idk, maybe check their respective threads in tier 2/developing competitive/deck creation?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
So I probably know more than anyone about naya stuffs, sans like... Craig Wescoe and kibler. So I'll list pors and cons of it at the bottom of my post. But really... Your best bet is to goldfish some games, then go into the threads and get advice for both, then play both on cockatrice, dedicate a week or 2 to playing both, and pick the style you like best. When I first had to pick my "deck" I was going to dedicate my self to, I did that for every deck I could even imagine myself playing and I had to in the end pick between Naya or Junk colors. And while I still love playing black paired with green and white... Red edges it out for me just for aggression.
Anyways Heres naya's pros
Mostly, you'll be playing zoo. Its not a brain dead deck... but most of your "think hard" moments are against blue decks. so 50% of the time, you wont have to rack your brain. That means you rarely get mentally exhausted.
Like above, most of your games on average are 25 minutes. Thats on average. sometimes its 50 minutes, sometimes its 10. but 25-35 is normal for 3 games.
Aloooooottt of free wins against blue decks. Twin, grixis, delver, ect.
If you like tweeking sideboards and main decks, Naya gives you a ton of options. Alot of the time, you take down events based on having a "stronger" deck, vs "Stronger play". Meaning, deciding to run 2 dromokas command will be alot more important in a zoo deck than in delver runing a spell pierce. Might be a good call, but with zoo's lack of filtering, our slots are more "impactful." So that means the focus of zoo will be on the building of it, rather than the performance. Youll have a strong performance if you build smartly.
Zoo, generally, is known as the most "redundant deck" You cant really counter or discard or remove something key to destroy it. Its basically 1/3rd lands, 1/3 utility slots, 1/3 buff dudes. You'll draw a replacement.
If opponents stumble, you will win. Pretty much no matter what. If someone misses a land drop, thats generally enough. Even 2 mulls will pretty much push naya decks to 99% kill you. The way zoo works from the above, its just mounting pressure until their ran over.
Always on "race" option. Meaning, even if you arent favor, you still have a chance at winning by rushing aggro, and clocking them.
Naya is and always will be, the cheapest colors. Blue and black is more expensive cards on a whole. This is not to say they are better or worse. These players will just pay more than the others will. Naya decks, with the exception of the odd goyf, naya is cheaper. Naya zoo is one of the only decks that felt a drop with modern masters reprintings and 3 months later, still has maintained a lower price. Reprints really help the deck's price entry more than others.
Naya, even when midrange, is the most aggressive "pure" creature deck around. Affinity is kinda more tribal, and rdw is really just a burn deck.
Theres more than this, but They arent "huge enough" to really matter.
Youre cons are:
If you like long really interactive games, naya is very much anti that. You wont get a ton of long games.
Free wins against blue... Not so much against black green decks.
Alot less "chances" to win against combo decks. You can sideboard ways to win, but its still a high shot of getting steam rolled.
your "outs" are limited to what you draw. Black gives you alot of Power for a price effects that let you dodge that, so the pro of zoo, redundancy, is also a con here. Collected company is awesome, but sans green sun zenth, thats our best out. No recurring with eternal witness.
I didnt list a ton of cons... but I wanna stress these are big ones. The combo one realllllyyy hurts the deck. You are a fair deck. You are the fairest deck in existance. You dont do unfair things. Ever. Not even thoughseize. maybe a blood moon, but even then, your basically killing your lands too, lol. Its actually something I like, I hate playing unfair decks, doing unfun things, and love killing guys who do when I can. You have very clear good matchups, most blue decks being around 80% your favor (and alot of people will contest my point, but its true, even pros will say zoo's good matchups are blue decks.) but youre also 80% losing against like... hard to interactive with combo decks. You generally wont win against boggles, ad neasum, living end, and stuff like that.
Overall, if you like turning dudes sideways, and backing them with great burn and proactive white green hate, Naya is awesome for you. If you want to have more of a bag of tricks you can turn on, look for junk.
Is it really fair to compare the decks? Their main thing in common is running Collected Company, but they're rather different decks. Naya Company is basically just Naya Zoo with Collected Company added whereas Abzan Company is basically the old Abzan Pod decks but with Collected Company instead of Birthing Pod. It's essentially comparing Zoo decks with Birthing Pod decks, and they're very different.
One might as well try to figure out the pros and cons of GR Tron and Affinity.
I personally feel that Naya is the best home for CoCo and I think we are starting to see that now in terms of results. I think the only reason Abzan Company really exists is because people wanted to find a way to play all their old Pod cards after it was banned. Pod was a lot better for a deck with combos and silver bullets because it allowed you to tutor up exactly what you need in every situation. CoCo on the other hand, just provides insane value, but isn't so good at getting you exactly what you need. Because Naya plays much more powerful creatures and more 3-drops (which are really what you want to be hitting off CoCo) I think it is a better shell for the card. Getting a pair of Goyfs/Smiters/Knights or any combination of those from CoCo is very difficult for any fair deck to beat.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Modern decks BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam UB Reanimator
Is it really fair to compare the decks? Their main thing in common is running Collected Company, but they're rather different decks. Naya Company is basically just Naya Zoo with Collected Company added whereas Abzan Company is basically the old Abzan Pod decks but with Collected Company instead of Birthing Pod. It's essentially comparing Zoo decks with Birthing Pod decks, and they're very different.
While this is true, I think he's just comparing deck choices. I don't think he's saying that they are the same. Your post will give him insight about which one to play - a Zoo deck or basically a neutered Pod deck.
I've played Junk Company for 3 weeks, but stopped when I heard about Grishoalbrand. I actually have played against Naya Company a lot with Grishoalbrand, Bogles, and once with Junk Company. I've been 4-0 with Gris, 3-0 with Bogles, and 1-0 with Junk. Most of these have been at PPTQs or a GPT since nobody at my store plays Naya Company. These are the questions I have for all of you.
1. Which deck has a better chance to hit? With Naya playing 4 Lightning Bolt, 4 Path to Exile, and 3 CoCo, it would seem that the chances are slimmer when compared with 4 Chord of Calling and 4 CoCo for Junk. But perhaps Junk runs more lands?
2. Which deck has a better defense? Naya has spells that defend like Path and Lightning Bolt. Junk just has Chord and creatures, some of which can't answer most things that come up.
3. How many decks does Infinite Life beat? When I played Junk Company, I did so because my main deck list just destroyed Twin and Burn and it seemed to be all I saw. I ended up 6-0 vs. Burn and 6-0 vs. Twin in those 3 weeks. Against other decks, I believe I was close to 50%. Affinity and Infect could care less about Infinite Life (Infect moreso), but many decks just fold to it. Some of those decks also don't have much to stop it (ie. Path to Exile or other removal).
*Something I should bring up is that even if Junk has a better chance to hit, the creatures that Naya hits are more offensive minded. The creatures that Junk hits are more defense minded or trying to set up the combo.
Since I didn't answer the question, here's my 2 cents, obviously skewed by the fact that I played Junk and have also done well vs. Naya, is Junk Company. It's a very solid deck. I believe it's the superior deck; at least 1 Tier above Naya. Even a neutered Pod deck is pretty damn good.
**Sorry, I forgot something important. Junk plays 8 mana dorks, so the chances of an early CoCo are higher when compared with Naya's 4 Noble Hierarch. Junk has Gavony Township. Naya has Kessig Wolf Run.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
One thing I would like to add about Junk Company that a lot of people tend to forget about is how powerful infinite scry is. You can basically use it to pick your next draw. So while some decks don't care about the infinite life, I can still scry a Murderous Redcap to the top of my library on their endstep and then infinite damage combo out on my main. So yes, they get an extra turn to try and win the game but if they can't cut off your combo you win next turn anyway. I've won several games by telling my opponent that on their endstep Im going to scry until redcap comes up. So there is that to consider.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My posts end threads
Decks
Modern BGR Jund RGB BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB BWGAbzan CompanyGWB
Yep - its true infinite life doesnt win you the game but next turn you scry to your redcap and deal infinite damage. I was low on the deck for risking getting stuck durdling around with infinite life but still needing to win, then saw the next-turn-redcap and went "nevermind".
