+will almost always be a 2 for 1
+can counter counterspells by changing the target to Redirect itself
+can "counter" Abrupt Decay
+can shoot burn spells right back at the player (or their Goblin Guides)
+can bounce discard spells back to their owner when on the play
+can put Splinter Twin on the wrong creature, even yours
-UU is awkward to keep open
-can not deal with creature spells or abilities
-entirely reactionary
-needs to be in a creature-based deck
I think this card has a lot of potential to be good in Modern. It has a lot of powerful plays against almost all of the top tier decks and the potential for blowouts is massive. The biggest challenge is to find a home for this effect: its main power lies in Redirecting removal spells, but that requires a creature-based deck. Now that isn't a big problem in Modern, but not many decks can hold open UU: blue-based aggro/tempo decks like Merfolk and delver probably can't afford such a thing.
I think the card could shine in a blue midrange strategy, like BUG, RUG or UWR. These kinds of strategies benefit the most from the card advantage Redirect can offer, and have no issue with holding up mana.
This card would only shine in a blue midrange strategy and all the good midrange decks are BGx. So you're limited to just BUG midrange, and there's so many better cards for that build than redirect.
When it comes to cards like this, the only one that sees play is Misdirection (yes I know its not Modern legal), and that's because you can cast it for free. This is just much, much worse.
Divert also sees play in Legacy. And it being worse than those two is not an argument: Mana Leak is much worse than Counterspell, but it still does see a ton of play.
I also disagree that BUG is the only option. Contraty to popular belief, there have been other cards printed that aren't Abrupt Decay
Divert also sees play in Legacy. And it being worse than those two is not an argument: Mana Leak is much worse than Counterspell, but it still does see a ton of play.
I also disagree that BUG is the only option. Contraty to popular belief, there have been other cards printed that aren't Abrupt Decay
And Abrupt Decay is better than a substantial portion of them. To me, if you're playing a fair midrange deck, playing any colors outside of BGx is a huge, huge mistake. You give up way too many options by eschewing that shell to the point where I'd argue BGx is just a strictly better shell for midrange than any other color combination.
Redirect is a trap. Compare it to Negate - Negate counters basically everything that Redirect "counters" other than Abrupt Decay, but it only costs 1U, works every single time, and even hits some stuff that Redirect doesn't (e.g. enchantments, PWs, cards that say "you" or "target opponent" instead of "target player"). Redirect is flashier, but unreliable: the potential payoff is higher, but sometimes you'll just fail to do anything because you couldn't get UU or there wasn't another target to redirect to. If you look at Legacy you'll see Spell Pierce being played a lot more than Divert, for the same reason.
In a sense it's quite similar to Countersquall: plain old Negate does the same thing, Countersquall gives you a bonus of making them lose 2 life in exchange for costing UB instead of 1U. Ultimately, consistently countering your opponent's spells matters more than the bells and whistles of "lose 2 life", so Countersquall sees zero play while Negate frequently manages to find its way into blue SBs.
If you're worried about removal spells killing your key creatures, Spellskite is better. Any color can play Spellskite.
Question for the day: Redirect is great against Abrupt Decay in theory, but would you SB Redirect (or keep it in the main) against BGx?
P.S. "but izzet, Countersquall sees zero play because UB is a bad color combination!" - no, I don't buy that, Grixis Delver can play it and it doesn't.
P.S. "but izzet, Countersquall sees zero play because UB is a bad color combination!" - no, I don't buy that, Grixis Delver can play it and it doesn't.
Yeah, but does it play Negate at all? Countersquall seems a lot better than Negate in that deck.
I've been playing a single Redirect in my UR Twin sideboard and its been hilariously effective. Haven't tried it in a large tournament yet (only local FNM and such) but it's been effective against Abrupt Decay and has managed to Get Em(tm) by redirecting a Splinter Twin onto my own Deceiver Exarch.
That said, as has been stated, Negate and Spellskite are a probably more competitive options. But if you want to have a damn good time, play Redirect
Huh, that's really odd. You'd think such an aggressive deck would welcome some extra life loss. Perhaps the deckbuilder forgot that Countersquall exists?
