This isn't the thread for 'i want X reprinted'. It's for things actually in Origins.
The prison warden isn't Standard playable unless he's at least 5/5, and the bar is much higher in Modern where he has no protection from Path to Exile or Go For The Throat.
He's clearly not going to be an 8/8, but I don't think he'd be even close to playable with those stats except as a fun one-of in FNM-level decks.
Liliana is harder to judge. She's amazing once flipped, probably her back side is worth 4 mana (and it comes with a free Zombie), but she requires a bit of work to get out. Realistically I only see her being tried with Chord of Calling and I don't see her being widely played.
Really? You are being ridiculous. "A 5 mana 8/8 with flash wouldn't be anywhere near playable in Modern because it dies to instant-speed non damage/toughness-based non-cost-based removal" is basically what you are saying. There are only 2 removal spells that even see Modern play that are instant-speed and don't depend on damage, toughness, or CMC (Path to Exile and Terminate [the most common removal spells in Modenr are still Lightning Bolt and Abrupt Decay). And saying that you wouldn't play a 5 mana 8/8 with flash and relevant abilities because it dies to Terminate and Path is like refusing to play Loxodon Smiter because it dies to Doom Blade. Even as a 5/5 with flash and relevant text he would be perfectly reasonable to try out in WUR Flash. It would then be a card that could block and kill basically any ground creature in Modern at instant speed and survive while at the same time keeping other creatures exiled. That sounds good to me. It almost certainly won't be a 5/5, but if it was I would definitely play it in Modern.
Surrak Dragonclaw isn't much worse than an 8/8 flash (being 6/6 flash; the gap between 6/6 and 8/8 is very small), has useful abilities, and is not Standard quality or even particularly close. The weaker Retaliate effect is not a powerful ability unless you have enough of a life cushion to eat at least one, preferably two hits from creatures on turn 5, which is almost never true in Modern.
Surrak is in the wrong colors. If he was monoblue I am sure he would see more play, just like how an 5 mana 8/8 with flash in monowhite would see Modern play.
This. Surrak's unplayability is entirely in relation to his colour pie. any colour combination other than UGX and he would have been playable.
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Standard:
Nothing Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
For me this says a deck like Ninja-Bear-Delver in mono blue aggro (without merfolk) might be getting a big boost at some point. It also says Serum Visions is much much more likely to be reprinted outside of FNM promos!
For me this says a deck like Ninja-Bear-Delver in mono blue aggro (without merfolk) might be getting a big boost at some point. It also says Serum Visions is much much more likely to be reprinted outside of FNM promos!
I think that other important parts of the TL;DR are that:
1) Intimidate and Landwalk are not going to be printed anymore
2) Protection is going to become a lot rarer. "Moving forward, protection is moving from what we call evergreen to deciduous. It's a tool in our toolbox that we're allowed to use, but it's not something we expect to use in every set."
Landwalk being gone shouldn't come as a surprise, but Intimidate and Protection kinda surprises me. Shouldn't affect modern too much, but interesting to know.
For me this says a deck like Ninja-Bear-Delver in mono blue aggro (without merfolk) might be getting a big boost at some point. It also says Serum Visions is much much more likely to be reprinted outside of FNM promos!
I think that other important parts of the TL;DR are that:
1) Intimidate and Landwalk are not going to be printed anymore
2) Protection is going to become a lot rarer. "Moving forward, protection is moving from what we call evergreen to deciduous. It's a tool in our toolbox that we're allowed to use, but it's not something we expect to use in every set."
Landwalk being gone shouldn't come as a surprise, but Intimidate and Protection kinda surprises me. Shouldn't affect modern too much, but interesting to know.
Honestly, does anyone else feel like MtG is moving more and more towards Hearthstone? It feels like they are just moving more and more towards high P/T creatures with very basic keywords and very little interaction other than permanent removal. (For anyone who does not play Hearthstone, you can only play spells on your turn, 75%+ of your deck is creatures or ways to remove creatures and there is very little interaction beyond that).
It is really sad to see MtG move more and more away from a thoughtful game with lots of different interactions/modes of winning to a lets play big creatures and hit each other over and over.
For me this says a deck like Ninja-Bear-Delver in mono blue aggro (without merfolk) might be getting a big boost at some point. It also says Serum Visions is much much more likely to be reprinted outside of FNM promos!
I think that other important parts of the TL;DR are that:
1) Intimidate and Landwalk are not going to be printed anymore
2) Protection is going to become a lot rarer. "Moving forward, protection is moving from what we call evergreen to deciduous. It's a tool in our toolbox that we're allowed to use, but it's not something we expect to use in every set."
Landwalk being gone shouldn't come as a surprise, but Intimidate and Protection kinda surprises me. Shouldn't affect modern too much, but interesting to know.
Honestly, does anyone else feel like MtG is moving more and more towards Hearthstone? It feels like they are just moving more and more towards high P/T creatures with very basic keywords and very little interaction other than permanent removal. (For anyone who does not play Hearthstone, you can only play spells on your turn, 75%+ of your deck is creatures or ways to remove creatures and there is very little interaction beyond that).
It is really sad to see MtG move more and more away from a thoughtful game with lots of different interactions/modes of winning to a lets play big creatures and hit each other over and over.
To be honest I don't see this at all from those changes - menace is the only one which is 100% creature based... Prowess needs a specific deck to really shine, and that deck needs enough non-creature spells (and combat against prowess creatures is much more interesting, since you have to think about anything your opponentn could play at instant speed); scry is great in constructed and limited and offeres some interesting choises and adds consistency.
While Intimidate,landwalk and protection just randomely hoses certain colors/decks, while beeing more or less useless against others.
For me this says a deck like Ninja-Bear-Delver in mono blue aggro (without merfolk) might be getting a big boost at some point. It also says Serum Visions is much much more likely to be reprinted outside of FNM promos!
I think that other important parts of the TL;DR are that:
1) Intimidate and Landwalk are not going to be printed anymore
2) Protection is going to become a lot rarer. "Moving forward, protection is moving from what we call evergreen to deciduous. It's a tool in our toolbox that we're allowed to use, but it's not something we expect to use in every set."
Landwalk being gone shouldn't come as a surprise, but Intimidate and Protection kinda surprises me. Shouldn't affect modern too much, but interesting to know.
Honestly, does anyone else feel like MtG is moving more and more towards Hearthstone? It feels like they are just moving more and more towards high P/T creatures with very basic keywords and very little interaction other than permanent removal. (For anyone who does not play Hearthstone, you can only play spells on your turn, 75%+ of your deck is creatures or ways to remove creatures and there is very little interaction beyond that).
It is really sad to see MtG move more and more away from a thoughtful game with lots of different interactions/modes of winning to a lets play big creatures and hit each other over and over.
Wait, they removed three keywords that stifled player interaction, and added three new mechanics that increase player interaction, and you're complaining that the game is getting less thoughtful?
For me this says a deck like Ninja-Bear-Delver in mono blue aggro (without merfolk) might be getting a big boost at some point. It also says Serum Visions is much much more likely to be reprinted outside of FNM promos!
I think that other important parts of the TL;DR are that:
1) Intimidate and Landwalk are not going to be printed anymore
2) Protection is going to become a lot rarer. "Moving forward, protection is moving from what we call evergreen to deciduous. It's a tool in our toolbox that we're allowed to use, but it's not something we expect to use in every set."
Landwalk being gone shouldn't come as a surprise, but Intimidate and Protection kinda surprises me. Shouldn't affect modern too much, but interesting to know.
Honestly, does anyone else feel like MtG is moving more and more towards Hearthstone? It feels like they are just moving more and more towards high P/T creatures with very basic keywords and very little interaction other than permanent removal. (For anyone who does not play Hearthstone, you can only play spells on your turn, 75%+ of your deck is creatures or ways to remove creatures and there is very little interaction beyond that).
It is really sad to see MtG move more and more away from a thoughtful game with lots of different interactions/modes of winning to a lets play big creatures and hit each other over and over.
Even if this were the case, it would only affect Standard (Which would give me another reason to avoid it like the plague). Modern would be left untouched.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
For me this says a deck like Ninja-Bear-Delver in mono blue aggro (without merfolk) might be getting a big boost at some point. It also says Serum Visions is much much more likely to be reprinted outside of FNM promos!
