I want to make an argument for the unban of Ponder and/or Pre-Ordain that I have never heard anyone present before. It has to do with the "type" of magic one is playing.
Good Stuff vs. Synergy Based
Synergy Based: Decks in which the power created by card interaction is much more powerful than the individual cards in said deck, by many orders of magnitude. May or may not be combo decks. Example: Death and Taxes.
Good Stuff: Decks which run cards that are powerful on their own simply because they are powerful on their own. Built with no regard for card interaction and all said interaction is merely incidental. Example: Jund.
P&P helps Synergy Based decks hit those interactions more often and at the right time. Good Stuff decks could care less because all of their top decks are relatively good and do something regardless of board state (with few exceptions like Thoughtseize and non-man lands late game).
So if it is beneficial to the growth of the format to see more interaction based decks (and I would argue that it is indeed, because they are more interesting to watch and play with in general/on average), then P and/or P should be unbanned to encourage such decks.
What you said about synergy is EXACTLY RIGHT. I play several synergy based decks that are great when you draw the right cards, but can flounder horribly if you don't. Hell, even mana screw is a major issue for most decks. Modern very badly needs more library manipulation in every color - I don't care if it's a blue thing, every color should be able to make good decks. We need more cantrips and more scry, and maybe even a few more tutors (not as good as pod, though). Or else every deck will simply be 'good stuff'.
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Things WotC cares about:
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
What you said about synergy is EXACTLY RIGHT. I play several synergy based decks that are great when you draw the right cards, but can flounder horribly if you don't. Hell, even mana screw is a major issue for most decks. Modern very badly needs more library manipulation in every color - I don't care if it's a blue thing, every color should be able to make good decks. We need more cantrips and more scry, and maybe even a few more tutors (not as good as pod, though). Or else every deck will simply be 'good stuff'.
I don't understand. The only decks that could really be considered good stuff are Jund and possibly UWR. The other 80% of modern is things like Affinity, Tron, Melira Pod, Twin, Merfolk, Melira Pod, Kiki Pod, Storm, Delver, Scapeshift, Burn.
What you said about synergy is EXACTLY RIGHT. I play several synergy based decks that are great when you draw the right cards, but can flounder horribly if you don't. Hell, even mana screw is a major issue for most decks. Modern very badly needs more library manipulation in every color - I don't care if it's a blue thing, every color should be able to make good decks. We need more cantrips and more scry, and maybe even a few more tutors (not as good as pod, though). Or else every deck will simply be 'good stuff'.
If mana screw is difficult for you in modern, you are either being too greedy or you need to re evaluate how you made it. Modern has the greediest man bases by far, to the point where decks can play both cryptic command and lightning helix and hit everything consistently
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
conley woods is a super crappy writer and is typically forgetting something important when he champions a new deck (usually the meta). He also seems to have lost all creativity and is 'magically' a week behind every other writer on any given topic.
I think without any ritual effects in the format its not 'fair' that DRS exists and chrome mox doesn't. maybe its the difference of it being a creature or not. If chrome mox was a 1/1 I'd day legalize it.
Okay random person, obviously you know way more about Magic writing than Conley to make such bold and poor statements.
DRS really pushes the speed envelope for combo doesn't it? Oh wait, it does the opposite, its like the Brainstorm of Modern. Obviously powerful, but more pillar than broken.
You want to make aggro and midrange decks better? Bring back Jitte.
From what I've read here, wouldn't Jitte kill aggro? And isn't the format already mostly midrange? It seems Conley Woods really doesn't know what's going on.
1. It is a turn 3 uncounterable instant speed batterskull.
2. Its a one card combo.
3. Stoneforge tutor batterskull is still value if they remove stoneforge.
4. Its relevant even turn 5-6.
5. Both cards are individually good. Even without the other they are majn deckable.
6. It makes an underplayed archetype (aggro) worse whilst pushing yet more midrange.
7. It warps ever midrange deck to play/splash stoneforge/skull
8. All of the above is obvious.
Fair enough. But I didn't say now. Is it unreasonable to think that SFM could come off in the future after cards like Jace and Green Sun's Zenith are viewed as safe in the format?
