Chandra is a 3-drop that dies to Bolt. Rule of thumb: dying to Bolt is only OK if you cost 2 mana or less. Given her spot on the curve it's quite unlikely that you have 3 red spells to cast in one turn unless you're using Flame Jab + Life from the Loam or something. And if you're using Jab + Loam, your 3-drop should be Seismic Assault.
Jace is Merfolk Looter/Thought Courier with a bigger butt. You can flip him pretty quickly if you play cantrips and fetchlands, but what do you achieve by playing a bunch of cantrips and looting with Jace? You don't get a creature to show for it, and I'm not aware of a combo that involves Merfolk Looter.
Nissa is a slightly more limited Civic Wayfinder/Borderland Ranger. Flipping her is a pipe dream, especially if your deck has mana dorks in place of ramp spells/lands.
Displacement Wave is to Crime // Punishment what Whelming Wave is to Damnation. Bouncing is great against tokens but crap against creature with ETB effects like Finks or Rhino. Generally though, bouncing isn't worth it because it's negative CA. I guess you could call this a fixed Upheaval, but we don't have Psychatog and it's not going to get rid of the opponent's lands.
Why people keep saying that you need three spells to flip Chandra, you actually need two.
Does that really matter? Nobody should seriously think about including her in their Modern decks anyway.
I have done the comparison a few times already but just take a look at Prophetic Flamespeaker for a card with the same mana cost that has a huge upside but that doesn't have haste and dies to Lightning Bolt.
He sees approximately zero play currently and the same will be true for Chandra. Sure people will argue and will try her out anyway but they will learn it for themselves soon enough. History will just repeat itself.
I agree with everybody else in that Chandra and Nissa are unplayable
Jace is somewhat interesting in that he could possibly fit into Reanimator strategies. A loong time ago there was a list that 4-0ed a bunch that used Glimpse the Unthinkable to mill Grisseldaddy into the GY + Goryo's Vengeance that then later could be flashed back with Snappy. Jace would fit in perfectly with that kinda strategy, since he both gives you a discard outlet for grissel + a way to flash back reanimator spells.
Though the shell might not be there for Jace yet - looters are generally not bad and have always been borderline playable to me.
Why people keep saying that you need three spells to flip Chandra, you actually need two.
Actually, you only need one; her flip condition is deal 3 damage, not deal three damage this way. Swing with her, deal two, cast a red spell, untap her, ping with her.
We've had this discussion multiple times in the EDH forums.
As for Modern, completely unplayable. EDH, I think she's gold.
Nissa requires too many lands to use well. Maybe as a backup win con in Scapeshift, if people ever start maindecking enough Slaughter Games effects for other reasons. Jace could see play in Grixis Delver as a secondary win con; a single Thoughtscour + Fetchland means he's flipped turn 3 earliest. Then it's just a matter of upticking him to get to his ult.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
This mechanic has the trappings of a broken mechanic. It's in the same category as delve: it rewards you for just playing Magic, and most Ux decks in Modern could trigger it as early as turn 2 and almost always by turn 3. It will have to depend on the effects, of course.
Think they may try their hand at a functional reprint of Counterspell with this mechanic?
Something like:
Spell Mastery Counterspell
Instant - UU
Counter target spell unless it's controller pays 1
Spell Mastery - If there are two or more instants or sorcery cards in your graveyard counter that spell instead.
I do like the mechanic, but it's either going to be a complete failure with them playing it waaay too safe like they did with Cipher or one or two broken cards will get through and be inevitably banned.
I do like the mechanic, but it's either going to be a complete failure with them playing it waaay too safe like they did with Cipher or one or two broken cards will get through and be inevitably banned.
Guys, can we please not turn every single Modern general thread into a banlist talk? It's inaccurate and misleading for new players, annoying for old ones, and generally bad for the format. Let's just be excited for the set and not turn every discussion into a backhanded doomsaying pulpit.
That aside, I hope the black one isn't a bad Innocent Blood variant.
Think they may try their hand at a functional reprint of Counterspell with this mechanic?
Something like:
Spell Mastery Counterspell
Instant - UU
Counter target spell unless it's controller pays 1
Spell Mastery - If there are two or more instants or sorcery cards in your graveyard counter that spell instead.
I do like the mechanic, but it's either going to be a complete failure with them playing it waaay too safe like they did with Cipher or one or two broken cards will get through and be inevitably banned.
I could really get behind a spell like that. Good early game as it stops people from playing spells on curve, which is exactly what a control deck wants to be doing, while also being a great spell late game and forces people to play cards out of their graveyard with a little more care (so not playing nicely with delve/snap, forcing real deck building choices).
Kid Jace looks promising in those new-fangled Uxx Midrange decks--getting 5 cards in the yard is easy enough, and there are enough ways to lure away removal in those decks. He also protects himself surprisingly well--he holds off a 3/X indefinitely, and he gains loyalty against a 2/X. Tapping him (to flip him) after blocking something with him has got to raise their ire. Now which Uxx decks have enough juicy stuff to "flash back" with his -3, and can he play nice with Delve...
Twin can untap Kid Jace in response to removal, and the other decks can counter removal aimed at him.
As someone who's tried Sarkhan Unbroken in Scapeshift, Kid Nissa looks like the better alt win con. She actually does something against aggro early-game, unlike RUG Sarkhan the Slow, and when I play her when I have 7 lands, I probably have a fetch, so if they try to kill her while I play my eighth land, I crack the fetch in response and flip her anyway. A legendary 4/4 isn't much of a win con, true, but she is a draw engine the rest of the time if she isn't taken out. ...And a 4/4 protects her mighty fine.
Kid Jace looks promising in those new-fangled Uxx Midrange decks--getting 5 cards in the yard is easy enough, and there are enough ways to lure away removal in those decks. He also protects himself surprisingly well--he holds off a 3/X indefinitely, and he gains loyalty against a 2/X. Tapping him (to flip him) after blocking something with him has got to raise their ire. Now which Uxx decks have enough juicy stuff to "flash back" with his -3, and can he play nice with Delve...
Twin can untap Kid Jace in response to removal, and the other decks can counter removal aimed at him.
As someone who's tried Sarkhan Unbroken in Scapeshift, Kid Nissa looks like the better alt win con. She actually does something against aggro early-game, unlike RUG Sarkhan the Slow, and when I play her when I have 7 lands, I probably have a fetch, so if they try to kill her while I play my eighth land, I crack the fetch in response and flip her anyway. A legendary 4/4 isn't much of a win con, true, but she is a draw engine the rest of the time if she isn't taken out. ...And a 4/4 protects her mighty fine.
I do like the mechanic, but it's either going to be a complete failure with them playing it waaay too safe like they did with Cipher or one or two broken cards will get through and be inevitably banned.
Guys, can we please not turn every single Modern general thread into a banlist talk? It's inaccurate and misleading for new players, annoying for old ones, and generally bad for the format. Let's just be excited for the set and not turn every discussion into a backhanded doomsaying pulpit.
That aside, I hope the black one isn't a bad Innocent Blood variant.
I suppose by that you mean:
Guilty Blood1B
Instant
Each player sacrifices a creature. Spell Mastery- If there are two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard, target player sacrifices a creature instead.
I wouldn't consider that unplayable at all actually. Turning that card into a pure Diabolic Edict is trivial between casting two spells and/or not playing a creature. Liliana is still the better edict effect, but this would be better than any other edict we have in modern currently.
I do like the mechanic, but it's either going to be a complete failure with them playing it waaay too safe like they did with Cipher or one or two broken cards will get through and be inevitably banned.
Guys, can we please not turn every single Modern general thread into a banlist talk? It's inaccurate and misleading for new players, annoying for old ones, and generally bad for the format. Let's just be excited for the set and not turn every discussion into a backhanded doomsaying pulpit.
