I like Outpost Siege. I doubt it'll do anything for us since its cmc is a bit too much for its own good, but another Red Phyrexian Arena knockoff to further establish that "Red has its own version of CA too" precedent is appreciated. Like hell anyone's gonna pick Dragons...
Yeah, my biggest problem with it is that Chandra is basically strictly better than it for Modern, and she sees almost no play at all.
Chandra, Pyromaster gets attacked and Bolted fairly hard and has a less splashable mana cost, so no, I don't think Chandra 4.0 is virtually strictly better.
On the other hand, Chandra 4.0 can flip cards when she ETB, can also ping/deny blocks when she ETB (or on any other turn), has an ult that opponents must respect, and isn't an enchantment...
Am I the only one excited by Outpost Siege? Seems like a replacement for Goblin Bombardment, just a somewhat terrible one. You'd need Viscera Seer and tokens, or recursive creatures, but that can be done right?
I think the trick to Soulflayer is that you need to play him with creatures you want to hardcast. While it's tempting to try and live the dream with cards like Drogskol Reaver and Sphinx of Steel Winds, the better plan is to stick to creatures like GoST, Siege Rhino, etc.
Vampire Nighthawk seems great with Soulflayer, finally a reason to be not pissed about Lightning Bolt taking out Nighthawk.
Yep. However Id say that if you run a reanimator deck, hes realllllllyyy good as a plan B. Eat the thing (sphinx of steel wind) you were trying to reanimate.
I think people are looking at Ugin, the Spirit Dragon the wrong way. He isn't meant for R/G Tron in my mind. He is meant for Mono-U Tron. R/G tron rushes to get tron online asap. Mono-U tron doesn't need tron to be online to win and takes it time. For that reason a 8cmc card versus 7 is more moot in my mind. Ugin also adds a lot of utility that U Tron doesn't generally have, like direct damage. Over in the Mono-U forum there is a lot of excitement and I think he will be at least a 1 of in the deck, but quite possibly 2+ depending on developments.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
I think people are looking at Ugin, the Spirit Dragon the wrong way. He isn't meant for R/G Tron in my mind. He is meant for Mono-U Tron. R/G tron rushes to get tron online asap. Mono-U tron doesn't need tron to be online to win and takes it time. For that reason a 8cmc card versus 7 is more moot in my mind. Ugin also adds a lot of utility that U Tron doesn't generally have, like direct damage. Over in the Mono-U forum there is a lot of excitement and I think he will be at least a 1 of in the deck, but quite possibly 2+ depending on developments.
I might play Mono-U Tron just to get the chance to play this card in Modern.
Am I the only one excited by Outpost Siege? Seems like a replacement for Goblin Bombardment, just a somewhat terrible one. You'd need Viscera Seer and tokens, or recursive creatures, but that can be done right?
Outpost Siege is no replacement for Goblin Bombardment. Bombardment is playable because it's 2 mana and a sac outlet. Outpost Siege is neither.
Clearly, a 2-card combo that costs at least 5 mana in total is worse than a single card with the same effect for 2.
Vampire Nighthawk seems great with Soulflayer, finally a reason to be not pissed about Lightning Bolt taking out Nighthawk.
Yep. However Id say that if you run a reanimator deck, hes realllllllyyy good as a plan B. Eat the thing (sphinx of steel wind) you were trying to reanimate.
Nighthawk is pretty sweet actually. I still don't see the the link to Reanimator though. What shell would you put him in? The Gifts version or the Goryo's Vengeance version or something new?
I did say somewhat terrible. It's an expensive two card combo, but it's still a two card combo. It's not Treasure Cruise, but it should still be fun to brew with. Play it with Myr Servitor, Gravecrawler, and friends.
Soulflayer was spoiled today and it wants to be broken. A few posts (here and here) have listed a lot of powerful creatures to exile.
I think there are two types of decks were he can fit. One where he makes up the primary win condition, which seems really fragile to me. Or a reanimator deck where he is Unburial Rites copies 4-8, which seems a hell of a lot more powerful. He could be extremely powerful, but I feel he must stick if you use him, since he uses up a non-renewable resource.
I didn't see a dedicated thread about him yet, so I thought I'd start one.
I think people are looking at Ugin, the Spirit Dragon the wrong way. He isn't meant for R/G Tron in my mind. He is meant for Mono-U Tron. R/G tron rushes to get tron online asap. Mono-U tron doesn't need tron to be online to win and takes it time. For that reason a 8cmc card versus 7 is more moot in my mind. Ugin also adds a lot of utility that U Tron doesn't generally have, like direct damage. Over in the Mono-U forum there is a lot of excitement and I think he will be at least a 1 of in the deck, but quite possibly 2+ depending on developments.
From my experience with Mono-U Tron, Wurmcoil Engine feels half a world cheaper than 7-8-mana cards simply because I don't need the Tron to be able to hardcast it in a grindy game (especially with counter back-up). Stuff like Sundering Titan still almost requests the Tron (or a 15+-turn-long game). For those reasons, 8 cmc vs. 6 (or 7, I guess) is definitely not moot in my mind.
Given how grindy Mono-U Tron has become lately, it can probably find room for Ugin, although Ugin still competes with Oblivion Stone there because you can Fabricate for O. Stone, the Academy Ruins-O. Stone lock exists, O. Stone is playable if you have only 2 Tron pieces and 3 Islands, and O. Stone still shuts up combos at instant (telegraphed) speed.
This is a very rough around the edges all out soulflayer deck. I imagine that this deck really should just be infect. In a few goldfishes I've been able to get him out turn 3 with trample, haste, flying, and hexproof. That's still slower than burn or infect though so I'm not sure it's actually worth playing. I'll probably keep brewing though as a just for fun kinda budget deck. Also yes the manabase is a hot mess.
Oh and rules question: Can you delve more than 4 with soulflayer? I want to say yes, it obviously won't continue to decrease the cost, but I also wouldn't be surprised if somewhere deep in the delve rules it said you couldn't.
702.65. Delve
702.65a Delve is a static ability that functions while the spell with delve is on the stack. “Delve” means “For each generic mana in this spell’s total cost, you may exile a card from your graveyard rather than pay that mana.” The delve ability isn’t an additional or alternative cost and applies only after the total cost of the spell with delve is determined.
702.65b Multiple instances of delve on the same spell are redundant.
The "For each generic mana [...]" phrasing implies that you can only delve as many cards as there are generic mana in the spell's cost (so at most 4 for Soulflayer).
702.65. Delve
702.65a Delve is a static ability that functions while the spell with delve is on the stack. “Delve” means “For each generic mana in this spell’s total cost, you may exile a card from your graveyard rather than pay that mana.” The delve ability isn’t an additional or alternative cost and applies only after the total cost of the spell with delve is determined.
702.65b Multiple instances of delve on the same spell are redundant.
The "For each generic mana [...]" phrasing implies that you can only delve as many cards as there are generic mana in the spell's cost (so at most 4 for Soulflayer).
Thanks. I always like to see quotes from the rules. I'm not too surprised. Besides Soulflayer there are totally reasons people might want to remove more cards from their yard for something even as simple as an enemy goyf.
Am I the only person who wants to play Jeskai Sage? The only 2 other versions of this card are both always going to be 1 power, while sage should consistently be 2-3. Add the fact that the only way to kill it without incurring card disadvantage is Path to Exile, and it seems very strong in a tempo deck.
I think Young Pyromancer is a better two drop in UR Delver and Goyf is better in RUG Delver. Jeskai Delver I'm not so sure of though. It plays a little less "free" spells than the UR version does and doesn't have access to Goyf, so maybe there?
Hit 5 mana and you get infinite bolts, 6 for infinite Remands. And if you don't hit that much mana it's still a 2/2 with lifelink that makes bolts into helixes and makes helixes into double helixes.
Grand Master is a cool card, but it definitely is not as powerful as everyone in the spoiler thread is making it out to be. At least in modern, the 4 mana buyback ability is just way too costly to be relevant in most instances.
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I like it as anyi aggro and burn for zoo. Give our burn life link, meaning it removes dudes and heals us. If it geta bolted, well that sucks. But its a risk im willin to take!
Chandra, Pyromaster gets attacked and Bolted fairly hard and has a less splashable mana cost, so no, I don't think Chandra 4.0 is virtually strictly better.
On the other hand, Chandra 4.0 can flip cards when she ETB, can also ping/deny blocks when she ETB (or on any other turn), has an ult that opponents must respect, and isn't an enchantment...
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Yep. However Id say that if you run a reanimator deck, hes realllllllyyy good as a plan B. Eat the thing (sphinx of steel wind) you were trying to reanimate.
Outpost Siege is no replacement for Goblin Bombardment. Bombardment is playable because it's 2 mana and a sac outlet. Outpost Siege is neither.
Clearly, a 2-card combo that costs at least 5 mana in total is worse than a single card with the same effect for 2.
Norin is more interested in ETB triggers, like Purphoros. They get out of hand when you have a Genesis Chamber.
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Nighthawk is pretty sweet actually. I still don't see the the link to Reanimator though. What shell would you put him in? The Gifts version or the Goryo's Vengeance version or something new?
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Turn 1 thoughtsieze
Turn 2 smallpox
Turn 3 flayer delving vampire nighthawk
From my experience with Mono-U Tron, Wurmcoil Engine feels half a world cheaper than 7-8-mana cards simply because I don't need the Tron to be able to hardcast it in a grindy game (especially with counter back-up). Stuff like Sundering Titan still almost requests the Tron (or a 15+-turn-long game). For those reasons, 8 cmc vs. 6 (or 7, I guess) is definitely not moot in my mind.
Given how grindy Mono-U Tron has become lately, it can probably find room for Ugin, although Ugin still competes with Oblivion Stone there because you can Fabricate for O. Stone, the Academy Ruins-O. Stone lock exists, O. Stone is playable if you have only 2 Tron pieces and 3 Islands, and O. Stone still shuts up combos at instant (telegraphed) speed.
Perhaps you want to play some sort of flyer aggro deck so you can play Favorable Winds as well...
Oh and rules question: Can you delve more than 4 with soulflayer? I want to say yes, it obviously won't continue to decrease the cost, but I also wouldn't be surprised if somewhere deep in the delve rules it said you couldn't.
2x Birds of Paradise
3x Ghor-Clan Rampager
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Serpent
2x Plagued Rusalka
4x Soulflayer
4x spark Elemental
4x Sylvan Caryatid
3x Uktabi Drake
3x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Viashino Slaughtermaster
3x stomping ground
2x swamp
2x verdant catacombs
2x wasteland viper
3x blood crypt
4x bloodstained mire
1x forest
4x wooded foothills
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
The Delve C.R. entry reads
The "For each generic mana [...]" phrasing implies that you can only delve as many cards as there are generic mana in the spell's cost (so at most 4 for Soulflayer).
Thanks. I always like to see quotes from the rules. I'm not too surprised. Besides Soulflayer there are totally reasons people might want to remove more cards from their yard for something even as simple as an enemy goyf.
Yet another creature for Training Grounds.dek