I think it's time for Bloodbraid Elf to come back. Is it a good card? Yep. Is Jund going to somehow be overly oppressive vs the current format just because of this card? Not even close. Jund is a good, fair deck. In a format ripe with combos, fair isn't where you want to be atm.
Isn't it odd then that Jund rips apart creature based combo decks like Splinter Twin? And if combo decks could beat Jund, wouldn't the meta have changed to fight Jund before it was banned? Also, with BGx decks being a huge part of the format right now it isn't safe.
Well, the card that actually broke out Stoneforge Mystic was neither of those cards. It was Sword of Feast and Famine. In a format where bg decks make for a respectable portion of the metagame the impact of getting this online early enough should be quite good.
Without Batterskull or Jitte, the worst thing that it can do is get a sword. That means that you are paying 2 mana for a Squire+Steelshaper's Gift and then giving the sword a 1 mana discount and making it uncounterable. The sword can't be equipped to anything until turn 4. How is that in any way broken?
If you honestly think that Chrome Mox will be a problem in Twin decks when most good players have explicitly stated that they only go for the combo at the last minute and are moving away from it towards a more tempo-oriented plan, then your evaluation skill is the one that needs to be put into question. Even when the king of fast mana was legal (Rite) Twin didn't play fast mana cards. And that was in a format even faster than the current one. P&P are unbans that are many times more problematic in the face of Twin than Chrome Mox could ever be.
There is not a single good infect player that wants to -2 their hand for speed. I say this as a religious infect player. Contrary to popular belief the deck only windmill slams the early game win when their opponent is completely tapped out and you have the near god hand. In fact the CM hurts such a play because it takes away one of your pump spells or an infect creature, and every single one of those pump spells is extremely important to such fast wins. The CM doesn't even contribute to poison count in the way our main mana-producer Noble Heirarch does.
As for Griselbrand we all know that deck is a glass canon pile of trash. Its already got all the speed it wants in that Spirit Giude. The deck doesn't want more speed, its got that in spades already and giving it more would be like giving a jet that goes Mach5 1 more mph in speed. In other words: totally pointless and not helpful to its game plan. It wants more consistency, not speed.
CM might be a problem in some deck down the line or one that just doesn't show up much yet, but it is certainly not too powerful in Twin, Griss, or Infect.
Actually, this is a good point. Look at the decks that Chrome Mox could be used in.
In Griselbrand Reanimator it might replace Simian Spirit Guide, but would that make it any faster? The deck doesn't have enough room to run both Mox and Guide.
In Storm it would allow turn 1 Electromancer/Ascension. This is what I think the biggest problem would be.
In Ad Nauseam, it would see play, but the deck still couldn't combo before turn 4.
In Splinter Twin, it might not see play. What are the chances that you would have Chrome Mox, Splinter Twin, and Exarch/Pestermite in your top 10 cards (of course, if Preordain and Ponder were unbanned, this could be a problem).
Tezzerator and WR Lockdown would both get large boosts from this.
So the questions are, would it make Storm too fast and would it make Twin too fast if Ponder and Preordain were unbanned with it.
haha, Modern Jund (aka BGx shell) is not the Alara Jund (aka the pile of the best cards in the format). BGx is a suicide, black, aggro-control deck, that uses the graveyard as a resource, and it is with powerful interactions between the cards (Bob+Lili breaks the symmetry of her +1, while allowing the Goyfs and Scoozes to grow, the Loam recycles, discarding Lingering souls is sort of card advantage and so on.)
Jund doesn't play Life from the Loam. Also, I wouldn't define Goyf, Deathrite Shaman, and Scavenging Ooze as having synergy. It is impressive that they even work together in the same deck.
I don't understand. The only decks that could really be considered good stuff are Jund and possibly UWR. The other 80% of modern is things like Affinity, Tron, Melira Pod, Twin, Merfolk, Melira Pod, Kiki Pod, Storm, Delver, Scapeshift, Burn.
When I say synergy, I mean cards that work together in an a unique way. Burn, for example, is not synergistic, the cards don't interact at all with each other. Storm, Affinity, and Merfolk are all built on one mechanic. Pod is synergistic (when actually using pod), but given it's a very powerful library manipulation tool it's not surprising. Delver itself is synergistic, though the rest of the deck you might put Delver in may or may not be.