That aside, I hope the black one isn't a bad Innocent Blood variant.
I suppose by that you mean:
Guilty Blood1B
Instant
Each player sacrifices a creature. Spell Mastery- If there are two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard, target player sacrifices a creature instead.
I wouldn't consider that unplayable at all actually. Turning that card into a pure Diabolic Edict is trivial between casting two spells and/or not playing a creature. Liliana is still the better edict effect, but this would be better than any other edict we have in modern currently.
I still don't see how Diabolic Edict hasn't been reprinted in Standard. It is perfectly fair conditional removal, and conditional removal is what Wizards wants at 2 mana now.
Kid Jace looks promising in those new-fangled Uxx Midrange decks--getting 5 cards in the yard is easy enough, and there are enough ways to lure away removal in those decks. He also protects himself surprisingly well--he holds off a 3/X indefinitely, and he gains loyalty against a 2/X. Tapping him (to flip him) after blocking something with him has got to raise their ire. Now which Uxx decks have enough juicy stuff to "flash back" with his -3, and can he play nice with Delve...
Twin can untap Kid Jace in response to removal, and the other decks can counter removal aimed at him.
As someone who's tried Sarkhan Unbroken in Scapeshift, Kid Nissa looks like the better alt win con. She actually does something against aggro early-game, unlike RUG Sarkhan the Slow, and when I play her when I have 7 lands, I probably have a fetch, so if they try to kill her while I play my eighth land, I crack the fetch in response and flip her anyway. A legendary 4/4 isn't much of a win con, true, but she is a draw engine the rest of the time if she isn't taken out. ...And a 4/4 protects her mighty fine.
Garruk 1.0 can't find lands, and I need 7-8 lands for that Scapeshift to be any good.
One testing game with Kid Nissa so far and I already lost that game by not playing Nissa and getting that land early. Dagnabbit, one land away from the combo with back-up...only treat Nissa as an alt win con if I have 7+ lands when I draw her...
Spell mastery seems spicy, probably not in this set but when they will revisit it in the future (like with many Keyword/Ability at the first apparition they ALWAYS go very careful).
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
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Jace is Merfolk Looter/Thought Courier with a bigger butt. You can flip him pretty quickly if you play cantrips and fetchlands, but what do you achieve by playing a bunch of cantrips and looting with Jace? You don't get a creature to show for it, and I'm not aware of a combo that involves Merfolk Looter.
Nissa is a slightly more limited Civic Wayfinder/Borderland Ranger. Flipping her is a pipe dream, especially if your deck has mana dorks in place of ramp spells/lands.
Displacement Wave is to Crime // Punishment what Whelming Wave is to Damnation. Bouncing is great against tokens but crap against creature with ETB effects like Finks or Rhino. Generally though, bouncing isn't worth it because it's negative CA. I guess you could call this a fixed Upheaval, but we don't have Psychatog and it's not going to get rid of the opponent's lands.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Does that really matter? Nobody should seriously think about including her in their Modern decks anyway.
I have done the comparison a few times already but just take a look at Prophetic Flamespeaker for a card with the same mana cost that has a huge upside but that doesn't have haste and dies to Lightning Bolt.
He sees approximately zero play currently and the same will be true for Chandra. Sure people will argue and will try her out anyway but they will learn it for themselves soon enough. History will just repeat itself.
Jace is somewhat interesting in that he could possibly fit into Reanimator strategies. A loong time ago there was a list that 4-0ed a bunch that used Glimpse the Unthinkable to mill Grisseldaddy into the GY + Goryo's Vengeance that then later could be flashed back with Snappy. Jace would fit in perfectly with that kinda strategy, since he both gives you a discard outlet for grissel + a way to flash back reanimator spells.
