If you're turning Wurmcoil Engine sideways and it gets Path'd, then what? Sower gives you a sweet lategame because if you steal manlands you can recover from those blowout plays. Everyone plays utility lands in Modern. It's hard to get killed as Tron before you can reach "Emmy mana" (which already isn't hard to get to in that deck) when Sower is giving you sweet goodies like Glimmerpost that gain you life back. Don't want to talk about bans in this thread but I don't see Modern surviving long after BFZ.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Tron doesn't lack good value plays when it comes to 8+ mana, they have plenty of ground breaking spells at that point. It's not the lack of hard to deal with threats that keeps them from dominating. It's the fact that a lot of decks can kill them before they get to the mid/late game (Burn, Twin etc.)
I don't think that Sower is gonna be played in any Tron lists. I think that the chances of a mono Green Tron list with Primeval Titans starting to show up is a lot greater
Don't want to talk about bans in this thread but I don't see Modern surviving long after BFZ.
Didn't you say that about Day's Undoing as well?
This feels like it's going to be off topic in a hurry. As does the (ridiculous) prediction that Modern won't survive BFZ after we have seen 7 cards spoiled.
Enemy manlands would be awesome and could help out a lot of two-colored decks. But a UR manland could be a bit scary in Twin as a Plan C, so there's that to think about.
Eh, the twin plan B of beatdown with snaps/mites is somewhat anemic, a relevant manland would make it more robust but probably still not that great. I think I'm actually more afraid of a UR fastland regarding twin.
The beatdown plan doesn't have to be too great with Bolt/Snap/Bolt though. As long as you can get them down to 12ish, the beatdown plan becomes real (especially if you're on Grixis and running Tasigur as well). I'd love an UR manland.
UR fastlands would also be amazing, though slightly less so.
Edit: Though I'd like to say that the predictions of enemy colored lands need to be looked at a bit critically with the reprint of the enemy painlands in Origins. IMO it points to an allied land cycle in BFZ (at least in the first set).
If you're turning Wurmcoil Engine sideways and it gets Path'd, then what? Sower gives you a sweet lategame because if you steal manlands you can recover from those blowout plays. Everyone plays utility lands in Modern. It's hard to get killed as Tron before you can reach "Emmy mana" (which already isn't hard to get to in that deck) when Sower is giving you sweet goodies like Glimmerpost that gain you life back. Don't want to talk about bans in this thread but I don't see Modern surviving long after BFZ.
This seems highly illogical. You are saying that Tron is going to get broken because it can play a 6-drop that puts 1-2 non-Tron lands into play. That is much less impactful than Tron's other options. Also, Path to Exile sees almost no play nowadays, so Wurmcoil is almost never getting Pathed. Finally, the only deck that players lifegain lands for Sower to steal is Amulet, which the lifegain is mostly irrelevant against. There really are very few utility lands that Tron would actually want to steal against the decks that they are in. At least Day's Undoing looked like it could possibly break Modern.
If you're turning Wurmcoil Engine sideways and it gets Path'd, then what? Sower gives you a sweet lategame because if you steal manlands you can recover from those blowout plays. Everyone plays utility lands in Modern. It's hard to get killed as Tron before you can reach "Emmy mana" (which already isn't hard to get to in that deck) when Sower is giving you sweet goodies like Glimmerpost that gain you life back. Don't want to talk about bans in this thread but I don't see Modern surviving long after BFZ.
Modern will be fine. If you are at the point where you have karn/ugin on board with a fatty you have probably stabilized and are about to take control of the game. Getting extra lands isn't that great maybe an eldrazi that lets you cast a creature or other spell for free will see play but it wont kill modern.
Well it's been confirmed that our dear friend Jace is in Zendikar again. Wizards, I believe it's time that control players got a great planeswalker again. We have 2 shots at it with Nahiri (stoneforge mystic worshiped her) and with Jace.
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Don't want to talk about bans in this thread but I don't see Modern surviving long after BFZ.
Didn't you say that about Day's Undoing as well?
wow, after 7 cards,none of which I really see getting much play, if any? I know there is a lot of doomsaying on this forum, but I have to admit, I'm impressed, you have perfected doomsaying :/
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Let's try to see best-case scenarios involving Oblivion Sower in RG Tron:
Relic of Progenitus: O. Sower cheats a bunch of fetchlands into play the majority of the time. Fetching for 1-2 basic Forests is fine. Cheating out Flooded Strand is no fun, though. Here's hoping that your opponent Thought Scoured or Liliana of the Veil +1'd himself or herself a bunch just so you can cheat in some lands that tap for mana.
Karn Liberated: Now you're talking. Karn actually exiles lands that tap for mana with his +4 and -3. O. Sower just might bring in the final push to kill that combo player with Emrakul.
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon: RG Tron doesn't play anything that colours up lands, so Ugin's only chance of exiling lands is exiling manlands (that defended and didn't die) and Dryad Arbor. Guess what--non-midrange combo doesn't play those lands.
Note that none of these consider how many lands you can steal with O. Sower's cast ability. However, smacking the top 4 cards of a 44-card deck (realistic enough deck size mid-game) that has 24 land cards out of 60 often gets you about 1.5 lands. ...Better not hit Scalding Tarn.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
The beatdown plan doesn't have to be too great with Bolt/Snap/Bolt though. As long as you can get them down to 12ish, the beatdown plan becomes real (especially if you're on Grixis and running Tasigur as well). I'd love an UR manland.
UR fastlands would also be amazing, though slightly less so.
Edit: Though I'd like to say that the predictions of enemy colored lands need to be looked at a bit critically with the reprint of the enemy painlands in Origins. IMO it points to an allied land cycle in BFZ (at least in the first set).
I don't know if the reprint in Origins means much, because all those did was counterbalance the allied fetchlands. Allied or enemy lands would destabilize it.
I feel pretty confident that we won't be seeing enemy-colored fastlands. Here's the thing: Something they've been doing, and I think they admitted to doing this at some point, is trying to have a "fast" and a "slow" dual land cycle in Standard. Something like the painlands, for example, provides more benefit for a fast deck because they care less about pinging themselves. Meanwhile, the scrylands benefit a slow deck more because coming into play tapped isn't as big of a disadvantage for them.
The current cycle (half fetchland, half painland) are cycles that benefit the faster decks. To counterbalance that, there should be a cycle of slower lands. The fastlands sure aren't that cycle. The manlands are, though!
UR Manland would be fun to go alongside Colonnade in UWR Control
I'd be quite happy with that.
Right this is why I say, open the flood gates. Because not all man lands are awesome (Lavaclaw Reaches sees zero play.) So the UR one could be better suited for a different deck than twin, or just plain bad. The way I see it, give control more reasons to exist. More control = less twin. Control would love to just beable to have manlands as win cons.
Don't want to talk about bans in this thread but I don't see Modern surviving long after BFZ.
Didn't you say that about Day's Undoing as well?
wow, after 7 cards,none of which I really see getting much play, if any? I know there is a lot of doomsaying on this forum, but I have to admit, I'm impressed, you have perfected doomsaying :/
You sure you're quoting the right person? I ain't doin' no doomsayin'.
Personally, I'm more interested in Zendikar fetches, Merfolk, and Elves. Cosi's Trickster was in one of the top 8 Copenhagen lists. Sejiri Merfolk is a nice option to have around and Coralhelm Commander was played a long time ago, before better cards came about. There are few Joraga elves that were borderline playable.
Edit: Goblins! I forgot Goblin Guide is from Zendikar. C'mon Ringleader and Matron! lol
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
I don't think a UR manland takes Twin over the top at all. Grixis Twin doesn't usually play Creeping Tar Pit, and I don't think it's immediately obvious that UR Twin is better suited for one. (I mean if you desperately wanted you could even play Faerie Conclave and nobody is doing that.) In particular, Twin is a deck that wants to keep mana up on the opponent's turn, and also doesn't play humongous amounts of land. If you printed Celestial Colonnade with the white symbols shifted to red, it would be pretty bad in Twin because it would eat up too much mana on your own turn to actually use. There is a reason that the decks that play Colonnade now are playing three more lands than Twin does.
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Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Didn't you say that about Day's Undoing as well?
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
I don't think that Sower is gonna be played in any Tron lists. I think that the chances of a mono Green Tron list with Primeval Titans starting to show up is a lot greater
This feels like it's going to be off topic in a hurry. As does the (ridiculous) prediction that Modern won't survive BFZ after we have seen 7 cards spoiled.
Enemy manlands would be awesome and could help out a lot of two-colored decks. But a UR manland could be a bit scary in Twin as a Plan C, so there's that to think about.
UR fastlands would also be amazing, though slightly less so.
Edit: Though I'd like to say that the predictions of enemy colored lands need to be looked at a bit critically with the reprint of the enemy painlands in Origins. IMO it points to an allied land cycle in BFZ (at least in the first set).
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
I'd be quite happy with that.
This seems highly illogical. You are saying that Tron is going to get broken because it can play a 6-drop that puts 1-2 non-Tron lands into play. That is much less impactful than Tron's other options. Also, Path to Exile sees almost no play nowadays, so Wurmcoil is almost never getting Pathed. Finally, the only deck that players lifegain lands for Sower to steal is Amulet, which the lifegain is mostly irrelevant against. There really are very few utility lands that Tron would actually want to steal against the decks that they are in. At least Day's Undoing looked like it could possibly break Modern.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Modern will be fine. If you are at the point where you have karn/ugin on board with a fatty you have probably stabilized and are about to take control of the game. Getting extra lands isn't that great maybe an eldrazi that lets you cast a creature or other spell for free will see play but it wont kill modern.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
wow, after 7 cards,none of which I really see getting much play, if any? I know there is a lot of doomsaying on this forum, but I have to admit, I'm impressed, you have perfected doomsaying :/
Relic of Progenitus: O. Sower cheats a bunch of fetchlands into play the majority of the time. Fetching for 1-2 basic Forests is fine. Cheating out Flooded Strand is no fun, though. Here's hoping that your opponent Thought Scoured or Liliana of the Veil +1'd himself or herself a bunch just so you can cheat in some lands that tap for mana.
Karn Liberated: Now you're talking. Karn actually exiles lands that tap for mana with his +4 and -3. O. Sower just might bring in the final push to kill that combo player with Emrakul.
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon: RG Tron doesn't play anything that colours up lands, so Ugin's only chance of exiling lands is exiling manlands (that defended and didn't die) and Dryad Arbor. Guess what--non-midrange combo doesn't play those lands.
Note that none of these consider how many lands you can steal with O. Sower's cast ability. However, smacking the top 4 cards of a 44-card deck (realistic enough deck size mid-game) that has 24 land cards out of 60 often gets you about 1.5 lands. ...Better not hit Scalding Tarn.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I feel pretty confident that we won't be seeing enemy-colored fastlands. Here's the thing: Something they've been doing, and I think they admitted to doing this at some point, is trying to have a "fast" and a "slow" dual land cycle in Standard. Something like the painlands, for example, provides more benefit for a fast deck because they care less about pinging themselves. Meanwhile, the scrylands benefit a slow deck more because coming into play tapped isn't as big of a disadvantage for them.
The current cycle (half fetchland, half painland) are cycles that benefit the faster decks. To counterbalance that, there should be a cycle of slower lands. The fastlands sure aren't that cycle. The manlands are, though!
Right this is why I say, open the flood gates. Because not all man lands are awesome (Lavaclaw Reaches sees zero play.) So the UR one could be better suited for a different deck than twin, or just plain bad. The way I see it, give control more reasons to exist. More control = less twin. Control would love to just beable to have manlands as win cons.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
You sure you're quoting the right person? I ain't doin' no doomsayin'.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
more disappointing.
Nah the Golgari are fine. You are right about the Izzet though. I don't trust them one bit
Sigh.
Edit: Goblins! I forgot Goblin Guide is from Zendikar. C'mon Ringleader and Matron! lol
@Lantern, that pic is awesome, may I use it as my avatar?
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)