Preordain wouldn't help Delver enough. It is worse at flipping Delver than Serum Visions (Visions draws a card and then scries 2, Preordain makes you draw after you scry.
It's true it's a little worse for flipping Delver, but not by that much. But it's better in all other cases. Just because you play Delver doesn't mean you'll have it in play and un-transformed every time you cast Serum Visions or Preordain, so in those cases you'd prefer the Preordain.
But more importantly, you're missing a key aspect: Preordain would be used in addition to Serum Visions. Having only 4 cards in your deck that can be used to ensure Delver flips is a lot less impressive than having 8 cards in your deck that can do it.
So Preordain definitely would help out Delver decks. Of course, those decks could probably use the help.
Because of this, it won't help you flip Delver unless if you reveal 2 instants or sorceries).
Huh? No, you need only one Instant or Sorcery, and then draw the other card.
And what is wrong with almost every blue deck playing Ponder? All that that means is that we'd have another card like Lightning Bolt. That isn't banworthy. Ponder isn't either.[/QUOTE]
It's true it's a little worse for flipping Delver, but not by that much. But it's better in all other cases. Just because you play Delver doesn't mean you'll have it in play and un-transformed every time you cast Serum Visions or Preordain, so in those cases you'd prefer the Preordain.
But more importantly, you're missing a key aspect: Preordain would be used in addition to Serum Visions. Having only 4 cards in your deck that can be used to ensure Delver flips is a lot less impressive than having 8 cards in your deck that can do it.
So Preordain definitely would help out Delver decks. Of course, those decks could probably use the help.
Huh? No, you need only one Instant or Sorcery, and then draw the other card.
And what is wrong with almost every blue deck playing Ponder? All that that means is that we'd have another card like Lightning Bolt. That isn't banworthy. Ponder isn't either.
Good point on Preordain> But my point is, Ponder would help them enough that we could have UR Delver be Tier 1 and RUG Delver be Tier 1.5. One of the many criticisms of the format that I have heard is the lack of tempo. Unbanning the cantrips would solve that.
And what is wrong with almost every blue deck playing Ponder? All that that means is that we'd have another card like Lightning Bolt. That isn't banworthy. Ponder isn't either.
This is an amazing summary of my exact feelings. A deck playing a specific card in high consistencies that is all about utility and choices should never be on the banned list.
If this is a high-noon on turn 4 format, then so be it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you only need to reveal one instant or sorcery to get a Delver flip. If you reveal a creature and an instant, put them both back with the creature on top, then you draw the creature and voila you have an instant sitting on top.
You are right, but I already was corrected about that.
Cantrips help consistency. It states right in the turn 4 rule. Why would Wotc give back cards that increase consistency when thats what Wotc is trying to remove from the format? Not to mention tilting the format towards blue because of that consistency.
Cantrips help consistency. It states right in the turn 4 rule. Why would Wotc give back cards that increase consistency when thats what Wotc is trying to remove from the format? Not to mention tilting the format towards blue because of that consistency.
The question is, would unbanning Ponder and Preordain make combo decks consistent enough to break the turn 4 rule. I don't think that they would. And as for making blue dominant, blue is the worst color in the format. Tilting the format towards blue would just mean that it is on even footing with red, green, and black.
I feel that unbanning Preordain would give blue-based decks a way to combat what is perceived to be a Thoughtseize problem by allowing them to play more to the top of their deck than having their hand stripped. Now that Storm has been completely neutered, I don't think Preordain poses much of a threat to the format, in fact, it may even draw the same kind of fun factor that Brainstorm does for Legacy.
I feel that if they unbanned Blitterblossom, that Mistbind Clique could become a problem. Bitterblossom on its own has some cards to keep it in check, e.g. Abrupt Decay and Illness In The Ranks (the latter also being good against Twin).
I feel that if they unbanned Green Sun's Zenith that Drayad Arbor may need to go. Decks that run 8 mana dorks inherently have a huge drawback... they top-deck poorly and are very susceptible to board sweeps. Running GSZ and Dryad Arbor in the same deck along with 4 other mana dorks mitigates the deck being susceptible to poor top decks (in fact GSZ is an amazing late game top deck) and board sweepers. GSZ with Dryad Arbor is just overly efficient. I do think GSZ belongs in Modern as it's a fun card to play with and is not broken, although it's very good.
Wild Nacatl should come off the list much the same that Valakut did, just to bring another archtype into the format that will not break it, but will be fun.
The question is, would unbanning Ponder and Preordain make combo decks consistent enough to break the turn 4 rule. I don't think that they would. And as for making blue dominant, blue is the worst color in the format. Tilting the format towards blue would just mean that it is on even footing with red, green, and black.
Ponder also doesn't increase the power level blue has currently, it combo's on turn 4 with the aid of other colors, it has answers with the aid of other colors, and it clocks with win conditions via the aid of other colors.
Ponder isn't going to make cards like Liliana unplayable, or make other decks non-legitimate. It's going to help struggling archetypes, including tempo and control.
If Splinter Twin combo's turn 4 more consistently, it's not breaking any rules. They already run 6-8 cantrips already.
The question is, would unbanning Ponder and Preordain make combo decks consistent enough to break the turn 4 rule. I don't think that they would. And as for making blue dominant, blue is the worst color in the format. Tilting the format towards blue would just mean that it is on even footing with red, green, and black.
Isnt that the exact words Wotc used when banning P&P when they did it? I believe they said it made certain decks too consistent.
It's funny how fearful Wizards is of blue. Modern is the only Eternal format that they have total control over thanks to the rules they set and they activity cut the balls off blue.
The effects are two fold.
1) When you get that one blue thing to try and balance it out, it tends to be a creature. This is having an effect in older formats where traditionally blue had few strong creatures.
2) Wizards can not really offer what blue traditionally does in the past to modern. Because it's effects are always so strong that you risk that take over you see in other formats.
It's a silly situation built on years of mistakes that compounds into an ever increasing snowball of more mistakes. Blue needs a new identity in the future if it is to be relevant again. If not, fear of past mistakes will keep it in this state of limbo.
tl: Wizards, get over the PTSD your mistakes have caused and give Blue a direction.
Isnt that the exact words Wotc used when banning P&P when they did it? I believe they said it made certain decks too consistent.
And then they proceeded to ban those decks out of the format. It made Shoal Infect and Storm too consistent. I maintain that they were overreacting to those decks.
I have a BIG question. Since BGx is such an expansive deck and all and all, why dont WoTC ban goyf?
Its a super splashable card, grossly powerful and can we played in almost any deck with green deck. Its expansive like hell and is a barrier to many players since its impossible to play a truely aggressive deck without it (set aside from merfolk or infect) and be competitive.
Wild nacatl is much more balanced IMO and is much more restrictive when talking deck building.
Now I see you coming: ''its just too expensive for you poor guy'', or ''buy a set or shut up''. Its a real question: why isnt goyf banned since its such a barrier for new players on the way to be competitive and is just all over the place all the time?
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Playing modern: all BGx, storm, burn, green eldrazi, dredge.
And then they proceeded to ban those decks out of the format. It made Shoal Infect and Storm too consistent. I maintain that they were overreacting to those decks.
Twin also. Remember twin was faster and more consistent with P&P in the format.
It all comes down to personal desires for the format. What is fine for some, isnt for others. Just look at the poll. A lot of people are voting with their heart and not their heads.
Quote from Kazog »
I have a BIG question. Since BGx is such an expansive deck and all and all, why dont WoTC ban goyf?
Goyf is the poster boy for the format. Its a vanilla beater that can be splashed into other colors very easy. It use to be called the best blue card ever printed.
Quote from Dice Bag »
It's funny how fearful Wizards is of blue. Modern is the only Eternal format that they have total control over thanks to the rules they set and they activity cut the balls off blue.
The effects are two fold.