Your comparison is completely discounting how you can decay something they own.
You're referring to what we like to call "magical Christmas land." The times you'll be able to do that are significantly less than the times Redirect will sit in your hand doing absolutely nothing.
Huh, that's really odd. You'd think such an aggressive deck would welcome some extra life loss. Perhaps the deckbuilder forgot that Countersquall exists?
Delver has an extremely greedy manabase as it is, it can't really afford to play the card and make a painful manabase even moreso.
Ya well the way to view expected value is (Probability)*(Increase in Win Rate). So what the question is, whats the probability that you cast a spell, your opponent counters it and you have UU open; or the chances that both players have a creature in play and your opponent tries to remove your creature and you have UU. Feel free to use commonly accepted lingo that really amounts to nothing more than McDonalds saying "I'm lovin' it" or "Real. American. Jeans." But I'm going to say that this "magic Christmas land" or creatures, counters and removal being cast happens more in the modern format then you think.
It's not a competitive card because it's way too situational - a lot of things have to line up for it to be good, and you'd rather have something that does work every time. Bird in the hand and all that.
That said, I jam one in every blue casual deck I build. It's just such a fun card to play. I love it to bits in EDH and Tiny and homemade duel deck sets.
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Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Your comparison is completely discounting how you can decay something they own.
You're referring to what we like to call "magical Christmas land." The times you'll be able to do that are significantly less than the times Redirect will sit in your hand doing absolutely nothing.
Huh, that's really odd. You'd think such an aggressive deck would welcome some extra life loss. Perhaps the deckbuilder forgot that Countersquall exists?
Delver has an extremely greedy manabase as it is, it can't really afford to play the card and make a painful manabase even moreso.
I think you're incorrect, The mana base is fine--it does play blood moon after all. The problem is that its still a base UR deck, as opposed to a UBr deck.
I played countersquall over negates in 4c gifts--and never didn't have the mana when I needed it that made me wish I had negates instead. If UR delver played fastlands or creeping tarpits, we'd see the switch--but the incentive to go overly to the black side of the spectrum simply isn't there.
I've also been blown out by redirect out of merfolk, which can struggle in BGx matchup because all it takes is a goyf or two to outclass n any decent merfolk board presence--I think the card has a home as 1 of there, and no where else.
I think you're incorrect, The mana base is fine--it does play blood moon after all. The problem is that its still a base UR deck, as opposed to a UBr deck.
I played countersquall over negates in 4c gifts--and never didn't have the mana when I needed it that made me wish I had negates instead. If UR delver played fastlands or creeping tarpits, we'd see the switch--but the incentive to go overly to the black side of the spectrum simply isn't there.
It's because you can cast Negate off of a basic mountain and a single blue source. That might not seem relevant as you'll usually have multiple blue sources, but being able to counter something and still have blue mana available for a cantrip or a second counter in matches where you board in these cards is vital.
Redirect's mana requirements are even worse in this respect for delver, as it can't be cast off of Blood Crypt or Swamp. Swerve is a less mana-intensive alternative, but it can't redirect Electrolyze and can't use mana from Swamp - just like Countersquall and Mountain.
If we saw a version of the effect that cost 1U it would be a serious contender.
When it comes to cards like this, the only one that sees play is Misdirection (yes I know its not Modern legal), and that's because you can cast it for free. This is just much, much worse.
I actually just picked up a copy of redirect last week to try out in my BUG control. I don't ever see it as more than a 1-of but it definitely has blow out potential and it isn't that hard to set up as I'm holding up Ux anyway. The problem is the variance on the return. In tight games where I'm trading 1 for 1 means it can win the game for me, or lose it simply by lack of a target. I still think it's worth trying in modern. Also comparing similar cards across eternal formats doesn't work. Too many differences when one is creature based and the other isn't.
I play 2 redirect in UWR Twin side: decay is good, but even combust can be redirected, and this is something spellskite can't do.
I think is a good card and can be surly played, but not like a counter, becuase the big thing about negate is can counter a walker, redirect, ofc, can't.
Is a good side plan for combo...even in main can make sense, but don't see him like a counter, because at CMC 2 counter non creature, non walker, non enchantment and non tergeting spells
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My Decks on Paper: UWR Control/Midrange/Delver UWR Twin Miss you GBWJunk (still semi-budget; 3 tarmo only) GWAura Hexproof GWHatebears
Huh, that's really odd. You'd think such an aggressive deck would welcome some extra life loss. Perhaps the deckbuilder forgot that Countersquall exists?
Delver has an extremely greedy manabase as it is, it can't really afford to play the card and make a painful manabase even moreso.
Orrrrr people just don't like going outside the box of what's considered good or not. I ran Grixis Delver before Tasigur was released. I used three Countersqualls and cast them every time I needed to.
Mind you, mine was more UBr (Splashing Red for Bolt and YP) than URb.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Redirect is outstanding, you have to use it to really appreciate it. The idea that it's "magic xmas land" to redirect abrupt decay to opponents stuff is ludicrous, i've done it a whole lot. Who plays abrupt decay? Oh, the dudes with bob, liliana, goyf, etc? No targets for decay there...
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
I play 1 in the main of Grixis Delver. The card is awesome. Sled_Dog is correct above. It's also a way better counterspell against discard spells. It works against Burn which is one of our worst matchups. The card is a 2 for 1 all day long.
Huh, that's really odd. You'd think such an aggressive deck would welcome some extra life loss. Perhaps the deckbuilder forgot that Countersquall exists?
It has to do with the fact that the black isn't free. Having UB early frequently means shocking yourself for that black. Delver even as Grixis is Blue first, Red second, and Black third. Countersquall really needs a deck that's blue and black as the primary and secondary colors.
Redirect effects are blowouts when they work. Sadly, I can't depend on it as a protection spell for my Twin combo when it can't redirect a simple Path to Exile against UWR aimed at my Exarch if the only creature on the battlefield is my Exarch. That's probably a fair bit of why Redirect is rare in Modern. ...That and Spellskite reliably redirects that PtE and hoses every deck that depends on targeting stuff to work (e.g. Bogles, Infect, Twin when it leans on the combo, sometimes Burn).
Redirect also looks mighty sucky against Affinity, which will probably expose only Galvanic Blast (I suppose you can peg one of their bazillion guys with it) and Ensoul Artifact (a 5/5 Memnite is still scary, even if it's no 5/5 Darksteel Citadel or 5/5 Vault Skirge).
Redirect would be substantially better if it cost 1 mana (so it could redirect Turn 1 targeted discard when the Redirect player is on the play) or was replaced with Misdirection (so it could even redirect Turn 1 targeted discard when the redirector is on the draw).
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+will almost always be a 2 for 1
+can counter counterspells by changing the target to Redirect itself
+can "counter" Abrupt Decay
+can shoot burn spells right back at the player (or their Goblin Guides)
+can bounce discard spells back to their owner when on the play
+can put Splinter Twin on the wrong creature, even yours
-UU is awkward to keep open
-can not deal with creature spells or abilities
-entirely reactionary
-needs to be in a creature-based deck
I think this card has a lot of potential to be good in Modern. It has a lot of powerful plays against almost all of the top tier decks and the potential for blowouts is massive. The biggest challenge is to find a home for this effect: its main power lies in Redirecting removal spells, but that requires a creature-based deck. Now that isn't a big problem in Modern, but not many decks can hold open UU: blue-based aggro/tempo decks like Merfolk and delver probably can't afford such a thing.
I think the card could shine in a blue midrange strategy, like BUG, RUG or UWR. These kinds of strategies benefit the most from the card advantage Redirect can offer, and have no issue with holding up mana.
When it comes to cards like this, the only one that sees play is Misdirection (yes I know its not Modern legal), and that's because you can cast it for free. This is just much, much worse.
I also disagree that BUG is the only option. Contraty to popular belief, there have been other cards printed that aren't Abrupt Decay
And Abrupt Decay is better than a substantial portion of them. To me, if you're playing a fair midrange deck, playing any colors outside of BGx is a huge, huge mistake. You give up way too many options by eschewing that shell to the point where I'd argue BGx is just a strictly better shell for midrange than any other color combination.
