It'd be a terrible, uninteractive format. Even more so than it is now. Because there's no Force of Will or Wasteland, every single Modern game would be a combo deck trying to goldfish before the other combo deck can goldfish.
Not really - formats like these actually promote interactivity since they allow control decks to thrive. Old-extended had some very strong interactive decks like Faeries (often mono-blue) and Tezzerator variants being big as tools that beat up on the combo-heavy meta. Also, there would be a lot more tools to be able to handle combo decks, whether it's a GSZ toolbox, or legal Mental Misstep, or more decks simply maindecking spell pierce with a strong tempo game. Keep in mind, the aggro decks aren't there necessarily to beat combo, but instead to beat the control decks that in turn beat combo.
Combo is obviously going to be quite relevant, but I think you would have a LOT of archetypes represented. I honestly think you could have a very diverse meta - all these decks could easily be viable. The supposedly degenerate decks all have viable hate in the format, you don't NEED to have force of will here in my honest opinion. I found in a good amount of testing that people really underestimate the power of hex-depths. Most of the delver-style decks simply aren't equipped to deal with Marit Lage and end up losing to it sooner or later. Similarly, this combo often out-races many of the other combos in the format like Infect, and at times, even storm (especially when backed with a bit of disruption).
Most combo decks in the format get stomped by the tempo decks, regardless of the degenerate cards they do or don't have available to them. Similarly, the tempo decks get stomped by decks like 12post or Jund (especially with punishing fire). Aggro kind of falls in the middle depending on what they're playing vs.
You would likely get lots of combo variants - storm, twin, eggs, dark depths, hypergenesis, Scapeshift, Jeskai Ascendancy, infect.
You would get aggro-combo variants - Affinity, Elves, Dredge, Gx toolbox combos (melira, spike feeder, Knight of the Reliquary combos with dark depths)
You would get pure-aggro decks - namely zoo variants & burn variants
You would get tempo / control variants - Faeries, Delver cruise, stoneblade, merfolk, hatebears, death and taxes
You would probably get straight midrange decks - Jund, Junk, etc
You would probably get some hard control decks - Tezzerator, Next Level Blue, Stoneblade (more controlling versions), Miracles, Counter-Top
You would get ramp variants, most likely all 12post decks, as well as other bigger mana decks like all-in-red.
Except that formats like Vintage and Legacy actually have tools for control to interact early in the game. Modern doesn't have any of this. There is no reliable way for control to deal with combo spells before Turn 2. You basically need Force of Will in the format to prevent fast combo from taking over that format. Nor is there any effective way to deal with broken lands. Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge are vastly inferior compared to Wasteland and Strip Mine.
And what kind of skewed testing have you done exactly? Aggro being able to survive in a Turn-2 kill format? It simply won't happen. In such a format aggro would not even be represented as there would be no point in competing on fair level with such quick combo kills.
I don't see at all how you believe that Zoo, Burn, Junk, Junk, Tezzerator, Stoneblade, and 12post would even survive in this format.
First off, this isn't a turn 2 format. Very few decks here win consistently on turn 2, even with the ban list being removed, it would likely be more of a turn 3 format for the quickest combo decks. