so I'm taking your word on it. I do feel like he can be powerful at second glace, in the same way that stoneforge was a buck rare for a year before anyone figured her out. But red rarely likes to let the game be "Controlly" so I think something that allows for a stream of spells would be better. nivmagus/kiln style, storm, even 1 cmc rdw.
Badd, you've usually got really good stuff to say, so I'm taking your word on it. I do feel like he can be powerful at second glace, in the same way that stoneforge was a buck rare for a year before anyone figured her out. But red rarely likes to let the game be "Controlly" so I think something that allows for a stream of spells would be better. nivmagus/kiln style, storm, even 1 cmc rdw.
SFM is a 2for1, yes, but half of what it is for the time being is batterskull (and jitte in legacy), that's why it was worth 1$. It's just that they can't just ban batterskull because if suffers from the survival of the fittest problem... (weird, a another tutor fitting that description, this reminds me of something...3(P/G)). Wait, wrong thread :).
Just wanted to add that savage summong is total crap.
SFM is a 2for1, yes, but half of what it is for the time being is batterskull (and jitte in legacy). It's just that they can't just ban batterskull because if suffers the survival of the fittest problem... (weird, a another tutor fitting that description, this reminds me of something...3(P/G)). Wait, wrong thread :).
Lol right. But she started clawing up in fame during standard getting sword of feast and famine first, prior to batter. I remember it because I was on point, and got a playset for an omoth, locus of mana. Not to say "I'm awesome, i figured tech out before pros" since I was using it for tribal knights at the time... But I did see how powerful it was and then a week later she was the next big thing.
However, Im really sad this dude lacks haste. With it hed be a beast. I think for him to be the 2 cmc Ive been waiting my whole life for, hed have to have haste, and make eles that maybe have haste. I understand hes a common, and Im suggesting a rare, but in my testing with out that haste, he just lacks a bit. For example:
In rdw hed come out turn 2, and with magic christmas land, a bolt off deathrite mana. Turn 3 he swings for 3, then turn 4 about 4-5. in total, thats 7. Very good. But if it were ash zelot in his place theres first strike and haste, hitting for turn 4, 6 damage without any work.
In the tempo shell Badd posted, so long as you didnt have him crumble, he was really good, but very very slow. I wondered if something like delver was just better. He had envitablity, but only after you grinded the opponent out.
Still, I'll pick up 4 because he was ton of fun! Like one of the few cards I can admit to liking just for giggles, and his arts cool. If it actually goes anywhere, then sweet... but I dont think hes our 2 cmc red.
Lol right. But she started clawing up in fame during standard getting sword of feast and famine first, prior to batter. I remember it because I was on point, and got a playset for an omoth, locus of mana. Not to say "I'm awesome, i figured tech out before pros" since I was using it for tribal knights at the time... But I did see how powerful it was and then a week later she was the next big thing.
That's because sword of feast and famine was good enough for standard... also, caws.
I'll explain why the red mage is not that good, even with haste: it needs spells in your hand, and not any kind of spells either...
Yes, thought of that too... I have to explain everything! :-/:-/;)
In burn: too many creatures with guide, devil, etc.
Tempo: it looks like its best place, but you can't rely on a 2/1 that makes 1/1s to win the race... the best creature here is geist.
Other decks: hmm can't think of other decks where this might be good.
Problem is, with these numbers (2/1 + 1/1s), plus his restrictions, I don't see it being good enough. Good like playable somewhere, sometime on a different meta, yes, but not signature good...
Ofc, might be wrong.
Yes, thought of that too... I have to explain everything! :-/:-/;)
In burn: too many creatures with guide, devil, etc.
Tempo: it looks like its best place, but you can't rely on a 2/1 that makes 1/1s to win the race... the best creature here is geist.
Other decks: hmm can't think of other decks where this might be good.
Problem is, with these numbers (2/1 + 1/1s), plus his restrictions, I don't see it being good enough. Good like playable somewhere, sometime on a different meta, yes, but not signature good...
Ofc, might be wrong.
Wait... I have a brilliant Idea. You play both Geist and Pyromancer... wow... that took tons of complex thought...
Look at it this way. If you play enough cheap instants, it's very very easy to make 4-7 power worth of creatures as early as turn 4. Compare this to tarmogoyf, and you get 4 power worth of creatures, but that of which can be dealt with via a single removal spell. When you're protecting this with spell pierces, thought scours, and similar cheap cantrips, it's very easy to create a large amount of power on the board quite early.
Pyromancer vs Geist has one crucial difference: to get the most out of Pyromancer, you have to lead with him first. You can drop Geist any time, before or after you play your instants and sorceries, it doesn't matter.
If both players' boards and hands are clear, Geist is a better topdeck than Pyromancer.
The two decks work similarly; every creature is a lord. You have Predatory and Sinew Sliver. However, Merfolk is mono-colored, and has more lords at 2 (important for AEther Vial).
Slivers have telekinetic sliver and vindicate sliver. You can either lock opponent's board or blow it up, which merfolk can't do.
I doubt they will be competitive, but there are reasons to try making the deck.
Unless we see a hexproof sliver, a junk shell with a bit of red is likely the best bet for Slivers. It still gives them access to an impressive suite of removal and discard.
Summoning is pretty darn aggressive. On the one hand, it's annoying that Wizards is still pushing aggro in such an obvious way (reference Cavern of Souls). But on the other hand, it's always nice at least for nonrotating formats to have playable anti-control cards. If nothing else, the card helps out the countermagic dimension of the UWR matchup, although it isn't terrible effective against the removal aspect. That said, the +1/+1 counter is nothing to sneeze at, and in the right situation, it can pull a creature out of bolt range.
I'm having difficulty figuring out exactly what deck this goes into. It's almost definitely a sideboard card, but none of the decks that could take it really need it; aggro generally tries to overwhelm control with a critical threat mass, with no individual creature having too much more value than others. In the end, its home might be in a midrange deck that looks to cast creatures at the EOT to keep countermagic mana open. A Bant shell packing everyone's favorite Tarmogoyf comes to mind.
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It's probably best with Primeval Titan in Scapeshift, but even then, it does nothing to help Scapeshift.
My plan in this Storm deck is to cast Young Pyromancer, then a bunch of rituals, then Goblin Bushwhacker. Or a bunch of rituals, then Empty the Warrens, then Goblin Bushwhacker. The objective is to be able to win at a lower storm count, much like the previous versions of Storm that played Grapeshot/Pyromancer's Swath.
I still have 1 copy of Grapeshot (-1 Goblin Electromancer for it) for cases where you don't draw Bushwhacker but have 2 mana after Warrens - you just use it to wipe your opponent's field. Of course it's also possible to win off just Grapeshot alone, but those cases are rarer, because we don't have Song any more. Winning with Grapeshot alone usually involves Young Pyromancer providing sacrifice fodder for Infernal Plunge. Plunge is as good as Song, giving +2 mana.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Edit: I'm going to make a bold prediction and say that Young Pyromancer will go down as red's "power 2 drop" to compliment Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, and Tarmogoyf. It's really powerful.
Very few modern decks care about getting their creatures countered all that much. Even in the event that a creature can get countered, it's not like wasting a card to prevent the counter that your opponent may not even have is worth it since you're still losing a card. This is unplayable in jund / GBx midrange as it slows you down a turn while also being card disadvantage. In Zoo, it's way too slow. It has no place in any control variant since once again, it's card disadvantage.
The only place I see this being good is in a deck that wants to force through a single powerful creature (primeval titan?) to win the game. That being said, Cavern of Souls might just be better in that role anyway, so it's a bit of a moot point.
Not that I think its particularly likely that slivers become a competitive deck, but in addition to Predatory Sliver and Sinew Sliver, they have Sidewinder Sliver, Gemhide Sliver, and the slightly weaker Shadow Sliver and Frenzy Sliver.
My thought is that it goes in midrange and wrecks Tempo strats. You are playing vs UWR. Savage Summoning is cast it at the end of turn 3 with an empty board, summon a goyf who is automatically too fat to bolt and swing with it. Naya and Hatebears would love this. Any white creature strategies could splash for it. Bant likes to play critters at EOT then save mana for counters. There is something here I can feel it.
I'm trying it in RUG Delver, and it's fairly mediocre there. I tend to play conservatively, so I tend to drain my spells by the time I play something with counter back-up (or not even counter back-up). There was a time against Ajani Jund where the guy made 4 Elemental tokens before he got Ajani Vengeanted, but those times are pretty rare.
Dying to every single removal spell on the planet and getting hosed hard by Electrolyze doesn't help. It almost forces you to have the versatile instant/sorcery in hand when you cast him.
I doubt RDW wants him because he chunks up the curve if you want value.
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
Instants / Sorceries
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Snare
4 Remand
4 Lightning Helix
2 Path to Exile
3 Spell Pierce
3 Serum Visions
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
3 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Seachrome Coast
Mod double posted! Banned!
Just wanted to add that savage summong is total crap.
SFM is a 2for1, yes, but half of what it is for the time being is batterskull (and jitte in legacy), that's why it was worth 1$. It's just that they can't just ban batterskull because if suffers from the survival of the fittest problem... (weird, a another tutor fitting that description, this reminds me of something...3(P/G)). Wait, wrong thread :).
Lol right. But she started clawing up in fame during standard getting sword of feast and famine first, prior to batter. I remember it because I was on point, and got a playset for an omoth, locus of mana. Not to say "I'm awesome, i figured tech out before pros" since I was using it for tribal knights at the time... But I did see how powerful it was and then a week later she was the next big thing.
However, Im really sad this dude lacks haste. With it hed be a beast. I think for him to be the 2 cmc Ive been waiting my whole life for, hed have to have haste, and make eles that maybe have haste. I understand hes a common, and Im suggesting a rare, but in my testing with out that haste, he just lacks a bit. For example:
In rdw hed come out turn 2, and with magic christmas land, a bolt off deathrite mana. Turn 3 he swings for 3, then turn 4 about 4-5. in total, thats 7. Very good. But if it were ash zelot in his place theres first strike and haste, hitting for turn 4, 6 damage without any work.
In the tempo shell Badd posted, so long as you didnt have him crumble, he was really good, but very very slow. I wondered if something like delver was just better. He had envitablity, but only after you grinded the opponent out.
Still, I'll pick up 4 because he was ton of fun! Like one of the few cards I can admit to liking just for giggles, and his arts cool. If it actually goes anywhere, then sweet... but I dont think hes our 2 cmc red.
That's because sword of feast and famine was good enough for standard... also, caws.
I'll explain why the red mage is not that good, even with haste: it needs spells in your hand, and not any kind of spells either...
you mean you have to build your deck properly to get the most out of the cards you're playing? THIS IS TOTALLY NEW INFORMATION.
In burn: too many creatures with guide, devil, etc.
Tempo: it looks like its best place, but you can't rely on a 2/1 that makes 1/1s to win the race... the best creature here is geist.
Other decks: hmm can't think of other decks where this might be good.
Problem is, with these numbers (2/1 + 1/1s), plus his restrictions, I don't see it being good enough. Good like playable somewhere, sometime on a different meta, yes, but not signature good...
Ofc, might be wrong.
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Serum Visions
4 Shard Volley
4 Rift Bolt
4 Electrolyze
4 Remand
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Hermit Druid Combo:
Wait... I have a brilliant Idea. You play both Geist and Pyromancer... wow... that took tons of complex thought...
Look at it this way. If you play enough cheap instants, it's very very easy to make 4-7 power worth of creatures as early as turn 4. Compare this to tarmogoyf, and you get 4 power worth of creatures, but that of which can be dealt with via a single removal spell. When you're protecting this with spell pierces, thought scours, and similar cheap cantrips, it's very easy to create a large amount of power on the board quite early.
If both players' boards and hands are clear, Geist is a better topdeck than Pyromancer.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I like it. He seems to fit perfect in UR Delver. Now if only we could have ponder and/or preordain back.
My tweaks:
-4 Grim Lavamancer, +4 Goblin Guide
-4 Electrolyze. +4 Izzet Charm
--
Seems like a solid tempo list.
Slivers have telekinetic sliver and vindicate sliver. You can either lock opponent's board or blow it up, which merfolk can't do.
I doubt they will be competitive, but there are reasons to try making the deck.
Unless we see a hexproof sliver, a junk shell with a bit of red is likely the best bet for Slivers. It still gives them access to an impressive suite of removal and discard.
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