I shouldn't have implied that all tier one decks are good stuff, but I do believe that a lot of tier two decks are held back because they lack consistency. Some more consistency tools in every color would be good for Modern, I think, although done in such a way that it doesn't benefit combo (Twin, especially, doesn't need help) I also think mana screw/flood is an issue. Although, I play online a lot, and most online players think that way.
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Things WotC cares about:
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
From what I've read here, wouldn't Jitte kill aggro? And isn't the format already mostly midrange? It seems Conley Woods really doesn't know what's going on.
Yes. and he says it will open up more midrange, somthing there is already plenty of.
Consistency makes the decks boring and repetitive, kills the deckbuilding and the novely of the playing against the same deck.
The ideal Burn deck is something like - 40 Bolts, 20 mountains - how fun is to play against this?
Merfolks - the same buffing creature 12-16 times (with clone effects).
Consistency makes deck playable. The decks you mention manage to be consistent by playing a very narrow range of similar cards. They get by without having consistency because the cards don't rely on each other. Sure, they may help each other, but the player doesn't need specific cards to win, any combination of 5 or 6 merfolk will probably be enough to win the game. Likewise, 7 or 8 burn cards will probably win you the game, which cards you draw doesn't matter that much.
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Things WotC cares about:
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
Jeez, Conley's article was terrible. It just really shows that very few of the pro's keep up with Modern to any significant degree. He says no one is talking about SotM? He thinks Chrome Mox and Jitte should be unbanned? He wants GSZ, Kitty, and Punishing Fires off the list? Whatwhatwhat?
Consistency makes the decks boring and repetitive, kills the deckbuilding and the novely of the playing against the same deck.
The ideal Burn deck is something like - 40 Bolts, 20 mountains - how fun is to play against this?
Merfolks - the same buffing creature 12-16 times (with clone effects).
That is why singleton formats offer superior experience (you can replay many matches with totaly different cards from the same deck). Modern Singleton could be a thing in the future (if EDH becomes even more popular and some people start playing 60 cards singleton formats ).
Troll, get out. We're not here to talk about fun or boring or consistency or variety. We are talking about a COMPETITIVE format, not here to talk about EDH or some other ****ty format. You don't like consistency? Then go back to your kitchen table and stay the **** away from our forums.
^Talks about "competitive format," is terrified of unbans on clearly safe cards. Who's being unreasonable again?
Honestly I stand by the opinion that most of the banlist can come off. The fact that this glass-cannon Griselbrand deck can't even make tier 1 despite being explosive as all hell means that the format can adapt for fast, fragile combo. So why are the dredge pieces and Chrome Mox banned? No combo deck with those pieces would be any faster or more consistent than the stupid griselbrand deck, especially since Chrome Mox by definition leads to inconsistency, because not all Chrome Mox hands are keepable. Play with the card before you pull out your pitchforks. It's fine.
The GSZ/Nacatl bans were supposed to "diversify aggro archetypes." Aggro is basically nonexistent outside of affinity. So why not throw G/x a bone and make a viable Zoo deck that people actually have to worry about? The format has changed a ton, and now there are actual decks that can run Wrath effects maindeck to punish Zoo, where before that wasn't the case, since control was killed with the initial banlist and took forever to really start to emerge.
Punishing Fire is the fairest magic you can possibly play. In Legacy Punishing Jund/Maverick are the definition of fair. All it does is kill creatures. It does it well, yes, but it's inefficient and wastes time to keep recurring and firing every turn. Plus a lot of things dodge Fires as it is, and Scavenging Ooze and Deathrite have been printed since the ban and prey on that card naturally. So why not let essentially fair decks have an engine that isn't a planeswalker? Sword of the Meek is an engine too: it's not a combo, it doesn't win the game when assembled, it merely lets you efficiently turn open mana into resources. It comes on too late to really stall aggro and it's easily countered by control. It's not hard to die after ThopterSword is assembled, any combo deck ignores it, so the only thing it really blanks completely is creature-based midrange with no disruption or reach. And doesn't that deck deserve a predator?
Jitte is rough in that the new legend rule made it harder to unban. Essentially every creature deck will want to play it, but BGx will have the most answers to it in the form of Decay and Pulse, and therefore will win most Jitte mirrors and cement the deck even further as the best archetype. Before you could just play your own Jitte and legend rule them, but now since each one has to be removed the whole idea just isn't worth it for what benefit it would give to the format. The same reasoning applies to Jace: it's not too good or unfair or anything, in fact it's weaker in this format than in Legacy, but the fact that matchups will come down to landing Jace AND answering the opponents means it causes too many headaches.
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
^Talks about "competitive format," is terrified of unbans on clearly safe cards. Who's being unreasonable again?
Fair or unfair, safe or not, the problem is none of those cards help aggro or control, aside from Nacatl. we don't need MORE cards that help combo and midrange, when the format is almost literally Combo vs Midrange.
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that's the inevitability of the format. midrange will out value aggro as more and more pushed stuff is printed. unless they print some ridiculous 1 drop that doubles as free mana so you can dump your hand quicker.
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I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
Let me say this, you Unban Sun's and I will have a field day. The card is great, I love it in my Elf deck and I think it's a wonderful tutor. I also think it's bonkers and should stay right where it is.
As for Punishing fire, yep, that's right, make the decks running Ooze ever better while making life a living hell for everyone else. Good plan. Let's do it
^Talks about "competitive format," is terrified of unbans on clearly safe cards. Who's being unreasonable again?
Honestly I stand by the opinion that most of the banlist can come off. The fact that this glass-cannon Griselbrand deck can't even make tier 1 despite being explosive as all hell means that the format can adapt for fast, fragile combo. So why are the dredge pieces and Chrome Mox banned? No combo deck with those pieces would be any faster or more consistent than the stupid griselbrand deck, especially since Chrome Mox by definition leads to inconsistency, because not all Chrome Mox hands are keepable. Play with the card before you pull out your pitchforks. It's fine.
The GSZ/Nacatl bans were supposed to "diversify aggro archetypes." Aggro is basically nonexistent outside of affinity. So why not throw G/x a bone and make a viable Zoo deck that people actually have to worry about? The format has changed a ton, and now there are actual decks that can run Wrath effects maindeck to punish Zoo, where before that wasn't the case, since control was killed with the initial banlist and took forever to really start to emerge.
Punishing Fire is the fairest magic you can possibly play. In Legacy Punishing Jund/Maverick are the definition of fair. All it does is kill creatures. It does it well, yes, but it's inefficient and wastes time to keep recurring and firing every turn. Plus a lot of things dodge Fires as it is, and Scavenging Ooze and Deathrite have been printed since the ban and prey on that card naturally. So why not let essentially fair decks have an engine that isn't a planeswalker? Sword of the Meek is an engine too: it's not a combo, it doesn't win the game when assembled, it merely lets you efficiently turn open mana into resources. It comes on too late to really stall aggro and it's easily countered by control. It's not hard to die after ThopterSword is assembled, any combo deck ignores it, so the only thing it really blanks completely is creature-based midrange with no disruption or reach. And doesn't that deck deserve a predator?
Jitte is rough in that the new legend rule made it harder to unban. Essentially every creature deck will want to play it, but BGx will have the most answers to it in the form of Decay and Pulse, and therefore will win most Jitte mirrors and cement the deck even further as the best archetype. Before you could just play your own Jitte and legend rule them, but now since each one has to be removed the whole idea just isn't worth it for what benefit it would give to the format. The same reasoning applies to Jace: it's not too good or unfair or anything, in fact it's weaker in this format than in Legacy, but the fact that matchups will come down to landing Jace AND answering the opponents means it causes too many headaches.
It all depends on what your vision of the format is and would others play said format. When you can have 2 'pro' players write 2 very different articles on what the unbans/bans should be in the format, it just goes to show everyone is looking for something different from the format. (It seems the pros who seem to all enjoy the same format, should be a little closer to the same then random guys/gals on a forum).