1) When you get that one blue thing to try and balance it out, it tends to be a creature. This is having an effect in older formats where traditionally blue had few strong creatures.
2) Wizards can not really offer what blue traditionally does in the past to modern. Because it's effects are always so strong that you risk that take over you see in other formats.
It's a silly situation built on years of mistakes that compounds into an ever increasing snowball of more mistakes. Blue needs a new identity in the future if it is to be relevant again. If not, fear of past mistakes will keep it in this state of limbo.
tl: Wizards, get over the PTSD your mistakes have caused and give Blue a direction.
They have, it just is not the direction most blue players are use to.
It's funny how fearful Wizards is of blue. Modern is the only Eternal format that they have total control over thanks to the rules they set and they activity cut the balls off blue.
The effects are two fold.
1) When you get that one blue thing to try and balance it out, it tends to be a creature. This is having an effect in older formats where traditionally blue had few strong creatures.
2) Wizards can not really offer what blue traditionally does in the past to modern. Because it's effects are always so strong that you risk that take over you see in other formats.
It's a silly situation built on years of mistakes that compounds into an ever increasing snowball of more mistakes. Blue needs a new identity in the future if it is to be relevant again. If not, fear of past mistakes will keep it in this state of limbo.
tl: Wizards, get over the PTSD your mistakes have caused and give Blue a direction.
They have given Blue a direction: Tempo master. They are trying to make Blue decks fun to play against. JTMS and counterspells with high value are not fun. Modern is their baby, they don't want it ruined the way Legacy is.
Would Storm run Jace? Griselbrand Reanimator? Ad Nauseam? Amulet of Vigor? I somehow doubt that they would.
I said Blue Mages. Of those decks you listed, I only truly count Storm as a blue deck. And yes, I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple Jaces land in their SB. The rest of those decks are Tier 2 at best, and not exactly "blue".
You are probably right. However, I do think that SFM would be fine in the format if Batterskull was banned.
Fetching all the Swords would still be insane, but probably not oppressive the same way Baneslayer Germ would be. We'll call this a draw, but I don't see them banning 'Skull for the sake of the Mystic, especially since it's the new shiny GP Promo.
I don't think that Birds/Hierarch would have to be run, Dryad Arbor provides just as much acceleration for one less mana. I also don't think that consistency would be a problem. I personally believe that a deck being consistent doesn't mean that it should be banned if it can't win before turn 4. RG Tron can consistently get Tron on turn 3. Does that mean that Sylvan Scrying should be banned? Also, should card diversity really be a reason to ban a card? The decks are still different, they are just running a few similar cards. This is just like people who say that Lightning Bolt should be banned because it is run in every red deck. If the card isn't broken, it shouldn't be banned. Also, if GSZ was unbanned we'd be able to see decks like Bant and Counter-Cat again.
You don't HAVE to run Noble Hierarch/Birds, but why wouldn't you? Again, I'm pulling mostly from legacy decks here, but turn 1 accelerators are better in numbers, and casting a Natural Noble Hierarch is much better than fetching Dryad Arbor with GSZ. Arbor is you backup plan, Hierarch is your actual powerhouse ramper. But the number of each of those cards is roughly irrelevant, the point is that nearly every green deck would start with those 15 cards. It just hoses diversity, and probably powers up a few new "comboish" decks to boot, POD decks notwithstanding. How this relates to RG Tron and the Turn 4 is beyond me, but sure.
RUG Delver really hasn't done much in Modern. Also, look at the format. There is so little tempo in it. Even if Preordain was unbanned it wouldn't be enough. The format needs a cantrip that can flip delver even more easily than Serum Visions (which Preordain doesn't do). It also needs better card selection. And as I said, the worst thing that could happen with WUR Midrange and Splinter Twin is that they'd get to the point at which they'd be able to contain BGx. And do you remember why they were banned? They were banned for making decks too consistent. All of the decks that could easily break the turn 4 rule and could use the cantrips were banned out of the format. Decks winning consistently on turn 4 was never against the guidelines of the format.
