And how are they going to reprint the cards. If they reprint them in Standard, there is a possibility of the Mutavault effect happening (especially with the fetchlands). If they reprint them in a supplemental product that isn't printed enough, the prices will go up. If it has an unlimited print run it will cause the speculators to cry about Chronicles 2.0.
They will have to find a way, otherwise new-blood stops entering the format and with older player attrition the format loses momentum and begins shrinking. I still believe that printing them in a Standard set stabilize the market for the foreseeable future. People will buy ass-loads of packs and people will be able to get some fetches that way, then they can trade them with another player who needs a different fetch. Almost everyone wants Mutavault in their Standard deck, but that will not be the case for Polluted Delta and Arid Mesa (especially without shocks in the format). Some decks will want Delta, some will want Mesa, and people will trade for the one they need. It will not be quite like Mutavault. I anticipate it will still end up being a bit expensive to get a good mana base (like $60 fetches), but for a while at least it will regulate the spikes.
If fetchlands are $60, that is still too high for Standard. Wizards cannot afford to have its main money-maker cost over $500 just for a single 2-color manabase.
What you are talking about has been talked about for years in all formats about the mana bases being the most expensive part of a deck.
$60 fetchs I think are a pipe dream now. I would say $75 or better is going to be the price. By the time they do reprint them, the blue ones will be pushing the upper hundreds. I doubt we see a crash in price down to under $60.
Lesson to be learned, dont trade away your mana base.
And still Bocephus, you don't see a problem with fetchlands becoming as expensive as ABUR duals?
No I dont. I see it as a part of the game. ABUR duals are what fetches are to Modern right now. All formats have there expensive mana bases. To some the price of shocks are too expensive. Just wait till shocks are back up to the $20-$30 range. If Wotc doesnt reprint them again in 5 years, shocks will be up to $50 or better. Mana bases have always been costly. The lands that are going to be cray, and I suspect higher then fetches in the long run, are the role players, Horizon canopies, and the hide away lands. Filters are climbing also.
Like i said to you earlier, we have all been there. It takes time to build a collection. Even on MTGO its going to take you time and money to track down the cards you want/need. Be smaert about your budget and prioritize what you need/want.
And how are they going to reprint the cards. If they reprint them in Standard, there is a possibility of the Mutavault effect happening (especially with the fetchlands). If they reprint them in a supplemental product that isn't printed enough, the prices will go up. If it has an unlimited print run it will cause the speculators to cry about Chronicles 2.0.
They will have to find a way, otherwise new-blood stops entering the format and with older player attrition the format loses momentum and begins shrinking. I still believe that printing them in a Standard set stabilize the market for the foreseeable future. People will buy ass-loads of packs and people will be able to get some fetches that way, then they can trade them with another player who needs a different fetch. Almost everyone wants Mutavault in their Standard deck, but that will not be the case for Polluted Delta and Arid Mesa (especially without shocks in the format). Some decks will want Delta, some will want Mesa, and people will trade for the one they need. It will not be quite like Mutavault. I anticipate it will still end up being a bit expensive to get a good mana base (like $60 fetches), but for a while at least it will regulate the spikes.
If fetchlands are $60, that is still too high for Standard. Wizards cannot afford to have its main money-maker cost over $500 just for a single 2-color manabase.
What you are talking about has been talked about for years in all formats about the mana bases being the most expensive part of a deck.
$60 fetchs I think are a pipe dream now. I would say $75 or better is going to be the price. By the time they do reprint them, the blue ones will be pushing the upper hundreds. I doubt we see a crash in price down to under $60.
Lesson to be learned, dont trade away your mana base.
And still Bocephus, you don't see a problem with fetchlands becoming as expensive as ABUR duals?
No I dont. I see it as a part of the game. ABUR duals are what fetches are to Modern right now. All formats have there expensive mana bases. To some the price of shocks are too expensive. Just wait till shocks are back up to the $20-$30 range. If Wotc doesnt reprint them again in 5 years, shocks will be up to $50 or better. Mana bases have always been costly. The lands that are going to be cray, and I suspect higher then fetches in the long run, are the role players, Horizon canopies, and the hide away lands. Filters are climbing also.
Like i said to you earlier, we have all been there. It takes time to build a collection. Even on MTGO its going to take you time and money to track down the cards you want/need. Be smaert about your budget and prioritize what you need/want.
And as I told you earlier, my budget is very small so I can't afford fetchlands and will never be able to afford fetchlands until I get a fulltime job that pays enough for me to have enough to spend $400 on a single Scadling Tarn (it will get there sooner or later, and most likely sooner). That is most likely going to be at least 5-10 years from now. Also, fetchlands aren't on the Reserved List and they don't have collector value. They shouldn't be that expensive. And as I keep saying, while the manabase is the most expensive part of the game, if it costs $1800 to make a single manabase, how are newer players going to be able to get into the fromat?
And how are they going to reprint the cards. If they reprint them in Standard, there is a possibility of the Mutavault effect happening (especially with the fetchlands). If they reprint them in a supplemental product that isn't printed enough, the prices will go up. If it has an unlimited print run it will cause the speculators to cry about Chronicles 2.0.
They will have to find a way, otherwise new-blood stops entering the format and with older player attrition the format loses momentum and begins shrinking. I still believe that printing them in a Standard set stabilize the market for the foreseeable future. People will buy ass-loads of packs and people will be able to get some fetches that way, then they can trade them with another player who needs a different fetch. Almost everyone wants Mutavault in their Standard deck, but that will not be the case for Polluted Delta and Arid Mesa (especially without shocks in the format). Some decks will want Delta, some will want Mesa, and people will trade for the one they need. It will not be quite like Mutavault. I anticipate it will still end up being a bit expensive to get a good mana base (like $60 fetches), but for a while at least it will regulate the spikes.
This, yes, totally agree. If price becomes such a barrier that new players will not enter, that combined with attrition will cause Modern to slowly die as a format.
And as I told you earlier, my budget is very small so I can't afford fetchlands and will never be able to afford fetchlands until I get a fulltime job that pays enough for me to have enough to spend $400 on a single Scadling Tarn (it will get there sooner or later, and most likely sooner). That is most likely going to be at least 5-10 years from now. Also, fetchlands aren't on the Reserved List and they don't have collector value. They shouldn't be that expensive. And as I keep saying, while the manabase is the most expensive part of the game, if it costs $1800 to make a single manabase, how are newer players going to be able to get into the fromat?
$1800 mana bases are all relative. 5 years ago people complained about the cost of the mana base in Standard and Legacy. 10 years ago the people complained about the mana base in Legacy, Standard, and Extended. 15 years ago people complained about the price spikes and the cost to play the game. What you are explaining IS part of the game.
As many have told you, you are going to have to work up to it like a majority of the older player base has.
Magic is a game of many pieces and it takes time and money to get those pieces to play at a certain level. Always has, always will.
Quote from Celstial_Assault »
This, yes, totally agree. If price becomes such a barrier that new players will not enter, that combined with attrition will cause Modern to slowly die as a format.
If we didnt have Legacy and Vintage where people take out second mortgages and trade away expensive things outside of Magic for cards, I might agree with you. Modern could get more expensive as Legacy is right now and people will play.
I will say, Wotc and the player base probably have a different definition of successful. Just because a portion of the player base feels the format is a failure, doesnt mean Wotc or the other parts of the player base will feel the same.
Professional level Legacy burn costs about $70. Just sayin'...
There's usually a cheap and easy entry point to the format. Just very limited options in that case.
Yup, this exactly. As with most things in life, you don't get it handed to you because you want it. There is always a budget option as well, you've just got to determine priorities in life. After all, most of us are grown adults who are playing with ink printed on cardboard. I see a lot of new players frustrated with this, but modern popularity is at an all time high and attendance levels at events (see this recent GP) have really upped the interest in the format. Coverage and popularity go hand in hand with prices, and I expect SCG to jump on the bandwagon and begin pushing Modern more in the near future. Don't expect prices to go down much, if at all. WOTC also makes most of their money on limited and standard, so don't expect them to go out of their way to increase modern popularity even further. The format is in a good spot at the moment. Curious to see how the numbers at the next GP compare to this past one.
