so the channel fireball list beats people to death with conclaves in a WUR tempo shell? are you serious?
I mean, it makes fatestitcher or conclave a 20+ power dude and in the process finds another fatestitcher to tap the opponent out with so it can attack for the win. It's not really a tempo deck, though a plan B is conclave beatdown I suppose. It's much closer to Scapeshift than tempo - the control cards just buy it time, especially against what would otherwise be an awful matchup, Delver.
I will remind you that the deck doesn't actually break the hard rules of modern though people had feared that it would, this version is slower but more resilient. I think people will adapt keep in mind that it seems soft to anyone going under them (like storm) and there as no affinity at all in this tournament.
I will still reserve judgement, lets see what happens by the time we get to PT fate reforged or when the set is released and the banning happens. Maybe its TC and DTT that needs the chop and not the Ascendancy.
Love that Willy Edel is doing well with Junk, another dude who actually plays the modern format and with a deck that is not 'breaking the format' according to the sensationalists.
Worlds (in the context of deck strength) is fun to watch but not really meaningful.
Its 24 people guessing what they are going to see and try to mind game the field or picking a deck they know/think is good and rolling the dice. It really has no relevance to the modern meta as a whole or the actual real strength of the deck itself.
This is proven by the fact there is NO twin in the meta at all yet it is a huge portion of the meta and easily one of the most consistent decks out there with countless top 16/8/wins in major events.
I'm disappointed from the low Uwr conrol/midrange presence.
All went for Ur delver or Ascendancy letting behind perfect strong decks like Uwr control and mid, Affinity or Twin. This Modern wolrd cup looks like a testing field to me
I think UWR Control (I am not counting McLaren's trainwreck) would have done well here, especially with Geist in the SB.
absolutly...and i agree about McLaren's... u.ù he can make me bored watcihng my favorite archetype in action, no comment.
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My Decks on Paper: UWR Control/Midrange/Delver UWR Twin Miss you GBWJunk (still semi-budget; 3 tarmo only) GWAura Hexproof GWHatebears
I'm I the only one who finds the coverage lacking as hell? They keep flipping the camera around to show the players faces or the seating area and when you get back to the table and the match you've missed like 3-4 turns....? I mean, what's even the point of having it on camera if you're not going to show it? I prefer SCGs camera work of just straight above the players and in a lot of cases you even get to see their hands. And the commentators wizards use could be better, they are mostly reacting to what the players are doing, which is fine I guess (and probably needed since you can't see the game half the time). Simon was pretty good I think though.
Worlds (in the context of deck strength) is fun to watch but not really meaningful.
Its 24 people guessing what they are going to see and try to mind game the field or picking a deck they know/think is good and rolling the dice. It really has no relevance to the modern meta as a whole or the actual real strength of the deck itself.
This is proven by the fact there is NO twin in the meta at all yet it is a huge portion of the meta and easily one of the most consistent decks out there with countless top 16/8/wins in major events.
I think that Worlds looks more like a nutty FNM testing ground is AMAZING. Not even the Pros know how to nail down the format right now.
They cut modern off of pro tours and high-profile events because it was too boring apparently, so look at it now. For every deck that's been around since the beginning there is a deck that hasn't really existed since the last two months AND dead archetypes--makes legacy and standard look boring to me.
Although this event has given me the itch to play Storm again even though I know it is still bad (storm went 5-7). However, I think Finkel's MB from his list back in Feb is better than any of these (Treasure Cruise seems so bad in these lists), obv Finkel's SB would have to be updated.
Although this event has given me the itch to play Storm again even though I know it is still bad (storm went 5-7). However, I think Finkel's MB from his list back in Feb is better than any of these (Treasure Cruise seems so bad in these lists), obv Finkel's SB would have to be updated.
I agree with almost everything you said but I disagree that Storm is bad. I saw some missplays on camera and some of the CFB players didn't seem to be comfortable with Storm.
They've all had experience playing Storm before. Duke and Jensen played Storm at PT RTR (each finished with 18 points in the Modern rounds), and Turtenwald played Storm at GP Kansas City (finished with 30 points).
Although this event has given me the itch to play Storm again even though I know it is still bad (storm went 5-7). However, I think Finkel's MB from his list back in Feb is better than any of these (Treasure Cruise seems so bad in these lists), obv Finkel's SB would have to be updated.