Visions seems a much likelier reprint than we first thought. If anything, the FNM promo suggests it now more than ever, because it would be a card to drum up both Standard and Modern hype.
A lot of really bad cards, like strictly worse Gideon's Lawkeeper, strictly worse Leonin Scimitar, strictly worse Man-o'-War, Diregraf Ghoul with 1 more toughness for 1 more mana...But they're commons and uncommons after all, so whatever.
The most interesting card is Hydrolash as a budget Cryptic Command, or something that mono-U Tron could play against their terrible aggro matchups. It also stops Twin for one turn and draws you a card LOL
edit: holy crap just look at that MYTHIC Dragon, do you like casting One With Nothing? If you do, you'll love it!
Visions seems a much likelier reprint than we first thought. If anything, the FNM promo suggests it now more than ever, because it would be a card to drum up both Standard and Modern hype.
Meh, this you can't cast turn 1 like One with Nothing.
I guess it has some synergy with Bazaar Trader, and some twisted person will use it with Sundial of the Infinite, but I can't really think about cases it will be actually good. Even if you want to use his draw ability, it is impossible, because he will be removed for sure before that, especially because you don't have a hand to protect him. I like cards such as Dangerous Wager and Tormenting Voice, but this one is just bad.
Well, it's easier to donate than Pyromancer's Swath, I'll give you that.
I could almost see the Dragon as a curve-topper of sorts in red aggro, where you have him as a one-of or something, and you only cast him when your hand is otherwise empty of anything but lands, and from then on, he gets you two cards a turn unless the opponent kills him. The problem is, by the time you are at 4 mana, the opponent is probably close enough to death that you are better off including just some other burn spell to go to the face, and in most situations, Thunderbreak Regent is just better.
Edit: Maybe there is some reason to play him in a hellbent deck?
The dragon is poor, but I think he's meant to be a curve topper to pull you ahead after both players have exchanged resources, preferably in Rakdos colors where you can go Thoughtseize into removal spell into whatnot (Liliana for instance if we're talking Modern, but I don't think we are).
Edit: Avalon beat me to it. And actually the more I think about it the more I'm warming up to the card. Am I crazy in seeing this in Jund as a 1 or 2- of instead of Olivia/Huntmaster? Olivia lands when both players are hellbent (or close to it) anyway. So it's all about what generates the most value at that point.
Well, no Serum Visions is very disappointing. If they are going to be very anal about the name "Serum" that it has to be in a Mirrodin set, then there won't be reprint opportunities soon other than in Commander or so, if not it might pop up in a random set since it is evergreen. However, the latter is not that likely as some people are just obsessed by names. Inquisition of Kozilek is another example.
I really hope that it's not just because of the name. Malakir Cullblade is in Origins... I realize we're on the cusp of a Zendikar set but that's some serious hypocrisy if serum is so specific to mirrodin but Malakir is allowed in Origins.
Well, no Serum Visions is very disappointing. If they are going to be very anal about the name "Serum" that it has to be in a Mirrodin set, then there won't be reprint opportunities soon other than in Commander or so, if not it might pop up in a random set since it is evergreen. However, the latter is not that likely as some people are just obsessed by names. Inquisition of Kozilek is another example.
I really hope that it's not just because of the name. Malakir Cullblade is in Origins... I realize we're on the cusp of a Zendikar set but that's some serious hypocrisy if serum is so specific to mirrodin but Malakir is allowed in Origins.
Zendikar is one of the Origins planes (the plane of origin for Nissa), it's not there just because Zendikar is the next block. So no hypocrisy there.
Well, no Serum Visions is very disappointing. If they are going to be very anal about the name "Serum" that it has to be in a Mirrodin set, then there won't be reprint opportunities soon other than in Commander or so, if not it might pop up in a random set since it is evergreen. However, the latter is not that likely as some people are just obsessed by names. Inquisition of Kozilek is another example.
I really hope that it's not just because of the name. Malakir Cullblade is in Origins... I realize we're on the cusp of a Zendikar set but that's some serious hypocrisy if serum is so specific to mirrodin but Malakir is allowed in Origins.
Zendikar is one of the Origins planes (the plane of origin for Nissa), it's not there just because Zendikar is the next block. So no hypocrisy there.
Damn ok. Seems fair then. I think it's silly, especially since 'serum' is a real word outside of magic that makes sense in many contexts, but at least they are consistent.
OH but to piggyback on the fact that Zendikar is fair game for Origins, who knows maybe we will see iok in origins.
I could almost see the Dragon as a curve-topper of sorts in red aggro, where you have him as a one-of or something, and you only cast him when your hand is otherwise empty of anything but lands, and from then on, he gets you two cards a turn unless the opponent kills him. The problem is, by the time you are at 4 mana, the opponent is probably close enough to death that you are better off including just some other burn spell to go to the face, and in most situations, Thunderbreak Regent is just better.
Edit: Maybe there is some reason to play him in a hellbent deck?
Dragon is unplayable in any current tier 1 or tier 2 deck. Can you imagine dropping this on turn 4 and getting it killed? Now you've wasted your critical 4th turn to cast a 4 mana One with Nothing. No thank you. This might have been playable with Haste, where it could at least kill a Lily in the Jund matchup. But with all the hard removal floating around, the 4 toughness isn't even as relevant anymore as it was earlier. This is still a removal magnet that dies too often, and the downside to dying is just too much to risk.
The only place this is playable is against decks that don't have removal, like Infect or Amulet. But even there, you probably want to be racing, not just getting a Bob effect on a big body, and the lack of haste returns to keep the Dragon unplayable.
Hydrolash actually seems fine. It's quasi-Renewed Faith on Cycling mode for 1 more mana in blue colours against one attacking Goyf, it semi-fogs Collected Company beatdown, it makes an Affinity swarm look significantly worse, it makes Souls tokens look awful, it fogs the Twin combo for a turn, and it cantrips! Sadly, you'll be getting the best mileage from this card if you play nearly no blockers or you have 5+ power and 3-4 toughness's worth of blockers (in case you need to block a Siege Rhino).
I'll be testing this hard in UWR (Midrange-)Control and a bunch of other grindy blue decks.
~Mizzium Interferer 2U
Creature - Vedalken Wizard (R)
Flash
When Mizzium Interferer enters the battlefield, you may change one target of target spell or ability to Mizzium Interferer.
1/4
This seems instant playable in Modern.. at least for me. It is hilarious in Twin matchup (or mirrors) that it is very hard to deal with after it steals a Twin... Also good against Bogles or Burn.
Thoughts?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Magic Level 2 Judge Currently Playing:
Standard: Bant Tokens / Jeskai Tutelage
Modern: Temur Twin / GR Tron
Legacy: Miracles / Grixis Delver
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This. Surrak's unplayability is entirely in relation to his colour pie. any colour combination other than UGX and he would have been playable.
Nothing
Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial
EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
TL;DR
1) The "Goblin War Drums ability" is now "Menace" and evergreen
2) Prowess is now evergreen, mostly in blue
3) Scry is now evergreen
For me this says a deck like Ninja-Bear-Delver in mono blue aggro (without merfolk) might be getting a big boost at some point. It also says Serum Visions is much much more likely to be reprinted outside of FNM promos!
TROLLED BY WOTC
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I think that other important parts of the TL;DR are that:
1) Intimidate and Landwalk are not going to be printed anymore
2) Protection is going to become a lot rarer. "Moving forward, protection is moving from what we call evergreen to deciduous. It's a tool in our toolbox that we're allowed to use, but it's not something we expect to use in every set."
Landwalk being gone shouldn't come as a surprise, but Intimidate and Protection kinda surprises me. Shouldn't affect modern too much, but interesting to know.
Honestly, does anyone else feel like MtG is moving more and more towards Hearthstone? It feels like they are just moving more and more towards high P/T creatures with very basic keywords and very little interaction other than permanent removal. (For anyone who does not play Hearthstone, you can only play spells on your turn, 75%+ of your deck is creatures or ways to remove creatures and there is very little interaction beyond that).