It just placed Top 16, and RUG and U/R aren't very different from each other. Tempo isn't the dominant force it is in Legacy, but is that really what you want? I mean, I'm all for it, I'll play RUG Delver in every Eternal Format, makes keeping track of my sleeves and decks easier. But I fail to see how the format needs better card selection, or has to be able to flip Delver better. As for Twin being too consistent because of better cantrips, how has this changed? It's still basically a Tier 1 deck (as is WUR), and they aren't exactly crumbling to B/G decks these days.
While this is true, running a RUG deck and not running counterspells would concede the spell-based combo matchups. I don't think that a midrange deck with no way to interact with spell-based combo would dominate the format. The problem with BBE is that it makes Jund too powerful, but I was advocating raising the power-level of the whole format. It wouldn't be too powerful in a format with turn 3 Batterskulls and other powerful things.
Okay, so in Magical Valanarch Modern Land, BBE into AV is totally fine. I get that. It's actually not too broken in Legacy either. As for the RUG deck having issues with Combo, who's to say it's not just a 4-color Jund deck with Thoughtseize? With something as powerful as Bloodbraid, draw 3, it wouldn't take long for the pros to nail down the best BBE into AV shell for everyone to copy, and it wouldn't take much for it to be 4-colors either. Have we already forgotten the original Lingering Souls Jund build?
Running AV in a cascade-combo deck defeats the point. Restore Balance wins games. Living End wins games. If you put Ancestral Vision in there, you are losing consistency just to draw a few cards. What is worse is that in Restore Balance you actively don't want to draw cards. So you are not only reducing the deck's win percentage by 50%, but you are also making Restore Balance do less.
Okay, I'll concede the point here, you're probably right. But point is, Ancestral doesn't need BBE to be more than playable in the format.
You may be forgetting BBE Jund. So you would have Junk, Jund, Bant, WUR, RUG, BUG, WBRG, WBR, WUBG, and Azorius as midrange decks, which is more diversity than we have now and RUG Delver, UR Delver, BUG Faeries, and WUR Delver as tempo decks (which is more than we have now). The only archetype with less diversity would be control.
Wild speculation. I'm assuming your still talking about your ideal banned list, which I know you've listed before but still doesn't spring to mind. Still, listing all the generic color combinations that might be playable under your assuming ideal conditions doesn't prove anything.
If Jace/Mystic/BBE were all around, we'd probably have Jund, U/W Blade, and a few other variations of Midrange decks, but who knows? At this point though, your ValanarchModern is really starting to sound like LegacyLite.
I wouldn't say that Jace and Stoneforge are more powerful than everything else in Modern. Compare them to Deathrite Shaman, Tarmogoyf, Liliana of the Veil, and Dark Confidant. All that it would do is solve the color imbalance of the format. I don't want Modern to have Legacy's power-level, but I want it to be more powerful.
Alright, so Liliana might be the 2nd best ever planeswalker, but Jace is still very much a notch above in terms of power level. He provides Card Advantage in a way no other card in the format does. Where Liliana is either symmetrical or an expensive edict, Jace is a card-drawing machine. Let's not even think of the fact that a lot of people would probably just play them side-by-side. Stoneforge isn't Dark Confidant, or Tarmogoyf, or DRS. She's a turn 3 Batterskull. If we had only the Swords in the format, she'd still be better than Bob, but Batterskull.... (Here, let me kick this horse, he looks dead...)
I'm all for color balance, but since when is the format that uneven? U/W/R and U/R Twin/Delver variants are nearly as popular as B/G/x and Pod decks. So we've got a slight bias AWAY from blue, and that's uneven? Compared to Legacy, or pretty much any random season in the past 4 years of Standard, I'll take Modern for not being so damn saturated with Blue decks.
The point of the example with Twin is that there is no reason to ban it. Why should cards be banned for making turn 4 decks too consistent?
