I would love to see the definition of fair that leads to BGx decks being classified unfair, the deck is just efficient spells and undercosted fatties, with a bit of card advantage thrown in.
I consider Zoo a fair deck. More or less one strategy to win, very straight forward. BGx decks can change gears mid game and win in multiple ways. I am not saying the BGx decks are broken or top end unfair, but to say they are completely fair would not be true either, to me.
For me the definition is simple.
Combo = unfair
Non-combo = fair
Spoken like a true blue mage.
Funny when the best fair deck isn't blue and the best combo decks are blue.
I would love to see the definition of fair that leads to BGx decks being classified unfair, the deck is just efficient spells and undercosted fatties, with a bit of card advantage thrown in.
I consider Zoo a fair deck. More or less one strategy to win, very straight forward. BGx decks can change gears mid game and win in multiple ways. I am not saying the BGx decks are broken or top end unfair, but to say they are completely fair would not be true either, to me.
For me the definition is simple.
Combo = unfair
Non-combo = fair
Spoken like a true blue mage.
Im actually a black mage. I enjoy killing stuff. Blue just happens to work well with it
Unfair refers to unfair things. For example, Twin can win unfairly, or fairly. It wants to win unfairly but you can make it "Honest" by not letting them combo.
For what its worth, Zoo is extremely fair. Most jund decks are too. They play by the rules, even if its their own powerful rules. If zoo runs Bloodbraid Elf, into Boom//Bust to cast bust of it, that would be "Unfair".
You're no Spike, LEH! Fair means not using completely busted strategies. I agree with you for the most part, but my definition is like this: Fair means decks that don't beg specific hate cards. Unfair means decks that rely on your opponent being unprepared game one. Unfair decks are the reason sideboards exist.
Examples of fair:
Zoo, Faeries, WRU variants, Delver,
Examples of unfair:
Bogles, Affinity, Twin, Storm, and anything with Tarmogoyf
When you know what Twin is trying to do when you sit down against them AND Twin's spot in the meta when you choose/build your deck then I think that makes twin a FAIR deck. Yes, it can be a combo deck. I just think "fair" and "unfair" are misnomers. Everything within the rules is fair. Some decks are combo, some control, some aggro, some midrange- all fair, in my opinion. And yes I know what is commonly meant by fair/unfair but as I said they are misnomers.
You're no Spike, LEH! Fair means not using completely busted strategies. I agree with you for the most part, but my definition is like this: Fair means decks that don't beg specific hate cards. Unfair means decks that rely on your opponent being unprepared game one. Unfair decks are the reason sideboards exist.
Examples of fair:
Zoo, Faeries, WRU variants, Delver,
Examples of unfair:
Bogles, Affinity, Twin, Storm, and anything with Tarmogoyf
you had me going till you ended with tarmogoyf whats unfair about a two mana creature with no ability? using your definition what do you specifically side for goyf grave hate, you kill me haha.
Ya goyf is a dumb card, 2 CMC for what is often a 3/4 or 4/5 is nuts. Its just too good for the value, now im not for banning it, but it does need another reprint, in a much more high release set to get that price down.
like what other creature that has basically not etb/ltb ability sees as much play as tarmo and has such a stupidly high real money cost on it?
I wouldnt be said to see it banned, it single handly kills so many other options to be played in so many other decks bc its CMC to power ratio is just bonkers.
No it shouldnt be banned but if it was, id shed exactly no tears.
Edit: but to get off the tarmo kicking trend, i really think Lingering Souls needs to be discussed. That card saw a TON of play this GP, even though it has basically been unseen in a long time. Y do people think it had such a powerful (and seemingly worhtwhile) resurgence? It single-handedly won quite a few games on camera and im sure had quite a share of wins off camera. Going forward, i think Lingering Souls needs to be relooked at, especially with the 2 affinity, 2 infect top 8ing, along with 3 rock decks, it looks like it is well positioned.
Has nothing to do with Goyfs price, I own 2 play sets. Its how the deck plays and can change gears mid game. I dont hate BGx, just dont feel its a completely fair deck like Zoo and other truly fair decks. They are not completely broken either like turn 2 storm or one card combos like scapeshift.
I don't see what's so unfair about being able to switch from beatdown to control, it's the inherent nature of a midrange deck to essentially play out opposite of whatever it's paired against.
I mean, it's what all "fair" decks ultimately strive for, the ability to win the game while maintaining some semblance of agency over the developing game. Without agency, you then have to seek to be something degenerate so as to deny your opponent's agency.
Affinity is about the line of unfair/fair. Jund is by far on the fair side.
Affinity is the most unfairest fair deck there is.
Bogle says hi!
Quote from DotMatrix »
I don't see what's so unfair about being able to switch from beatdown to control, it's the inherent nature of a midrange deck to essentially play out opposite of whatever it's paired against.
I mean, it's what all "fair" decks ultimately strive for, the ability to win the game while maintaining some semblance of agency over the developing game. Without agency, you then have to seek to be something degenerate so as to deny your opponent's agency.
The problem is the deck can change mid game. Other decks cant deal with that. Most other decks need to sideboard to change gears, GBx decks dont need to.
In general the problem with "changing gears" is that you can draw the wrong half of your deck for the given situation. you can draw aggro when you need control and draw control when you need aggro.
Rock is the fairest deck in modern it is the "fun" police, it helps balance the format. Sometimes they are going to thoughsieze, crack fetch, 3/4 tarmogoyf and it seems unfair when you are holding a lightning bolt.
I think we might see a resurgence of the Rock hate decks like Living end.
I can't wait to hear the obnoxiously ignorant Standard players at my LGS babble about how Modern is all BGx mirrors because they happened to be the final match.
GUYS I BARELY PAY ATTENTION TO MODERN AT ALL, BUT I SAW JUND PLAY JUNK AT A GP ONCE SO OBVIOUSLY THOSE ARE THE ONLY DECKS IN THE FORMAT
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
*Insert giant block of annoying garbage that no one cares about but you have to scroll past anyway here*
Anybody know where to find a video of Marc Tobiasch w/ blue moon vs. Andrew Bosnell w/ Junk Rock in the quarter finals, especially with commentary? G2 was the best game ever; I watched it live but there's no recording on wizards' event coverage site.
Funny when the best fair deck isn't blue and the best combo decks are blue.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Im actually a black mage. I enjoy killing stuff. Blue just happens to work well with it
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
For what its worth, Zoo is extremely fair. Most jund decks are too. They play by the rules, even if its their own powerful rules. If zoo runs Bloodbraid Elf, into Boom//Bust to cast bust of it, that would be "Unfair".
I really hope Wafo-Tapa will post his Esper Control list somewhere. Im really interested in that too.
In a game where we play 1 land a turn, and draw 1 card a turn, making infinite 2/1's or drawing your whole deck in one turn is fair to you?
Ok
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Examples of fair:
Zoo, Faeries, WRU variants, Delver,
Examples of unfair:
Bogles, Affinity, Twin, Storm, and anything with Tarmogoyf
you had me going till you ended with tarmogoyf whats unfair about a two mana creature with no ability? using your definition what do you specifically side for goyf grave hate, you kill me haha.
"I can't afford Tarmogoyf, therefore its unfair."
like what other creature that has basically not etb/ltb ability sees as much play as tarmo and has such a stupidly high real money cost on it?
I wouldnt be said to see it banned, it single handly kills so many other options to be played in so many other decks bc its CMC to power ratio is just bonkers.
No it shouldnt be banned but if it was, id shed exactly no tears.
Edit: but to get off the tarmo kicking trend, i really think Lingering Souls needs to be discussed. That card saw a TON of play this GP, even though it has basically been unseen in a long time. Y do people think it had such a powerful (and seemingly worhtwhile) resurgence? It single-handedly won quite a few games on camera and im sure had quite a share of wins off camera. Going forward, i think Lingering Souls needs to be relooked at, especially with the 2 affinity, 2 infect top 8ing, along with 3 rock decks, it looks like it is well positioned.
Has nothing to do with Goyfs price, I own 2 play sets. Its how the deck plays and can change gears mid game. I dont hate BGx, just dont feel its a completely fair deck like Zoo and other truly fair decks. They are not completely broken either like turn 2 storm or one card combos like scapeshift.
I mean, it's what all "fair" decks ultimately strive for, the ability to win the game while maintaining some semblance of agency over the developing game. Without agency, you then have to seek to be something degenerate so as to deny your opponent's agency.
Affinity is the most unfairest fair deck there is.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Bogle says hi!
The problem is the deck can change mid game. Other decks cant deal with that. Most other decks need to sideboard to change gears, GBx decks dont need to.
Rock is the fairest deck in modern it is the "fun" police, it helps balance the format. Sometimes they are going to thoughsieze, crack fetch, 3/4 tarmogoyf and it seems unfair when you are holding a lightning bolt.
I think we might see a resurgence of the Rock hate decks like Living end.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
GUYS I BARELY PAY ATTENTION TO MODERN AT ALL, BUT I SAW JUND PLAY JUNK AT A GP ONCE SO OBVIOUSLY THOSE ARE THE ONLY DECKS IN THE FORMAT