Could see play in a heavy pump soilder deck, bit thay would require better soldier tribal creatures. Also the two drop is kinda crowded for soilders and humans, and I don't think he beats the others.
It's meant as a bloodthirst enabler in M12 limited and nothing else.
Unfortunately there are no black bloodthirst cards worth playing in Modern (or, in fact, of any color). They're so bad, they could ETB with the +1/+1 counters regardless of whether you dealt damage or not, and still see zero or minimal play.
The main problem with bloodthirst is that it doesn't curve out well; if you have a 2-drop bloodthirster, then your 1-drop must be capable of triggering it. However, one-shot sorceries/instants like Taste of Blood can't do that. You need something like Seal of Fire, Rift Bolt, Goblin Fireslinger - something that you can cast on turn 1 and "pop" on turn 2 to turn on bloodthirst. Unfortunately all those cards are bad outside of triggering bloodthirst, and combined with the underwhelming rewards for actually achieving bloodthirst, that deck will never come to pass.
It's meant as a bloodthirst enabler in M12 limited and nothing else.
Unfortunately there are no black bloodthirst cards worth playing in Modern (or, in fact, of any color). They're so bad, they could ETB with the +1/+1 counters regardless of whether you dealt damage or not, and still see zero or minimal play.
The main problem with bloodthirst is that it doesn't curve out well; if you have a 2-drop bloodthirster, then your 1-drop must be capable of triggering it. However, one-shot sorceries/instants like Taste of Blood can't do that. You need something like Seal of Fire, Rift Bolt, Goblin Fireslinger - something that you can cast on turn 1 and "pop" on turn 2 to turn on bloodthirst. Unfortunately all those cards are bad outside of triggering bloodthirst, and combined with the underwhelming rewards for actually achieving bloodthirst, that deck will never come to pass.
Be a lemming hunter. Don't be a lemming. Really, all you had to do was explain to him the popularity metric, not give him the lemming hunter manifesto...
After having a "Taste" of such a crappy RCD on Thursday, it's nice to finish the weak strong with something more interesting. Coat has always been a casual staple, and although the effect is powerful, it hasn't seen much competitive success. If you are behind, Coat doesn't do anything, which is a big problem for its cost. If you are ahead in the sort of deck that would abuse Coat, you should be winning without the 5 mana investment. For aggressive decks, Shared Animosity is often going to be better (at least if you can run Red). For less aggressive decks, Coat often won't have enough guys in play to be worth the price. And in all cases, it's still competing with Modern's other anthem effects which tend to be much cheaper, even if not as powerful (Honor of the Pure). If something as awesome as Animosity or Tempered Steel doesn't see play, it's unlikely Coat will either.
Shut up, I killed people with 6/6 flying vigs for 5 mana. Betta respect. And this was before people knew to play terror. So my Worship won me all the games.
In retrospect I should NOT have traded away Serra's Sanctum. Things I regret.
Back on topic. Dude coat brings back all the memories. I mean now we got Adaptive Automaton, but heres what coat has over that. Goblin Shaman with another goblin warrior, and a treefolk shaman, all get 2/2. Coat is still lord effect on crack. Hell, even with 5 elves its 5/5 on each. Eat your heart out craterhoof.
Now I'm not suggesting elves do that over ya know, fireball and stuff. but it'd be pretty chill to do it.
Agreed, as it doesn't give your opponent anything. I think the biggest issue with cards like these are they are pure win more. I have never been able to dig my way out of a hole with Coat of Arms, and usually when I saw it I always wished it were something different.
Now in Multi man it can set you up to alpha strike the whole field in one large attack, so I do still consider it there.
Relic already sees Modern play in a few decks, so this is the rare RCD that doesn't need do to too much explaining of its utility. The one area where I think Relic could see more play is in tandem with Trinket Mage, a toolbox strategy that has not done well in Modern despite it appearing to be fairly strong in the format. Sure, Trinket-based control would have issues with aggro out of the gates, but you could easily splash another color to handle that (and get more mileage out of Explosives!). Relic would undoubtedly go in such a deck.
Relic already sees Modern play in a few decks, so this is the rare RCD that doesn't need do to too much explaining of its utility. The one area where I think Relic could see more play is in tandem with Trinket Mage, a toolbox strategy that has not done well in Modern despite it appearing to be fairly strong in the format. Sure, Trinket-based control would have issues with aggro out of the gates, but you could easily splash another color to handle that (and get more mileage out of Explosives!). Relic would undoubtedly go in such a deck.
I want to take your comment on Trinket Mage, and then totally derail this CotD discussion into a card I really think deserves more love: Artificer's Intuition.