A faster, more broken format sounds like fun, until everyone realizes wins are more luck based then skill based. Granted now you can play a T1-T1.5 deck flawlessly and still lose to a random top deck on turn 4. Making the format faster would just increase those odds of losing that way and make your opening hand exponentially more important. How much fun would it be to lose a game or match because you didnt get the right starting hand? How hard would it be to bring newer players into a format like that?
Punishing Fire is the fairest magic you can possibly play. In Legacy Punishing Jund/Maverick are the definition of fair. All it does is kill creatures. It does it well, yes, but it's inefficient and wastes time to keep recurring and firing every turn. Plus a lot of things dodge Fires as it is, and Scavenging Ooze and Deathrite have been printed since the ban and prey on that card naturally. So why not let essentially fair decks have an engine that isn't a planes walker?
By what definition is GR Tron a "fair deck"?
Because that deck would instantly jam 4x Punishing Fire.
I don't understand why anyone thinks DRS will get banned when it has done nothing in the past 6 months to deserve it. I think 2-3 unbans will be safer. Unban Nacatl, BB and GGT.
As far as things like Chrome Mox(i wish) and Jitte go there is about .001% chance. They banned seething song out of nowhere... there is no way mox is coming back. And Jitte is just too much help for BGx and makes that deck even better.
I personally feel like it was the banning of BBE that opened up the BG/X shell. Before there was very little if ANY reason to not run red. Now we've seen junk, jund, Rock variations of the same shell. Even if it is annoying that the shell is so prominant, at least it's a little varied.
He has a point on Wild Nacatl though. A 3/3 on turn 2 is hardly broken in a format with turn 3 Karns and turn 4 infinite pestermites
Wild Nacatl is a 3/3 on turn 2 much, much more often than someone will be able to get the turn 3 Karn, though.
Also, has everyone read a different article than me? People keep proclaiming "he thinks Chrome Mox should be unbanned!" when he... never says that. The closest he comes to saying that would be "I think the format could probably handle Mox in it." Which is a pretty different statement than him saying he wants it unbanned or it should be unbanned.
Heck, I don't think I've seen anyone make a real argument against the claim that it could probably handle Chrome Mox. All anyone does is repeat "Turn 4 rule, turn 4 rule!" which, while of relevance to whether it will remain banned or not (if Wizards continues to insist on that rule), is not actually offering a counterargument.
I would happily trade Deathrite Shaman getting a ban to bring back Bloodbraid Elf. In my opinion it was the wrong way round to ban them in the first place. Suppose they couldn't ban Shaman considering it had just been printed in RTR. Same probably still applies now.
The other problem is, if you unban BBE, there's no reason to run anything other Jund. Granted, right now, Junk isn't as good as Jund, but it goes from "Not as good as" to "Why would you ever run this?"
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no deathrite shaman must go, he is too dominate and too multi functional for a turn 1 drop.
turn one creatures can be strong in the sense of a goblin guide but deathrite is too strong and burns turn 1 plays of many other architypes causing a warpped format, since you can no long effectively play those decks.
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Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
--------------------------------------------------- Vintage will rise again!Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
What you said about synergy is EXACTLY RIGHT. I play several synergy based decks that are great when you draw the right cards, but can flounder horribly if you don't. Hell, even mana screw is a major issue for most decks. Modern very badly needs more library manipulation in every color - I don't care if it's a blue thing, every color should be able to make good decks. We need more cantrips and more scry, and maybe even a few more tutors (not as good as pod, though). Or else every deck will simply be 'good stuff'.
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
I don't understand. The only decks that could really be considered good stuff are Jund and possibly UWR. The other 80% of modern is things like Affinity, Tron, Melira Pod, Twin, Merfolk, Melira Pod, Kiki Pod, Storm, Delver, Scapeshift, Burn.
If mana screw is difficult for you in modern, you are either being too greedy or you need to re evaluate how you made it. Modern has the greediest man bases by far, to the point where decks can play both cryptic command and lightning helix and hit everything consistently
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
Okay random person, obviously you know way more about Magic writing than Conley to make such bold and poor statements.
DRS really pushes the speed envelope for combo doesn't it? Oh wait, it does the opposite, its like the Brainstorm of Modern. Obviously powerful, but more pillar than broken.
From what I've read here, wouldn't Jitte kill aggro? And isn't the format already mostly midrange? It seems Conley Woods really doesn't know what's going on.
