Nissa revane produces card advantage by basically being +1: Make a 2/3 for 4 mana. Garruk wildspeaker used to be a powerhouse when he was released and he -1'ed to make a 3/3 granted untapping with him is basically sol ring but elves decks usually have plenty of mana anyways. Not to mention the gain 2 life per elf uptick can be gamebreaking because if your opponent can't win that tends to be very good.
Tibalt without random discard is one of the best walkers ever printed because he's a merfolk looter in red with 2 more abilities as well as haste. With the random....have to heavily build around him to have him be consistently good and not just luck where you discard what you wanted to discard but the odds are stacked against you typically in that minigame.
Living guildpact I would rate above tibalt. Jace at least has a fat ass loyalty and is blue and grants you real card selection. Tibalt does not. Sure living guildpact is still a pile but if living guildpact is a pile tibalt is a landfill. I'd easily rate original chandra and ablaze above tibalt because nalaar can come down and instantly kill some creature/be at parity and affect the board. Ablaze's minus ability can produce card advantage as well not to mention really mess up some peoples hands. Ablazes plus isn't bad either it's basically turning any red card you discard into a lightning blast granted it isn't card advantage but her first and second ability have pretty incredible synergy. So she didn't cut it in a very powerful standard environment being 6 mana so what. If that's supposed to be surprising I don't have the faintest clue as to why it is.
I'm not convinced that Nissa is usable in anything that's not edh because: she dies to absolutely everything, she requires you to run a mediocre elf in your deck, and if you are gaining a lot of life then you are already winning the game anyways so you don't need nissa.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Have you ever come across a stalled out board state? I'm not saying the lifegain is some fantastic ability always but in the right situation it is ridiculous. Nissa doesn't die to abrupt decay so no she doesn't die to everything. What are you going to say next, liliana of the veil is bad because after she enters play and -2's she dies to gut shot? Let's say you tutor out a 2/3 with nissa and she dies to a lightning bolt just so you know you're up a card at that point. While magic isn't pure card advantage wars anymore it certainly isn't bad to be up cards. She is still vastly superior to tibalt, who can only provide card advantage with other cards but by himself is bat***** ******* awful. Tibalt has helped people win a handful of games over the course of his life. Nissa has won far more games than tibalt I would wager. Only good to come of tibalt is what izzetmage posted.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Tibault was horribly unplayable in standard, when there were plenty of ways to abuse the GY with gravecrawler, snapcaster mage, lingering souls, unburial rites, ect. If you want to play a red planes walker play Chandra, Pyromaster.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
The "random" wording seems to turn most players off but to me it is meaningless.
Consider several scenarios where Tibalt, goblin lore or burning inquiry would be amazing and that do happen more often than not:
- You have a 1 land hand with burning inquiry. If you play it turn 1, you can screw over your opponent while also digging and fixing your hand since you will have a higher chance to keep drawn lands.
- You have a 5 land hand with tibalt/goblin lore. Essentially you can trade in your lands for what you need.
- With tibalt on the field, the board is stalled and you draw a card with nothing in hand. You now have a 50% out to fix your hand repeatedly while also deterring your opponent from accumulating cards.
- If you play loam/dredge/storm or any sort of ascension deck, Tibalt can easily dig you pieces for the yard and fix your draws.
Back in the standard legal days, I used to play Oros Reanimator sporting Tibalt and he never let me down.
The best part of this is that as expressed by almost everyone in this thread, they would rather keep removal in their hand than to kill him. And often, after he has fulfilled his use, they kill him too late.
I hope everyone keeps bashing on him so that he can go be useful and unscathed.
Burning Inquiry and Chandra Ablaze actually make a sweet combo. I don't have a decklist and I'm not about to scour the greater internet for one so please don't ask. But this was played in a standard deck at the time for a short while. So technically she was considered standard playable in her day, and really the first standard playable 6 drop planwswalker as well; if only in a fringe capacity.
As for the topic of Tibalt in modern I'm afraid your efforts at bring him to a higher profile competitive event will be extremely disapointing. I have on the other hand had pleanty of fun at the kitchen table. In the world of casual play I can personally say he is fun in legacy, modern, and planechase as well as edh for sure. If almost every card in your deck has either flashback, unearth, or in legacy's case madness he actually functions respectably like a true planeswalker. I know these are kinds of deck's that are warped around Tibalt that couldn't hack it at a competitive event. I don't usually allow fetches, shock, and original duals at my kitchen table so decks aren't crazy out of hand. (I do own a complete set of shocks, fetches, and a handful of original duals but many of my magic playing friends don't so I play without.)
Nissa is completely UNusable in edh. You’re only going to be able to use her first +1 once per game, and the moderate lifegain isn’t going to be significant enough against most edh decks. Warning issued for necroing a thread. If this topic interests you, feel free to make a new thread for it! --CavalryWolfPack
I'm not convinced that Nissa is usable in anything that's not edh because: she dies to absolutely everything, she requires you to run a mediocre elf in your deck, and if you are gaining a lot of life then you are already winning the game anyways so you don't need nissa.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-jacob-wilson-modern-troll-merfolk/
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Currently Playing:
Retired
The Wilson-Hayne Troll deck series is great.
Gotta respect game 2 Tibbers and Hide's Second Right from now on.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
The "random" wording seems to turn most players off but to me it is meaningless.
Consider several scenarios where Tibalt, goblin lore or burning inquiry would be amazing and that do happen more often than not:
- You have a 1 land hand with burning inquiry. If you play it turn 1, you can screw over your opponent while also digging and fixing your hand since you will have a higher chance to keep drawn lands.
- You have a 5 land hand with tibalt/goblin lore. Essentially you can trade in your lands for what you need.
- With tibalt on the field, the board is stalled and you draw a card with nothing in hand. You now have a 50% out to fix your hand repeatedly while also deterring your opponent from accumulating cards.
- If you play loam/dredge/storm or any sort of ascension deck, Tibalt can easily dig you pieces for the yard and fix your draws.
Back in the standard legal days, I used to play Oros Reanimator sporting Tibalt and he never let me down.
The best part of this is that as expressed by almost everyone in this thread, they would rather keep removal in their hand than to kill him. And often, after he has fulfilled his use, they kill him too late.
I hope everyone keeps bashing on him so that he can go be useful and unscathed.
RETIRED - GAME SUCKS
Modern:
UUUMerfolksUUU
RGoblinsR
Ad Nauseam
BR 8 Racks RB
WUB Mill BUW
Legacy:
XOps! All splels! X
What I think of MaRo
As for the topic of Tibalt in modern I'm afraid your efforts at bring him to a higher profile competitive event will be extremely disapointing. I have on the other hand had pleanty of fun at the kitchen table. In the world of casual play I can personally say he is fun in legacy, modern, and planechase as well as edh for sure. If almost every card in your deck has either flashback, unearth, or in legacy's case madness he actually functions respectably like a true planeswalker. I know these are kinds of deck's that are warped around Tibalt that couldn't hack it at a competitive event. I don't usually allow fetches, shock, and original duals at my kitchen table so decks aren't crazy out of hand. (I do own a complete set of shocks, fetches, and a handful of original duals but many of my magic playing friends don't so I play without.)
Thread here
GW Emeria Titan
WB Tokens
Warning issued for necroing a thread. If this topic interests you, feel free to make a new thread for it! --CavalryWolfPack
Locked!