So, this card begs for a combo use within a deck. I think hardcasting it for 3U is perfectly doable in modern, and especially in an U shell which has a lot of instant and sorcery support, and counter protection against combo decks.
Getting your nonLore spells discarded by Liliana and Thoughtseize will also easen the card's ability.
In a modern UR shell, you have access to plenty of looting which will easily enables this piece.
A big problem is that slower U decks aren't that good in modern because of poor card draw. But Living Lore enables the casting of large spells, which may mean access to the larger card drawing spells that are otherwise unfeasible without support.
Perhaps there are even UR pieces that function well with the graveyard.
What do you guys think? What interactions would work well with this card?
If you want to filter towards UR cards, add c!ur to the search field.
The first hilarious thing this card could cast through a quick look is Searing Wind, but I understand it's just a cute trick.
This card's also probably good with the more expensive time walkers, and works great with Temporal Mastery (If you draw it, Miracle it, if you start with it in your hand, loot it and cast it through Living Lore. Thunderous Wrath similarly tickles my fancy, but it's all very christmasy isn't it?).
Seems too cute to work effectively. Exiling anything CMC 3 or less is bad and just makes it Lightning Bolt bait.
It would be fun to live the dream and exile a Cruel Ultimatum with it.
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Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
EDIT: loring a Jace's Ingenuity allows it to eat Siege Rhinos and Tasigurs and most goyfs too, doesn't it? Of course it sucks against Liliana which blue does to begin with...
To me the question isn't whether this is a whole new combo enabler centerpiece, but that it might be some secret support tech to an already functional UR control shell.
I have been messing around with brews with it but I keep running into the same issue. Namely -
You have to get the card you want to use into your graveyard.
You have to wait until turn 3 or 4 to get it into play and then another turn to attack.
It can get countered or killed by a large range of decks
Even after you attacked you then have to resolve the spell through possible counters
The deck is very fragile to hate or discard with an almost impossible task to win without the graveyard
I'm sure there are ways to build the deck I haven't considered but it keeps coming down to the fact you 100% require your graveyard to be untouched
It feels like you're better off playing ad nauseam combo if you want an all in combo deck, it wins at the same speed, can win at instant speed and doesn't require the graveyard. If you want a combo deck that can actually win a normal game then ofc twin is the way to go.
That being said I hope someone brews something spicy even if it isn't tier 1, going 3-1 in some dailies would be cool
Keep in mind, if you're trying to cast Cruel Ultimatum or Temporal Mastery with it, you're only getting a discount of 3 mana. That's equivalent to one Lotus Bloom, and Bloom requires far less setup.
The issue with playing it in a control deck and trying to cheat a Cruel Ultimatum is that you need to get Ultimatum in your graveyard first, which means either
1) playing bad enabler cards like Faithless Looting, or making bad plays like Thoughtseizing yourself
2) casting it, in which case Living Lore is just win-more
I have been thinking about how I'd use this card for a combo deck, and this my preferred method at the moment:
I'll want to play it with haste, and I'm going to need to spells in the graveyard to do anything with it. Cruel Ultimatum seems like one of the best options for comboing, so I'd set the deck up as Grixis.
- Put in a bunch of cheap self-mill such as Thought Scour and maybe Faithless Looting.
- Run a few counterspells to protect it, things like Swan Song or Remand.
- Living Lore and Cruel Ultimatum as the combo pieces I need to mill.
- And finally Postmortem Lunge to actually start the combo.
Enter the Infinite. Pick up the deck, exile simian spirit guide, cast lightning storm, win. Keep in mind the trigger for living lore is any combat damage, so if it lives through combat you get to cast something.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
Keep in mind, if you're trying to cast Cruel Ultimatum or Temporal Mastery with it, you're only getting a discount of 3 mana. That's equivalent to one Lotus Bloom, and Bloom requires far less setup.
The issue with playing it in a control deck and trying to cheat a Cruel Ultimatum is that you need to get Ultimatum in your graveyard first, which means either
1) playing bad enabler cards like Faithless Looting, or making bad plays like Thoughtseizing yourself
2) casting it, in which case Living Lore is just win-more
They don't have to bad enabler cards. Desolate Lighthouse and Izzet Charm are perfectly serviceable spells in control decks, both of which can be activated at instant speed.
Also keep in mind, if we are exiling a card like Cruel Ultimatum for Living Lore, we are getting a 4 mana 7/7, which itself can win games without its trigger depending on board state. This could easily just be a low cost finisher for control strategies. The fact that it can act like a Phyrexian Obliterator on defense (no one wants to attack into a free cruel ultimatum) and is resistant to all common removal aside from Path to Exile (assuming you exile a card with a converted mana cost greater than 5).
This doesn't have to be dropped turn 4, and it doesn't have to be sacrificed immediately. This card could potentially be a card dropped around turn 6-7 with counter magic up to protect it, while it dominates the board through shear size/threat.
It a lot easier to cast a 4 mana spell with counter magic than it is a 7+ mana spell with countermagic.
The only problem is the amount of slots that would be need to be dedicated to both unwieldy spells and Living Lore, potentially diluting your deck (which is where I think Delve spells or alternative cost spells might be welcome in a deck like this).
Living Lore is so flavorful I'd rather have it than a steak. But, the setup makes it tricky to pull off, i.e. how will I consistently get a Cruel Ultimatum into the bin.
Enter the Infinite. Pick up the deck, exile simian spirit guide, cast lightning storm, win. Keep in mind the trigger for living lore is any combat damage, so if it lives through combat you get to cast something.
This is exactly how the ad nasueam deck wins but instead of an instant speed turn 3/4 combo deck you're having to 1) resolve a creature, 2) have it live to attack and 3) all be done at sorcery speed
I fail to see the benefits that a living lore version offers other than a potential 12/12 beater that has no form of protection, doesn't trample or fly. On top of this you have to run cards to enable your graveyard and therefore increase your exposure to hate.
Enter the Infinite. Pick up the deck, exile simian spirit guide, cast lightning storm, win. Keep in mind the trigger for living lore is any combat damage, so if it lives through combat you get to cast something.
This is exactly how the ad nasueam deck wins but instead of an instant speed turn 3/4 combo deck you're having to 1) resolve a creature, 2) have it live to attack and 3) all be done at sorcery speed
I fail to see the benefits that a living lore version offers other than a potential 12/12 beater that has no form of protection, doesn't trample or fly. On top of this you have to run cards to enable your graveyard and therefore increase your exposure to hate.
You said it yourself, you fail to see. Nothing is stopping you from playing something else, and I'm not trying to convince you to play lore.
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Legacy RB Goblins
So, this card begs for a combo use within a deck. I think hardcasting it for 3U is perfectly doable in modern, and especially in an U shell which has a lot of instant and sorcery support, and counter protection against combo decks.
Getting your nonLore spells discarded by Liliana and Thoughtseize will also easen the card's ability.
In a modern UR shell, you have access to plenty of looting which will easily enables this piece.
A big problem is that slower U decks aren't that good in modern because of poor card draw. But Living Lore enables the casting of large spells, which may mean access to the larger card drawing spells that are otherwise unfeasible without support.
Perhaps there are even UR pieces that function well with the graveyard.
What do you guys think? What interactions would work well with this card?
If you want to filter towards UR cards, add c!ur to the search field.
The first hilarious thing this card could cast through a quick look is Searing Wind, but I understand it's just a cute trick.
This card's also probably good with the more expensive time walkers, and works great with Temporal Mastery (If you draw it, Miracle it, if you start with it in your hand, loot it and cast it through Living Lore. Thunderous Wrath similarly tickles my fancy, but it's all very christmasy isn't it?).
What do you guys think?
This card probably would have been a house back when Cruise and Dig were legal, but I think that now that the two most powerful high cmc instant/sorcery spells are banned you have to go too far out of your way to make it worth it to cast Living Lore.
I'm thinking of using living lore with thunderous wrath, riddle of lightning and cruel ultimatum.