Fair enough. But I didn't say now. Is it unreasonable to think that SFM could come off in the future after cards like Jace and Green Sun's Zenith are viewed as safe in the format?
Isn't it odd then that Jund rips apart creature based combo decks like Splinter Twin? And if combo decks could beat Jund, wouldn't the meta have changed to fight Jund before it was banned? Also, with BGx decks being a huge part of the format right now it isn't safe.
Without Batterskull or Jitte, the worst thing that it can do is get a sword. That means that you are paying 2 mana for a Squire+Steelshaper's Gift and then giving the sword a 1 mana discount and making it uncounterable. The sword can't be equipped to anything until turn 4. How is that in any way broken?
Actually, this is a good point. Look at the decks that Chrome Mox could be used in.
In Griselbrand Reanimator it might replace Simian Spirit Guide, but would that make it any faster? The deck doesn't have enough room to run both Mox and Guide.
In Storm it would allow turn 1 Electromancer/Ascension. This is what I think the biggest problem would be.
In Ad Nauseam, it would see play, but the deck still couldn't combo before turn 4.
In Splinter Twin, it might not see play. What are the chances that you would have Chrome Mox, Splinter Twin, and Exarch/Pestermite in your top 10 cards (of course, if Preordain and Ponder were unbanned, this could be a problem).
Tezzerator and WR Lockdown would both get large boosts from this.
So the questions are, would it make Storm too fast and would it make Twin too fast if Ponder and Preordain were unbanned with it.
Jund doesn't play Life from the Loam. Also, I wouldn't define Goyf, Deathrite Shaman, and Scavenging Ooze as having synergy. It is impressive that they even work together in the same deck.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
When I say synergy, I mean cards that work together in an a unique way. Burn, for example, is not synergistic, the cards don't interact at all with each other. Storm, Affinity, and Merfolk are all built on one mechanic. Pod is synergistic (when actually using pod), but given it's a very powerful library manipulation tool it's not surprising. Delver itself is synergistic, though the rest of the deck you might put Delver in may or may not be.
I shouldn't have implied that all tier one decks are good stuff, but I do believe that a lot of tier two decks are held back because they lack consistency. Some more consistency tools in every color would be good for Modern, I think, although done in such a way that it doesn't benefit combo (Twin, especially, doesn't need help) I also think mana screw/flood is an issue. Although, I play online a lot, and most online players think that way.
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
Yes. and he says it will open up more midrange, somthing there is already plenty of.
Consistency makes deck playable. The decks you mention manage to be consistent by playing a very narrow range of similar cards. They get by without having consistency because the cards don't rely on each other. Sure, they may help each other, but the player doesn't need specific cards to win, any combination of 5 or 6 merfolk will probably be enough to win the game. Likewise, 7 or 8 burn cards will probably win you the game, which cards you draw doesn't matter that much.
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
Troll, get out. We're not here to talk about fun or boring or consistency or variety. We are talking about a COMPETITIVE format, not here to talk about EDH or some other ****ty format. You don't like consistency? Then go back to your kitchen table and stay the **** away from our forums.
Infraction for flaming
-ktkenshinx-
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Honestly I stand by the opinion that most of the banlist can come off. The fact that this glass-cannon Griselbrand deck can't even make tier 1 despite being explosive as all hell means that the format can adapt for fast, fragile combo. So why are the dredge pieces and Chrome Mox banned? No combo deck with those pieces would be any faster or more consistent than the stupid griselbrand deck, especially since Chrome Mox by definition leads to inconsistency, because not all Chrome Mox hands are keepable. Play with the card before you pull out your pitchforks. It's fine.
The GSZ/Nacatl bans were supposed to "diversify aggro archetypes." Aggro is basically nonexistent outside of affinity. So why not throw G/x a bone and make a viable Zoo deck that people actually have to worry about? The format has changed a ton, and now there are actual decks that can run Wrath effects maindeck to punish Zoo, where before that wasn't the case, since control was killed with the initial banlist and took forever to really start to emerge.