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
These are two EXTREMELY different decks and they should not be debated as the strats are different compare Abzan to other combo decks and compare Naya to other non company zoo decks also, baby company is a midrange deck so that also shouldn't be put in here
These are two EXTREMELY different decks and they should not be debated as the strats are different compare Abzan to other combo decks and compare Naya to other non company zoo decks also, baby company is a midrange deck so that also shouldn't be put in here
Remember not to necro old topics; this one has had zero activity since September 2015. Necroing is against the forum rules.
Thread locked.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Over-Extended/Modern Since 2010
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Anyways Heres naya's pros
Youre cons are:
I didnt list a ton of cons... but I wanna stress these are big ones. The combo one realllllyyy hurts the deck. You are a fair deck. You are the fairest deck in existance. You dont do unfair things. Ever. Not even thoughseize. maybe a blood moon, but even then, your basically killing your lands too, lol. Its actually something I like, I hate playing unfair decks, doing unfun things, and love killing guys who do when I can. You have very clear good matchups, most blue decks being around 80% your favor (and alot of people will contest my point, but its true, even pros will say zoo's good matchups are blue decks.) but youre also 80% losing against like... hard to interactive with combo decks. You generally wont win against boggles, ad neasum, living end, and stuff like that.
Overall, if you like turning dudes sideways, and backing them with great burn and proactive white green hate, Naya is awesome for you. If you want to have more of a bag of tricks you can turn on, look for junk.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
One might as well try to figure out the pros and cons of GR Tron and Affinity.
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
While this is true, I think he's just comparing deck choices. I don't think he's saying that they are the same. Your post will give him insight about which one to play - a Zoo deck or basically a neutered Pod deck.
I've played Junk Company for 3 weeks, but stopped when I heard about Grishoalbrand. I actually have played against Naya Company a lot with Grishoalbrand, Bogles, and once with Junk Company. I've been 4-0 with Gris, 3-0 with Bogles, and 1-0 with Junk. Most of these have been at PPTQs or a GPT since nobody at my store plays Naya Company. These are the questions I have for all of you.
1. Which deck has a better chance to hit? With Naya playing 4 Lightning Bolt, 4 Path to Exile, and 3 CoCo, it would seem that the chances are slimmer when compared with 4 Chord of Calling and 4 CoCo for Junk. But perhaps Junk runs more lands?
2. Which deck has a better defense? Naya has spells that defend like Path and Lightning Bolt. Junk just has Chord and creatures, some of which can't answer most things that come up.
3. How many decks does Infinite Life beat? When I played Junk Company, I did so because my main deck list just destroyed Twin and Burn and it seemed to be all I saw. I ended up 6-0 vs. Burn and 6-0 vs. Twin in those 3 weeks. Against other decks, I believe I was close to 50%. Affinity and Infect could care less about Infinite Life (Infect moreso), but many decks just fold to it. Some of those decks also don't have much to stop it (ie. Path to Exile or other removal).
*Something I should bring up is that even if Junk has a better chance to hit, the creatures that Naya hits are more offensive minded. The creatures that Junk hits are more defense minded or trying to set up the combo.
Since I didn't answer the question, here's my 2 cents, obviously skewed by the fact that I played Junk and have also done well vs. Naya, is Junk Company. It's a very solid deck. I believe it's the superior deck; at least 1 Tier above Naya. Even a neutered Pod deck is pretty damn good.
**Sorry, I forgot something important. Junk plays 8 mana dorks, so the chances of an early CoCo are higher when compared with Naya's 4 Noble Hierarch. Junk has Gavony Township. Naya has Kessig Wolf Run.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Decks
Modern
BGR Jund RGB
BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB
BWGAbzan Company GWB
Mtgo Modern
G Company Elves G
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Decks
Modern
BGR Jund RGB
BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB
BWGAbzan Company GWB
Mtgo Modern
G Company Elves G
Remember not to necro old topics; this one has had zero activity since September 2015. Necroing is against the forum rules.
Thread locked.