I'm seeing surprising amounts of chatter about the power of the Eldrazi decks in pro circles now that the set has had some time to be tested. I thought there'd be more anticipation for Monday vs. talking about Eldrazi Temple.
You could of course build a deck around Painter's Servant using Old School tech Like CoP:* and creatures with Protection. How such a deck might do vs the Rest of Tier 1/2 decks would remain to be seen.
Does anyone fear that Eldrazi will make Modern less diverse? I think Merfolk, Infect, Burn, Tron, Twin and Affinity will be very good picks in GP Bologna. I do not really see anything else to be really worth it, apart from the combo decks. Those decks come in my mind as beating Eldrazi. Space for midrange and alternative control will be limited due to Eldrazi pushing them away.
My guess is it's going to be a tidal surge. Eldrazi will be really popular, and in response, the tide will shift to an anti eldrazi sideboard, and eldrazi will drop in popularity. Then the tide will run out, and eldrazi will take a place as part of the meta.
Painter's Servant may see a rise in value in the short term, despite the fact that it is boltable, throatable, murderable, radflames-able, etc.
Does anyone fear that Eldrazi will make Modern less diverse? I think Merfolk, Infect, Burn, Tron, Twin and Affinity will be very good picks in GP Bologna. I do not really see anything else to be really worth it, apart from the combo decks. Those decks come in my mind as beating Eldrazi. Space for midrange and alternative control will be limited due to Eldrazi pushing them away.
But it seems EVERYTHING limits midrange/control strategies - that's more a weakness of those strategies and shouldn't be the fault of the newer decks. Eldrazi (and tron) open up TONS of combo, aggro, and tempo decks as viable archetypes - so that makes some BGx decks not 50/50 anymore? I don't care. Such is life.
Does anyone fear that Eldrazi will make Modern less diverse? I think Merfolk, Infect, Burn, Tron, Twin and Affinity will be very good picks in GP Bologna. I do not really see anything else to be really worth it, apart from the combo decks. Those decks come in my mind as beating Eldrazi. Space for midrange and alternative control will be limited due to Eldrazi pushing them away.
Not at all. Its been clear for a LONG time that the meta didnt really have a cycle... Just bashing and hoping. Now it does. Early game decks beat late game eldrazi/tron decks. Late game decks beat mid game. Mid game beats early.
If anything, its helping. Knocking jund/k and twin down a peg is perfectly fine since they were soaking up most % anyways.
I've been playing against this deck a ton lately (with the new cards coming out, too), and I've found spreading seas, and especially trickbind to be decent against them. I'm not saying they're hosers, but they've been decent sideboard options to help shore up the match. Also, Ashiok has been decent. Ashiok can break up the integrity of the deck and let's you get some of your own eldrazi.
The deck is going to become very strong, and many decks are going to be getting crushed. They will have a lot more hand disruption. Even playing twin I was having a hard time with all the hand disruption and spot removal that the OGW builds have.
Now that twin is banned, I am looking at decks that use path to exile and can play trickbind and spreading seas in the sideboard.
I can't stress enough that this deck is the REAL DEAL.
Was ashiok really pivotal in those game or just annoying for your OP? Also do you think Elesh Norn would be the right target (via gifts ungiven)or beatdown with Grave Titan?
With the latest bans, I heavily suspect that hyper aggro decks such as Affinity, Infect, Bogles, and Burn will make out like a bandit because they have favourable times against both RG Tron and Eldrazi. This will likely force Eldrazi Black (covers more bases than Eldrazi Processors) to be BW, as BW gets both the Affinity-punishing Lingering Souls/Stony Silence and more decent life gain options. It's possible that Eldrazi Black splashes red instead for better spot removal/board wipes or green instead for better spot removal, consistency cantrips such as Ancient Stirrings, and life gain, though.
I suspect Eldrazi Processors is the best against Affinity/Burn/Bogles/Infect...and also the fastest combo decks left, Grishoalbrand and UR Storm. (Ad Nauseam tends to be slow enough to lose to RG Tron close to half the time pre-board in testing, while the rest aren't that slow.) Eldrazi Processors maindecks graveyard hate (good against the fast combo decks), more cheap creature-killers (well, Wasteland Strangler--Bearer of Silence is rather a whiff against Affinity and needs precisely Eye of Ugin + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + C-making land to kill stuff on Turn 3), and often more blockers (fine against Bogles).
RG Tron has a better time against Affinity and Zoo (and possibly Burn) than non-BW Eldrazi Black does, though.
I swear, every time i play online on cockatrice now, everyone is playing the freakin eldrazi deck, and even with access to blood moons, spreading seas, and a clock, I cannot beat a turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer. The deck is becoming a real pain for certain. Doubt anything can beat a T2 seer in all honesty
Was ashiok really pivotal in those game or just annoying for your OP? Also do you think Elesh Norn would be the right target (via gifts ungiven)or beatdown with Grave Titan?
Ashiok was not a gamebreaker, but coupled with the other disruption I had it ended up being enough. Mind you, this is in an esper mentor deck that is going wide with pressure and runs hand disruption and path to exile, along with sideboard trickbind and spreading seas. I was also using stain the mind to remove oblivion sowers. There is no way for them to pressure the Ashiok and it/he/she puts an eldrazi into play almost every game. It's just another piece of disruption on another axis.
The hard part about fighting this deck is that starting from turn two onwards, they are playing haymakers that also disrupt you. Reactive strategies suck against the deck. Land destruction isn't an answer, it just delays. You have to be proactively attacking their hand and land and life total at the same time. And you have to be using a strategy that doesn't get completely destroyed by a cast ulamog, because eventually they WILL cast it.
how about hate + burn + magus of the moon and blood moon?
Not necessarily, as long as you get Teeg out and protect him, you effectively shut down all their big creatures. Then it limits them to Kozilek's return and Wasteland Strangler.
how about hate + burn + magus of the moon and blood moon?
Not necessarily, as long as you get Teeg out and protect him, you effectively shut down all their big creatures. Then it limits them to Kozilek's return and Wasteland Strangler.
Teeg does nothing to this deck, he only affects non-creature spells so all of the big Eldrazi are still castable. The deck typically play low mana SPELL spells as well.
I need to test Merfolk against them. In theory, the lists that aren't running maindeck Damnation should be fish food.
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how about hate + burn + magus of the moon and blood moon?
Not necessarily, as long as you get Teeg out and protect him, you effectively shut down all their big creatures. Then it limits them to Kozilek's return and Wasteland Strangler.
Teeg does nothing to this deck, he only affects non-creature spells so all of the big Eldrazi are still castable. The deck typically play low mana SPELL spells as well.
Reread it, and you are right. What the heck was I thinking?
Anyone try Goblins? It should be fast enough, and the Grenades should blow up some of the weaker eldralzi's. Or is Lackey still needed?
how about hate + burn + magus of the moon and blood moon?
Not necessarily, as long as you get Teeg out and protect him, you effectively shut down all their big creatures. Then it limits them to Kozilek's return and Wasteland Strangler.
Teeg does nothing to this deck, he only affects non-creature spells so all of the big Eldrazi are still castable. The deck typically play low mana SPELL spells as well.
Reread it, and you are right. What the heck was I thinking?
Anyone try Goblins? It should be fast enough, and the Grenades should blow up some of the weaker eldralzi's. Or is Lackey still needed?
Eldrazi is almost a bye for goblins. I play both decks and I don't think there's really a way for Eldrazi to win.
how about hate + burn + magus of the moon and blood moon?
Not necessarily, as long as you get Teeg out and protect him, you effectively shut down all their big creatures. Then it limits them to Kozilek's return and Wasteland Strangler.
Teeg does nothing to this deck, he only affects non-creature spells so all of the big Eldrazi are still castable. The deck typically play low mana SPELL spells as well.
Reread it, and you are right. What the heck was I thinking?
Anyone try Goblins? It should be fast enough, and the Grenades should blow up some of the weaker eldralzi's. Or is Lackey still needed?
Eldrazi is almost a bye for goblins. I play both decks and I don't think there's really a way for Eldrazi to win.
With a heavier creature hate package in the sideboard featuring 4+ Drown in SOrrow / Flaying Tendrils , I think Eldrazi can be metagamed to beat Goblins and other swarm-type decks.
Not necessarily, as long as you get Teeg out and protect him, you effectively shut down all their big creatures. Then it limits them to Kozilek's return and Wasteland Strangler.
Teeg does nothing to this deck, he only affects non-creature spells so all of the big Eldrazi are still castable. The deck typically play low mana SPELL spells as well.
Reread it, and you are right. What the heck was I thinking?
Anyone try Goblins? It should be fast enough, and the Grenades should blow up some of the weaker eldralzi's. Or is Lackey still needed?
Eldrazi is almost a bye for goblins. I play both decks and I don't think there's really a way for Eldrazi to win.
With a heavier creature hate package in the sideboard featuring 4+ Drown in SOrrow / Flaying Tendrils , I think Eldrazi can be metagamed to beat Goblins and other swarm-type decks.
Eh - good goblins players do not care about wipes. The misunderstanding about goblins is that people think it's looking to get a huge board presence and alpha strike. It CAN do that, but a good player who is playing around sweepers will be pretty suicidal with his team using goblin grenade. Goblins CAN kill on turn 3, and by turn 4 they're pretty close to killing you with pretty thorough regularity barring mana screws. Even Ulamog can't really help stabilize through the burn at that point.
With the latest bans, I heavily suspect that hyper aggro decks such as Affinity, Infect, Bogles, and Burn will make out like a bandit because they have favourable times against both RG Tron and Eldrazi. This will likely force Eldrazi Black (covers more bases than Eldrazi Processors) to be BW, as BW gets both the Affinity-punishing Lingering Souls/Stony Silence and more decent life gain options. It's possible that Eldrazi Black splashes red instead for better spot removal/board wipes or green instead for better spot removal, consistency cantrips such as Ancient Stirrings, and life gain, though.
I suspect Eldrazi Processors is the best against Affinity/Burn/Bogles/Infect...and also the fastest combo decks left, Grishoalbrand and UR Storm. (Ad Nauseam tends to be slow enough to lose to RG Tron close to half the time pre-board in testing, while the rest aren't that slow.) Eldrazi Processors maindecks graveyard hate (good against the fast combo decks), more cheap creature-killers (well, Wasteland Strangler--Bearer of Silence is rather a whiff against Affinity and needs precisely Eye of Ugin + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + C-making land to kill stuff on Turn 3), and often more blockers (fine against Bogles).
RG Tron has a better time against Affinity and Zoo (and possibly Burn) than non-BW Eldrazi Black does, though.
I dunno about BW being the best for aggro... from my testing it is pretty "meh" against Affinity and Fish but better vs Burn. The main issue BW will have is the mana base as it is essentially a 3-color deck (we have to start considering colorless a "color" for these decks) so it can be hard to cast your spells sometimes. BR has it a little easier against aggro but over all the current perception is that B<> is still probably the most consistent performer with the current tools. It will be interesting to see which comes out on top though.
Anyone tried Painter's Servant? Hoses several of their cards that key off of "colorless". Can still be hit by Wasteland Strangler but it can slow them down if you can protect it.
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DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
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5678Painter's Servant may see a rise in value in the short term, despite the fact that it is boltable, throatable, murderable, radflames-able, etc.
But it seems EVERYTHING limits midrange/control strategies - that's more a weakness of those strategies and shouldn't be the fault of the newer decks. Eldrazi (and tron) open up TONS of combo, aggro, and tempo decks as viable archetypes - so that makes some BGx decks not 50/50 anymore? I don't care. Such is life.
Not at all. Its been clear for a LONG time that the meta didnt really have a cycle... Just bashing and hoping. Now it does. Early game decks beat late game eldrazi/tron decks. Late game decks beat mid game. Mid game beats early.
If anything, its helping. Knocking jund/k and twin down a peg is perfectly fine since they were soaking up most % anyways.
The deck is going to become very strong, and many decks are going to be getting crushed. They will have a lot more hand disruption. Even playing twin I was having a hard time with all the hand disruption and spot removal that the OGW builds have.
Now that twin is banned, I am looking at decks that use path to exile and can play trickbind and spreading seas in the sideboard.
I can't stress enough that this deck is the REAL DEAL.
4c Gifts Deck Stats: https://bit.ly/2XMPrlY
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/120495
I suspect Eldrazi Processors is the best against Affinity/Burn/Bogles/Infect...and also the fastest combo decks left, Grishoalbrand and UR Storm. (Ad Nauseam tends to be slow enough to lose to RG Tron close to half the time pre-board in testing, while the rest aren't that slow.) Eldrazi Processors maindecks graveyard hate (good against the fast combo decks), more cheap creature-killers (well, Wasteland Strangler--Bearer of Silence is rather a whiff against Affinity and needs precisely Eye of Ugin + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + C-making land to kill stuff on Turn 3), and often more blockers (fine against Bogles).
RG Tron has a better time against Affinity and Zoo (and possibly Burn) than non-BW Eldrazi Black does, though.
On my tombstone, please write "Now his body fuels the Treasure Cruise"
Or you could Kommand him back...
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Modern:
BURGrixis DelverRUB
URUR DelverRU
URBlue MoonRU
RIPURUR TwinRURIP
Legacy:
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RUBGrixis PyromancerRUB
Commander:
URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
URBJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeRUB
On my tombstone, please write "Now his body fuels the Treasure Cruise"
Or you could Kommand him back...
Check out my Youtube Page for online Magic Content!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcq-a5rTSNclFCS2o4_lVFw
Modern:
BURGrixis DelverRUB
URUR DelverRU
URBlue MoonRU
RIPURUR TwinRURIP
Legacy:
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RUBGrixis PyromancerRUB
Commander:
URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
URBJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeRUB
Ashiok was not a gamebreaker, but coupled with the other disruption I had it ended up being enough. Mind you, this is in an esper mentor deck that is going wide with pressure and runs hand disruption and path to exile, along with sideboard trickbind and spreading seas. I was also using stain the mind to remove oblivion sowers. There is no way for them to pressure the Ashiok and it/he/she puts an eldrazi into play almost every game. It's just another piece of disruption on another axis.
The hard part about fighting this deck is that starting from turn two onwards, they are playing haymakers that also disrupt you. Reactive strategies suck against the deck. Land destruction isn't an answer, it just delays. You have to be proactively attacking their hand and land and life total at the same time. And you have to be using a strategy that doesn't get completely destroyed by a cast ulamog, because eventually they WILL cast it.
how about hate + burn + magus of the moon and blood moon?
Not necessarily, as long as you get Teeg out and protect him, you effectively shut down all their big creatures. Then it limits them to Kozilek's return and Wasteland Strangler.
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
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Teeg does nothing to this deck, he only affects non-creature spells so all of the big Eldrazi are still castable. The deck typically play low mana SPELL spells as well.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Reread it, and you are right. What the heck was I thinking?
Anyone try Goblins? It should be fast enough, and the Grenades should blow up some of the weaker eldralzi's. Or is Lackey still needed?
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
Eldrazi is almost a bye for goblins. I play both decks and I don't think there's really a way for Eldrazi to win.
With a heavier creature hate package in the sideboard featuring 4+ Drown in SOrrow / Flaying Tendrils , I think Eldrazi can be metagamed to beat Goblins and other swarm-type decks.
Eh - good goblins players do not care about wipes. The misunderstanding about goblins is that people think it's looking to get a huge board presence and alpha strike. It CAN do that, but a good player who is playing around sweepers will be pretty suicidal with his team using goblin grenade. Goblins CAN kill on turn 3, and by turn 4 they're pretty close to killing you with pretty thorough regularity barring mana screws. Even Ulamog can't really help stabilize through the burn at that point.