So far this is the only skeleton of the deck I can think of:
4 living lore
4 goblin guide
2 anticipate
2 cruel ultimatum
4 riddle of lightning
4 thunderous wrath
4 faithless looting
4 thought scour
4 mana leak
4 lightning bolt
24 U/R lands
Cruel ultimatum is only used for living lore and I'm not planning on casting it from my hand, so there's no black in the deck at all. Riddle of lightning can be use for living lore or cast at 5, revealing a cruel or thunderous wrath or another copy of itself could potentially win the game. Thunderous wrath is another 5cmc burn with a chance to cast it for one. It can also make a 5/5 living lore and burn for 5 with its sacrifice.
Really shocked to not see more Delve cards mentioned, as it seems to be pretty much designed to go hand in hand with these. High CMC + capable of being cast early + actually playable? Too bad we lost Cruise already, but Dig Through Time could work.
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I don't care if you're a moderator but you sir have said a very, very stupid thing.
Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Ad nauseam suffers the same thing many combo decks do, from targeted discard. They are explosive, yet sometimes they just durdle with little interaction at all.
A living lore deck could be built in a control type shell, perhaps with something like myth realized as a sly alternate wincon, or the classic celestial colonnade finisher. Ad nauseam can't win without its namesake resolving.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
Whoa, when did this happen? I must re-check the banlist... I thought only Treasure Cruise got banned. My bad.
You forgot the golden rule of modern magic from R&D: Blue players can't have nice things in eternal formats that see professional play.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
If wotc bans anticipate in modern, I will be selling the rest of my esper deck and buying into netrunner; I'll keep my legacy collection, but if they ban anticipate then modern will be dead to me.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
I'm using this card in a UG tron shell with gifts ungiven. So, ramp into tron with green or cast gifts to take advantage of living lore. I chose army of the damned, beacon of tomorrows, temporal trespass and one other that I rotate through. There are quite a few big sorceries and instants to choose from. It's a fun combo deck, but not competitive. It's nice to swing with an 8/8 living lore and then cast army of the damned for free, though.
So, this card begs for a combo use within a deck. I think hardcasting it for 3U is perfectly doable in modern, and especially in an U shell which has a lot of instant and sorcery support, and counter protection against combo decks.
Getting your nonLore spells discarded by Liliana and Thoughtseize will also easen the card's ability.
In a modern UR shell, you have access to plenty of looting which will easily enables this piece.
A big problem is that slower U decks aren't that good in modern because of poor card draw. But Living Lore enables the casting of large spells, which may mean access to the larger card drawing spells that are otherwise unfeasible without support.
Perhaps there are even UR pieces that function well with the graveyard.
What do you guys think? What interactions would work well with this card?
Here's a MtG card search listing all modern sorceries from small to large: http://magiccards.info/query?q=f:modern t:sorcery&s=cmc&v=card&p=1
Here's a MtG card search listing all modern instants from small to large: http://magiccards.info/query?q=f:modern t:instant&v=card&s=cmc
If you want to filter towards UR cards, add c!ur to the search field.
The first hilarious thing this card could cast through a quick look is Searing Wind, but I understand it's just a cute trick.
This card's also probably good with the more expensive time walkers, and works great with Temporal Mastery (If you draw it, Miracle it, if you start with it in your hand, loot it and cast it through Living Lore. Thunderous Wrath similarly tickles my fancy, but it's all very christmasy isn't it?).
What do you guys think?
It would be fun to live the dream and exile a Cruel Ultimatum with it.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
EDIT: loring a Jace's Ingenuity allows it to eat Siege Rhinos and Tasigurs and most goyfs too, doesn't it? Of course it sucks against Liliana which blue does to begin with...
To me the question isn't whether this is a whole new combo enabler centerpiece, but that it might be some secret support tech to an already functional UR control shell.
You have to get the card you want to use into your graveyard.
You have to wait until turn 3 or 4 to get it into play and then another turn to attack.
It can get countered or killed by a large range of decks
Even after you attacked you then have to resolve the spell through possible counters
The deck is very fragile to hate or discard with an almost impossible task to win without the graveyard
I'm sure there are ways to build the deck I haven't considered but it keeps coming down to the fact you 100% require your graveyard to be untouched
It feels like you're better off playing ad nauseam combo if you want an all in combo deck, it wins at the same speed, can win at instant speed and doesn't require the graveyard. If you want a combo deck that can actually win a normal game then ofc twin is the way to go.
That being said I hope someone brews something spicy even if it isn't tier 1, going 3-1 in some dailies would be cool
The issue with playing it in a control deck and trying to cheat a Cruel Ultimatum is that you need to get Ultimatum in your graveyard first, which means either
1) playing bad enabler cards like Faithless Looting, or making bad plays like Thoughtseizing yourself
2) casting it, in which case Living Lore is just win-more
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I'll want to play it with haste, and I'm going to need to spells in the graveyard to do anything with it. Cruel Ultimatum seems like one of the best options for comboing, so I'd set the deck up as Grixis.
- Put in a bunch of cheap self-mill such as Thought Scour and maybe Faithless Looting.
- Run a few counterspells to protect it, things like Swan Song or Remand.
- Living Lore and Cruel Ultimatum as the combo pieces I need to mill.
- And finally Postmortem Lunge to actually start the combo.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
They don't have to bad enabler cards. Desolate Lighthouse and Izzet Charm are perfectly serviceable spells in control decks, both of which can be activated at instant speed.
Also keep in mind, if we are exiling a card like Cruel Ultimatum for Living Lore, we are getting a 4 mana 7/7, which itself can win games without its trigger depending on board state. This could easily just be a low cost finisher for control strategies. The fact that it can act like a Phyrexian Obliterator on defense (no one wants to attack into a free cruel ultimatum) and is resistant to all common removal aside from Path to Exile (assuming you exile a card with a converted mana cost greater than 5).
This doesn't have to be dropped turn 4, and it doesn't have to be sacrificed immediately. This card could potentially be a card dropped around turn 6-7 with counter magic up to protect it, while it dominates the board through shear size/threat.
It a lot easier to cast a 4 mana spell with counter magic than it is a 7+ mana spell with countermagic.
The only problem is the amount of slots that would be need to be dedicated to both unwieldy spells and Living Lore, potentially diluting your deck (which is where I think Delve spells or alternative cost spells might be welcome in a deck like this).
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Living Lore's 0/0 P/T allows Alesha, Who Smiles at Death recur (within Grixis colors too).
Reveillark can return it as well.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
This is exactly how the ad nasueam deck wins but instead of an instant speed turn 3/4 combo deck you're having to 1) resolve a creature, 2) have it live to attack and 3) all be done at sorcery speed
I fail to see the benefits that a living lore version offers other than a potential 12/12 beater that has no form of protection, doesn't trample or fly. On top of this you have to run cards to enable your graveyard and therefore increase your exposure to hate.
You said it yourself, you fail to see. Nothing is stopping you from playing something else, and I'm not trying to convince you to play lore.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
This card probably would have been a house back when Cruise and Dig were legal, but I think that now that the two most powerful high cmc instant/sorcery spells are banned you have to go too far out of your way to make it worth it to cast Living Lore.
UW Approach UW
EDH
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
So far this is the only skeleton of the deck I can think of:
4 living lore
4 goblin guide
2 anticipate
2 cruel ultimatum
4 riddle of lightning
4 thunderous wrath
4 faithless looting
4 thought scour
4 mana leak
4 lightning bolt
24 U/R lands
Cruel ultimatum is only used for living lore and I'm not planning on casting it from my hand, so there's no black in the deck at all. Riddle of lightning can be use for living lore or cast at 5, revealing a cruel or thunderous wrath or another copy of itself could potentially win the game. Thunderous wrath is another 5cmc burn with a chance to cast it for one. It can also make a 5/5 living lore and burn for 5 with its sacrifice.
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
Really shocked to not see more Delve cards mentioned, as it seems to be pretty much designed to go hand in hand with these. High CMC + capable of being cast early + actually playable? Too bad we lost Cruise already, but Dig Through Time could work.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
A living lore deck could be built in a control type shell, perhaps with something like myth realized as a sly alternate wincon, or the classic celestial colonnade finisher. Ad nauseam can't win without its namesake resolving.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Whoa, when did this happen? I must re-check the banlist... I thought only Treasure Cruise got banned. My bad.
You forgot the golden rule of modern magic from R&D: Blue players can't have nice things in eternal formats that see professional play.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
I hope anticipate will not be touched by the list in the future.
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
I'm hoping to see him put up some videos against other decks, but the list looks sweet.