It is really sad to see MtG move more and more away from a thoughtful game with lots of different interactions/modes of winning to a lets play big creatures and hit each other over and over.
To be honest I don't see this at all from those changes - menace is the only one which is 100% creature based... Prowess needs a specific deck to really shine, and that deck needs enough non-creature spells (and combat against prowess creatures is much more interesting, since you have to think about anything your opponentn could play at instant speed); scry is great in constructed and limited and offeres some interesting choises and adds consistency.
While Intimidate,landwalk and protection just randomely hoses certain colors/decks, while beeing more or less useless against others.
Wait, they removed three keywords that stifled player interaction, and added three new mechanics that increase player interaction, and you're complaining that the game is getting less thoughtful?
Even if this were the case, it would only affect Standard (Which would give me another reason to avoid it like the plague). Modern would be left untouched.
Visions seems a much likelier reprint than we first thought. If anything, the FNM promo suggests it now more than ever, because it would be a card to drum up both Standard and Modern hype.
A lot of really bad cards, like strictly worse Gideon's Lawkeeper, strictly worse Leonin Scimitar, strictly worse Man-o'-War, Diregraf Ghoul with 1 more toughness for 1 more mana...But they're commons and uncommons after all, so whatever.
The most interesting card is Hydrolash as a budget Cryptic Command, or something that mono-U Tron could play against their terrible aggro matchups. It also stops Twin for one turn and draws you a card LOL
edit: holy crap just look at that MYTHIC Dragon, do you like casting One With Nothing? If you do, you'll love it!
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
NEVERMIND
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/612005-no-serum-visions-in-origins
sorry, didn't mean to jinx it
Well, it's easier to donate than Pyromancer's Swath, I'll give you that.
Sundial + this is like Phyrexian Arena + Tanglebloom.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Edit: Maybe there is some reason to play him in a hellbent deck?
Edit: Avalon beat me to it. And actually the more I think about it the more I'm warming up to the card. Am I crazy in seeing this in Jund as a 1 or 2- of instead of Olivia/Huntmaster? Olivia lands when both players are hellbent (or close to it) anyway. So it's all about what generates the most value at that point.
I really hope that it's not just because of the name. Malakir Cullblade is in Origins... I realize we're on the cusp of a Zendikar set but that's some serious hypocrisy if serum is so specific to mirrodin but Malakir is allowed in Origins.
Zendikar is one of the Origins planes (the plane of origin for Nissa), it's not there just because Zendikar is the next block. So no hypocrisy there.
Damn ok. Seems fair then. I think it's silly, especially since 'serum' is a real word outside of magic that makes sense in many contexts, but at least they are consistent.
OH but to piggyback on the fact that Zendikar is fair game for Origins, who knows maybe we will see iok in origins.
Dragon is unplayable in any current tier 1 or tier 2 deck. Can you imagine dropping this on turn 4 and getting it killed? Now you've wasted your critical 4th turn to cast a 4 mana One with Nothing. No thank you. This might have been playable with Haste, where it could at least kill a Lily in the Jund matchup. But with all the hard removal floating around, the 4 toughness isn't even as relevant anymore as it was earlier. This is still a removal magnet that dies too often, and the downside to dying is just too much to risk.
The only place this is playable is against decks that don't have removal, like Infect or Amulet. But even there, you probably want to be racing, not just getting a Bob effect on a big body, and the lack of haste returns to keep the Dragon unplayable.
sorry, i'm not a photoshop pro
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I'll be testing this hard in UWR (Midrange-)Control and a bunch of other grindy blue decks.
~Mizzium Interferer 2U
Creature - Vedalken Wizard (R)
Flash
When Mizzium Interferer enters the battlefield, you may change one target of target spell or ability to Mizzium Interferer.
1/4
This seems instant playable in Modern.. at least for me. It is hilarious in Twin matchup (or mirrors) that it is very hard to deal with after it steals a Twin... Also good against Bogles or Burn.
Thoughts?
Currently Playing:
Standard: Bant Tokens / Jeskai Tutelage
Modern: Temur Twin / GR Tron
Legacy: Miracles / Grixis Delver