I agree with almost everything you said but I disagree that Storm is bad. I saw some missplays on camera and some of the CFB players didn't seem to be comfortable with Storm.
Between the JA and the Storm it looked to me like a lot of the top pro's think Modern is all about uninteractive combo. Interesting how the matches turned out for the ones who went that route.
Although this event has given me the itch to play Storm again even though I know it is still bad (storm went 5-7). However, I think Finkel's MB from his list back in Feb is better than any of these (Treasure Cruise seems so bad in these lists), obv Finkel's SB would have to be updated.
I agree with almost everything you said but I disagree that Storm is bad. I saw some missplays on camera and some of the CFB players didn't seem to be comfortable with Storm.
Between the JA and the Storm it looked to me like a lot of the top pro's think Modern is all about uninteractive combo. Interesting how the matches turned out for the ones who went that route.
That's more about the tourney itself and the style than the quality of the decks. Choosing a deck that has a high skill cap and very specific answers to be beaten is a good choice in a small group with an unknown meta
Although this event has given me the itch to play Storm again even though I know it is still bad (storm went 5-7). However, I think Finkel's MB from his list back in Feb is better than any of these (Treasure Cruise seems so bad in these lists), obv Finkel's SB would have to be updated.
I agree with almost everything you said but I disagree that Storm is bad. I saw some missplays on camera and some of the CFB players didn't seem to be comfortable with Storm.
Between the JA and the Storm it looked to me like a lot of the top pro's think Modern is all about uninteractive combo. Interesting how the matches turned out for the ones who went that route.
It's probably because it's a small event. They'd probably play different decks at a GP/PT.
And I dunno if he wasn't feeling it or if he was tired but Reid seemed to be displeased on camera. I thought it was because he wasn't happy with the deck but I'm probably wrong since all of them have experience with Storm.
I think that Worlds looks more like a nutty FNM testing ground is AMAZING. Not even the Pros know how to nail down the format right now.
They cut modern off of pro tours and high-profile events because it was too boring apparently, so look at it now. For every deck that's been around since the beginning there is a deck that hasn't really existed since the last two months AND dead archetypes--makes legacy and standard look boring to me.
This is the best assessment, and most succinct, that I have ever heard about Worlds. It really IS a nutty FNM, both in terms of insularity, and in terms of size. And as anyone who plays FNM knows, an FNM metagame can be very different from the wider paper metagame, just because of structure and player/deck familiarity.
[quote from="Aazadan »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/580304-worlds-2014-modern-discussion?comment=105"]
It's probably because it's a small event. They'd probably play different decks at a GP/PT.
And I dunno if he wasn't feeling it or if he was tired but Reid seemed to be displeased on camera. I thought it was because he wasn't happy with the deck but I'm probably wrong since all of them have experience with Storm.
I can understand a small event, with a small number of rounds there's a real advantage to playing something with a good game 1, that just occasionally spikes games 2 and 3. I totally understand the reasoning for JA and Storm I just don't happen to agree with it. If I were playing Worlds I think my deck of choice would be Grixis Delver hedging on the idea that I could dodge aggressive decks due to the metagame and preferences of those involved while getting all of the advantages of UR Delver plus hand disruption.
[quote from="hittheroadjack »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/580304-worlds-2014-modern-discussion?comment=69"]Back from work and watching the replays... Jesus, some appaling mistakes on camera.
You realise the win rate for storm on turn 3 is like 20% right?
Paulo took a calculated risk. The odds of him having a turn 3 kill 2 games in a row is Less than 10%.
That ascendancy deck is the real deal. Half their losses were to Storm. Which is not popular, and can go off faster. And its INSANELY hard to play.
I wouldnt be surprised if it was broken. It is super strong.
He took an unnecessary risk both games - and, to me, 20% is a pretty big chance to take when you can just sit behind a wall of disruption and go off on a single turn later. game 1, he was sitting on an izzet charm and a remand; game 2, he had a remand and a swan song - he could just bid his time, disrupting Owen when necessary, and then go off at once. It's like tapping out turn 3 against twin - sure, the majority of time they won't go eot pestermite/main phase twin, but it's still dumb to tap out when you're sitting on disruption and under no pressure.
The new ascendancy deck without green looks needlessly complicated and difficult to play. It's basically the same idea as twin, except it can maybe win through a single removal spell. I don't know if I like it or not, after all I worked with 'lark combo in modern just to be needlessly complicated before.