And as I told you earlier, my budget is very small so I can't afford fetchlands and will never be able to afford fetchlands until I get a fulltime job that pays enough for me to have enough to spend $400 on a single Scadling Tarn (it will get there sooner or later, and most likely sooner). That is most likely going to be at least 5-10 years from now. Also, fetchlands aren't on the Reserved List and they don't have collector value. They shouldn't be that expensive. And as I keep saying, while the manabase is the most expensive part of the game, if it costs $1800 to make a single manabase, how are newer players going to be able to get into the fromat?
$1800 mana bases are all relative. 5 years ago people complained about the cost of the mana base in Standard and Legacy. 10 years ago the people complained about the mana base in Legacy, Standard, and Extended. 15 years ago people complained about the price spikes and the cost to play the game. What you are explaining IS part of the game.
As many have told you, you are going to have to work up to it like a majority of the older player base has.
Magic is a game of many pieces and it takes time and money to get those pieces to play at a certain level. Always has, always will.
The difference is that prices are higher now and they increase fast enough that people have trouble working their way up. It was easier before. Also, I have asked you this question many times. How many newer players do you see working their way up to Legacy nowadays? If Modern gets to that point, it will be just as bad.
Quote from Celstial_Assault »
This, yes, totally agree. If price becomes such a barrier that new players will not enter, that combined with attrition will cause Modern to slowly die as a format.
If we didnt have Legacy and Vintage where people take out second mortgages and trade away expensive things outside of Magic for cards, I might agree with you. Modern could get more expensive as Legacy is right now and people will play.
I will say, Wotc and the player base probably have a different definition of successful. Just because a portion of the player base feels the format is a failure, doesnt mean Wotc or the other parts of the player base will feel the same.
I haven't met any players who actually want the format to be more expensive. Even you seem like you are just accepting that it is going to be expensive, not saying that the format would be better if it is more expensive and less people can play it.
And as I told you earlier, my budget is very small so I can't afford fetchlands and will never be able to afford fetchlands until I get a fulltime job that pays enough for me to have enough to spend $400 on a single Scadling Tarn (it will get there sooner or later, and most likely sooner). That is most likely going to be at least 5-10 years from now. Also, fetchlands aren't on the Reserved List and they don't have collector value. They shouldn't be that expensive. And as I keep saying, while the manabase is the most expensive part of the game, if it costs $1800 to make a single manabase, how are newer players going to be able to get into the fromat?
$1800 mana bases are all relative. 5 years ago people complained about the cost of the mana base in Standard and Legacy. 10 years ago the people complained about the mana base in Legacy, Standard, and Extended. 15 years ago people complained about the price spikes and the cost to play the game. What you are explaining IS part of the game.
As many have told you, you are going to have to work up to it like a majority of the older player base has.
Magic is a game of many pieces and it takes time and money to get those pieces to play at a certain level. Always has, always will.
The difference is that prices are higher now and they increase fast enough that people have trouble working their way up. It was easier before. Also, I have asked you this question many times. How many newer players do you see working their way up to Legacy nowadays? If Modern gets to that point, it will be just as bad.
Quote from Celstial_Assault »
This, yes, totally agree. If price becomes such a barrier that new players will not enter, that combined with attrition will cause Modern to slowly die as a format.
If we didnt have Legacy and Vintage where people take out second mortgages and trade away expensive things outside of Magic for cards, I might agree with you. Modern could get more expensive as Legacy is right now and people will play.
I will say, Wotc and the player base probably have a different definition of successful. Just because a portion of the player base feels the format is a failure, doesnt mean Wotc or the other parts of the player base will feel the same.
I haven't met any players who actually want the format to be more expensive. Even you seem like you are just accepting that it is going to be expensive, not saying that the format would be better if it is more expensive and less people can play it.
There is no difference between then and now, people actually have more disposable income now then back then, hence one of the reasons the prices are doing now what they are. Thats why I keep telling you its all relative, which it is, you just cant see it how it was, but there were people saying the exact same thing you are now, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, and any year in between. Its part of the game. Its not a better or worse thing, its just part of the game and the economy of the game. I have gotten use to it, adapted, and roll with it. Just like any competitive hobby, its pay to play.
And as I told you earlier, my budget is very small so I can't afford fetchlands and will never be able to afford fetchlands until I get a fulltime job that pays enough for me to have enough to spend $400 on a single Scadling Tarn (it will get there sooner or later, and most likely sooner). That is most likely going to be at least 5-10 years from now. Also, fetchlands aren't on the Reserved List and they don't have collector value. They shouldn't be that expensive. And as I keep saying, while the manabase is the most expensive part of the game, if it costs $1800 to make a single manabase, how are newer players going to be able to get into the fromat?
$1800 mana bases are all relative. 5 years ago people complained about the cost of the mana base in Standard and Legacy. 10 years ago the people complained about the mana base in Legacy, Standard, and Extended. 15 years ago people complained about the price spikes and the cost to play the game. What you are explaining IS part of the game.
As many have told you, you are going to have to work up to it like a majority of the older player base has.
Magic is a game of many pieces and it takes time and money to get those pieces to play at a certain level. Always has, always will.
The difference is that prices are higher now and they increase fast enough that people have trouble working their way up. It was easier before. Also, I have asked you this question many times. How many newer players do you see working their way up to Legacy nowadays? If Modern gets to that point, it will be just as bad.
Quote from Celstial_Assault »
This, yes, totally agree. If price becomes such a barrier that new players will not enter, that combined with attrition will cause Modern to slowly die as a format.
If we didnt have Legacy and Vintage where people take out second mortgages and trade away expensive things outside of Magic for cards, I might agree with you. Modern could get more expensive as Legacy is right now and people will play.
I will say, Wotc and the player base probably have a different definition of successful. Just because a portion of the player base feels the format is a failure, doesnt mean Wotc or the other parts of the player base will feel the same.
I haven't met any players who actually want the format to be more expensive. Even you seem like you are just accepting that it is going to be expensive, not saying that the format would be better if it is more expensive and less people can play it.
There is no difference between then and now, people actually have more disposable income now then back then, hence one of the reasons the prices are doing now what they are. Thats why I keep telling you its all relative, which it is, you just cant see it how it was, but there were people saying the exact same thing you are now, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, and any year in between. Its part of the game. Its not a better or worse thing, its just part of the game and the economy of the game. I have gotten use to it, adapted, and roll with it. Just like any competitive hobby, its pay to play.
Still, the vast majority of players people are unable to get into Legacy now. How will they get into Modern when it gets that expensive?
Still, the vast majority of players people are unable to get into Legacy now. How will they get into Modern when it gets that expensive?
How old is Legacy? Yeah people have been making the same claim as long as Legacy has been a format. Before that it was Vintage or type 1. Nothing has changed, its just the new group of new players realizing the same thing that has been going on for 20 years.
Still, the vast majority of players people are unable to get into Legacy now. How will they get into Modern when it gets that expensive?
How old is Legacy? Yeah people have been making the same claim as long as Legacy has been a format. Before that it was Vintage or type 1. Nothing has changed, its just the new group of new players realizing the same thing that has been going on for 20 years.
The thing is that Modern was created as an alternative to Legacy. If it gets to Legacy prices, it will defeat the one of the main points of the format.
No I dont. I see it as a part of the game. ABUR duals are what fetches are to Modern right now. All formats have there expensive mana bases. To some the price of shocks are too expensive. Just wait till shocks are back up to the $20-$30 range. If Wotc doesnt reprint them again in 5 years, shocks will be up to $50 or better. Mana bases have always been costly. The lands that are going to be cray, and I suspect higher then fetches in the long run, are the role players, Horizon canopies, and the hide away lands. Filters are climbing also.
Like i said to you earlier, we have all been there. It takes time to build a collection. Even on MTGO its going to take you time and money to track down the cards you want/need. Be smaert about your budget and prioritize what you need/want.
And as I told you earlier, my budget is very small so I can't afford fetchlands and will never be able to afford fetchlands until I get a fulltime job that pays enough for me to have enough to spend $400 on a single Scadling Tarn (it will get there sooner or later, and most likely sooner). That is most likely going to be at least 5-10 years from now. Also, fetchlands aren't on the Reserved List and they don't have collector value. They shouldn't be that expensive. And as I keep saying, while the manabase is the most expensive part of the game, if it costs $1800 to make a single manabase, how are newer players going to be able to get into the fromat?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
This, yes, totally agree. If price becomes such a barrier that new players will not enter, that combined with attrition will cause Modern to slowly die as a format.
$1800 mana bases are all relative. 5 years ago people complained about the cost of the mana base in Standard and Legacy. 10 years ago the people complained about the mana base in Legacy, Standard, and Extended. 15 years ago people complained about the price spikes and the cost to play the game. What you are explaining IS part of the game.
As many have told you, you are going to have to work up to it like a majority of the older player base has.
Magic is a game of many pieces and it takes time and money to get those pieces to play at a certain level. Always has, always will.
If we didnt have Legacy and Vintage where people take out second mortgages and trade away expensive things outside of Magic for cards, I might agree with you. Modern could get more expensive as Legacy is right now and people will play.
I will say, Wotc and the player base probably have a different definition of successful. Just because a portion of the player base feels the format is a failure, doesnt mean Wotc or the other parts of the player base will feel the same.
There's usually a cheap and easy entry point to the format. Just very limited options in that case.
Yup, this exactly. As with most things in life, you don't get it handed to you because you want it. There is always a budget option as well, you've just got to determine priorities in life. After all, most of us are grown adults who are playing with ink printed on cardboard. I see a lot of new players frustrated with this, but modern popularity is at an all time high and attendance levels at events (see this recent GP) have really upped the interest in the format. Coverage and popularity go hand in hand with prices, and I expect SCG to jump on the bandwagon and begin pushing Modern more in the near future. Don't expect prices to go down much, if at all. WOTC also makes most of their money on limited and standard, so don't expect them to go out of their way to increase modern popularity even further. The format is in a good spot at the moment. Curious to see how the numbers at the next GP compare to this past one.
That is also the most boring, linear, and skill-less deck in that entire format.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
The difference is that prices are higher now and they increase fast enough that people have trouble working their way up. It was easier before. Also, I have asked you this question many times. How many newer players do you see working their way up to Legacy nowadays? If Modern gets to that point, it will be just as bad.
I haven't met any players who actually want the format to be more expensive. Even you seem like you are just accepting that it is going to be expensive, not saying that the format would be better if it is more expensive and less people can play it.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
There is no difference between then and now, people actually have more disposable income now then back then, hence one of the reasons the prices are doing now what they are. Thats why I keep telling you its all relative, which it is, you just cant see it how it was, but there were people saying the exact same thing you are now, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, and any year in between. Its part of the game. Its not a better or worse thing, its just part of the game and the economy of the game. I have gotten use to it, adapted, and roll with it. Just like any competitive hobby, its pay to play.
Still, the vast majority of players people are unable to get into Legacy now. How will they get into Modern when it gets that expensive?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
How old is Legacy? Yeah people have been making the same claim as long as Legacy has been a format. Before that it was Vintage or type 1. Nothing has changed, its just the new group of new players realizing the same thing that has been going on for 20 years.
The thing is that Modern was created as an alternative to Legacy. If it gets to Legacy prices, it will defeat the one of the main points of the format.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Feel free to discuss any of the subtopics of the discussion in their respective threads (Banlist, Prices, Metagame, etc.)
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