I'm going to preface this by saying that my post is obviously my own opinion. It is a reflection of things I've found through observation and playing a retty large amount of modern.
THis should be obvious that my post is my own opinion, but Bocephus has gone out of his way to discredit anything i say by posting it's only my own opinion and since it differs with him, its awful. So just a heads up. My opinion.
too many of the decks are "i want to do my own thing regardless of what you're trying to do." and post board, it is "do i have the card to stop you from doing what you're trying to do?" there is very little room for play.
To me it is entirely a lack of diversity. I don't want to run BGx midrange into UWx control all day and flip coins. There is no distinct advantage to playing X deck over X and I think this is what Wizards wants. I hate long games and even though luck will always be an enduring factor, what Wizards has done now is make the format very high variance.
These two points sum up what is "wrong" with modern. Many of the matchups aren't interactive and fun to play. Decks are all based on being as un-interactive as possible or getting maximum value as possible. Even if your opponents are playing different decks the games feel the same, which is less fun, interactive, and skill intensive overall.
But they all use creatures! Thats right! Using creatures doesn't necessarily make the game interactive or fun. Interaction by using permanents or creatures only isn't necessarily the best. I would argue that wizards has moved away from interaction on the stack, which makes for a less interesting game overall. I personally find interacting with the stack to be more interesting than not.
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A lot of us need to ask ourselves Who is Modern aimed at?
Standard is generally considered to be the weakest constructed format. It has a meta carefully sculpted by Wizards. It's also the only one that they test for, since its really impractical to test for other formats.
Legacy is generally considered to be the most skill intensive format with the highest power of decks. Here decks have been tuned by people playing the same deck for literally years. Decks are powerful and often offer a person multiple things to think about and ways to interact and stop an opponent.
Modern is the awkward thing in between these, the balance hasn't really been reached and its possible it will never be reached. While there are some who enjoy it, in my experience a lot of people find it bland and unfun not really satisfying either crowd.
This is exacerbated because no one can agree on what modern is supposed to be. There are those who think Modern should just be Legacy without the reserved list, and those who think it should just be a slightly more powerful standard.
Complaints about the component aspect of the format aside, the only thing that is wrong with Modern is WotC's failure, yet again to offer any support to it by way of giving stores reasons to run Modern leagues/ tournaments. The only reason Standard is popular is because it has WotC's full support and can be played anywhere because of it. What is and is not in the format is a pittance of an issue compared to the simple fact that it is hard to find people or a venue to play at. SOme places have great Modern scenes (so I've heard, anyway) but a lot of places don't have much and there will continue to be nothing without more backing from WotC. My hypothesis is that WotC needs Modern as the carrot to keep Standard players forking out their money. Without it, only Vintage and Legacy exist and those are formats that are fairly exclusionary and also unsupported by WotC.
So in summation to the original posters question, I don't think it (Modern) is unpopular to play rather its unpopular to host because lack of company support: LGS's have no reason have a Modern scene.
This is all based on your LGS and owner. In my area at college the owners like playing modern and have at least two modern events a month that gets pretty large turnout. At home my LGS owner LOVES Vintage and is pretty much single handedly the only reason vintage hasn't died on the East Coast of the US, he got to host Eternal Weekend after YEARS of supporting vintage almost all by himself.
You need to ask your owner to hold the events and get people to show up if you want it to change. Asking Wizards to do something is honestly a little ridiculous. They've already made modern a supported FNM, printed modern masters, etc. Wizards has given modern more support than they give most formats. Unless you want them to actually force a schedule or quota for Modern tournaments I have no idea what more you want.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
I like modern, but my biggest hurdle is cost currently. I may not be building a deck to be pro tour worthy, but I do feel like I'm missing something when I'm not running fetchlands in multicolor decks. Return to Ravnica helped by reducing the price of shock lands and rumor has it that fetchlands (including those from odyssey block people have been begging for) may see a reprinting in an upcoming block.
I just really hate running inferior mana bases against tuned decks like tron, despite how much it sucks to drop $40-$50 per fetchland. I get the feeling this is the general consensus with people that want to move past standard into modern.
Standard is usually pretty easy. Just off-load decks prior to rotation and it greatly aids in supporting the cost. Mostly this method makes me sad because I tend to not have much leftover after a rotation, which has been the case the past couple seasons. That's part of the reason I'm drifting into EDH (for casual fun with my old cards) and modern and away from standard.