In a sense it's quite similar to Countersquall: plain old Negate does the same thing, Countersquall gives you a bonus of making them lose 2 life in exchange for costing UB instead of 1U. Ultimately, consistently countering your opponent's spells matters more than the bells and whistles of "lose 2 life", so Countersquall sees zero play while Negate frequently manages to find its way into blue SBs.
If you're worried about removal spells killing your key creatures, Spellskite is better. Any color can play Spellskite.
Question for the day: Redirect is great against Abrupt Decay in theory, but would you SB Redirect (or keep it in the main) against BGx?
P.S. "but izzet, Countersquall sees zero play because UB is a bad color combination!" - no, I don't buy that, Grixis Delver can play it and it doesn't.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Yeah, but does it play Negate at all? Countersquall seems a lot better than Negate in that deck.
That said, as has been stated, Negate and Spellskite are a probably more competitive options. But if you want to have a damn good time, play Redirect
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
You're referring to what we like to call "magical Christmas land." The times you'll be able to do that are significantly less than the times Redirect will sit in your hand doing absolutely nothing.
Delver has an extremely greedy manabase as it is, it can't really afford to play the card and make a painful manabase even moreso.
That said, I jam one in every blue casual deck I build. It's just such a fun card to play. I love it to bits in EDH and Tiny and homemade duel deck sets.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
I think you're incorrect, The mana base is fine--it does play blood moon after all. The problem is that its still a base UR deck, as opposed to a UBr deck.
I played countersquall over negates in 4c gifts--and never didn't have the mana when I needed it that made me wish I had negates instead. If UR delver played fastlands or creeping tarpits, we'd see the switch--but the incentive to go overly to the black side of the spectrum simply isn't there.
I've also been blown out by redirect out of merfolk, which can struggle in BGx matchup because all it takes is a goyf or two to outclass n any decent merfolk board presence--I think the card has a home as 1 of there, and no where else.
Redirect's mana requirements are even worse in this respect for delver, as it can't be cast off of Blood Crypt or Swamp. Swerve is a less mana-intensive alternative, but it can't redirect Electrolyze and can't use mana from Swamp - just like Countersquall and Mountain.
If we saw a version of the effect that cost 1U it would be a serious contender.
The effect wouldn't see play until it was 1 mana.
Actually, a Miracles list with Redirect made all the way to the finals of GP Kyoto: http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpkyo15
WURUWr Stoneblade
Modern
WRGNaya Zoo Company
I think is a good card and can be surly played, but not like a counter, becuase the big thing about negate is can counter a walker, redirect, ofc, can't.
Is a good side plan for combo...even in main can make sense, but don't see him like a counter, because at CMC 2 counter non creature, non walker, non enchantment and non tergeting spells
UWR Control/Midrange/Delver
UWR TwinMiss youGBWJunk (still semi-budget; 3 tarmo only)
GWAura Hexproof
GWHatebears
Orrrrr people just don't like going outside the box of what's considered good or not. I ran Grixis Delver before Tasigur was released. I used three Countersqualls and cast them every time I needed to.
Mind you, mine was more UBr (Splashing Red for Bolt and YP) than URb.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
It has to do with the fact that the black isn't free. Having UB early frequently means shocking yourself for that black. Delver even as Grixis is Blue first, Red second, and Black third. Countersquall really needs a deck that's blue and black as the primary and secondary colors.
Redirect also looks mighty sucky against Affinity, which will probably expose only Galvanic Blast (I suppose you can peg one of their bazillion guys with it) and Ensoul Artifact (a 5/5 Memnite is still scary, even if it's no 5/5 Darksteel Citadel or 5/5 Vault Skirge).
Redirect would be substantially better if it cost 1 mana (so it could redirect Turn 1 targeted discard when the Redirect player is on the play) or was replaced with Misdirection (so it could even redirect Turn 1 targeted discard when the redirector is on the draw).