The list kind of reminds me of doomsday in the sense that doomsday is very complicated but can win despite hate. This seems similar.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage WWhite Trash
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Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
I mean, it makes fatestitcher or conclave a 20+ power dude and in the process finds another fatestitcher to tap the opponent out with so it can attack for the win. It's not really a tempo deck, though a plan B is conclave beatdown I suppose. It's much closer to Scapeshift than tempo - the control cards just buy it time, especially against what would otherwise be an awful matchup, Delver.
All I can find is this and that seems to just be the Vintage Masters draft part.
PVDDR vs Turtenwald
Tom Martell's Deck Tech
Gonna link the Martell v. Jensen match in a bit.
Tom Martell v. Jensen at around 22:00 min mark.
UB Fae
TES
Pox
I will still reserve judgement, lets see what happens by the time we get to PT fate reforged or when the set is released and the banning happens. Maybe its TC and DTT that needs the chop and not the Ascendancy.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
...alright well good luck to you sir.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
i'm at work and can only glimpse what's happening through these forums, but i still like to check every couple of hours.
pretty please?
Its 24 people guessing what they are going to see and try to mind game the field or picking a deck they know/think is good and rolling the dice. It really has no relevance to the modern meta as a whole or the actual real strength of the deck itself.
This is proven by the fact there is NO twin in the meta at all yet it is a huge portion of the meta and easily one of the most consistent decks out there with countless top 16/8/wins in major events.
absolutly...and i agree about McLaren's... u.ù he can make me bored watcihng my favorite archetype in action, no comment.
UWR Control/Midrange/Delver
UWR TwinMiss youGBWJunk (still semi-budget; 3 tarmo only)
GWAura Hexproof
GWHatebears
I think that Worlds looks more like a nutty FNM testing ground is AMAZING. Not even the Pros know how to nail down the format right now.
They cut modern off of pro tours and high-profile events because it was too boring apparently, so look at it now. For every deck that's been around since the beginning there is a deck that hasn't really existed since the last two months AND dead archetypes--makes legacy and standard look boring to me.
Although this event has given me the itch to play Storm again even though I know it is still bad (storm went 5-7). However, I think Finkel's MB from his list back in Feb is better than any of these (Treasure Cruise seems so bad in these lists), obv Finkel's SB would have to be updated.
I agree with almost everything you said but I disagree that Storm is bad. I saw some missplays on camera and some of the CFB players didn't seem to be comfortable with Storm.
UB Fae
TES
Pox
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Between the JA and the Storm it looked to me like a lot of the top pro's think Modern is all about uninteractive combo. Interesting how the matches turned out for the ones who went that route.
That's more about the tourney itself and the style than the quality of the decks. Choosing a deck that has a high skill cap and very specific answers to be beaten is a good choice in a small group with an unknown meta
It's probably because it's a small event. They'd probably play different decks at a GP/PT.
And I dunno if he wasn't feeling it or if he was tired but Reid seemed to be displeased on camera. I thought it was because he wasn't happy with the deck but I'm probably wrong since all of them have experience with Storm.
UB Fae
TES
Pox
This is the best assessment, and most succinct, that I have ever heard about Worlds. It really IS a nutty FNM, both in terms of insularity, and in terms of size. And as anyone who plays FNM knows, an FNM metagame can be very different from the wider paper metagame, just because of structure and player/deck familiarity.
I can understand a small event, with a small number of rounds there's a real advantage to playing something with a good game 1, that just occasionally spikes games 2 and 3. I totally understand the reasoning for JA and Storm I just don't happen to agree with it. If I were playing Worlds I think my deck of choice would be Grixis Delver hedging on the idea that I could dodge aggressive decks due to the metagame and preferences of those involved while getting all of the advantages of UR Delver plus hand disruption.
He took an unnecessary risk both games - and, to me, 20% is a pretty big chance to take when you can just sit behind a wall of disruption and go off on a single turn later. game 1, he was sitting on an izzet charm and a remand; game 2, he had a remand and a swan song - he could just bid his time, disrupting Owen when necessary, and then go off at once. It's like tapping out turn 3 against twin - sure, the majority of time they won't go eot pestermite/main phase twin, but it's still dumb to tap out when you're sitting on disruption and under no pressure.
The list kind of reminds me of doomsday in the sense that doomsday is very complicated but can win despite hate. This seems similar.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash