Who's to say it isn't? Perhaps not right now, since Modern's faster than it's ever been before, but I doubt there'll never be a place for Ugin somewhere in the format.
The difference between 7 and 8 mana is huge. It could mean stabilizing or death. It's one turn of a difference. It's also hoping your opponent stumbles while you rack those lands up.
And the speed of the format. What Tron wants is a weapon that is cheaper, not more expensive to cast at this moment. Ceteris paribus, it's hard to see Tron being good in this format. It's decent at best.
Ah so its not a real reprint, but it is a way to keep the supply up. Cost sustaining rather than cutting. Smart.
While it is good they are doing that, I much rather preferred a true-mirror to RTR block. Onslaught fetches in Khans of Tarkir, Zendikar fetches in Fate Reforged, and then a chance to pull any of the 10 fetches in Dragons of Tarkir. But I guess with Fate being a small set that won't work out so well. Therefore the third set better have Zendikar fetches.
So, can anybody tell me what matchups Ugin will be improving and how this will help Tron? The card is absolutely bombastic, and I really want it to be playable, but I can think of many decks that I want Ugin against considering the standardized list.
Spirit Dragon looks awesome in against Junk and Pod, but these are already favorable matchups. The exile effect would be really helpful against Boggles. He doesn't help me find Tron. He doesn't help me play around hate in a timely manner. He doesn't help me recover after I just got Tec Edge'd. He isn't very good with a blood moon on the table. He doesn't help me when I'm on 6 life and it's Turn 4 against red decks. He doesn't disrupt scapeshfit. 8 mana is way to slow against Burn, maybe a little more useful against Delver. The sorcery speed is terrible against Jeskai Ascendancy and Storm. He doesn't do anything about Twin combos. Obv bad against affinity. Irrelevant against infect. Am I missing anything here?
My prediction: Ugin will spur new found interest in Tron decks and will undoubtedly find his way into some lists (some may even be successful), but Spirit Dragon will not improve Trons bad matchups or remedy its current problems. The deck needs ways to improve its consistency, ease the pain of disruption, stabilize against fast aggro/red decks, or disrupt faster combo decks. I really do want to live the dream of T3 Karn, T4 Ugin. Too cool.
...Yeah, Ugin roasts Bogles compared to Karn/O. Stone/Wurmcoil Engine. Ugin's also better against Living End than Karn/O. Stone is, although Wurmcoil blocks Living End's guys a lot of times.
Ugin's actually not that bad against Affinity--he performs about as poorly as Keranos, God of Storms against them. He can and likely will get attacked, unlike Keranos, but he can kill Etched Champion/Arcbound Ravager/Master of Etherium/Ensoul Artifact (unlike Keranos), and at least he Bolts the turn he ETB...and if you can ult him, it's GG against Affinity...
Ugin's not as bad against current Twin builds as you'd think, as they've hybridized with midrange, so they're more likely to leave Exarchs lying around and combo off slower. He still doesn't turn the Twin match-up around that much, though.
Ugin's better against Scapeshift than O. Stone/Wurmcoil are, and Ugin's better against Ascendancy than Wurmcoil is. Both decks will probably throw token Bolts, attackers, and bounce at Ugin to keep him off his ult, but his ult has very good odds of cheating out a poppable O. Stone and surprisingly decent odds of pooping out a hardcast Emrakul.
Since Karn/O. Stone at least do some work against aggro, and Ugin obviously roasts midrange and still can't be ignored against control, I'm willing to drop Wurmcoils for Ugin to up my odds against combo, however slightly. (Yeah, I'll lean on O. Stone and my sideboard to bail me out against Blood Moon, and I'll play around Tec Edge really hard. My experience is that Burn either outraces me or Skullcracks Wurmcoil into GG in their favour in Game 1.)
What about mono-U tron? It's a lot less likely then RG to have it's 7 mana on turn 3, and will probably have played an island before then, so 7 mana is much less of a magic number for it. On one hand, especially with the counter backup of mono-U tron, he's guaranteed to win the game if he's resolved. On the other hand, he's not an artifact so you can't fetch him with Treasure Mage. And unlike the 6-drops, you'll probably not be able to cast him with a hand full of islands, even if you're not facing a too agressive deck.
Whisperwood Elemental is like a smaller Grave Titan that can generate a lot of value. It also has boardwipe prevention in its second ability. Like most 5 drops probably too slow, but it looks fun at least.
Soulflayer also seems to have build around potential, and if Delve thus far has shown us anything, it's definitely a mechanic can make waves on any spell.
One of the new spoilers from today. I really think this has applications in both Dredge and non-dredge shells, and may make a splash if it finds a home.
Seems like it fits in a great dredge-vine shell--ditch baneslayers and prophetic flamespeakers and whatever else and go to town. (but you know, like a real polished list, not my suggestions.)
Whisperwood Elemental is like a smaller Grave Titan that can generate a lot of value. It also has boardwipe prevention in its second ability. Like most 5 drops probably too slow, but it looks fun at least.
Soulflayer also seems to have build around potential, and if Delve thus far has shown us anything, it's definitely a mechanic can make waves on any spell.
I can see finding Whisperwood Elemental a home in my Nykhtos Green Devotion deck. Five mana are often online on turn 3 and build in boardwipe protection is neat!
I'm kinda disappointed with how Manifest only lets you flip Creatures face up.
Dash, sorta like Raid before it, is a mechanic that has potential to produce something good.
I like Outpost Siege. I doubt it'll do anything for us since its cmc is a bit too much for its own good, but another Red Phyrexian Arena knockoff to further establish that "Red has its own version of CA too" precedent is appreciated. Like hell anyone's gonna pick Dragons...
I like Outpost Siege. I doubt it'll do anything for us since its cmc is a bit too much for its own good, but another Red Phyrexian Arena knockoff to further establish that "Red has its own version of CA too" precedent is appreciated. Like hell anyone's gonna pick Dragons...
Yeah, my biggest problem with it is that Chandra is basically strictly better than it for Modern, and she sees almost no play at all.
Been playing around quite a bit with Ugin, and here are my thoughts.
1. It's tough to determine what it replaces in Tron, but it definitely has a spot (depends on version however).
2. It is a bigger bomb than Karn against most decks, especially with all the decks that can produce a large board state these days on turns 1-3. There are quite a few decks in the format that have a very difficult time beating a resolved Ugin. Those being Bogles, Tokens, BGx Midrange (unless they draw into a pulse), Wx Hatebears, UR Delver, Zoo, UWR control, Nykthos Green, Faeries, Birthing Pod, and a few others. Pretty much any deck in the format that relies on a board presence of any sort, gets wrecked by Ugin resolving. Ugin however is not particularly good against Scapeshift, Tron Mirrors, Ad Nauseam, Splinter Twin, and a few others.
3. Since ugin is such a house against creature decks, and a bit average against more combo-centric decks, I think he fits best in a blue tron style shell that can play control and delay tactics until it can drop Ugin and win.
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Bolster: don't think it will do much. You always have to choose one of your guys with the lowest toughness (i.e. the one most vulnerable to Electrolyze or Bolt). On the plus side it doesn't fizzle if the chosen creature gets killed in response. Thank goodness for that.
Prowess: well, it was in Khans and Swiftspear was the only playable dude. Jeskai Sage brings the total count of 1U, "draw a card when this dies" creatures to 3 (the other two are Surveilling Sprite and Oculus) so there might be a combo deck that could use them if proper engines are printed. Emphasis on "IF proper engines are printed".
Delve: also from Khans. Everybody knows TC and Dig, but Murderous Cut gets played in some Pod SBs too. Gurmag Angler seems borderline playable; it's a 5/5 so it beats Rhino and most Goyfs, while it only has one black in its casting cost. All things said it's still just a vanilla beater though, and unlike Goyf (which is THE vanilla beater), you can't slam it on turn 2.
Dash: interesting mechanic. Any card with this can be casted as a "Viashino" (gains haste, returns to hand at EOT). I hope they made an enchantment which triggers off creatures ETBing, it could add an archetype to Limited, but more importantly R/W Norin could use it.
Ferocious: win-more. Someone played Feed the Clan in an Infect deck though.
Manifest: When I saw this I was thinking Call of the Conclave, since the first card was a sorcery that makes a 2/2 creature. There's a few advantages to this mechanic, theoretically:
1) You can get the original creature at any time by paying it mana cost (or morph cost).
2) It gives you creatures, but your deck can still be composed primarily of instants and sorceries (or whatever other card type has manifest). When is this relevant? Uh...Peer Through Depths and Mystical Teachings, I guess? White Sun's Zenith still seems better as an instant token maker.
3) It feeds your graveyard if the manifested creature dies, unlike token makers.
4) Fixing your draws. Provided you had some way to know what's on top of your library, of course.
(Note: when you manifest a creature, you can turn it face-up for its mana cost. It doesn't need to have a morph cost. I misread this the first time around.)
I like the Elemental, but the problem is getting to 5 mana while your opponent is Bolting your mana elves left and right. Shaman Revelation is cool, but again it's 5 mana. Regal Force is 7 but you can Pact for it (so you only ever need to play 1 Regal Force in your deck).
One of the new spoilers from today. I really think this has applications in both Dredge and non-dredge shells, and may make a splash if it finds a home.
Seems like it fits in a great dredge-vine shell--ditch baneslayers and prophetic flamespeakers and whatever else and go to town. (but you know, like a real polished list, not my suggestions.)
The problem is is that it's very much All In; Unlike other Delve cards, you have to have (potentially terrible) creatures with the Keywords you want, Have to have them in your graveyard, and have it not be countered.
Those don't stop Tom Cruise or DTT, and I want to see it work, but TC or DTT fit into any deck with Blue, where as this has to be entirely built around.
I wanna tinker with it, very much.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Whisperwood Elemental looks solid. Especially since you get the 2/2 EOT, so you pass the turn with 6 power on the board. That's pretty good for 5 mana. It also gives you mana sinks a long the way so you don't run out of things to do + wrath protection (and who knows maybe you Manifest a second Whisperwood and can start all over)
In Standard it's gonna be a beast, in Modern there might not be that many decks that want him. Pod maybe?
I looked at a bunch of cards, to see where they may be a home for Soulflayer. I think it's best in Esper or Grixis colours, primarily because of this card: Gifts Ungiven. Gifts allows you to choose which abilities are most relevant at the time, and can also be cast for value. Adding white allows you to seamlessly incorporate the Gifts+Rites combo, without too much of a strain on mana and life, as well as patching up what is a relatively fair deck and making it a tad unfair--allowing it to compete with the other unfair decks. Being Esper also allows you to hard cast Sphinx of the Steel Wind if it ever comes to that, or just pitch it with Gifts and Delve it away, or recur it back with Rites for a maindeck combo as well as Path and Sweepers. Adding Red brings more removal and additional Haste creatures, in addition to looting effects which may or may not be effective. It loses a lot of the power and sudden explosiveness the Esper build has, but adds a lot of aggression through creatures such as Zealot and Aristocrat (and others).
Depending on your colour combination, I think these are the best creatures to be played along side Soulflayer and to be pitched for Delve. Vault Skirge, in particular, should always be played in some number due to the Lifelink.
These cards are decent, but there is a reason a lot of them aren't played. Sure, if they get Bolted here, they can be pitched to make Soulflayer better, but especially in the case of Flamespeaker, the tempo loss is insane. With Mirri and the Elemental, you can at least push some damage through, but Mirri does cost 4.
Mantis Rider seems like an obvious target to be Delved away, but the manabase would be suicide. You'd need to be able to guarantee double black, in addition to supporting the other 3 colours. If you decide to just splash red for mantis, then what's the point? You have comparable creatures that provide either the same or a similar combination in more manageable colours. Chromanticore can't be hard cast and is a dead card everywhere else except from the grave. It can be reanimated, but it doesn't even have haste. Stay away unless you're feeling crazy.
I don't think you wanna go all the way and set him up with Gifts. That's way too much trouble to play a bad version of Baneslayer. Especially when you can Unburial Rites back a fatty with less effort.
I don't see him in Dredge either (or maybe?). The only abilities you can pass on to him there are: Trample (Troll), Flying (Birds, Imp) and Haste (Vengevine) and since you don't wanna delve away Vine, you get a 4/4 with evasion which is cool, but when you fill up the yard as fast as Dredge does, you might as well play Tombstalker instead.
I could see him in Junk style decks though. Filling the yard with 4 cards is a lot easier than 6 cards for Stalker and there's a couple of cool abilities to steal. Including Trample from Rhino. (EDIT: but then again why aren't you running Hooting Mandrills?)
Grixis is the best color pairing for him. You get Gifts, Faithless Looting, Izzet Charm, etc. At that point though you're probably going through way too much trouble to 'turn him on'. It isn't like you're going to win the game like with any combo deck so honestly...I think best case is to get a 4/4 flyer or maybe in some Esper mid-range/rites list with Geist, etc. Maybe play some Thirst for Knowledge to pitch a card or two...(Or you can go deep and play Liliana :p)
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Who's to say it isn't? Perhaps not right now, since Modern's faster than it's ever been before, but I doubt there'll never be a place for Ugin somewhere in the format.
And the speed of the format. What Tron wants is a weapon that is cheaper, not more expensive to cast at this moment. Ceteris paribus, it's hard to see Tron being good in this format. It's decent at best.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Yeahhhh I was also pretty pissed...
Edit: Oh but this is only for prerelease or is it just a rare thing that happens occasionally?
Ah so its not a real reprint, but it is a way to keep the supply up. Cost sustaining rather than cutting. Smart.
...Yeah, Ugin roasts Bogles compared to Karn/O. Stone/Wurmcoil Engine. Ugin's also better against Living End than Karn/O. Stone is, although Wurmcoil blocks Living End's guys a lot of times.
Ugin's actually not that bad against Affinity--he performs about as poorly as Keranos, God of Storms against them. He can and likely will get attacked, unlike Keranos, but he can kill Etched Champion/Arcbound Ravager/Master of Etherium/Ensoul Artifact (unlike Keranos), and at least he Bolts the turn he ETB...and if you can ult him, it's GG against Affinity...
Ugin's not as bad against current Twin builds as you'd think, as they've hybridized with midrange, so they're more likely to leave Exarchs lying around and combo off slower. He still doesn't turn the Twin match-up around that much, though.
Ugin's better against Scapeshift than O. Stone/Wurmcoil are, and Ugin's better against Ascendancy than Wurmcoil is. Both decks will probably throw token Bolts, attackers, and bounce at Ugin to keep him off his ult, but his ult has very good odds of cheating out a poppable O. Stone and surprisingly decent odds of pooping out a hardcast Emrakul.
Since Karn/O. Stone at least do some work against aggro, and Ugin obviously roasts midrange and still can't be ignored against control, I'm willing to drop Wurmcoils for Ugin to up my odds against combo, however slightly. (Yeah, I'll lean on O. Stone and my sideboard to bail me out against Blood Moon, and I'll play around Tec Edge really hard. My experience is that Burn either outraces me or Skullcracks Wurmcoil into GG in their favour in Game 1.)
Soulflayer also seems to have build around potential, and if Delve thus far has shown us anything, it's definitely a mechanic can make waves on any spell.
I can see finding Whisperwood Elemental a home in my Nykhtos Green Devotion deck. Five mana are often online on turn 3 and build in boardwipe protection is neat!
I'm kinda disappointed with how Manifest only lets you flip Creatures face up.
Dash, sorta like Raid before it, is a mechanic that has potential to produce something good.
I like Outpost Siege. I doubt it'll do anything for us since its cmc is a bit too much for its own good, but another Red Phyrexian Arena knockoff to further establish that "Red has its own version of CA too" precedent is appreciated. Like hell anyone's gonna pick Dragons...
Yeah, my biggest problem with it is that Chandra is basically strictly better than it for Modern, and she sees almost no play at all.
1. It's tough to determine what it replaces in Tron, but it definitely has a spot (depends on version however).
2. It is a bigger bomb than Karn against most decks, especially with all the decks that can produce a large board state these days on turns 1-3. There are quite a few decks in the format that have a very difficult time beating a resolved Ugin. Those being Bogles, Tokens, BGx Midrange (unless they draw into a pulse), Wx Hatebears, UR Delver, Zoo, UWR control, Nykthos Green, Faeries, Birthing Pod, and a few others. Pretty much any deck in the format that relies on a board presence of any sort, gets wrecked by Ugin resolving. Ugin however is not particularly good against Scapeshift, Tron Mirrors, Ad Nauseam, Splinter Twin, and a few others.
3. Since ugin is such a house against creature decks, and a bit average against more combo-centric decks, I think he fits best in a blue tron style shell that can play control and delay tactics until it can drop Ugin and win.
Prowess: well, it was in Khans and Swiftspear was the only playable dude. Jeskai Sage brings the total count of 1U, "draw a card when this dies" creatures to 3 (the other two are Surveilling Sprite and Oculus) so there might be a combo deck that could use them if proper engines are printed. Emphasis on "IF proper engines are printed".
Delve: also from Khans. Everybody knows TC and Dig, but Murderous Cut gets played in some Pod SBs too. Gurmag Angler seems borderline playable; it's a 5/5 so it beats Rhino and most Goyfs, while it only has one black in its casting cost. All things said it's still just a vanilla beater though, and unlike Goyf (which is THE vanilla beater), you can't slam it on turn 2.
Dash: interesting mechanic. Any card with this can be casted as a "Viashino" (gains haste, returns to hand at EOT). I hope they made an enchantment which triggers off creatures ETBing, it could add an archetype to Limited, but more importantly R/W Norin could use it.
Ferocious: win-more. Someone played Feed the Clan in an Infect deck though.
Manifest: When I saw this I was thinking Call of the Conclave, since the first card was a sorcery that makes a 2/2 creature. There's a few advantages to this mechanic, theoretically:
1) You can get the original creature at any time by paying it mana cost (or morph cost).
2) It gives you creatures, but your deck can still be composed primarily of instants and sorceries (or whatever other card type has manifest). When is this relevant? Uh...Peer Through Depths and Mystical Teachings, I guess? White Sun's Zenith still seems better as an instant token maker.
3) It feeds your graveyard if the manifested creature dies, unlike token makers.
4) Fixing your draws. Provided you had some way to know what's on top of your library, of course.
(Note: when you manifest a creature, you can turn it face-up for its mana cost. It doesn't need to have a morph cost. I misread this the first time around.)
It seems like they made cards specifically for Elves. Whisperwood Elemental is a Verdant Force/Caller of the Claw hybrid, while Shaman Revelation is a 5-mana Collective Unconscious with upside.
I like the Elemental, but the problem is getting to 5 mana while your opponent is Bolting your mana elves left and right. Shaman Revelation is cool, but again it's 5 mana. Regal Force is 7 but you can Pact for it (so you only ever need to play 1 Regal Force in your deck).
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
The problem is is that it's very much All In; Unlike other Delve cards, you have to have (potentially terrible) creatures with the Keywords you want, Have to have them in your graveyard, and have it not be countered.
Those don't stop Tom Cruise or DTT, and I want to see it work, but TC or DTT fit into any deck with Blue, where as this has to be entirely built around.
I wanna tinker with it, very much.
In Standard it's gonna be a beast, in Modern there might not be that many decks that want him. Pod maybe?
Gifts Ungiven. Gifts allows you to choose which abilities are most relevant at the time, and can also be cast for value. Adding white allows you to seamlessly incorporate the Gifts+Rites combo, without too much of a strain on mana and life, as well as patching up what is a relatively fair deck and making it a tad unfair--allowing it to compete with the other unfair decks. Being Esper also allows you to hard cast Sphinx of the Steel Wind if it ever comes to that, or just pitch it with Gifts and Delve it away, or recur it back with Rites for a maindeck combo as well as Path and Sweepers. Adding Red brings more removal and additional Haste creatures, in addition to looting effects which may or may not be effective. It loses a lot of the power and sudden explosiveness the Esper build has, but adds a lot of aggression through creatures such as Zealot and Aristocrat (and others).
Good Creatures
Vault Skirge
Ash Zealot
Falkenrath Aristrocrat
Gurmag Swiftwing
Geist of Saint Traft
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Stinkweed Imp
Depending on your colour combination, I think these are the best creatures to be played along side Soulflayer and to be pitched for Delve. Vault Skirge, in particular, should always be played in some number due to the Lifelink.
Passable Creatures
Mirri the Cursed
Prophetic Flamespeaker
Spark Elemental
These cards are decent, but there is a reason a lot of them aren't played. Sure, if they get Bolted here, they can be pitched to make Soulflayer better, but especially in the case of Flamespeaker, the tempo loss is insane. With Mirri and the Elemental, you can at least push some damage through, but Mirri does cost 4.
Potential Traps
Mantis Rider
Chromanticore
Mantis Rider seems like an obvious target to be Delved away, but the manabase would be suicide. You'd need to be able to guarantee double black, in addition to supporting the other 3 colours. If you decide to just splash red for mantis, then what's the point? You have comparable creatures that provide either the same or a similar combination in more manageable colours. Chromanticore can't be hard cast and is a dead card everywhere else except from the grave. It can be reanimated, but it doesn't even have haste. Stay away unless you're feeling crazy.
tl; dr I like this thing a lot.
I don't see him in Dredge either (or maybe?). The only abilities you can pass on to him there are: Trample (Troll), Flying (Birds, Imp) and Haste (Vengevine) and since you don't wanna delve away Vine, you get a 4/4 with evasion which is cool, but when you fill up the yard as fast as Dredge does, you might as well play Tombstalker instead.
I could see him in Junk style decks though. Filling the yard with 4 cards is a lot easier than 6 cards for Stalker and there's a couple of cool abilities to steal. Including Trample from Rhino. (EDIT: but then again why aren't you running Hooting Mandrills?)
Bassara Tower Archer
Athreos, God of Passage
Darksteel Myr
Phylactery Lich
Predator Ooze
Thassa, God of the Sea
Elite Inquisitor
Ball Lightning
Cerodon Yearling
Chandra's Phoenix
Deepcavern Imp
Goblin Striker
Groundbreaker
Hell's Thunder
Hellspark Elemental
Impetuous Sunchaser
Lightning Serpent
Uktabi Drake
Deadly Recluse
Pegasus Charger
Skyhunter Prowler
Sungrace Pegasus
Vampire Nighthawk
Glissa, the Traitor
Tidehollow Strix
Winged Coatl
Skyhunter Skirmisher
Fiendslayer Paladin
Hobgoblin Dragoon
Knight of Meadowgrain
Mirri, Cat Warrior
Vampire Hexmage
Voiceless Spirit
Drakewing Krasis
Spellheart Chimera
Daggerdrome Imp
Ghor-Clan Rampager
Igneous Pouncer
Jungle Weaver
Mosquito Guard
Pale Recluse
Shinen of Flight's Wings
Shinen of Fury's Fire
Shinen of Stars' Light
Vexing Sphinx
Viashino Shanktail
Wasteland Viper