Unfortunately my LGS is the place where all the competitive types play. They have the space to host larger events in the state and it draws those players in. Modern events tend to be filled with fine-tuned established decks like g/r tron, scapeshift, affinity, etc. Rarely do I run into people that don't have all the fetchlands or other high-dollar staples (Karn Liberated, Emrakul, Vendilion Clique, etc). So if I want to spend an evening not just getting wrecked I have to spring cash or trades for them or stick to mono colored decks and do the same for other staples (like aether vial, shackles, etc).
In the long-run the lands are nice at least because they won't ever rotate on you. It just sucks to get started, which is part of the reason people aren't more involved with the format. Newer players that are getting drawn in are introduced to standard and lack the collection to play anything competitive in modern without dropping a lot of cash (or settling for bringing their standard decks).
Standard is usually pretty easy. Just off-load decks prior to rotation and it greatly aids in supporting the cost. Mostly this method makes me sad because I tend to not have much leftover after a rotation, which has been the case the past couple seasons. That's part of the reason I'm drifting into EDH (for casual fun with my old cards) and modern and away from standard.
Unfortunately my LGS is the place where all the competitive types play. They have the space to host larger events in the state and it draws those players in. Modern events tend to be filled with fine-tuned established decks like g/r tron, scapeshift, affinity, etc. Rarely do I run into people that don't have all the fetchlands or other high-dollar staples (Karn Liberated, Emrakul, Vendilion Clique, etc). So if I want to spend an evening not just getting wrecked I have to spring cash or trades for them or stick to mono colored decks and do the same for other staples (like aether vial, shackles, etc).
In the long-run the lands are nice at least because they won't ever rotate on you. It just sucks to get started, which is part of the reason people aren't more involved with the format. Newer players that are getting drawn in are introduced to standard and lack the collection to play anything competitive in modern without dropping a lot of cash (or settling for bringing their standard decks).
this is the third time i've seen similar threads come up and i'd have to agree with you here.
the cost is really pushing people out of eternal formats. and unfortunately like someone said previously, modern right now does feel like the poor men's legacy, at least that's true for me. If i could afford the legacy duals and old fetches and FOWs, I wouldnt play modern.
Modern should be a more balanced version of Legacy, but this is clearly not the case as combo decks are dominating the format, while control decks are doing poorly, aggro decks (except for affinity) are no where to be found. there needs to be some change, maybe the banlist is a good place to start.
A lot of us need to ask ourselves Who is Modern aimed at?
Standard is generally considered to be the weakest constructed format. It has a meta carefully sculpted by Wizards. It's also the only one that they test for, since its really impractical to test for other formats.
Legacy is generally considered to be the most skill intensive format with the highest power of decks. Here decks have been tuned by people playing the same deck for literally years. Decks are powerful and often offer a person multiple things to think about and ways to interact and stop an opponent.
Modern is the awkward thing in between these, the balance hasn't really been reached and its possible it will never be reached. While there are some who enjoy it, in my experience a lot of people find it bland and unfun not really satisfying either crowd.
This is exacerbated because no one can agree on what modern is supposed to be. There are those who think Modern should just be Legacy without the reserved list, and those who think it should just be a slightly more powerful standard.
Couldnt agree more with what you have said here. Luckily I am in an area where there is a group (20-40) players that dont question the format, just enjoy it. The sad thing is, if Wotc change their approach to Modern to something someone like you would enjoy more, it probably would kill what we locally are enjoying right now. I understand Wotc needs to design and mold the format into a format the masses wish to play. I just am not sure what the format will look like trying to please everyone.
Modern should be a more balanced version of Legacy, but this is clearly not the case as combo decks are dominating the format, while control decks are doing poorly, aggro decks (except for affinity) are no where to be found. there needs to be some change, maybe the banlist is a good place to start.
One chance for the wizards to make modern more interessting is to create new cards have more impact on it and help new players to get into the format.
I'm not sure either of you are very vested in the format. The reason Modern is not more popular are these stereotypes.
Think of all the new cards that have been printed that show up in Modern decks. Delver dominated the format for a while, but now tempo has a slightly different face.
WotC has been reprinting right and left to try to control costs, but the costs of Modern cards skyrocket because more and more people are playing it when they get those cards. The price of a Jund package with DRS, Ooze over Goyf, Thoughtseize et has gone down, but that puts pressure on cards like Bob and Fetches upward.
I think regionally its just like Legacy. People who have had a strong legacy scene think it's super popular, and people who don't have a Legacy scene at their LGS wonder why people don't want to play it.
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
As a newer player to modern building his first modern deck, another problem I've found is the intial price tag of getting into modern, I think people just see goyf and think "to expensive" or even dark confidant, for a lot of poeple one tarmogoyf is a entire deck or sometimes 3 or 5 decks if they aren't competative.
I'm not sure what people mean by non-interactivity?
Something else i've heard about is people feel the decks can be unfair, esspecially combo decks, this is more to do with newer players to mtg as a whole though.
I thought the same until I realized how much weak sauce goyfs are. One pacifism, oblivion ring, or path to exile and just watch the ensuing rage quit. Well pacifism is hilarious to watch as you see the guy get tilted by such a low cost card, lol.
I've always found the problem to be something of a catch-22. Without a place to play modern reliably what incentive is there for someone to actually go out and put together a deck when even the cheapest good decks runs 200-300. Added to that the people wanting modern tend to be people starting in standard and enjoying it so wanting to play with some of the other powerful cards they've seen. Those people don't want RDW or Burn they want to play Melira Pod, Jund, or Tron. (900/1600/450 respectively and they don't share many cards with standard decks the player may already own)
^This is probably the primary reason why most people don't play modern.
I happen to like burn, because it is cheap, easy to configure for specific meta if you play Rb/Rw/Rwb burn, and its just simply based on luck more than skill when it comes to winning (and the fact that I am not very impressed with Tron from the get go, even though it costs the same as my burn deck). Unfortunately it gets boring after a while which is why I also play Soul Sisters to keep things interesting. So basically I got 2 modern decks for $150 less than a single Pod deck, that includes almost all of the staple main board and sideboard cards for almost every configuration imaginable for those two decks. Plus the fact that I cannot justify carrying more than $500 in cards with me. All it takes is a quick mugging (or distraction) and boom you are out of a lot of money.
Standard is usually pretty easy. Just off-load decks prior to rotation and it greatly aids in supporting the cost. Mostly this method makes me sad because I tend to not have much leftover after a rotation, which has been the case the past couple seasons. That's part of the reason I'm drifting into EDH (for casual fun with my old cards) and modern and away from standard.
Unfortunately my LGS is the place where all the competitive types play. They have the space to host larger events in the state and it draws those players in. Modern events tend to be filled with fine-tuned established decks like g/r tron, scapeshift, affinity, etc. Rarely do I run into people that don't have all the fetchlands or other high-dollar staples (Karn Liberated, Emrakul, Vendilion Clique, etc). So if I want to spend an evening not just getting wrecked I have to spring cash or trades for them or stick to mono colored decks and do the same for other staples (like aether vial, shackles, etc).
In the long-run the lands are nice at least because they won't ever rotate on you. It just sucks to get started, which is part of the reason people aren't more involved with the format. Newer players that are getting drawn in are introduced to standard and lack the collection to play anything competitive in modern without dropping a lot of cash (or settling for bringing their standard decks).
I have to agree with your post. When I got into modern, the prices made my eyes pop out :o, but then I calculated the money I spent on standard and realized I was better off playing modern in the long run. Standard = buying a to of cards that will eventually rotate and sit in a box if I didn't get the chance to trade/sell them prior to rotation. Modern = cards, well decks to be exact, that can be used over a long period of time.
I first played a mono-red burn, but I never realized how competitive the modern players are at my LGS. Needless to say, once a Leyline of Sanctity got played, I realized that I would have to spend a lot more money to enjoy this format. Eventually I have dropped about $750 to have two decks that can at least give me a chance to enjoy the game (I care more about close matches than winning). Both of them have the hate cards for my specific meta, because people get used to a specific configuration, so I change them up from time to time to keep myself competitive.
My biggest beef though is the cost of some of the cards, but my biggest complement about modern is that the prices are far more staple compared to standard. I have literally purchased cards in standard that went from $5 to $15 over night I have sold cards for about $10~$15 and watched them either double or triple in price, or in some cases drop like a rock into the junk rare bin. I just can't keep up with standard prices any more and just settle for event decks that will only be upgraded if there are standard cards that can shared with one of my two modern decks; if not, then I just play the event deck until it is about to be rotated out of standard. Before rotation the deck will be sold on the cheap and replaced with a new event deck that can be played for another year or so. $25 to play standard is peanuts compared to what I was spending.
They could even come up with strictly-worse-but-still-good fetchlands:
That would be a cool idea for wizards to print, but we have evolving wilds and teramorphic expanse. The only advantage that card you have created would offer is deck thinning. The dual fetch lands are among the best fetches money can buy.
Modern just sucks.
No control like decks, just midrange or combo, random aggro can be played but you usually fold unless it's called affinity.
no card draw, no library manipulation, half of the games are decided by the starting hand, the other half from who start first.
It's a beatdown only format:
Play beasts, swing with them, who has the bigger ones wins.
Seriously, what's modern right now
Affinity
affinity
affinity
affinity
drop creatures, equip and swing
Jund
jund
jund
The hated deck, it's most skillful than the others combined, you know about it already, discard + removal then finish them.
kiki Pod
melira pod,
something pod.
kiki twin
use kiki to copy something enlessy while protect it with your pseudo counter.
Pod versions are actually more interesting and somehow difficult to pilot
Tron
tron
tron
tron
drop lands, search lands, get unremovable fattiest to troll them, since you will later cast carn who wins alone.
you can now add GW beast, which is basically, Loxodont Smiter + Wilt-lift, aka, we love jund and we are simply huge to deal with, and you have your format.
everything else basically isn't good enough (yet) to compete with (barring merfolks)
yet if you noticed, everything is heavy on creature or made by creature only.
Affinity is not that much aggressive in my opinion. My burn deck finishes them off like easy pickings even before I can get to a Rakdos Charm or Hide//Seek when I sideboard them in.
As for modern being unfun, its only unfun if you lose every friggin time. I enjoy modern, because I can tweak a deck over time and make more suitable for my LGS's meta. I don't have to buy new cards due to rotation, I can actually save money towards a card without the anxiety and fear of a sharp increase due to some GP, PTQ, etc crap.
P.S. - I seriously have some standard format price anxiety when it comes to modern; my biggest fear are PTQs and GPs that make prices spike to insane highs - I am coming to realize that modern prices are far more stable, but it's still a struggle to accept that. Personally I like the idea of modern not only for price stability, but the fact that WotC has a vested interest in getting players to keep on buying booster packs for new cards that may enhance their current modern decks.
terramorphic expanse only fetches basic lands, and makes them enter tapped. This could fetch steam vents, hallowed fountain....
Yeah you are right... I only had a few hours of sleep
I do like your idea now that you refreshed my memory
Personally I don't think WotC will ever print those. I like the dual colored fetch lands better over single colored ones. At least the dual colored fetch lands will open up more options (e.g. fetching basics untapped, etc). What are your thoughts???
jund is about as midrange of a deck as you can get. but its not worth arguing over definitions.
anywho, another problem is that once you get a modern scene going (at least in my experience) every event you play at feels like a ptq. of course, you have those random few people who play treasure hunt or some weird brew, but i go into every round expecting to play some tiered deck. even at a free modern event, people are coming with RG tron, jund, WUR, boggles, etc. its terribly unwelcoming to newer players who just want to play rotated standard stuff.
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I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
Modern just sucks.
No control like decks, just midrange or combo, random aggro can be played but you usually fold unless it's called affinity.
no card draw, no library manipulation, half of the games are decided by the starting hand, the other half from who start first.
It's a beatdown only format:
Play beasts, swing with them, who has the bigger ones wins.
Seriously, what's modern right now
Affinity
affinity
affinity
affinity
drop creatures, equip and swing
Jund
jund
jund
The hated deck, it's most skillful than the others combined, you know about it already, discard + removal then finish them.
kiki Pod
melira pod,
something pod.
kiki twin
use kiki to copy something enlessy while protect it with your pseudo counter.
Pod versions are actually more interesting and somehow difficult to pilot
Tron
tron
tron
tron
drop lands, search lands, get unremovable fattiest to troll them, since you will later cast carn who wins alone.
you can now add GW beast, which is basically, Loxodont Smiter + Wilt-lift, aka, we love jund and we are simply huge to deal with, and you have your format.
everything else basically isn't good enough (yet) to compete with (barring merfolks)
yet if you noticed, everything is heavy on creature or made by creature only.
Locally this is nothing like our scene. If 16 people show up for an event, there are 12-14 different decks. No one build can be prepared for all the decks you will see. Yes there are tier decks, but they are the cheaper ones. For the most part those enjoying the scene are playing nice and not trying to be 'that' guy who wants to dominate the format with one deck or build.
Quote from germanturkey »
anywho, another problem is that once you get a modern scene going (at least in my experience) every event you play at feels like a ptq. of course, you have those random few people who play treasure hunt or some weird brew, but i go into every round expecting to play some tiered deck. even at a free modern event, people are coming with RG tron, jund, WUR, boggles, etc. its terribly unwelcoming to newer players who just want to play rotated standard stuff.
This is because of the cost of some decks. Not everyone has the cards to build as they wish. They invest in one qualifier deck and thats all they play no matter if its FNM, some side event, or a PTQ. I am not sure how to stop someone from playing a deck they are invested in and/or like playing.
That would be a cool idea for wizards to print, but we have evolving wilds and teramorphic expanse. The only advantage that card you have created would offer is deck thinning. The dual fetch lands are among the best fetches money can buy.
I *love* this card. It can grab shocks, and most importantly, the card doesn't come in tapped. I can see this being a replacement for fetches in any 2 color deck. I wouldn't also mind seeing a basics-only version which can grab any basic.
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Things WotC cares about:
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
This is because of the cost of some decks. Not everyone has the cards to build as they wish. They invest in one qualifier deck and thats all they play no matter if its FNM, some side event, or a PTQ. I am not sure how to stop someone from playing a deck they are invested in and/or like playing.
yeah, i agree with that. i'm not saying its a bad thing, but playing jund against someone who is playing a standard rotated brew isn't exactly the best way to keep someone playing the format.
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I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
Modern took alot of time to pic up some speed at my lgs but the sheer amount of deals my lgs did to get it going (cutting prices on the cash cards if there hosting the modern week). But even then we average 23-30ish players compare to standard 50+.
I feel like Wizards needs to do something like reintroduce player rewards, but only for modern. that would definitely breathe new life into it because everyone loves free stuff.
Basically, Legacy is almost everything modern wants to be if your LGS supports it. And if legacy's to fast for you, there's EDH. Modern is for a very small part of the mtg playing population who dislike both standard AND legacy/EDH, or those who want to play as many GP's as possible.
Modern is a fun format, don't get me wrong, but for me and a lot of people I know legacy would be preferred of a LGS was opting events.
Again its a regional thing. I know the LGS that I frequent use to try and run Legacy weekly, then twice a month, now once a month and they can not get 8 to show up to fire an event. Modern fires every week for FNM and Sundays for store credit.
To say Modern should be more like Legacy, in my area, would mean you want it to be a dead format.
Am I the only one that enjoys this format? Both in this thread and over in the thread in Magic General, there's a bunch of posts about how people hate Modern and Legacy is totally better.
Am I the only one that enjoys this format? Both in this thread and over in the thread in Magic General, there's a bunch of posts about how people hate Modern and Legacy is totally better.
Why so much hate?
Its because they've been pretty aggressive with the ban hammer and in my opinion the format is worse for it. Right now the format is a midrange grind fest which I find incredibly boring and they've severely limited your option for playing control and aggro at the top tier. Legacy on the other hand has more viable decks in general for the top tier and as a result you have quite a lot of choice of different decks you can play and do well with. It also lets you play with older cards which are a lot of fun and are part of unique strategies. Plus you're actually allowed to play real cantrips so decks are much more consistent and skill intensive. Basically Modern just feels like "No fun allowed." because they have been too hands on with the format. Which is a shame because I was really stoked for the format when it was first announced.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
One thing that i think is a huge hinder to modern is the current slowdown of standard, wich make it harder to port standard decks to modern, wich would be something that could give huge incentive for people to jump from standard to modern.
Right now people can't jump from standard to modern without spending a lot of money (even being less than what you would be spent to jump into legacy, it still a fair ammount for non high level players).
One of the theorical attratives of modern is that your standard pools wouldn't become pratically useless after rotation, and that you could just upgrade your rotated standard tier 1 decks and get at last an modern tier 2 level deck.
But the reality is that standard tier 1 decks aren't strong enough to even be tier 3, even after upgraded with modern cards.
And related to that, the price is another issue, even if some some says that there is "cheap options" to enter modern... what if i don't like these few options? I simply can't enter without opening my wallet, since except by a few standard cards that make the cut into modern, i could "trash" almost everything i had from previous standard.
imo Modern is for a specific generation of players (myself included) who:
a)hate the limited depth of standard(if you think standard has more strategic depth than modern you obvisously haven't gotten into modern yet)
b)hate the rotation,that's right,there are some cards we just want to play and we don't care what month it is
c)have some experience with magic or are willing to study older blocks, for a new player modern is overwhelming,it's too hard to decide on a decklist when you don't know 70% of the formats cards
honestly Modern provides WotC a second chance to restart MtG as it SHOULD be
that's without lame combos that force you to play 0 mana counterspells-therefore blue- because otherwise you risk loosing the game at turn 2 as Legacy is
while it's not as lame as standard where WotC introduces a new mechanism and we all play that mechanism for the next year...
there were 2 options available for a new reasonable eternal format: reshape legacy with a massive wave of bans or start a new format with only 'fair' blocks,that's Modern best of both worlds.
ps:for those who say it;s dominated by Jund or Pod watch carefully,new blocks introduce cards that deal with those:
resolved Master of Waves is almost gg for Jund, while Anger of Gods can esily cripple Pod killing combo pieces and beaters alike,bypasses persist too,lastly the comments about lack of interactivity are plainly false: it's a format full of targeted discards,removal the occasional planeswalker, creature combat and cool interactions between cards,only counterspells are a bit lacking
THis should be obvious that my post is my own opinion, but Bocephus has gone out of his way to discredit anything i say by posting it's only my own opinion and since it differs with him, its awful. So just a heads up. My opinion.
These two points sum up what is "wrong" with modern. Many of the matchups aren't interactive and fun to play. Decks are all based on being as un-interactive as possible or getting maximum value as possible. Even if your opponents are playing different decks the games feel the same, which is less fun, interactive, and skill intensive overall.
But they all use creatures! Thats right! Using creatures doesn't necessarily make the game interactive or fun. Interaction by using permanents or creatures only isn't necessarily the best. I would argue that wizards has moved away from interaction on the stack, which makes for a less interesting game overall. I personally find interacting with the stack to be more interesting than not.
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A lot of us need to ask ourselves Who is Modern aimed at?
Standard is generally considered to be the weakest constructed format. It has a meta carefully sculpted by Wizards. It's also the only one that they test for, since its really impractical to test for other formats.
Legacy is generally considered to be the most skill intensive format with the highest power of decks. Here decks have been tuned by people playing the same deck for literally years. Decks are powerful and often offer a person multiple things to think about and ways to interact and stop an opponent.
Modern is the awkward thing in between these, the balance hasn't really been reached and its possible it will never be reached. While there are some who enjoy it, in my experience a lot of people find it bland and unfun not really satisfying either crowd.
This is exacerbated because no one can agree on what modern is supposed to be. There are those who think Modern should just be Legacy without the reserved list, and those who think it should just be a slightly more powerful standard.
This is all based on your LGS and owner. In my area at college the owners like playing modern and have at least two modern events a month that gets pretty large turnout. At home my LGS owner LOVES Vintage and is pretty much single handedly the only reason vintage hasn't died on the East Coast of the US, he got to host Eternal Weekend after YEARS of supporting vintage almost all by himself.
You need to ask your owner to hold the events and get people to show up if you want it to change. Asking Wizards to do something is honestly a little ridiculous. They've already made modern a supported FNM, printed modern masters, etc. Wizards has given modern more support than they give most formats. Unless you want them to actually force a schedule or quota for Modern tournaments I have no idea what more you want.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
So standard is fun more fun? I am confused.
I just really hate running inferior mana bases against tuned decks like tron, despite how much it sucks to drop $40-$50 per fetchland. I get the feeling this is the general consensus with people that want to move past standard into modern.
Unfortunately my LGS is the place where all the competitive types play. They have the space to host larger events in the state and it draws those players in. Modern events tend to be filled with fine-tuned established decks like g/r tron, scapeshift, affinity, etc. Rarely do I run into people that don't have all the fetchlands or other high-dollar staples (Karn Liberated, Emrakul, Vendilion Clique, etc). So if I want to spend an evening not just getting wrecked I have to spring cash or trades for them or stick to mono colored decks and do the same for other staples (like aether vial, shackles, etc).
In the long-run the lands are nice at least because they won't ever rotate on you. It just sucks to get started, which is part of the reason people aren't more involved with the format. Newer players that are getting drawn in are introduced to standard and lack the collection to play anything competitive in modern without dropping a lot of cash (or settling for bringing their standard decks).
this is the third time i've seen similar threads come up and i'd have to agree with you here.
the cost is really pushing people out of eternal formats. and unfortunately like someone said previously, modern right now does feel like the poor men's legacy, at least that's true for me. If i could afford the legacy duals and old fetches and FOWs, I wouldnt play modern.
Modern should be a more balanced version of Legacy, but this is clearly not the case as combo decks are dominating the format, while control decks are doing poorly, aggro decks (except for affinity) are no where to be found. there needs to be some change, maybe the banlist is a good place to start.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
Couldnt agree more with what you have said here. Luckily I am in an area where there is a group (20-40) players that dont question the format, just enjoy it. The sad thing is, if Wotc change their approach to Modern to something someone like you would enjoy more, it probably would kill what we locally are enjoying right now. I understand Wotc needs to design and mold the format into a format the masses wish to play. I just am not sure what the format will look like trying to please everyone.
I'm not sure either of you are very vested in the format. The reason Modern is not more popular are these stereotypes.
Think of all the new cards that have been printed that show up in Modern decks. Delver dominated the format for a while, but now tempo has a slightly different face.
WotC has been reprinting right and left to try to control costs, but the costs of Modern cards skyrocket because more and more people are playing it when they get those cards. The price of a Jund package with DRS, Ooze over Goyf, Thoughtseize et has gone down, but that puts pressure on cards like Bob and Fetches upward.
I think regionally its just like Legacy. People who have had a strong legacy scene think it's super popular, and people who don't have a Legacy scene at their LGS wonder why people don't want to play it.
I thought the same until I realized how much weak sauce goyfs are. One pacifism, oblivion ring, or path to exile and just watch the ensuing rage quit. Well pacifism is hilarious to watch as you see the guy get tilted by such a low cost card, lol.
^This is probably the primary reason why most people don't play modern.
I happen to like burn, because it is cheap, easy to configure for specific meta if you play Rb/Rw/Rwb burn, and its just simply based on luck more than skill when it comes to winning (and the fact that I am not very impressed with Tron from the get go, even though it costs the same as my burn deck). Unfortunately it gets boring after a while which is why I also play Soul Sisters to keep things interesting. So basically I got 2 modern decks for $150 less than a single Pod deck, that includes almost all of the staple main board and sideboard cards for almost every configuration imaginable for those two decks. Plus the fact that I cannot justify carrying more than $500 in cards with me. All it takes is a quick mugging (or distraction) and boom you are out of a lot of money.
I have to agree with your post. When I got into modern, the prices made my eyes pop out :o, but then I calculated the money I spent on standard and realized I was better off playing modern in the long run. Standard = buying a to of cards that will eventually rotate and sit in a box if I didn't get the chance to trade/sell them prior to rotation. Modern = cards, well decks to be exact, that can be used over a long period of time.
I first played a mono-red burn, but I never realized how competitive the modern players are at my LGS. Needless to say, once a Leyline of Sanctity got played, I realized that I would have to spend a lot more money to enjoy this format. Eventually I have dropped about $750 to have two decks that can at least give me a chance to enjoy the game (I care more about close matches than winning). Both of them have the hate cards for my specific meta, because people get used to a specific configuration, so I change them up from time to time to keep myself competitive.
My biggest beef though is the cost of some of the cards, but my biggest complement about modern is that the prices are far more staple compared to standard. I have literally purchased cards in standard that went from $5 to $15 over night I have sold cards for about $10~$15 and watched them either double or triple in price, or in some cases drop like a rock into the junk rare bin. I just can't keep up with standard prices any more and just settle for event decks that will only be upgraded if there are standard cards that can shared with one of my two modern decks; if not, then I just play the event deck until it is about to be rotated out of standard. Before rotation the deck will be sold on the cheap and replaced with a new event deck that can be played for another year or so. $25 to play standard is peanuts compared to what I was spending.
That would be a cool idea for wizards to print, but we have evolving wilds and teramorphic expanse. The only advantage that card you have created would offer is deck thinning. The dual fetch lands are among the best fetches money can buy.
Affinity is not that much aggressive in my opinion. My burn deck finishes them off like easy pickings even before I can get to a Rakdos Charm or Hide//Seek when I sideboard them in.
As for modern being unfun, its only unfun if you lose every friggin time. I enjoy modern, because I can tweak a deck over time and make more suitable for my LGS's meta. I don't have to buy new cards due to rotation, I can actually save money towards a card without the anxiety and fear of a sharp increase due to some GP, PTQ, etc crap.
P.S. - I seriously have some standard format price anxiety when it comes to modern; my biggest fear are PTQs and GPs that make prices spike to insane highs - I am coming to realize that modern prices are far more stable, but it's still a struggle to accept that. Personally I like the idea of modern not only for price stability, but the fact that WotC has a vested interest in getting players to keep on buying booster packs for new cards that may enhance their current modern decks.
Yeah you are right... I only had a few hours of sleep
I do like your idea now that you refreshed my memory
Personally I don't think WotC will ever print those. I like the dual colored fetch lands better over single colored ones. At least the dual colored fetch lands will open up more options (e.g. fetching basics untapped, etc). What are your thoughts???
anywho, another problem is that once you get a modern scene going (at least in my experience) every event you play at feels like a ptq. of course, you have those random few people who play treasure hunt or some weird brew, but i go into every round expecting to play some tiered deck. even at a free modern event, people are coming with RG tron, jund, WUR, boggles, etc. its terribly unwelcoming to newer players who just want to play rotated standard stuff.
Locally this is nothing like our scene. If 16 people show up for an event, there are 12-14 different decks. No one build can be prepared for all the decks you will see. Yes there are tier decks, but they are the cheaper ones. For the most part those enjoying the scene are playing nice and not trying to be 'that' guy who wants to dominate the format with one deck or build.
This is because of the cost of some decks. Not everyone has the cards to build as they wish. They invest in one qualifier deck and thats all they play no matter if its FNM, some side event, or a PTQ. I am not sure how to stop someone from playing a deck they are invested in and/or like playing.
I *love* this card. It can grab shocks, and most importantly, the card doesn't come in tapped. I can see this being a replacement for fetches in any 2 color deck. I wouldn't also mind seeing a basics-only version which can grab any basic.
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
yeah, i agree with that. i'm not saying its a bad thing, but playing jund against someone who is playing a standard rotated brew isn't exactly the best way to keep someone playing the format.
Again its a regional thing. I know the LGS that I frequent use to try and run Legacy weekly, then twice a month, now once a month and they can not get 8 to show up to fire an event. Modern fires every week for FNM and Sundays for store credit.
To say Modern should be more like Legacy, in my area, would mean you want it to be a dead format.
I understand not all areas are like where I play.
Why so much hate?
Its because they've been pretty aggressive with the ban hammer and in my opinion the format is worse for it. Right now the format is a midrange grind fest which I find incredibly boring and they've severely limited your option for playing control and aggro at the top tier. Legacy on the other hand has more viable decks in general for the top tier and as a result you have quite a lot of choice of different decks you can play and do well with. It also lets you play with older cards which are a lot of fun and are part of unique strategies. Plus you're actually allowed to play real cantrips so decks are much more consistent and skill intensive. Basically Modern just feels like "No fun allowed." because they have been too hands on with the format. Which is a shame because I was really stoked for the format when it was first announced.
Right now people can't jump from standard to modern without spending a lot of money (even being less than what you would be spent to jump into legacy, it still a fair ammount for non high level players).
One of the theorical attratives of modern is that your standard pools wouldn't become pratically useless after rotation, and that you could just upgrade your rotated standard tier 1 decks and get at last an modern tier 2 level deck.
But the reality is that standard tier 1 decks aren't strong enough to even be tier 3, even after upgraded with modern cards.
And related to that, the price is another issue, even if some some says that there is "cheap options" to enter modern... what if i don't like these few options? I simply can't enter without opening my wallet, since except by a few standard cards that make the cut into modern, i could "trash" almost everything i had from previous standard.
This, this, a thousand times this!
Thanks for not being another mouth breather.