Punishing Fire is the fairest magic you can possibly play. In Legacy Punishing Jund/Maverick are the definition of fair. All it does is kill creatures. It does it well, yes, but it's inefficient and wastes time to keep recurring and firing every turn. Plus a lot of things dodge Fires as it is, and Scavenging Ooze and Deathrite have been printed since the ban and prey on that card naturally. So why not let essentially fair decks have an engine that isn't a planeswalker? Sword of the Meek is an engine too: it's not a combo, it doesn't win the game when assembled, it merely lets you efficiently turn open mana into resources. It comes on too late to really stall aggro and it's easily countered by control. It's not hard to die after ThopterSword is assembled, any combo deck ignores it, so the only thing it really blanks completely is creature-based midrange with no disruption or reach. And doesn't that deck deserve a predator?
Jitte is rough in that the new legend rule made it harder to unban. Essentially every creature deck will want to play it, but BGx will have the most answers to it in the form of Decay and Pulse, and therefore will win most Jitte mirrors and cement the deck even further as the best archetype. Before you could just play your own Jitte and legend rule them, but now since each one has to be removed the whole idea just isn't worth it for what benefit it would give to the format. The same reasoning applies to Jace: it's not too good or unfair or anything, in fact it's weaker in this format than in Legacy, but the fact that matchups will come down to landing Jace AND answering the opponents means it causes too many headaches.
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
Fair or unfair, safe or not, the problem is none of those cards help aggro or control, aside from Nacatl. we don't need MORE cards that help combo and midrange, when the format is almost literally Combo vs Midrange.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Let me say this, you Unban Sun's and I will have a field day. The card is great, I love it in my Elf deck and I think it's a wonderful tutor. I also think it's bonkers and should stay right where it is.
As for Punishing fire, yep, that's right, make the decks running Ooze ever better while making life a living hell for everyone else. Good plan. Let's do it
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
It all depends on what your vision of the format is and would others play said format. When you can have 2 'pro' players write 2 very different articles on what the unbans/bans should be in the format, it just goes to show everyone is looking for something different from the format. (It seems the pros who seem to all enjoy the same format, should be a little closer to the same then random guys/gals on a forum).
A faster, more broken format sounds like fun, until everyone realizes wins are more luck based then skill based. Granted now you can play a T1-T1.5 deck flawlessly and still lose to a random top deck on turn 4. Making the format faster would just increase those odds of losing that way and make your opening hand exponentially more important. How much fun would it be to lose a game or match because you didnt get the right starting hand? How hard would it be to bring newer players into a format like that?
By what definition is GR Tron a "fair deck"?
Because that deck would instantly jam 4x Punishing Fire.
As far as things like Chrome Mox(i wish) and Jitte go there is about .001% chance. They banned seething song out of nowhere... there is no way mox is coming back. And Jitte is just too much help for BGx and makes that deck even better.
I'd rather see Confidant go before Deathrite
Wild Nacatl is a 3/3 on turn 2 much, much more often than someone will be able to get the turn 3 Karn, though.
Also, has everyone read a different article than me? People keep proclaiming "he thinks Chrome Mox should be unbanned!" when he... never says that. The closest he comes to saying that would be "I think the format could probably handle Mox in it." Which is a pretty different statement than him saying he wants it unbanned or it should be unbanned.
Heck, I don't think I've seen anyone make a real argument against the claim that it could probably handle Chrome Mox. All anyone does is repeat "Turn 4 rule, turn 4 rule!" which, while of relevance to whether it will remain banned or not (if Wizards continues to insist on that rule), is not actually offering a counterargument.
The other problem is, if you unban BBE, there's no reason to run anything other Jund. Granted, right now, Junk isn't as good as Jund, but it goes from "Not as good as" to "Why would you ever run this?"
turn one creatures can be strong in the sense of a goblin guide but deathrite is too strong and burns turn 1 plays of many other architypes causing a warpped format, since you can no long effectively play those decks.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
I call for predictions!
Jan 27th Ban & Restricted list Announcement
Modern
Unbanned: Wild Nacatl, Bitterblossom, Golgari Grave-Troll
Banned: Emrakul/Goryo's Vengeance (I am 50/50 on this one, but I believe Wizards is keeping a close eye here.)
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
No changes.