For a card to be playable in Modern, it needs to a) be better than an existing card that does a similar thing and/or b) provide a unique effect that doesn't currently exist in the format.
Nykthos definitely fits that bill without a doubt. But I'm not sure about the rest. The closest fit is Commune with the Gods which provides 2 CMC dig for a pairing of permanents that no other card offers. Other than that, however, there isn't much in the set yet for our format.
Dont sleep on Thassa. She provides blue with a finisher, something blue is currently lacking in modern.
Chained to Rocks is unplayable, if you have white mana and a mountain, you should be running Path to Exile and Lightning Bolt instead.
I understand what you mean but if you are playing a WR control shell you may not want to mana ramp your opponent, and Chained would be a viable alternative. Now I agree there isnt much room for white based control with all the blue running around these days but still...
From my testing of Thassa in Merfolk, I don't think she's strong enough without Devotion. Her Scry 1 was useless more than half the turns she was out, and I lost nearly all the games where she never connected (my only wins so far in that situation were one game where she made my stragglers unblockable and a few games against UWR Control--she sucked against RG Tron).
Those cards are efficient beaters themselves. Helion is not powerful enough to fit in that deck when he isnt active as a creature, so he probably isn't good enough for it. The only thing I see going for him is some form of enchantress because he can make enchantment creatures which could be very powerful. Still even then its fringe and might not be powerful enough.
I repeat the gods will only be worth playing if they are good enough in enchantment form. Currently the only one that is close is Thassa, she may not be good in merfolk, but she is probably powerful enough in the right build.
First of all, long-time lurker, first-time poster.
Second, I'm not seeing how Reverent Hunter is "unplayable." Fringe, sure, but I can see him being Goyf 5-8 in Gruul Aggro.
Consider a good-but-not-nutty one-mulligan opener of 2 lands, E1, BTE, some 1G dude, and Reverent Hunter.
On the play:
T1: E1
T2: draw, attack, BTE + guy
T3: draw. you probably drew a land on either T2 or this turn. Set Rev Hunter as a 5/5 or 6/6, then attack. (You'd set him first in case of combat attrition.)
Obviously this won't happen every game, and I concede he's an awful play into an empty board. But with Boar, E1, Geist, Rancor, Finks, BTE, and Goyf as options in our deck, it seems pretty easy to make him a big ol' guy who stretches the enemy removal pretty thin. Plus he gets around Spell Snare without wrecking our curve. I think he's a good boost for 2-color Zoo, and it's possible there will be at least 1 other Modern-playable devotion guy in RG.
Go ahead, tear my theory apart
Dumb beaters are dumb beaters, they need to be hard to remove or exceptionally efficient to be worth playing if its just a beater. It might see play, but you yourself gave a lot of reasons already why it isnt competitive.
You guys are too narrow minded - it seems to me that most people look at decks that are listed here as tier 1 or established or whatever and then judge any cards powerlevel on whether or not any of those decks would replace one of their staples with it.
That is BS. The only thing that matters is the quality of the card itself and then building a deck with it and creating a home for it but it seems like the Magic community has dumbed down so hard that everyone is only copying deck lists found somewhere else or played in big tournaments.
It is noticeable at every FNM whether it is modern or standard - rarely you will see decks that are creative homebrews. Personally I play only such decks and usually still can get in the prices ranges.
Playable cards are not defined by whether your established archetypes would use them.
No, but it helps a lot. The powerful decks are powerful because there has been a lot of work put into them by the community. They have raw power as well as lots of experience fine tuning and making the decks better. When lots of people are working on a deck, it helps to perfect and fine tune it.
Therefore cards become playable easiest if they fit decks already. It's just the way it works.
Also there is LOADS of creativity in modern. Your area may not be, but online and just in general there are people still experimenting with cool tech. Powerful cards eventually get played, nothing that is too powerful doesn't get discovered eventually.
Just the other day one of the coolest decks I have ever seen was made aware to me. People are always tinkering. Have no faith? Check out MONO WHITE CHARBECHLER OMG ITS SOO COOL http://www.twitch.tv/pomegrant/b/453524539
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Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Nykthos, Thassa, Daxos, Commune with the Gods, Gods Willing, and Read the Bones are currently what I see as having any potential(Ignoring reprints). "Potential" being the key word. Which is to say maybe might possibly see some play somewhere.
I like the set, I think it has a lot of flavorful cards. But it doesn't seem a very powerful set. Even though a lot is unrevealed, it would make a very big disparity if we started getting strong cards now. As it would likely convolute standard and limited.
Nykthos, Thassa, Daxos, Commune with the Gods, Gods Willing, and Read the Bones are currently what I see as having any potential(Ignoring reprints). "Potential" being the key word. Which is to say maybe might possibly see some play somewhere.
I like the set, I think it has a lot of flavorful cards. But it doesn't seem a very powerful set. Even though a lot is unrevealed, it would make a very big disparity if we started getting strong cards now. As it would likely convolute standard and limited.
What do you think about Polukranos, World Eater? From my testing, it hasn't been quite as big a blowout as Olivia Voldaren has been, but always dodging Bolt is nice, usually being bigger than Goyf is nice, and being mono-green is awesome for a removal critter.
When Polukranos gets going, it tends to be a blowout against fair decks, and I've even won some games where it got removed in response to Monstrosity (I've had the most testing with him in Melira Pod, so there was a game where I Scavenged him onto Birds of Paradise with Varolz, the Scar-Striped, and another game where Polukranos got double Bolted and opened the way to me winning with regular beats).
...It's a bit sad that Polukranos is my only maindeck instant-speed removal in my current Melira Pod build (besides Chord of Calling into removal dude--I don't maindeck Abrupt Decay).
(I'm still hoping that Erebos is any good, but if Wizards is any indication, they'll just make him as disappointing as the other Gods...
...Yeah, and I just tested Heliod in Death and Taxes, and yeah, he sucks. He was rarely a 5/6 against Jund, and making one token per turn isn't enough to hold off the tide of big green nasties. I'd rather switch back to Hero of Bladehold.)
Nykthos, Thassa, Daxos, Commune with the Gods, Gods Willing, and Read the Bones are currently what I see as having any potential(Ignoring reprints). "Potential" being the key word. Which is to say maybe might possibly see some play somewhere.
I like the set, I think it has a lot of flavorful cards. But it doesn't seem a very powerful set. Even though a lot is unrevealed, it would make a very big disparity if we started getting strong cards now. As it would likely convolute standard and limited.
Too bad Read the Bones is a sorcery. Its also too bad that Daxos has to contend with Traft at his mana cost.
What do you think about Polukranos, World Eater? From my testing, it hasn't been quite as big a blowout as Olivia Voldaren has been, but always dodging Bolt is nice, usually being bigger than Goyf is nice, and being mono-green is awesome for a removal critter.
When Polukranos gets going, it tends to be a blowout against fair decks, and I've even won some games where it got removed in response to Monstrosity (I've had the most testing with him in Melira Pod, so there was a game where I Scavenged him onto Birds of Paradise with Varolz, the Scar-Striped, and another game where Polukranos got double Bolted and opened the way to me winning with regular beats).
I'm not that impressed. As a general rule unless a creature makes an entrance(ETB effect), 4cmc is rough. Especially in a fair deck, being such a critical time to pressure combo/etc.
Not sure what you mean by "gets going" as it really only goes once.(That phrase normally used to describe snowball cards/strats like countryside crusher/etc.) And its monstrosity is extremely costly for what it does.
The fact that his monstrosity is soooo costly, it can be removed in response, and it has no immediate impact on the board for its cost are too many downsides to ignore. I can't see the future, I may be wrong. But I see no potential here in Modern.
Too bad Read the Bones is a sorcery. Its also too bad that Daxos has to contend with Traft at his mana cost.
Both things to consider. But not overly crippling problems. They may(potential was the keyword) be playable despite them. Maybe not. But they are cards to keep an eye on.
I'm not that impressed. As a general rule unless a creature makes an entrance(ETB effect), 4cmc is rough. Especially in a fair deck, being such a critical time to pressure combo/etc.
Not sure what you mean by "gets going" as it really only goes once.(That phrase normally used to describe snowball cards/strats like countryside crusher/etc.) And its monstrosity is extremely costly for what it does.
The fact that his monstrosity is soooo costly, it can be removed in response, and it has no immediate impact on the board for its cost are too many downsides to ignore. I can't see the future, I may be wrong. But I see no potential here in Modern.
Yes, Polukranos only gets going once, but that once tends to be pretty big. It grows and kills guys at once--but usually the turn after it ETB (sort of like Olivia Voldaren). I've paid 4G for Monstrosity the most often (and that's only 1 mana more than sticking Polukranos), so I don't think Polukranos's Monstrosity is very costly. Heck, Polukranos can kill an X/1 twice for 4GG, so it can still kill something in response to removal on the 1st Monstrosity.
Its Monstrosity not doing anything if it dies in response is fairly crippling, true. However, Polukranos doesn't die to Bolt or Abrupt Decay and plays dare with Dismember, so surprisingly little can hit it in response to Monstrosity on your turn.
If all else fails, Polukranos is a 4-cmc 5/5. Probably better than Olivia against combo.
Purphoros, God of the Forge3R Legendary Enchantment Creature - God
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to red is less than five, Purphoros isn't a creature.
Whenever another creature enters the battlefield under your control, Purphoros deals 2 damage to each opponent. 2R: Each creature you control gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
6/5
That ability is extremely strong. It's strong with Young Pyromancer, it's strong with Empty the Warrens, it's strong with regular token generation, it's strong with the new crusader, and it's just a plain old unique ability. It's price at 4 is reasonable given the effect, and it's really difficult to get rid of the God once he lands. There are just a ton of ways to abuse this card and I am excited for all of them.
Also, I don't think there's any possibility that Twin Pod can actually hit Purphoros's Devotion threshold.
On the other hand, that activated ability is a great mana sink for Twin Pod.
But Purphoros basically never being a creature in Twin Pod (except when not on the battlefield) greatly worries me...it makes me want to stick with Polukranos there...
Eh, Purph's ok... but a bit too top-curve to be really relevant as I see it.
He makes dudes relevant... in the mid-late stretch, when, as I see it, you'd rather want it early on when you're building up your dude force.
Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is I'd rather cheese Extort off of Blind Obedience, get the death of a thousand lashes thing going on rather than gunking up a 4drop slot.
But, if it does something for you in T-Pod, more power to you.
EDIT:
Actually, I think Big P might make Standard a lot of fun for a while. Actually, Standard in general's looking a bit interesting with Theros in the picture.
Yes, Polukranos only gets going once, but that once tends to be pretty big. It grows and kills guys at once--but usually the turn after it ETB (sort of like Olivia Voldaren). I've paid 4G for Monstrosity the most often (and that's only 1 mana more than sticking Polukranos), so I don't think Polukranos's Monstrosity is very costly. Heck, Polukranos can kill an X/1 twice for 4GG, so it can still kill something in response to removal on the 1st Monstrosity.
Its Monstrosity not doing anything if it dies in response is fairly crippling, true. However, Polukranos doesn't die to Bolt or Abrupt Decay and plays dare with Dismember, so surprisingly little can hit it in response to Monstrosity on your turn.
If all else fails, Polukranos is a 4-cmc 5/5. Probably better than Olivia against combo.
Well personally, I've never been a very big fan of Olivia either. But what I concede with her is that at least she has evasion in the form of flying. And of course her removal can be used repeatedly. And she's black, so that stops a lot more things than 4+ toughness would.
As for it being dealt with in response, path is still popular. Contemporary terror-variants hit it, being non-black. Terminate if its still seeing play...There's a lot. It's a scant few it dodges, in the grand scheme of things. Bolt is a biggie, but don't fall into the trap that was Woolly Thoctar. >3 toughness does not an invincible creature make.
Maybe I'm being too dismissive. Maybe it will find a home. But It's not the kind of card I'd ever personally play. It's in an unwanted middle zone where it's costly enough with no immediate impact that I don't want to play it in a normal deck, but it's not gamechanging enough as something like Griselbrand where I don't want to tailor a deck around it.
Well personally, I've never been a very big fan of Olivia either. But what I concede with her is that at least she has evasion in the form of flying. And of course her removal can be used repeatedly. And she's black, so that stops a lot more things than 4+ toughness would.
As for it being dealt with in response, path is still popular. Contemporary terror-variants hit it, being non-black. Terminate if its still seeing play...There's a lot. It's a scant few it dodges, in the grand scheme of things. Bolt is a biggie, but don't fall into the trap that was Woolly Thoctar. >3 toughness does not an invincible creature make.
Maybe I'm being too dismissive. Maybe it will find a home. But It's not the kind of card I'd ever personally play. It's in an unwanted middle zone where it's costly enough with no immediate impact that I don't want to play it in a normal deck, but it's not gamechanging enough as something like Griselbrand where I don't want to tailor a deck around it.
Polukranos's lack of evasion has lost me quite a few games against Pod, true. Olivia is probably the better card as long as you can consistently drag the game out to Turn 6+ and you're in BR.
But that's the thing. Not everyone is in BR. I predict that Polukranos will be popular in green, non-Jund decks. Wilt-Leaf Liege is similarly costly with not much immediate impact, and the lord pump is overrated against the current popular combo decks (Exarchs, Cryptic Command, Primeval Titan frying butts off). Yet GW Hatebears plays it. Hero of Bladehold has a worse body, a similar cost, and a similar lack of immediate impact. Yet Death and Taxes plays it. I'd rather play Polukranos over Liege or Hero because at least I have a ghost of a chance of disrupting combo the next turn (Polukranos can off Pestermite, Goblin Electromancer, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Melira, Sylvok Outcast, and more, and it ignores Spellskite for a mere 2 more).
I predict that Polukranos will see play in Pod, GW Hatebears, Big Zoo, maybe Junk, and maybe BG Midrange.
But that's the thing. Not everyone is in BR. I predict that Polukranos will be popular in green, non-Jund decks. Wilt-Leaf Liege is similarly costly with not much immediate impact, and the lord pump is overrated against the current popular combo decks (Exarchs, Cryptic Command, Primeval Titan frying butts off). Yet GW Hatebears plays it. Hero of Bladehold has a worse body, a similar cost, and a similar lack of immediate impact. Yet Death and Taxes plays it. I'd rather play Polukranos over Liege or Hero because at least I have a ghost of a chance of disrupting combo the next turn (Polukranos can off Pestermite, Goblin Electromancer, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Melira, Sylvok Outcast, and more, and it ignores Spellskite for a mere 2 more).
Liege not only is an often free card(dismissing the claim that it's 'similarly costed'), but it has a very large impact on the game on the turn it comes in, as a massive pump to your field. Comparing these two seems very flawed.
As for Bladehold, it's in D+T. A deck designed to slow things down considerably, to tempo well, and with redundant ability to protect her. And when she does land, the payoff is far far grander. Being a massive generation engine, a field boost, and at the mere cost of nothing past the initial 4(my biggest problem with Polu).
The gameplans in both of these cases are very different. They aren't trying to disrupt combo, they are trying to race it. If you want to disrupt combo theres a hundred better cards to do it. By your reasoning, you'd prefer Orcish Artillery over Kitchen Finks as it has a better chance of disrupting combo. The point being, that this criteria is a very narrow-minded and flawed thinking.
Like I said, 4cmc is tough. Meaning you need a deck specifically designed to support it(like D+T), or it needs to have an instant effect. And most that are played do not require (much) additional mana after the fact to be useful like Pulo does. Because of how he's designed, he's likely to come out turn 4, making your turn moot. And then if you sink mana into it turn 5 to do what you want it to(grow/kill), it can easily be pathed/bounced(cryptic)/dismembered/etc in response. Which is a massive setback. With a minimal upside(a 9-mana vanilla 7/7 with a shock attached).
I just don't see the payoff being worth the risks. Being worth the time. Being worth the slots. With Modern having such good cards to work with. But if you're having success in testing, more power to you. I just know it's a common theme for people to see new sets through industrial strength rose-tinted glasses, looking for some new tech where none exists. And from where I'm sitting, it doesn't look promising.
Master of Waves3U Creature - Merfolk Wizard
Protection from red
Elemental creatures you control get +1/+1.
When Master of Waves enters the battlefield, put a number of 1/0 blue Elemental creature tokens onto the battlefield equal to your devotion to blue.
2/1
This guy has a lot going for him, even with his casting cost. 4 mana cards need to pull a lot of weight in Modern, but the Master fits that bill. This card needs to be answered the turn it hits or the opponent is probably going to lose. That's especially true because Master will, on average, drop probably five 2/1 tokens when he hits. So yeah, he's on the pricier side, but for 4 mana he's winning the game on the next turn, so I'm fine with that price tag.
The real killer on this card is the pro red. That means no Bolt, no Helix, no Electrolyze, no Galvanic Blast, and no Pyroclasm. UWR can hit him with Wrath, Verdict, and Path. Other decks really have Path and that's about it. Dismember hits him too, but that's an uncommon one. The real killer is the 4 CMC here, which puts him out of Decay range. The vast majority of decks are going to have no way of dealing with this card when he hits, and that's a huge plus for Merfolk.
Overall, this is a very exciting creature that is definitely going to add to Merfolk. He's a great top of the curve threat for that deck. Some people might allege that he is win-more, but he can rapidly turn games around when dropped on turn 4 even if the Merfolk player has subpar board position. With just 2 Merfolk, Master is probably making 4 Elementals and threatening 10+ damage on the next turn. That's a lot of presence, a lot of finishing power, and a generally awesome tool for Merfolk.
Master of Waves3U Creature - Merfolk Wizard
Protection from red
Elemental creatures you control get +1/+1.
When Master of Waves enters the battlefield, put a number of 1/0 blue Elemental creature tokens onto the battlefield equal to your devotion to blue.
2/1
This guy has a lot going for him, even with his casting cost. 4 mana cards need to pull a lot of weight in Modern, but the Master fits that bill. This card needs to be answered the turn it hits or the opponent is probably going to lose. That's especially true because Master will, on average, drop probably five 2/1 tokens when he hits. So yeah, he's on the pricier side, but for 4 mana he's winning the game on the next turn, so I'm fine with that price tag.
The real killer on this card is the pro red. That means no Bolt, no Helix, no Electrolyze, no Galvanic Blast, and no Pyroclasm. UWR can hit him with Wrath, Verdict, and Path. Other decks really have Path and that's about it. Dismember hits him too, but that's an uncommon one. The real killer is the 4 CMC here, which puts him out of Decay range. The vast majority of decks are going to have no way of dealing with this card when he hits, and that's a huge plus for Merfolk.
Overall, this is a very exciting creature that is definitely going to add to Merfolk. He's a great top of the curve threat for that deck. Some people might allege that he is win-more, but he can rapidly turn games around when dropped on turn 4 even if the Merfolk player has subpar board position. With just 2 Merfolk, Master is probably making 4 Elementals and threatening 10+ damage on the next turn. That's a lot of presence, a lot of finishing power, and a generally awesome tool for Merfolk.
I see 2 main problems with the logic. The first, obviously being that since the elementals are elementals, they aren't merfolk. So if the Master dies, which isn't hard with 1 toughness(even if he is immune to bolt), they all die. They are weak, evasionless, vulnerable to sweeps(if all you have is red, you probably carry pyroclasm), and they are wholly dependent on a weakling. The second problem is the cost of 4. And not necessarily in general, but in terms of merfolk. Merfolk last I checked had a relatively low land count, relying on their minor costs and aether vials to get stuff out without running through their steam too fast and going into topdeck mode. This means that hitting the 4th mana on turn 4 isn't always going to happen. And when it doesn't youre left with a dead card in a deck that can't afford the lost pressure of dead cards.
I like this card. I could see it going places. But I'm not sure Merfolk is the right home for it.
I see 2 main problems with the logic. The first, obviously being that since the elementals are elementals, they aren't merfolk. So if the Master dies, which isn't hard with 1 toughness(even if he is immune to bolt), they all die. They are weak, evasionless, vulnerable to sweeps(if all you have is red, you probably carry pyroclasm), and they are wholly dependent on a weakling. The second problem is the cost of 4. And not necessarily in general, but in terms of merfolk. Merfolk last I checked had a relatively low land count, relying on their minor costs and aether vials to get stuff out without running through their steam too fast and going into topdeck mode. This means that hitting the 4th mana on turn 4 isn't always going to happen. And when it doesn't youre left with a dead card in a deck that can't afford the lost pressure of dead cards.
I like this card. I could see it going places. But I'm not sure Merfolk is the right home for it.
That is good and all but how else am I supposed to play my Force of Savagerys?
In all seriousness, I could see RUG playing it possibly. Probably more the tempo version then the control version so that there can be a higher devotion count.
Master of Waves3U Creature - Merfolk Wizard
Protection from red
Elemental creatures you control get +1/+1.
When Master of Waves enters the battlefield, put a number of 1/0 blue Elemental creature tokens onto the battlefield equal to your devotion to blue.
2/1
This guy has a lot going for him, even with his casting cost. 4 mana cards need to pull a lot of weight in Modern, but the Master fits that bill. This card needs to be answered the turn it hits or the opponent is probably going to lose. That's especially true because Master will, on average, drop probably five 2/1 tokens when he hits. So yeah, he's on the pricier side, but for 4 mana he's winning the game on the next turn, so I'm fine with that price tag.
The real killer on this card is the pro red. That means no Bolt, no Helix, no Electrolyze, no Galvanic Blast, and no Pyroclasm. UWR can hit him with Wrath, Verdict, and Path. Other decks really have Path and that's about it. Dismember hits him too, but that's an uncommon one. The real killer is the 4 CMC here, which puts him out of Decay range. The vast majority of decks are going to have no way of dealing with this card when he hits, and that's a huge plus for Merfolk.
Overall, this is a very exciting creature that is definitely going to add to Merfolk. He's a great top of the curve threat for that deck. Some people might allege that he is win-more, but he can rapidly turn games around when dropped on turn 4 even if the Merfolk player has subpar board position. With just 2 Merfolk, Master is probably making 4 Elementals and threatening 10+ damage on the next turn. That's a lot of presence, a lot of finishing power, and a generally awesome tool for Merfolk.
Don't see him getting played in Fish as it currently is, he quite simply doesn't work with the deck. Costing 4 is a huge problem when your entire deck costs 2 mana (or less) except for 3-4 reejereys.
He might be part of a new incarnation of Fish but he doesn't work in the current version.
I really dont see anything spoiled so far impacting the format, there is to much competition with all of the design mistakes of the decade. At best we can hope for some good utility spell, or removal... I am praying for a good defensive white legend weapon, but ready to be disappointed. Set looks cool for limited though aka the real magic format.
I really dont see anything spoiled so far impacting the format, there is to much competition with all of the design mistakes of the decade. At best we can hope for some good utility spell, or removal... I am praying for a good defensive white legend weapon, but ready to be disappointed. Set looks cool for limited though aka the real magic format.
I think you and I are both ready to be disappointed. I am waiting for a red direct damage = devotion card that I can bounce.
I think theros is limited to... limited and standard really. There might be a couple cards in the block that help other formats, but nothing that will be defining. Innistrad and RTR blocks gave modern and legacy too many cards, theros will be limited
I see 2 main problems with the logic. The first, obviously being that since the elementals are elementals, they aren't merfolk. So if the Master dies, which isn't hard with 1 toughness(even if he is immune to bolt), they all die. They are weak, evasionless, vulnerable to sweeps(if all you have is red, you probably carry pyroclasm), and they are wholly dependent on a weakling.
Instead of thinking about Master's 1 toughness in a vacuum, we need to think about his 1 toughness and pro red in the context of Modern. The only things that hit this card are Path, Wrath, and Verdict. Everything else either sees minimal play (e.g. Dismember) or completely misses (e.g. Abrupt Decay and all the red removal). So when this guy gets dropped on turn 4, your opponent needs to Path/Wrath or lose the next turn. If he had Wrath, he was going to use it anyway to sweep out your other dudes, so Master just forces his play with a one card investment. If he had Path, any other lord was going to get exiled, so it might as well be the answer-or-lose card.
Even if he gets blocked and killed, he is still sending probably 11 power across the board (3 from himself, Lord included, and 8 from his elementals). That's either flat out game over on the spot, or just unrecoverable for most decks.
The second problem is the cost of 4. And not necessarily in general, but in terms of merfolk. Merfolk last I checked had a relatively low land count, relying on their minor costs and aether vials to get stuff out without running through their steam too fast and going into topdeck mode. This means that hitting the 4th mana on turn 4 isn't always going to happen. And when it doesn't youre left with a dead card in a deck that can't afford the lost pressure of dead cards.
Here's the thing: Merfolk, as it currently exists, is not a good deck. It has a small MTGO presence, virtually no paper appearances, and isn't really distinguishing itself from any other aggro deck in the format. Master gives it a top of the curve presence that the deck currently lacks. You land a Master and, in most cases, the opponent has one turn to answer it. So if that means that Merfolk ups its land count from 20 to 23, then that's probably what needs to happen. I am more than willing to modify the current version of Merfolk to try and include something as bomby as Master, just because the current version of Merfolk is clearly missing something.
Instead of thinking about Master's 1 toughness in a vacuum, we need to think about his 1 toughness and pro red in the context of Modern. The only things that hit this card are Path, Wrath, and Verdict. Everything else either sees minimal play (e.g. Dismember) or completely misses (e.g. Abrupt Decay and all the red removal). So when this guy gets dropped on turn 4, your opponent needs to Path/Wrath or lose the next turn. If he had Wrath, he was going to use it anyway to sweep out your other dudes, so Master just forces his play with a one card investment. If he had Path, any other lord was going to get exiled, so it might as well be the answer-or-lose card.
Even if he gets blocked and killed, he is still sending probably 11 power across the board (3 from himself, Lord included, and 8 from his elementals). That's either flat out game over on the spot, or just unrecoverable for most decks.
I'm not thinking about a vacuum, I'm thinking about current Modern. Which I'd venture you're out of touch with if you think Dismember sees 'minimal play.' Out of the top 10 most played spells in modern, 4 are removal, 2 of which hit and kill him(one of those is dismember, seeing play in over 25% of the field). The others being bolt(the obvious advantage), and pyroclasm, which neutralizes him anyways. There's also 2 counters in the top 10, which you have no defense against, since youll already be struggling to tapout for 4. But this isn't my main problem, since it'd help him work in other decks...decks that can buff creatures who aren't just merfolk.
Here's the thing: Merfolk, as it currently exists, is not a good deck. It has a small MTGO presence, virtually no paper appearances, and isn't really distinguishing itself from any other aggro deck in the format. Master gives it a top of the curve presence that the deck currently lacks. You land a Master and, in most cases, the opponent has one turn to answer it. So if that means that Merfolk ups its land count from 20 to 23, then that's probably what needs to happen. I am more than willing to modify the current version of Merfolk to try and include something as bomby as Master, just because the current version of Merfolk is clearly missing something.
It's one thing to modify a deck to fit a format. It's another to completely throw away a deck's game plan to try and work in a gimmick. Fish needs to be drawing fish, not land. When you stop being able to reliably draw fish, you stop being able to reliably put on pressure. It's akin to building a burn deck around the philosophy of wanting to drag the game out so it has a better chance to miracle Thunderous Wrath. In doing so you lose the strength of burn, which is ending fast.
But as always, if you want to try it, be my guest.
I'm not thinking about a vacuum, I'm thinking about current Modern. Which I'd venture you're out of touch with if you think Dismember sees 'minimal play.' Out of the top 10 most played spells in modern, 4 are removal, 2 of which hit and kill him(one of those is dismember, seeing play in over 25% of the field). The others being bolt(the obvious advantage), and pyroclasm, which neutralizes him anyways. There's also 2 counters in the top 10, which you have no defense against, since youll already be struggling to tapout for 4. But this isn't my main problem, since it'd help him work in other decks...decks that can buff creatures who aren't just merfolk.
Not sure where you are getting these numbers. Dismember does not see play in 25% of the field. By the most generous estimate, it sees play in 10% of the field with, on average, 2 copies played in a deck. And that's an estimate taken from mtgtop8.com which, as we all know, only uses the nonrepresentative sample of 4-0/3-1 decks from the mothership. It's also a 2 week perspective. The 2 month perspective puts Dismember down to 6%, but I am willing to go up to 10% because of the recent rise of BG Midrange.
Now, when you compare the prevalence of Dismember to the prevalence of Decay or Bolt, it's more than reasonable to say it sees minimal play. Bolt is in more than 1/3 of all decks and often has the full playset. Decay is in about 25% of decks with 2-3 copies on average. Dismember? 10%, 1-2 copies. When it does get included in a deck, it is generally as a singleton or pair in the board, or a pair in the maindeck. Of course, Dismember's prevalence might increase as BG Midrange continues to be a FOTM deck. But even then, it still only uses a few slots, and it still isn't used in most decks in any appreciable quantity.
I agree that if this card did not have pro red, it would not be playable. But pro red on top of the answer-or-die effect is big. It's definitely worth trying. If that means modifying an element of a deck that is currently unsuccessful, then that's fine with me.
I like the merfolk. Saying it "dies" to Zealous Persecution is weak at best. By the time they play one of their 2 copies of this guy, i'm 100% sure they will have a lord or two in play. In fact someone who would side in Zealous Persecution to fight this one guy would seriously be putting themselves at a disadvantage. Sweepers are already a weakness to Fish, so why would you count them against this guy? The majority of removal is bolt, path, and decay. He dodges 2 out of the three and creatures his own remove now or die scenario... Well against fish you don't always have time to find your answers, and when you do sometimes you will have to choose whether to shoot this guy, or the lord that is also threatening to lethal you.
Dont sleep on Thassa. She provides blue with a finisher, something blue is currently lacking in modern.
I understand what you mean but if you are playing a WR control shell you may not want to mana ramp your opponent, and Chained would be a viable alternative. Now I agree there isnt much room for white based control with all the blue running around these days but still...
Those cards are efficient beaters themselves. Helion is not powerful enough to fit in that deck when he isnt active as a creature, so he probably isn't good enough for it. The only thing I see going for him is some form of enchantress because he can make enchantment creatures which could be very powerful. Still even then its fringe and might not be powerful enough.
I repeat the gods will only be worth playing if they are good enough in enchantment form. Currently the only one that is close is Thassa, she may not be good in merfolk, but she is probably powerful enough in the right build.
Dumb beaters are dumb beaters, they need to be hard to remove or exceptionally efficient to be worth playing if its just a beater. It might see play, but you yourself gave a lot of reasons already why it isnt competitive.
Also solid first post
No, but it helps a lot. The powerful decks are powerful because there has been a lot of work put into them by the community. They have raw power as well as lots of experience fine tuning and making the decks better. When lots of people are working on a deck, it helps to perfect and fine tune it.
Therefore cards become playable easiest if they fit decks already. It's just the way it works.
Also there is LOADS of creativity in modern. Your area may not be, but online and just in general there are people still experimenting with cool tech. Powerful cards eventually get played, nothing that is too powerful doesn't get discovered eventually.
Just the other day one of the coolest decks I have ever seen was made aware to me. People are always tinkering. Have no faith? Check out MONO WHITE CHARBECHLER OMG ITS SOO COOL http://www.twitch.tv/pomegrant/b/453524539
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
I like the set, I think it has a lot of flavorful cards. But it doesn't seem a very powerful set. Even though a lot is unrevealed, it would make a very big disparity if we started getting strong cards now. As it would likely convolute standard and limited.
Enchantment deck could use Commune with the Gods to dig for either an aura or a hexproof dude
How about instead of encouraging Bogle, we just, I dunno, work out an Enchantress deck or something?
Seriously, this block might as well be an open invitation to come up with a Modern Enchantress list.
EDIT:
ARE YOU FOR REAL, WIZARDS?
A HEXPROOF MANA-WALL?
JUST
SERIOUSLY
WHY
What do you think about Polukranos, World Eater? From my testing, it hasn't been quite as big a blowout as Olivia Voldaren has been, but always dodging Bolt is nice, usually being bigger than Goyf is nice, and being mono-green is awesome for a removal critter.
When Polukranos gets going, it tends to be a blowout against fair decks, and I've even won some games where it got removed in response to Monstrosity (I've had the most testing with him in Melira Pod, so there was a game where I Scavenged him onto Birds of Paradise with Varolz, the Scar-Striped, and another game where Polukranos got double Bolted and opened the way to me winning with regular beats).
...It's a bit sad that Polukranos is my only maindeck instant-speed removal in my current Melira Pod build (besides Chord of Calling into removal dude--I don't maindeck Abrupt Decay).
(I'm still hoping that Erebos is any good, but if Wizards is any indication, they'll just make him as disappointing as the other Gods...
...Yeah, and I just tested Heliod in Death and Taxes, and yeah, he sucks. He was rarely a 5/6 against Jund, and making one token per turn isn't enough to hold off the tide of big green nasties. I'd rather switch back to Hero of Bladehold.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Will Sylvan Caryatid make a splash in Pod? Finally, a (2-cmc) mana dork they can't just Bolt (or Path to Exile, or Terminate, or Dismember, or Abrupt Decay, or...)! ...Finally, another 2-cmc mana dork that dies to Kitchen Finks.
Too bad Read the Bones is a sorcery. Its also too bad that Daxos has to contend with Traft at his mana cost.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I'm not that impressed. As a general rule unless a creature makes an entrance(ETB effect), 4cmc is rough. Especially in a fair deck, being such a critical time to pressure combo/etc.
Not sure what you mean by "gets going" as it really only goes once.(That phrase normally used to describe snowball cards/strats like countryside crusher/etc.) And its monstrosity is extremely costly for what it does.
The fact that his monstrosity is soooo costly, it can be removed in response, and it has no immediate impact on the board for its cost are too many downsides to ignore. I can't see the future, I may be wrong. But I see no potential here in Modern.
Both things to consider. But not overly crippling problems. They may(potential was the keyword) be playable despite them. Maybe not. But they are cards to keep an eye on.
Yes, Polukranos only gets going once, but that once tends to be pretty big. It grows and kills guys at once--but usually the turn after it ETB (sort of like Olivia Voldaren). I've paid 4G for Monstrosity the most often (and that's only 1 mana more than sticking Polukranos), so I don't think Polukranos's Monstrosity is very costly. Heck, Polukranos can kill an X/1 twice for 4GG, so it can still kill something in response to removal on the 1st Monstrosity.
Its Monstrosity not doing anything if it dies in response is fairly crippling, true. However, Polukranos doesn't die to Bolt or Abrupt Decay and plays dare with Dismember, so surprisingly little can hit it in response to Monstrosity on your turn.
If all else fails, Polukranos is a 4-cmc 5/5. Probably better than Olivia against combo.
Purphoros, God of the Forge 3R
Legendary Enchantment Creature - God
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to red is less than five, Purphoros isn't a creature.
Whenever another creature enters the battlefield under your control, Purphoros deals 2 damage to each opponent.
2R: Each creature you control gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
6/5
That ability is extremely strong. It's strong with Young Pyromancer, it's strong with Empty the Warrens, it's strong with regular token generation, it's strong with the new crusader, and it's just a plain old unique ability. It's price at 4 is reasonable given the effect, and it's really difficult to get rid of the God once he lands. There are just a ton of ways to abuse this card and I am excited for all of them.
...If Twin Pod can pony up Chord of Calling with X = 5.
Also, I don't think there's any possibility that Twin Pod can actually hit Purphoros's Devotion threshold.
On the other hand, that activated ability is a great mana sink for Twin Pod.
But Purphoros basically never being a creature in Twin Pod (except when not on the battlefield) greatly worries me...it makes me want to stick with Polukranos there...
He makes dudes relevant... in the mid-late stretch, when, as I see it, you'd rather want it early on when you're building up your dude force.
Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is I'd rather cheese Extort off of Blind Obedience, get the death of a thousand lashes thing going on rather than gunking up a 4drop slot.
But, if it does something for you in T-Pod, more power to you.
EDIT:
Actually, I think Big P might make Standard a lot of fun for a while. Actually, Standard in general's looking a bit interesting with Theros in the picture.
Well personally, I've never been a very big fan of Olivia either. But what I concede with her is that at least she has evasion in the form of flying. And of course her removal can be used repeatedly. And she's black, so that stops a lot more things than 4+ toughness would.
As for it being dealt with in response, path is still popular. Contemporary terror-variants hit it, being non-black. Terminate if its still seeing play...There's a lot. It's a scant few it dodges, in the grand scheme of things. Bolt is a biggie, but don't fall into the trap that was Woolly Thoctar. >3 toughness does not an invincible creature make.
Maybe I'm being too dismissive. Maybe it will find a home. But It's not the kind of card I'd ever personally play. It's in an unwanted middle zone where it's costly enough with no immediate impact that I don't want to play it in a normal deck, but it's not gamechanging enough as something like Griselbrand where I don't want to tailor a deck around it.
Olivia Voldaren doesn't die to Doom Blade, Shriekmaw, or Victim of Night, but Bolt is the most common removal spell in Modern (and those other removal spells can't crack the top 5 and probably can't crack the top 8), and it's accompanied by its friends Lightning Helix, Firespout, Ajani Vengeant, and Garruk Relentless. I don't like turning Olivia into a 6-drop in fear of Bolt, and the resulting tempo loss (or losing Olivia) will lose me games. The most common non-Bolt removal spell (online) that hits Olivia but not necessarily Polukranos is Dismember. I'm honestly shocked that Terminate and Maelstrom Pulse can't crack the Top 50 Most Popular Noncreature Spells (and Ajani Vengeant can), so Doom Blade effects are probably extraordinarily rare.
Polukranos's lack of evasion has lost me quite a few games against Pod, true. Olivia is probably the better card as long as you can consistently drag the game out to Turn 6+ and you're in BR.
But that's the thing. Not everyone is in BR. I predict that Polukranos will be popular in green, non-Jund decks. Wilt-Leaf Liege is similarly costly with not much immediate impact, and the lord pump is overrated against the current popular combo decks (Exarchs, Cryptic Command, Primeval Titan frying butts off). Yet GW Hatebears plays it. Hero of Bladehold has a worse body, a similar cost, and a similar lack of immediate impact. Yet Death and Taxes plays it. I'd rather play Polukranos over Liege or Hero because at least I have a ghost of a chance of disrupting combo the next turn (Polukranos can off Pestermite, Goblin Electromancer, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Melira, Sylvok Outcast, and more, and it ignores Spellskite for a mere 2 more).
I predict that Polukranos will see play in Pod, GW Hatebears, Big Zoo, maybe Junk, and maybe BG Midrange.
Liege not only is an often free card(dismissing the claim that it's 'similarly costed'), but it has a very large impact on the game on the turn it comes in, as a massive pump to your field. Comparing these two seems very flawed.
As for Bladehold, it's in D+T. A deck designed to slow things down considerably, to tempo well, and with redundant ability to protect her. And when she does land, the payoff is far far grander. Being a massive generation engine, a field boost, and at the mere cost of nothing past the initial 4(my biggest problem with Polu).
The gameplans in both of these cases are very different. They aren't trying to disrupt combo, they are trying to race it. If you want to disrupt combo theres a hundred better cards to do it. By your reasoning, you'd prefer Orcish Artillery over Kitchen Finks as it has a better chance of disrupting combo. The point being, that this criteria is a very narrow-minded and flawed thinking.
Like I said, 4cmc is tough. Meaning you need a deck specifically designed to support it(like D+T), or it needs to have an instant effect. And most that are played do not require (much) additional mana after the fact to be useful like Pulo does. Because of how he's designed, he's likely to come out turn 4, making your turn moot. And then if you sink mana into it turn 5 to do what you want it to(grow/kill), it can easily be pathed/bounced(cryptic)/dismembered/etc in response. Which is a massive setback. With a minimal upside(a 9-mana vanilla 7/7 with a shock attached).
I just don't see the payoff being worth the risks. Being worth the time. Being worth the slots. With Modern having such good cards to work with. But if you're having success in testing, more power to you. I just know it's a common theme for people to see new sets through industrial strength rose-tinted glasses, looking for some new tech where none exists. And from where I'm sitting, it doesn't look promising.
Master of Waves 3U
Creature - Merfolk Wizard
Protection from red
Elemental creatures you control get +1/+1.
When Master of Waves enters the battlefield, put a number of 1/0 blue Elemental creature tokens onto the battlefield equal to your devotion to blue.
2/1
This guy has a lot going for him, even with his casting cost. 4 mana cards need to pull a lot of weight in Modern, but the Master fits that bill. This card needs to be answered the turn it hits or the opponent is probably going to lose. That's especially true because Master will, on average, drop probably five 2/1 tokens when he hits. So yeah, he's on the pricier side, but for 4 mana he's winning the game on the next turn, so I'm fine with that price tag.
The real killer on this card is the pro red. That means no Bolt, no Helix, no Electrolyze, no Galvanic Blast, and no Pyroclasm. UWR can hit him with Wrath, Verdict, and Path. Other decks really have Path and that's about it. Dismember hits him too, but that's an uncommon one. The real killer is the 4 CMC here, which puts him out of Decay range. The vast majority of decks are going to have no way of dealing with this card when he hits, and that's a huge plus for Merfolk.
Overall, this is a very exciting creature that is definitely going to add to Merfolk. He's a great top of the curve threat for that deck. Some people might allege that he is win-more, but he can rapidly turn games around when dropped on turn 4 even if the Merfolk player has subpar board position. With just 2 Merfolk, Master is probably making 4 Elementals and threatening 10+ damage on the next turn. That's a lot of presence, a lot of finishing power, and a generally awesome tool for Merfolk.
I see 2 main problems with the logic. The first, obviously being that since the elementals are elementals, they aren't merfolk. So if the Master dies, which isn't hard with 1 toughness(even if he is immune to bolt), they all die. They are weak, evasionless, vulnerable to sweeps(if all you have is red, you probably carry pyroclasm), and they are wholly dependent on a weakling. The second problem is the cost of 4. And not necessarily in general, but in terms of merfolk. Merfolk last I checked had a relatively low land count, relying on their minor costs and aether vials to get stuff out without running through their steam too fast and going into topdeck mode. This means that hitting the 4th mana on turn 4 isn't always going to happen. And when it doesn't youre left with a dead card in a deck that can't afford the lost pressure of dead cards.
I like this card. I could see it going places. But I'm not sure Merfolk is the right home for it.
That is good and all but how else am I supposed to play my Force of Savagerys?
In all seriousness, I could see RUG playing it possibly. Probably more the tempo version then the control version so that there can be a higher devotion count.
Don't see him getting played in Fish as it currently is, he quite simply doesn't work with the deck. Costing 4 is a huge problem when your entire deck costs 2 mana (or less) except for 3-4 reejereys.
He might be part of a new incarnation of Fish but he doesn't work in the current version.
I think you and I are both ready to be disappointed. I am waiting for a red direct damage = devotion card that I can bounce.
I think theros is limited to... limited and standard really. There might be a couple cards in the block that help other formats, but nothing that will be defining. Innistrad and RTR blocks gave modern and legacy too many cards, theros will be limited
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
Instead of thinking about Master's 1 toughness in a vacuum, we need to think about his 1 toughness and pro red in the context of Modern. The only things that hit this card are Path, Wrath, and Verdict. Everything else either sees minimal play (e.g. Dismember) or completely misses (e.g. Abrupt Decay and all the red removal). So when this guy gets dropped on turn 4, your opponent needs to Path/Wrath or lose the next turn. If he had Wrath, he was going to use it anyway to sweep out your other dudes, so Master just forces his play with a one card investment. If he had Path, any other lord was going to get exiled, so it might as well be the answer-or-lose card.
Even if he gets blocked and killed, he is still sending probably 11 power across the board (3 from himself, Lord included, and 8 from his elementals). That's either flat out game over on the spot, or just unrecoverable for most decks.
Here's the thing: Merfolk, as it currently exists, is not a good deck. It has a small MTGO presence, virtually no paper appearances, and isn't really distinguishing itself from any other aggro deck in the format. Master gives it a top of the curve presence that the deck currently lacks. You land a Master and, in most cases, the opponent has one turn to answer it. So if that means that Merfolk ups its land count from 20 to 23, then that's probably what needs to happen. I am more than willing to modify the current version of Merfolk to try and include something as bomby as Master, just because the current version of Merfolk is clearly missing something.
I'm not thinking about a vacuum, I'm thinking about current Modern. Which I'd venture you're out of touch with if you think Dismember sees 'minimal play.' Out of the top 10 most played spells in modern, 4 are removal, 2 of which hit and kill him(one of those is dismember, seeing play in over 25% of the field). The others being bolt(the obvious advantage), and pyroclasm, which neutralizes him anyways. There's also 2 counters in the top 10, which you have no defense against, since youll already be struggling to tapout for 4. But this isn't my main problem, since it'd help him work in other decks...decks that can buff creatures who aren't just merfolk.
It's one thing to modify a deck to fit a format. It's another to completely throw away a deck's game plan to try and work in a gimmick. Fish needs to be drawing fish, not land. When you stop being able to reliably draw fish, you stop being able to reliably put on pressure. It's akin to building a burn deck around the philosophy of wanting to drag the game out so it has a better chance to miracle Thunderous Wrath. In doing so you lose the strength of burn, which is ending fast.
But as always, if you want to try it, be my guest.
Not sure where you are getting these numbers. Dismember does not see play in 25% of the field. By the most generous estimate, it sees play in 10% of the field with, on average, 2 copies played in a deck. And that's an estimate taken from mtgtop8.com which, as we all know, only uses the nonrepresentative sample of 4-0/3-1 decks from the mothership. It's also a 2 week perspective. The 2 month perspective puts Dismember down to 6%, but I am willing to go up to 10% because of the recent rise of BG Midrange.
Now, when you compare the prevalence of Dismember to the prevalence of Decay or Bolt, it's more than reasonable to say it sees minimal play. Bolt is in more than 1/3 of all decks and often has the full playset. Decay is in about 25% of decks with 2-3 copies on average. Dismember? 10%, 1-2 copies. When it does get included in a deck, it is generally as a singleton or pair in the board, or a pair in the maindeck. Of course, Dismember's prevalence might increase as BG Midrange continues to be a FOTM deck. But even then, it still only uses a few slots, and it still isn't used in most decks in any appreciable quantity.
I agree that if this card did not have pro red, it would not be playable. But pro red on top of the answer-or-die effect is big. It's definitely worth trying. If that means modifying an element of a deck that is currently unsuccessful, then that's fine with me.