Well, the answer is right there... Fact or Fiction. They could just reprint that. That's a card that would give little to no benefit to combo decks while benefiting control decks. And considering just how many tools control is losing post rotation, they could really use a good card draw spell in Standard.
Um, have you ever cast fact or fiction in constructed? There is exactly zero chance it will ever come back into standard and I will make a Cedric Phillips cartwheel bet on that one, and be happy to lose mind you. FoF is way too good for standard and, while it would be an incredible boon to control in modern if it was a "modern core set" type of effect, I still think it might be too good considering how many places it will go into. But my god though, fof snapcaster fof sure does sound dreamy. Maybe if they banned snappy but gave us fof it might be fine, but I'm worried that losing snappy is too much of a blow for twin to stay tier 1 and that deck is too important to the format to be crushed that hard.
The idea that Fact or Fiction is "way too good for Standard" loses credibility when one considers that Thoughtseize was brought back. Actually, Thoughtseize coming back does that to a lot of cards people claim are too powerful for Standard. It's kind of like saying that buying a $2,000 computer is fine, but a $1,500 one is too much.
It's a good card. A great card, even. But I don't see it as breaking anything in Standard. And it definitely wouldn't be overpowered in Modern or go into that many decks. A 4-mana cantrip is generally only good for decks that want to play the long game, i.e. control decks. I doubt you'll see Splinter Twin playing it, for example.
It's not like Gifts Ungiven is tearing up the format.
There is a large difference between a cantrip and a raw card draw spell, though you do bring up some decent points. And the reason that gifts isn't kicking ass is not because of the mana cost, it's the deck construction. Half of the deck is dead or nearly dead in any given match. I'd be a little worried about the rock becoming BuG with the basic rock shell with fof jammed in there because it's amazing card advantage. No idea if that'd be a thing, but fof worries me none the less even though I'd love to break out the ones I've had in my collection since I played psychatog in standard. That's right. I did that.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
If they want to print Modern Worthy cards in new sets, all they really have to do is print something that would be totally busted in ANYTHING other than Standard; As a very loose example, a 1-drop Monk Realist effect in an Artifact Central Block. Sure, he gives you a small body, but in an artifact heavy block, he ain't doing much more. In Modern, he becomes a catch all answer (for that color) to cards like Blood Moon.
I do find it sad that they didn't give as a Delverish 1-drop Enchantment Creature in Theros. Cards like Ethereal Armor + Enchantment creatures could've been a thing, but the chance has passed.
Mind you, Theros was a Kamigawa esque block; both had 5 mana 2/1s....
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
I think this quote has some effect on the current situation. Im not saying anything violent will happen as a result of Modern getting stabbed in the back. But if Modern only players and people who only watch the PT's with Modern then players will just ignore standard and the PT's this year. It wont hurt Wizards in terms of money but its making a large portion of its player base pretty upset. It would look better on Wizards' part to come to a peaceful resolution and give modern some PT support of some kind this year rather than ignore the 90% of the people on Reddit/MTGS/Cockatrice/Twitter that are all hating on Wizards for doing this.
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Active Modern Decks
U Tron GW Bogles RG Loam UR Blue Breach RBU Grixis Goryo BRU Grixis Delver GBR Jund GBW Junk
Now, I just (JUST) recently got into Modern, but is it true that in order to qualify for PTQ, you have to play a PPTQ that's played in STANDARD? Because if that's so, that right there is just WRONG.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Now, I just (JUST) recently got into Modern, but is it true that in order to qualify for PTQ, you have to play a PPTQ that's played in STANDARD? Because if that's so, that right there is just WRONG.
Now that they changed it, the stores get to choose between Sealed, Standard, and Modern for their pptqs.
how much discussion has there been on the front of allowing planechase and commander product into the format? it would help to freshen the pool, and keep a stream of relevantly powerful cards coming into the format?
obviously cards that would be TOO powerful would have to kept out, but by and large, i'm sure the format would benefit a lot from this.
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Standard:
Nothing Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
how much discussion has there been on the front of allowing planechase and commander product into the format? it would help to freshen the pool, and keep a stream of relevantly powerful cards coming into the format?
obviously cards that would be TOO powerful would have to kept out, but by and large, i'm sure the format would benefit a lot from this.
As of now Wotc wants all cards to go through Standard.