But I'll just wait and hope for Gatherer to do the job for me. In the meantime, Relic. What to say? It's a one shot effect. It's a deterrent of sorts, doesn't go for the lasting gravehate like RIP does, but it can erode a graveyard. Having recently experienced a matchup of my Boros vs an Obliterator Rock deck, I can say this: getting pinned under Scavenging Ooze when your grave is empty and you're trying to fuel a Grim Lavamancer but can't grave more cards than that Scooze can eat? It sucks. Relic may only do one card at a time, but I feel like a similar case of harassment can unfold.
That said, I'm actually of the opinion that it's (for my purposes, which shouldn't be confused with a general assessment of its overall value) bad because it's a oneshot effect. I mean, that one shot drags everything back to zero, but I'm of the school of thought that lasting hate has more oomph than a powerful single shot. It's all context in the end, but I'll find myself playing cards like Rest in Peace if I can before Relic. And maybe Nihil Spellbomb too, if only because NihilBomb has more potential for abuse than Relic does, the latter kinda shooting itself in the foot in that department by playing nice and exiling itself when it goes boom.
Still a great addition to the sizable suite of gravehate. Incidentally, you ever notice just how much of the rank and file gravehate played in Eternal formats appears to be Modern legal? The only exception I can think of right now is that one-mana Black enchantment whose name escapes me currently...
Relic already sees Modern play in a few decks, so this is the rare RCD that doesn't need do to too much explaining of its utility. The one area where I think Relic could see more play is in tandem with Trinket Mage, a toolbox strategy that has not done well in Modern despite it appearing to be fairly strong in the format. Sure, Trinket-based control would have issues with aggro out of the gates, but you could easily splash another color to handle that (and get more mileage out of Explosives!). Relic would undoubtedly go in such a deck.
I want to take your comment on Trinket Mage, and then totally derail this CotD discussion into a card I really think deserves more love: Artificer's Intuition.
But I'll just wait and hope for Gatherer to do the job for me. In the meantime, Relic. What to say? It's a one shot effect. It's a deterrent of sorts, doesn't go for the lasting gravehate like RIP does, but it can erode a graveyard. Having recently experienced a matchup of my Boros vs an Obliterator Rock deck, I can say this: getting pinned under Scavenging Ooze when your grave is empty and you're trying to fuel a Grim Lavamancer but can't grave more cards than that Scooze can eat? It sucks. Relic may only do one card at a time, but I feel like a similar case of harassment can unfold.
That said, I'm actually of the opinion that it's (for my purposes, which shouldn't be confused with a general assessment of its overall value) bad because it's a oneshot effect. I mean, that one shot drags everything back to zero, but I'm of the school of thought that lasting hate has more oomph than a powerful single shot. It's all context in the end, but I'll find myself playing cards like Rest in Peace if I can before Relic. And maybe Nihil Spellbomb too, if only because NihilBomb has more potential for abuse than Relic does, the latter kinda shooting itself in the foot in that department by playing nice and exiling itself when it goes boom.
Still a great addition to the sizable suite of gravehate. Incidentally, you ever notice just how much of the rank and file gravehate played in Eternal formats appears to be Modern legal? The only exception I can think of right now is that one-mana Black enchantment whose name escapes me currently...
Be a lemming hunter. Don't be a lemming. Really, all you had to do was explain to him the popularity metric, not give him the lemming hunter manifesto...
Yeah, Planar Void.
It's like, other than that, we've got the same pool as Legacy.
And Wizards still doesn't want us to bear the "burden" of dealing with the dredge subgame...
Ah, but that's a rant for the ban discussion thread...
Relic already sees Modern play in a few decks, so this is the rare RCD that doesn't need do to too much explaining of its utility. The one area where I think Relic could see more play is in tandem with Trinket Mage, a toolbox strategy that has not done well in Modern despite it appearing to be fairly strong in the format. Sure, Trinket-based control would have issues with aggro out of the gates, but you could easily splash another color to handle that (and get more mileage out of Explosives!). Relic would undoubtedly go in such a deck.
I want to take your comment on Trinket Mage, and then totally derail this CotD discussion into a card I really think deserves more love: Artificer's Intuition.
But I'll just wait and hope for Gatherer to do the job for me. In the meantime, Relic. What to say? It's a one shot effect. It's a deterrent of sorts, doesn't go for the lasting gravehate like RIP does, but it can erode a graveyard. Having recently experienced a matchup of my Boros vs an Obliterator Rock deck, I can say this: getting pinned under Scavenging Ooze when your grave is empty and you're trying to fuel a Grim Lavamancer but can't grave more cards than that Scooze can eat? It sucks. Relic may only do one card at a time, but I feel like a similar case of harassment can unfold.
That said, I'm actually of the opinion that it's (for my purposes, which shouldn't be confused with a general assessment of its overall value) bad because it's a oneshot effect. I mean, that one shot drags everything back to zero, but I'm of the school of thought that lasting hate has more oomph than a powerful single shot. It's all context in the end, but I'll find myself playing cards like Rest in Peace if I can before Relic. And maybe Nihil Spellbomb too, if only because NihilBomb has more potential for abuse than Relic does, the latter kinda shooting itself in the foot in that department by playing nice and exiling itself when it goes boom.
Still a great addition to the sizable suite of gravehate. Incidentally, you ever notice just how much of the rank and file gravehate played in Eternal formats appears to be Modern legal? The only exception I can think of right now is that one-mana Black enchantment whose name escapes me currently...
I personally think that, while Relic isn't perfect, for decks that can't play Rest in Peace either because they use their own graveyard or because they aren't white, Relic is the next best option. Since that is most decks in Modern, I don't see what the problem is with it.
Relic gets widespread play for two main reasons:
1. It's colorless, making it available to decks that otherwise wouldn't have great grave hate (particularly red and blue)
2. It cantrips, so it replaces itself if it's dead for whatever reason and is even maindeckable in a deck like Tron.
I would rather than Surgical Extraction over Relic of Progenitus. Both are one shot effects and Extraction will cost you 2 life most of the time but not hitting your own yard and getting the surprise value out of your card makes it way better in my opinion.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
I would rather than Surgical Extraction over Relic of Progenitus. Both are one shot effects and Extraction will cost you 2 life most of the time but not hitting your own yard and getting the surprise value out of your card makes it way better in my opinion.
Surgical only removing 1 card in the graveyard is problematic. That just isn't good enough against Storm, Living End, Goyf-based decks, and Snapcaster decks.
It also let's you get rid of all copies of that card though. I'm playing RWU myself so it always shocks me. It's useless against goyf nine times out of 10 sure but I'm not bringing it in against those decks anyways. Against storm it's situational but i've got 3 counterfluxes for storm and 3 removal for the ascension(not counting countering it or bouncing with command) so i'm not too worried. Against snap it's fine, just exile their target and then gain knowledge of their hand. It's probably terrible against living end, it looks terrible on paper but that deck is pretty rare(i've literally never had to play against it personally). Idk maybe I'm in the minority or maybe I just value my own snapcasters too highly but I don't think the card is very good.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Relic of Progenitus is a very good card to have in a BGx heavy meta, because if you have it in play, it means that any of your 1/Xs is able to trade with a Tarmogoyf, and if you're playing red (and most decks that maindeck Relic do, it appears), you can use it to sweep the board of any and all Goyfs with a Pyroclasm.
The cantripping effect is really useful.
I tend to play decks that want to utilize the graveyard, so I don't typically play Relic, but it's a very useful card in the right deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Always loved this card and wished it worked as well in practice as it does on paper. It's basically Tendrils of Agony! As a creature. With 2 toughness. That you need to play BEFORE your spell chain instead of after. But hey, if we can't have Tendrils then I guess we are stuck with Gutter. The two ways I have seen this guy used are as an actual combo engine, similar to Electromancer, and as a dude who just adds additional value to your burn spells. I don't think there's a lot of reason to use this card in the format, but it gives a brewer lots of cool ideas.
It is another creature made ineffective by the strangle hold that lightning bolt has on the format. You just cannot rely on 3< critters to win you games.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Taste of Blood!
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Sooner or later, we were bound to get our first truly crappy card. At least we had a string of interesting ones beforehand!
/graspingatstraws.
Unfortunately there are no black bloodthirst cards worth playing in Modern (or, in fact, of any color). They're so bad, they could ETB with the +1/+1 counters regardless of whether you dealt damage or not, and still see zero or minimal play.
The main problem with bloodthirst is that it doesn't curve out well; if you have a 2-drop bloodthirster, then your 1-drop must be capable of triggering it. However, one-shot sorceries/instants like Taste of Blood can't do that. You need something like Seal of Fire, Rift Bolt, Goblin Fireslinger - something that you can cast on turn 1 and "pop" on turn 2 to turn on bloodthirst. Unfortunately all those cards are bad outside of triggering bloodthirst, and combined with the underwhelming rewards for actually achieving bloodthirst, that deck will never come to pass.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Stormblood Berserker isn't that bad in Modern. I've seen it in Burn before.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Be a lemming hunter. Don't be a lemming.
Really, all you had to do was explain to him the popularity metric, not give him the lemming hunter manifesto...
Originally posted by MemoryLapse and DotMatrix
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Coat of Arms!
-------------------------------------------------------------
After having a "Taste" of such a crappy RCD on Thursday, it's nice to finish the weak strong with something more interesting. Coat has always been a casual staple, and although the effect is powerful, it hasn't seen much competitive success. If you are behind, Coat doesn't do anything, which is a big problem for its cost. If you are ahead in the sort of deck that would abuse Coat, you should be winning without the 5 mana investment. For aggressive decks, Shared Animosity is often going to be better (at least if you can run Red). For less aggressive decks, Coat often won't have enough guys in play to be worth the price. And in all cases, it's still competing with Modern's other anthem effects which tend to be much cheaper, even if not as powerful (Honor of the Pure). If something as awesome as Animosity or Tempered Steel doesn't see play, it's unlikely Coat will either.
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
Pump the... Angels. Because Serra should be a 5/5.
Listen... I was 12. I only had Serra and Serra Advocate among all my non angel Serra stuff.
Shut up, I killed people with 6/6 flying vigs for 5 mana. Betta respect. And this was before people knew to play terror. So my Worship won me all the games.
In retrospect I should NOT have traded away Serra's Sanctum. Things I regret.
Back on topic. Dude coat brings back all the memories. I mean now we got Adaptive Automaton, but heres what coat has over that. Goblin Shaman with another goblin warrior, and a treefolk shaman, all get 2/2. Coat is still lord effect on crack. Hell, even with 5 elves its 5/5 on each. Eat your heart out craterhoof.
Now I'm not suggesting elves do that over ya know, fireball and stuff. but it'd be pretty chill to do it.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Now in Multi man it can set you up to alpha strike the whole field in one large attack, so I do still consider it there.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Relic of Progenitus!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Relic already sees Modern play in a few decks, so this is the rare RCD that doesn't need do to too much explaining of its utility. The one area where I think Relic could see more play is in tandem with Trinket Mage, a toolbox strategy that has not done well in Modern despite it appearing to be fairly strong in the format. Sure, Trinket-based control would have issues with aggro out of the gates, but you could easily splash another color to handle that (and get more mileage out of Explosives!). Relic would undoubtedly go in such a deck.
I want to take your comment on Trinket Mage, and then totally derail this CotD discussion into a card I really think deserves more love: Artificer's Intuition.
But I'll just wait and hope for Gatherer to do the job for me. In the meantime, Relic. What to say? It's a one shot effect. It's a deterrent of sorts, doesn't go for the lasting gravehate like RIP does, but it can erode a graveyard. Having recently experienced a matchup of my Boros vs an Obliterator Rock deck, I can say this: getting pinned under Scavenging Ooze when your grave is empty and you're trying to fuel a Grim Lavamancer but can't grave more cards than that Scooze can eat? It sucks. Relic may only do one card at a time, but I feel like a similar case of harassment can unfold.
That said, I'm actually of the opinion that it's (for my purposes, which shouldn't be confused with a general assessment of its overall value) bad because it's a oneshot effect. I mean, that one shot drags everything back to zero, but I'm of the school of thought that lasting hate has more oomph than a powerful single shot. It's all context in the end, but I'll find myself playing cards like Rest in Peace if I can before Relic. And maybe Nihil Spellbomb too, if only because NihilBomb has more potential for abuse than Relic does, the latter kinda shooting itself in the foot in that department by playing nice and exiling itself when it goes boom.
Still a great addition to the sizable suite of gravehate. Incidentally, you ever notice just how much of the rank and file gravehate played in Eternal formats appears to be Modern legal? The only exception I can think of right now is that one-mana Black enchantment whose name escapes me currently...
Planar Void?
Be a lemming hunter. Don't be a lemming.
Really, all you had to do was explain to him the popularity metric, not give him the lemming hunter manifesto...
Originally posted by MemoryLapse and DotMatrix
It's like, other than that, we've got the same pool as Legacy.
And Wizards still doesn't want us to bear the "burden" of dealing with the dredge subgame...
Ah, but that's a rant for the ban discussion thread...
I personally think that, while Relic isn't perfect, for decks that can't play Rest in Peace either because they use their own graveyard or because they aren't white, Relic is the next best option. Since that is most decks in Modern, I don't see what the problem is with it.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
1. It's colorless, making it available to decks that otherwise wouldn't have great grave hate (particularly red and blue)
2. It cantrips, so it replaces itself if it's dead for whatever reason and is even maindeckable in a deck like Tron.
Regarding running a 4-color deck without fetchlands:
MostlyLost on Cockatrice.
Surgical only removing 1 card in the graveyard is problematic. That just isn't good enough against Storm, Living End, Goyf-based decks, and Snapcaster decks.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
The cantripping effect is really useful.
I tend to play decks that want to utilize the graveyard, so I don't typically play Relic, but it's a very useful card in the right deck.
Guttersnipe!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Always loved this card and wished it worked as well in practice as it does on paper. It's basically Tendrils of Agony! As a creature. With 2 toughness. That you need to play BEFORE your spell chain instead of after. But hey, if we can't have Tendrils then I guess we are stuck with Gutter. The two ways I have seen this guy used are as an actual combo engine, similar to Electromancer, and as a dude who just adds additional value to your burn spells. I don't think there's a lot of reason to use this card in the format, but it gives a brewer lots of cool ideas.