Preordain wouldn't help Delver enough. It is worse at flipping Delver than Serum Visions (Visions draws a card and then scries 2, Preordain makes you draw after you scry. Because of this, it won't help you flip Delver unless if you reveal 2 instants or sorceries).
And what is wrong with almost every blue deck playing Ponder? All that that means is that we'd have another card like Lightning Bolt. That isn't banworthy. Ponder isn't either.
Twin isn't banned... I'm not even sure what you're saying here. But it's certainly a big part of the reason Ponder is off the table right now. Let's run it back and take a look at some of these decks:
Things have changed, yes. But even as a lover of Insectile Aberrations, I can tell you that "Delvers need to flip more often" is not a reason for Wizards to set Ponder free. Preordain seems much more reasonable to me.
Also:
Cast Preordain, see Bolt/Tarmogoyf, put back Bolt/Tarmogoyf, draw Tarmo, flip Delver next turn. You only need one spell to flip Delver. Yes, Serum might be slightly better odds, but who cares when you get to cast Preordain?
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
I have a BIG question. Since BGx is such an expansive deck and all and all, why dont WoTC ban goyf?
Its a super splashable card, grossly powerful and can we played in almost any deck with green deck. Its expansive like hell and is a barrier to many players since its impossible to play a truely aggressive deck without it (set aside from merfolk or infect) and be competitive.
Wild nacatl is much more balanced IMO and is much more restrictive when talking deck building.
Now I see you coming: ''its just too expensive for you poor guy'', or ''buy a set or shut up''. Its a real question: why isnt goyf banned since its such a barrier for new players on the way to be competitive and is just all over the place all the time?
Price is not a reason to ban something. It just makes the players who already own Goyfs hate the format. Also, most aggro decks in the format don't play Goyf (Affinity, Merfolk, Bogles, Soul Sisters, Burn, Infect).
Twin also. Remember twin was faster and more consistent with P&P in the format.
It all comes down to personal desires for the format. What is fine for some, isnt for others. Just look at the poll. A lot of people are voting with their heart and not their heads.
Twin wasn't faster. It was still a turn 4 deck. I maintain that it would be fair with Ponder and Preordain in the format. Also, the metagame is perfect for restraining Splinter Twin. You yourself said that Abrupt Decay warps the format. If Twin became too powerful, Jund would be able to strike it down. The Affinity and Tron would destroy Jund and then Twin would return to beat them.
Also, about the poll, it said what we would like to see. I expect no changes, but I would like at least 8 of them.
Stoneforge isn't Dark Confidant, or Tarmogoyf, or DRS. She's a turn 3 Batterskull. If we had only the Swords in the format, she'd still be better than Bob, but Batterskull.... (Here, let me kick this horse, he looks dead...)
Actually, Batterskull is frequently a bad choice to search out with your first Stoneforge Mystic. The problem Batterskull has is that if your Stoneforge dies before summoning sickness wears off, then you've tutored for a card that will just rot in your hand. A Sword (or Jitte in formats where it's not banned) is a better choice for the first tutor, as you can much more reliably cast them if your Mystic bites the dust.
I find it more entertaining that 31 ( currently ) people naively believe more bans are good for Modern, that or JTMS is beating it.
Legacy is starting to look more and more inviting. Good job, WotC.
For the record, I voted no changes. But I believe if, and thats a huge if, Wotc still see the format as not balanced, banning is the way to go while the power level is lower. It is much harder to balance a powerful format without bannings, which hurts more with a higher power level.
But I personally do not 'invest' into a deck. I have 2 playsets of all staples and such so myself and my son can play any deck in the format. So banning cards does not hurt me in anyway. I just move on to the next deck.
Just when I thought Modern might be getting respectable, ten people (as of this moment) voted for Mental Misstep.
That's just nutty.
Agreed.
I didn't play when it was legal and I am so happy. Hearing the horror stories about every deck playing it (no matter the color) just because it could counter your opponents mental misstep makes my skin crawl... Ew.
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EDH RGOmnath, Locus of ManaRG URThe Locust godUR
Modern UWMiraclesUW
Legacy BGIce Station Zebra (Living Fins)BG UBRGrixis ControlUBR RGLandsRG
Okay, I'll concede the point here, you're probably right. But point is, Ancestral doesn't need BBE to be more than playable in the format.
No if you concede his point, then AV doesn't get more than playable without BBE. There is obviously no point constraining your deck design to draw 3 when you can just (essentially) win the game with LE or RB. You may think you're being clever always drawing 3 for 3, but cascading into these cards for 3 is just stronger.
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It's true it's a little worse for flipping Delver, but not by that much. But it's better in all other cases. Just because you play Delver doesn't mean you'll have it in play and un-transformed every time you cast Serum Visions or Preordain, so in those cases you'd prefer the Preordain.
But more importantly, you're missing a key aspect: Preordain would be used in addition to Serum Visions. Having only 4 cards in your deck that can be used to ensure Delver flips is a lot less impressive than having 8 cards in your deck that can do it.
So Preordain definitely would help out Delver decks. Of course, those decks could probably use the help.
Huh? No, you need only one Instant or Sorcery, and then draw the other card.
And what is wrong with almost every blue deck playing Ponder? All that that means is that we'd have another card like Lightning Bolt. That isn't banworthy. Ponder isn't either.[/QUOTE]
Good point on Preordain> But my point is, Ponder would help them enough that we could have UR Delver be Tier 1 and RUG Delver be Tier 1.5. One of the many criticisms of the format that I have heard is the lack of tempo. Unbanning the cantrips would solve that.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
This is an amazing summary of my exact feelings. A deck playing a specific card in high consistencies that is all about utility and choices should never be on the banned list.
If this is a high-noon on turn 4 format, then so be it.
You are right, but I already was corrected about that.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
The question is, would unbanning Ponder and Preordain make combo decks consistent enough to break the turn 4 rule. I don't think that they would. And as for making blue dominant, blue is the worst color in the format. Tilting the format towards blue would just mean that it is on even footing with red, green, and black.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I feel that if they unbanned Blitterblossom, that Mistbind Clique could become a problem. Bitterblossom on its own has some cards to keep it in check, e.g. Abrupt Decay and Illness In The Ranks (the latter also being good against Twin).
I feel that if they unbanned Green Sun's Zenith that Drayad Arbor may need to go. Decks that run 8 mana dorks inherently have a huge drawback... they top-deck poorly and are very susceptible to board sweeps. Running GSZ and Dryad Arbor in the same deck along with 4 other mana dorks mitigates the deck being susceptible to poor top decks (in fact GSZ is an amazing late game top deck) and board sweepers. GSZ with Dryad Arbor is just overly efficient. I do think GSZ belongs in Modern as it's a fun card to play with and is not broken, although it's very good.
Wild Nacatl should come off the list much the same that Valakut did, just to bring another archtype into the format that will not break it, but will be fun.
Just my thoughts... thanks.
Ponder also doesn't increase the power level blue has currently, it combo's on turn 4 with the aid of other colors, it has answers with the aid of other colors, and it clocks with win conditions via the aid of other colors.
Ponder isn't going to make cards like Liliana unplayable, or make other decks non-legitimate. It's going to help struggling archetypes, including tempo and control.
If Splinter Twin combo's turn 4 more consistently, it's not breaking any rules. They already run 6-8 cantrips already.
Isnt that the exact words Wotc used when banning P&P when they did it? I believe they said it made certain decks too consistent.
The effects are two fold.
1) When you get that one blue thing to try and balance it out, it tends to be a creature. This is having an effect in older formats where traditionally blue had few strong creatures.
2) Wizards can not really offer what blue traditionally does in the past to modern. Because it's effects are always so strong that you risk that take over you see in other formats.
It's a silly situation built on years of mistakes that compounds into an ever increasing snowball of more mistakes. Blue needs a new identity in the future if it is to be relevant again. If not, fear of past mistakes will keep it in this state of limbo.
tl: Wizards, get over the PTSD your mistakes have caused and give Blue a direction.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
(and in a very unlikely spot along side it, Chrome Mox)
And then they proceeded to ban those decks out of the format. It made Shoal Infect and Storm too consistent. I maintain that they were overreacting to those decks.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Its a super splashable card, grossly powerful and can we played in almost any deck with green deck. Its expansive like hell and is a barrier to many players since its impossible to play a truely aggressive deck without it (set aside from merfolk or infect) and be competitive.
Wild nacatl is much more balanced IMO and is much more restrictive when talking deck building.
Now I see you coming: ''its just too expensive for you poor guy'', or ''buy a set or shut up''. Its a real question: why isnt goyf banned since its such a barrier for new players on the way to be competitive and is just all over the place all the time?
Twin also. Remember twin was faster and more consistent with P&P in the format.
It all comes down to personal desires for the format. What is fine for some, isnt for others. Just look at the poll. A lot of people are voting with their heart and not their heads.
Goyf is the poster boy for the format. Its a vanilla beater that can be splashed into other colors very easy. It use to be called the best blue card ever printed.
They have, it just is not the direction most blue players are use to.
They have given Blue a direction: Tempo master. They are trying to make Blue decks fun to play against. JTMS and counterspells with high value are not fun. Modern is their baby, they don't want it ruined the way Legacy is.
I said Blue Mages. Of those decks you listed, I only truly count Storm as a blue deck. And yes, I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple Jaces land in their SB. The rest of those decks are Tier 2 at best, and not exactly "blue".
Fetching all the Swords would still be insane, but probably not oppressive the same way Baneslayer Germ would be. We'll call this a draw, but I don't see them banning 'Skull for the sake of the Mystic, especially since it's the new shiny GP Promo.
You don't HAVE to run Noble Hierarch/Birds, but why wouldn't you? Again, I'm pulling mostly from legacy decks here, but turn 1 accelerators are better in numbers, and casting a Natural Noble Hierarch is much better than fetching Dryad Arbor with GSZ. Arbor is you backup plan, Hierarch is your actual powerhouse ramper. But the number of each of those cards is roughly irrelevant, the point is that nearly every green deck would start with those 15 cards. It just hoses diversity, and probably powers up a few new "comboish" decks to boot, POD decks notwithstanding. How this relates to RG Tron and the Turn 4 is beyond me, but sure.
It just placed Top 16, and RUG and U/R aren't very different from each other. Tempo isn't the dominant force it is in Legacy, but is that really what you want? I mean, I'm all for it, I'll play RUG Delver in every Eternal Format, makes keeping track of my sleeves and decks easier. But I fail to see how the format needs better card selection, or has to be able to flip Delver better. As for Twin being too consistent because of better cantrips, how has this changed? It's still basically a Tier 1 deck (as is WUR), and they aren't exactly crumbling to B/G decks these days.
Okay, so in Magical Valanarch Modern Land, BBE into AV is totally fine. I get that. It's actually not too broken in Legacy either. As for the RUG deck having issues with Combo, who's to say it's not just a 4-color Jund deck with Thoughtseize? With something as powerful as Bloodbraid, draw 3, it wouldn't take long for the pros to nail down the best BBE into AV shell for everyone to copy, and it wouldn't take much for it to be 4-colors either. Have we already forgotten the original Lingering Souls Jund build?
Okay, I'll concede the point here, you're probably right. But point is, Ancestral doesn't need BBE to be more than playable in the format.
Ah yes, I forgot we were talking about "ValanarchModern" though. My bad.
More ValanarchModern discussion. Proving your point with an imaginary ban list isn't really proving your point.
Wild speculation. I'm assuming your still talking about your ideal banned list, which I know you've listed before but still doesn't spring to mind. Still, listing all the generic color combinations that might be playable under your assuming ideal conditions doesn't prove anything.
If Jace/Mystic/BBE were all around, we'd probably have Jund, U/W Blade, and a few other variations of Midrange decks, but who knows? At this point though, your ValanarchModern is really starting to sound like LegacyLite.
Alright, so Liliana might be the 2nd best ever planeswalker, but Jace is still very much a notch above in terms of power level. He provides Card Advantage in a way no other card in the format does. Where Liliana is either symmetrical or an expensive edict, Jace is a card-drawing machine. Let's not even think of the fact that a lot of people would probably just play them side-by-side. Stoneforge isn't Dark Confidant, or Tarmogoyf, or DRS. She's a turn 3 Batterskull. If we had only the Swords in the format, she'd still be better than Bob, but Batterskull.... (Here, let me kick this horse, he looks dead...)
I'm all for color balance, but since when is the format that uneven? U/W/R and U/R Twin/Delver variants are nearly as popular as B/G/x and Pod decks. So we've got a slight bias AWAY from blue, and that's uneven? Compared to Legacy, or pretty much any random season in the past 4 years of Standard, I'll take Modern for not being so damn saturated with Blue decks.
Twin isn't banned... I'm not even sure what you're saying here. But it's certainly a big part of the reason Ponder is off the table right now. Let's run it back and take a look at some of these decks:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/ptphi11/topmoderndecks
Things have changed, yes. But even as a lover of Insectile Aberrations, I can tell you that "Delvers need to flip more often" is not a reason for Wizards to set Ponder free. Preordain seems much more reasonable to me.
Also:
Cast Preordain, see Bolt/Tarmogoyf, put back Bolt/Tarmogoyf, draw Tarmo, flip Delver next turn. You only need one spell to flip Delver. Yes, Serum might be slightly better odds, but who cares when you get to cast Preordain?
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Price is not a reason to ban something. It just makes the players who already own Goyfs hate the format. Also, most aggro decks in the format don't play Goyf (Affinity, Merfolk, Bogles, Soul Sisters, Burn, Infect).
Twin wasn't faster. It was still a turn 4 deck. I maintain that it would be fair with Ponder and Preordain in the format. Also, the metagame is perfect for restraining Splinter Twin. You yourself said that Abrupt Decay warps the format. If Twin became too powerful, Jund would be able to strike it down. The Affinity and Tron would destroy Jund and then Twin would return to beat them.
Also, about the poll, it said what we would like to see. I expect no changes, but I would like at least 8 of them.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Actually, Batterskull is frequently a bad choice to search out with your first Stoneforge Mystic. The problem Batterskull has is that if your Stoneforge dies before summoning sickness wears off, then you've tutored for a card that will just rot in your hand. A Sword (or Jitte in formats where it's not banned) is a better choice for the first tutor, as you can much more reliably cast them if your Mystic bites the dust.
That's just nutty.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
Legacy is starting to look more and more inviting. Good job, WotC.
For the record, I voted no changes. But I believe if, and thats a huge if, Wotc still see the format as not balanced, banning is the way to go while the power level is lower. It is much harder to balance a powerful format without bannings, which hurts more with a higher power level.
But I personally do not 'invest' into a deck. I have 2 playsets of all staples and such so myself and my son can play any deck in the format. So banning cards does not hurt me in anyway. I just move on to the next deck.
So other peoples opinion of cards is what dictates your interest in modern?
calling liberals loons=not okay
The standard to which the forum moderators apply the rules here.
Agreed.
I didn't play when it was legal and I am so happy. Hearing the horror stories about every deck playing it (no matter the color) just because it could counter your opponents mental misstep makes my skin crawl... Ew.
RGOmnath, Locus of ManaRG
URThe Locust godUR
Modern
UWMiraclesUW
Legacy
BGIce Station Zebra (Living Fins)BG
UBRGrixis ControlUBR
RGLandsRG
No if you concede his point, then AV doesn't get more than playable without BBE. There is obviously no point constraining your deck design to draw 3 when you can just (essentially) win the game with LE or RB. You may think you're being clever always drawing 3 for 3, but cascading into these cards for 3 is just stronger.