I think Commandeer and Planeschase cards would push Modern a bit much. TNN anyone? For a format where AF said GSZ, JTMS, and SFM are in a grave for Modern, asking for Commandeer and Planeschase cards would be a bit much.
how much discussion has there been on the front of allowing planechase and commander product into the format? it would help to freshen the pool, and keep a stream of relevantly powerful cards coming into the format?
obviously cards that would be TOO powerful would have to kept out, but by and large, i'm sure the format would benefit a lot from this.
I for one wouldn't mind this at all. It would be the same solvent that legacy needed a bit ago, a way to introduce cards that are either super powerful (TNN) or too much value (baleful strix) to be in a standard legal set. I'm sure that if strix were modern legal it just might make esper control a thing.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
how much discussion has there been on the front of allowing planechase and commander product into the format? it would help to freshen the pool, and keep a stream of relevantly powerful cards coming into the format?
obviously cards that would be TOO powerful would have to kept out, but by and large, i'm sure the format would benefit a lot from this.
As of now Wotc wants all cards to go through Standard.
I think Commandeer and Planeschase cards would push Modern a bit much. TNN anyone? For a format where AF said GSZ, JTMS, and SFM are in a grave for Modern, asking for Commandeer and Planeschase cards would be a bit much.
Agreed. I would much prefer an alternative supplemental Modern product. Also, Wizards would then be able to support Legacy less if Modern was using Commander and Planechase because they would have to print less powerful cards.
When you ban controls best card (JTMS) and then keep it from getting any help this happens. Then power-leveling creatures over control in every new set you can't be surprised when control vanishes.
Firstly, JTMS is not any more powerful than Tarmogoyf/Confidant/Thoughtseize/Birthing Pod/Splinter Twin in their decks. He comes down turn 4 (the turn Twin usually wins on, pod starts going nuts, Tarmogoyf has beaten twice, and Storm can consistently go off) and either fateseals 1, unsummons 1 creature, or brainstorms. Explain to me how that is oppressive? I'm well aware of how good JTMS is, I played him a lot in Legacy, but when the combo decks can win on 4 how is he unfair?
If you expect parity, give every archetype the tools it needs to fight for itself.
Control does need some help especially in the diversity department and if jace was legal every control deck would look virtually indentical. But it's more likely the case that jace is probably just too dangerous for them to risk letting go of. Imagine the fallout wizards would get if they unban jace in modern and at the next modern GP it features 28 copies in the top 8. It would be a maelstrom of children's tears and human excrement whirling about more furiously than Sharknado Part 2 that they'll all have to wade through on their way to beg their boss to keep their jobs... Or they can just give us fact or fiction. Mize.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
When you ban controls best card (JTMS) and then keep it from getting any help this happens. Then power-leveling creatures over control in every new set you can't be surprised when control vanishes.
Firstly, JTMS is not any more powerful than Tarmogoyf/Confidant/Thoughtseize/Birthing Pod/Splinter Twin in their decks. He comes down turn 4 (the turn Twin usually wins on, pod starts going nuts, Tarmogoyf has beaten twice, and Storm can consistently go off) and either fateseals 1, unsummons 1 creature, or brainstorms. Explain to me how that is oppressive? I'm well aware of how good JTMS is, I played him a lot in Legacy, but when the combo decks can win on 4 how is he unfair?
If you expect parity, give every archetype the tools it needs to fight for itself.
The problem with Jace is that it would triple in price if it was unbanned and make all Control decks impossible for the average player to reasonably afford.
I have to agree that modern is pretty stale as a format. We've had 1 new "real deck" in the past year and a half in the form of blue moon?
Every other deck is either very fringey (amulet) or just an offshoot of an existing deck (jund evolving into BG).
I'm not surprised that they feel like the format is stale. Top 8 is consistently dominated by BGx and decks that beat BGx. and POD.
With that said, they have no one to blame but themselves.
Theros is a constructed stinker and they've been riding the flavor train for way too long. People don't play with cards from theros because theros sucks.
And the vibe that i'm getting is that instead of printing better cards, they're just going to remove modern from the equation so bad sets don't get thrown into the format to be fed to the lions in front of the cameras.
Uh hello? Maybe just make better sets. I don't think anyone here is asking for GG Tarmogoyfs. I just want cards that do things. You know like pyromancer ascension, birthing pod, unburial rites. Cards that actually create archetypes.