Though the shell might not be there for Jace yet - looters are generally not bad and have always been borderline playable to me.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Actually, you only need one; her flip condition is deal 3 damage, not deal three damage this way. Swing with her, deal two, cast a red spell, untap her, ping with her.
We've had this discussion multiple times in the EDH forums.
As for Modern, completely unplayable. EDH, I think she's gold.
Nissa requires too many lands to use well. Maybe as a backup win con in Scapeshift, if people ever start maindecking enough Slaughter Games effects for other reasons. Jace could see play in Grixis Delver as a secondary win con; a single Thoughtscour + Fetchland means he's flipped turn 3 earliest. Then it's just a matter of upticking him to get to his ult.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I didn't say a needed backup win con
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
That is gonna be dangerous
I guess you like Fall of the Hammer, right?
This mechanic has the trappings of a broken mechanic. It's in the same category as delve: it rewards you for just playing Magic, and most Ux decks in Modern could trigger it as early as turn 2 and almost always by turn 3. It will have to depend on the effects, of course.
I would bet it's going to be a mill spell, and with that in mind I feel it is pretty far-fetched that it will be busted.
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
U
Instant
Target player draws a card
Spell Mastery - Target player draws two cards
Something like:
Spell Mastery Counterspell
Instant - UU
Counter target spell unless it's controller pays 1
Spell Mastery - If there are two or more instants or sorcery cards in your graveyard counter that spell instead.
I do like the mechanic, but it's either going to be a complete failure with them playing it waaay too safe like they did with Cipher or one or two broken cards will get through and be inevitably banned.
Guys, can we please not turn every single Modern general thread into a banlist talk? It's inaccurate and misleading for new players, annoying for old ones, and generally bad for the format. Let's just be excited for the set and not turn every discussion into a backhanded doomsaying pulpit.
That aside, I hope the black one isn't a bad Innocent Blood variant.
Im still in pain about Dead Drop. So overcosted for what is does...
I actually hope it's a decent discard spell. Maybe a nod to Hymn to Tourach? A man can dream
I could really get behind a spell like that. Good early game as it stops people from playing spells on curve, which is exactly what a control deck wants to be doing, while also being a great spell late game and forces people to play cards out of their graveyard with a little more care (so not playing nicely with delve/snap, forcing real deck building choices).
Lets hope WotC sees the potential
Twin can untap Kid Jace in response to removal, and the other decks can counter removal aimed at him.
As someone who's tried Sarkhan Unbroken in Scapeshift, Kid Nissa looks like the better alt win con. She actually does something against aggro early-game, unlike RUG Sarkhan the Slow, and when I play her when I have 7 lands, I probably have a fetch, so if they try to kill her while I play my eighth land, I crack the fetch in response and flip her anyway. A legendary 4/4 isn't much of a win con, true, but she is a draw engine the rest of the time if she isn't taken out. ...And a 4/4 protects her mighty fine.
Nissa still seems pretty bad compared to Garruk Wildspeaker.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I suppose by that you mean:
Guilty Blood 1B
Instant
Each player sacrifices a creature.
Spell Mastery- If there are two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard, target player sacrifices a creature instead.
I wouldn't consider that unplayable at all actually. Turning that card into a pure Diabolic Edict is trivial between casting two spells and/or not playing a creature. Liliana is still the better edict effect, but this would be better than any other edict we have in modern currently.
Cubetutor Link
Now that being said I would love to see a reasonably costed tutor (two mana, pretty please?!) with spell mastery tacked on it.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
I still don't see how Diabolic Edict hasn't been reprinted in Standard. It is perfectly fair conditional removal, and conditional removal is what Wizards wants at 2 mana now.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Garruk 1.0 can't find lands, and I need 7-8 lands for that Scapeshift to be any good.
One testing game with Kid Nissa so far and I already lost that game by not playing Nissa and getting that land early. Dagnabbit, one land away from the combo with back-up...only treat Nissa as an alt win con if I have 7+ lands when I draw her...
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater