Quote from slipknot72102I would take any upgrade to the terrible counter suite.
Quote from necrogenesisHowever, after Modern became an actual format and WotC started spelling out what the format should be like, I started strongly doubting that we'll ever see Counterspell reprinted. First, as a format that doesn't rotate, Modern would keep Counterspell around forever if it were to be reprinted.
Quote from CrazyMike366Let's explore this line of thought.
We've already established you feel Cancel is unplayable, yet Counterspell would be a staple of the format.
It would help counterspell suites. mana leak is a staple and it is only ok.
Would you play Counterspell if it had a Thoughtseize-like loss of life clause tacked on, maybe at 3 life?
3 life is way too much. As it stands I avoid running thoughtseize instead I run IoK because its conditions really don't matter very often.
If Counterspell had a Path to Exile-like mana-advantage clause tacked on?
No because I couldn't run it with path.
If Counterspell cantripped for the opponent or forced you to discard another blue card as an additional cost, putting you down a card on net card advantage instead of trading 1 for 1?
If it was a free counterspell that did that sure. taking a counterspell that is almost too slow for the format already and adding a back-breaking clause to it would be just terrible. I mean look at deprive.
Would you play Force Spike if it were legal?
Only In decks that ran 8+ counterspells. So yes. It would be the only way to counter 1 drops in this format which is part of the reason why counterspells are kinda meh in this format.
Would you play a Mana Leak variant that costs UU to counter it unless the opponent pays 4, or is that still too conditional?
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Quote from DirtyJoséI see plenty of Control lists topping Modern dailies that have starting to fire up just fine without Counterspell. They don't need it. I like the idea that Control isn't just being handed a set of "no" cards. Pick the ones that work best for you, the ones that need building around, and make it work (other people have).
Quote from CrazyMike366I think that's the point. Swords to Plowshares is too good because its a good answer early, middle, or late, and should therefore not be in Modern.
In the same way, ... Counterspell is too good because its a good answer early, middle, or late and should therefore not be in Modern.
Quote from slipknot72102so this format has the best 1 drop of all time, the best 2 drop of all time, and the best 3 drop of all time yet blue decks can't have the what 10th best counterspell of all time?
Quote from DirtyJoséWizards seems to be of the mind that they don't want to see many Hard Permission style control decks and I agree with them.
Quote from PeinZoo sucks in legacy, specially after SFM, it's all about blue, fow, brainstorm.
Quote from bocephusCost one less then tinker and has legs (I wont even go into the extra cost for tinker)... To me thats better.
Quote from honestabeUm. False.
Please don't talk about formats you obviously don't play
Lightning Bolt is fine in Modern, but its deployment in Standard had to happen with care. It could have warped a metagame; it was slotted into a core set that would exist within a Standard that could handle Lightning Bolt, but the card can be a bit oppressive in a different core set.
Quote from DrWorm
That said, argument about Counterspell is going to drag this thread as much as such arguments have dragged down at least 4 other threads here on the first page. People should move on and discuss cards that have not been argued about for a decade.
Quote from DirtyJoséI think you intentionally under-value Counterspell here for the sake of your argument. If Counterspell was merely the 10th best counter of all time, what are the top 9? If you really think that, at least some of those nine are going to be Modern legal anyway.
Wizards seems to be of the mind that they don't want to see many Hard Permission style control decks and I agree with them.
ok it is number 5, but when this format has the best creatures ever printed in it I should expect something better than mana leak to be the best counterspell in modern.
Quote from DrWormI am pretty darn sick of hearing that Control just needs to realize that it cannot have a good win percentage against all archetypes, all the while Zoo has exactly that.
Now, I do not think Zoo is unfair, but it seems like a double standard to expect Control to suck it up in a format where the most popular deck (according to worlds) does not. Zoo is not unwinable by a long ways, and I do not think it's cards should banned, but it does have a favorable match-up regardless of the archetype it faces, as evidenced by worlds.
I do not want a blue-control dominant format, it does seem to me that there are some serious double-standards in the arguments. If Zoo has a good game against all the major decks it is annoying, but if a control (even worse a blue control) deck were to be in the same position many of you would be up in arms about how unfair it is.