When you ban controls best card (JTMS) and then keep it from getting any help this happens. Then power-leveling creatures over control in every new set you can't be surprised when control vanishes.
Firstly, JTMS is not any more powerful than Tarmogoyf/Confidant/Thoughtseize/Birthing Pod/Splinter Twin in their decks. He comes down turn 4 (the turn Twin usually wins on, pod starts going nuts, Tarmogoyf has beaten twice, and Storm can consistently go off) and either fateseals 1, unsummons 1 creature, or brainstorms. Explain to me how that is oppressive? I'm well aware of how good JTMS is, I played him a lot in Legacy, but when the combo decks can win on 4 how is he unfair?
If you expect parity, give every archetype the tools it needs to fight for itself.
The problem with Jace is that it would triple in price if it was unbanned and make all Control decks impossible for the average player to reasonably afford.
The card would need a reprint if it were unbanned for certain.
Pure control will not be a tier-1 archetype in Modern until they have better card selection and/or better free counterspells. Incidentally I believe the lack of these is what also forces Wizards to use the banhammer so much to try to manage the format.
Pure control will not be a tier-1 archetype in Modern until they have better card selection and/or better free counterspells. Incidentally I believe the lack of these is what also forces Wizards to use the banhammer so much to try to manage the format.
Counterspells don't have to be free. Actual Counterspell would already be enough. Instead of this Mana Leak crap that is dead in the phase of the game where control should be at its strongest which is the late game.
Memory Lapse. Or a 3 mana hard counter that's actually playable and worth 3 mana. Counterspell would not help the format. I know I've said differently in the past, but I've thought a LOT about it and I realize it would be a mistake to reprint counterpsell.
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Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
I think there's a fair number of cards in Theros block that WotC expected would shake up Modern but they just slightly missed on them.
Thassa, Athreos, Master of Waves, Ashiok, Brimaz - I expect WotC believed each of those cards would see tier 1 Modern play, and costed them with that in mind. Maybe Fanatics of Mogis too. Thassa, Master and Brimaz have seen fringe play, Athreos and Ashiok have seen none, but that's WotC making a mistake, not trying not to make powerful cards.
WotC won't see innovation in Modern until the UB Mill deck is Tier 1.
Memory Lapse. Or a 3 mana hard counter that's actually playable and worth 3 mana. Counterspell would not help the format. I know I've said differently in the past, but I've thought a LOT about it and I realize it would be a mistake to reprint counterpsell.
Memory Lapse would be stronger in the format than Counterspell, which would be a marginal but occasionally played card. Lapse would be format-changing - eight copies of Remand in any deck that wants to play them. It is literally the same effect, just without each player drawing a card.
3 mana counters aren't getting played in Modern unless they do a lot more than just a counter effect. Absorb/Undermine would not get played and they are probably the best ones ever printed. You'd need something better.
If moderns is stale is because of standard. Theros block did almost nothing to modern because every interesting card was too overcosted do be of any use in modern.
There are really a lot of interesting cards wasted in theros that would be modern playable if they were 1CMC cheaper or had 1 more power and toughness.
While modern reached a decent level of diversity, it's development is being heavly hindered by standard. An whole block and we had not even 5 cards that are actually playable.
While the rule of thumb for Wizards dev team is "cut what is too good for standard" (one example is reprinting Liliana Vess instead of Liliana of the Veil on M15), modern will go nowhere.
If wizards want innovation and new decks to rise in modern, they need to give us decent new cards.
I think there's a fair number of cards in Theros block that WotC expected would shake up Modern but they just slightly missed on them.
Thassa, Athreos, Master of Waves, Ashiok, Brimaz - I expect WotC believed each of those cards would see tier 1 Modern play, and costed them with that in mind. Maybe Fanatics of Mogis too. Thassa, Master and Brimaz have seen fringe play, Athreos and Ashiok have seen none, but that's WotC making a mistake, not trying not to make powerful cards.
WotC won't see innovation in Modern until the UB Mill deck is Tier 1.
I do like the combo-esque mill deck in Modern. It's not good enough to even be tier 2, but it is hilariously funny.
There is something about your opponent cracking a fetchland end of your turn 1, you allowing it to happen, then thumping them with quadruple Archive Trap, with Pact of Negation backup having passed the turn without playing a land. Ridiculous Magical Christmasland scenario, but so funny the one time in a quarter million that it works that you remember it forever.
That awful deck is probably actually only one or two cards away from being playable.
Memory Lapse. Or a 3 mana hard counter that's actually playable and worth 3 mana. Counterspell would not help the format. I know I've said differently in the past, but I've thought a LOT about it and I realize it would be a mistake to reprint counterpsell.
Memory Lapse would be stronger in the format than Counterspell, which would be a marginal but occasionally played card. Lapse would be format-changing - eight copies of Remand in any deck that wants to play them. It is literally the same effect, just without each player drawing a card.
3 mana counters aren't getting played in Modern unless they do a lot more than just a counter effect. Absorb/Undermine would not get played and they are probably the best ones ever printed. You'd need something better.
If moderns is stale is because of standard. Theros block did almost nothing to modern because every interesting card was too overcosted do be of any use in modern.
There are really a lot of interesting cards wasted in theros that would be modern playable if they were 1CMC cheaper or had 1 more power and toughness.
While modern reached a decent level of diversity, it's development is being heavly hindered by standard. An whole block and we had not even 5 cards that are actually playable.
While the rule of thumb for Wizards dev team is "cut what is too good for standard" (one example is reprinting Liliana Vess instead of Liliana of the Veil on M15), modern will go nowhere.
If wizards want innovation and new decks to rise in modern, they need to give us decent new cards.
I think there's a fair number of cards in Theros block that WotC expected would shake up Modern but they just slightly missed on them.
Thassa, Athreos, Master of Waves, Ashiok, Brimaz - I expect WotC believed each of those cards would see tier 1 Modern play, and costed them with that in mind. Maybe Fanatics of Mogis too. Thassa, Master and Brimaz have seen fringe play, Athreos and Ashiok have seen none, but that's WotC making a mistake, not trying not to make powerful cards.
WotC won't see innovation in Modern until the UB Mill deck is Tier 1.
I do like the combo-esque mill deck in Modern. It's not good enough to even be tier 2, but it is hilariously funny.
There is something about your opponent cracking a fetchland end of your turn 1, you allowing it to happen, then thumping them with quadruple Archive Trap, with Pact of Negation backup having passed the turn without playing a land. Ridiculous Magical Christmasland scenario, but so funny the one time in a quarter million that it works that you remember it forever.
That awful deck is probably actually only one or two cards away from being playable.
And then your opponent is on GR Tron and reveals an Eldrazi and is all like
You mad, bro?
You know what two cards would bring Control and Aggro back into the fray? Back to Basics and Price of Progress. Modern manabases are insanely greedy. Problem solved Wotc.
I reallllly don't think those help control so much. I don't understand why people want them so bad. Price of progress is just insane with how good it is. Yes there needs to be more punishment for non-basics, but those are going overboard IMO.
I think PoP would help push burn into a real deck which would help punish Jund/Junk decks for their greedy manabases and self-damage (through bob) quite well.
I think Dissolve would be modern playable if it was Scry 2 or 3, i mean there is quite a bit of discussion of condescend being good bc of its scry 2 and for 1 more mana as a hard counter could make dissolve playable.
You know what two cards would bring Control and Aggro back into the fray? Back to Basics and Price of Progress. Modern manabases are insanely greedy. Problem solved Wotc.
I reallllly don't think those help control so much. I don't understand why people want them so bad. Price of progress is just insane with how good it is. Yes there needs to be more punishment for non-basics, but those are going overboard IMO.
If Back to Basics existed I could make something similar to Blue Moon in UB or WU.
There is a large difference between a cantrip and a raw card draw spell, though you do bring up some decent points. And the reason that gifts isn't kicking ass is not because of the mana cost, it's the deck construction. Half of the deck is dead or nearly dead in any given match. I'd be a little worried about the rock becoming BuG with the basic rock shell with fof jammed in there because it's amazing card advantage. No idea if that'd be a thing, but fof worries me none the less even though I'd love to break out the ones I've had in my collection since I played psychatog in standard. That's right. I did that.
I do find it sad that they didn't give as a Delverish 1-drop Enchantment Creature in Theros. Cards like Ethereal Armor + Enchantment creatures could've been a thing, but the chance has passed.
Mind you, Theros was a Kamigawa esque block; both had 5 mana 2/1s....
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I think this quote has some effect on the current situation. Im not saying anything violent will happen as a result of Modern getting stabbed in the back. But if Modern only players and people who only watch the PT's with Modern then players will just ignore standard and the PT's this year. It wont hurt Wizards in terms of money but its making a large portion of its player base pretty upset. It would look better on Wizards' part to come to a peaceful resolution and give modern some PT support of some kind this year rather than ignore the 90% of the people on Reddit/MTGS/Cockatrice/Twitter that are all hating on Wizards for doing this.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
Now that they changed it, the stores get to choose between Sealed, Standard, and Modern for their pptqs.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
obviously cards that would be TOO powerful would have to kept out, but by and large, i'm sure the format would benefit a lot from this.
Nothing
Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial
EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
As of now Wotc wants all cards to go through Standard.
I think Commandeer and Planeschase cards would push Modern a bit much. TNN anyone? For a format where AF said GSZ, JTMS, and SFM are in a grave for Modern, asking for Commandeer and Planeschase cards would be a bit much.
I for one wouldn't mind this at all. It would be the same solvent that legacy needed a bit ago, a way to introduce cards that are either super powerful (TNN) or too much value (baleful strix) to be in a standard legal set. I'm sure that if strix were modern legal it just might make esper control a thing.
Agreed. I would much prefer an alternative supplemental Modern product. Also, Wizards would then be able to support Legacy less if Modern was using Commander and Planechase because they would have to print less powerful cards.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Control does need some help especially in the diversity department and if jace was legal every control deck would look virtually indentical. But it's more likely the case that jace is probably just too dangerous for them to risk letting go of. Imagine the fallout wizards would get if they unban jace in modern and at the next modern GP it features 28 copies in the top 8. It would be a maelstrom of children's tears and human excrement whirling about more furiously than Sharknado Part 2 that they'll all have to wade through on their way to beg their boss to keep their jobs... Or they can just give us fact or fiction. Mize.
The problem with Jace is that it would triple in price if it was unbanned and make all Control decks impossible for the average player to reasonably afford.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Every other deck is either very fringey (amulet) or just an offshoot of an existing deck (jund evolving into BG).
I'm not surprised that they feel like the format is stale. Top 8 is consistently dominated by BGx and decks that beat BGx. and POD.
With that said, they have no one to blame but themselves.
Theros is a constructed stinker and they've been riding the flavor train for way too long. People don't play with cards from theros because theros sucks.
And the vibe that i'm getting is that instead of printing better cards, they're just going to remove modern from the equation so bad sets don't get thrown into the format to be fed to the lions in front of the cameras.
Uh hello? Maybe just make better sets. I don't think anyone here is asking for GG Tarmogoyfs. I just want cards that do things. You know like pyromancer ascension, birthing pod, unburial rites. Cards that actually create archetypes.
/rant
I like modern.
The card would need a reprint if it were unbanned for certain.
Counterspells don't have to be free. Actual Counterspell would already be enough. Instead of this Mana Leak crap that is dead in the phase of the game where control should be at its strongest which is the late game.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
WotC won't see innovation in Modern until the UB Mill deck is Tier 1.
Memory Lapse would be stronger in the format than Counterspell, which would be a marginal but occasionally played card. Lapse would be format-changing - eight copies of Remand in any deck that wants to play them. It is literally the same effect, just without each player drawing a card.
3 mana counters aren't getting played in Modern unless they do a lot more than just a counter effect. Absorb/Undermine would not get played and they are probably the best ones ever printed. You'd need something better.
I do like the combo-esque mill deck in Modern. It's not good enough to even be tier 2, but it is hilariously funny.
There is something about your opponent cracking a fetchland end of your turn 1, you allowing it to happen, then thumping them with quadruple Archive Trap, with Pact of Negation backup having passed the turn without playing a land. Ridiculous Magical Christmasland scenario, but so funny the one time in a quarter million that it works that you remember it forever.
That awful deck is probably actually only one or two cards away from being playable.
And then your opponent is on GR Tron and reveals an Eldrazi and is all like
You mad, bro?
I reallllly don't think those help control so much. I don't understand why people want them so bad. Price of progress is just insane with how good it is. Yes there needs to be more punishment for non-basics, but those are going overboard IMO.
I think Dissolve would be modern playable if it was Scry 2 or 3, i mean there is quite a bit of discussion of condescend being good bc of its scry 2 and for 1 more mana as a hard counter could make dissolve playable.
If Back to Basics existed I could make something similar to Blue Moon in UB or WU.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.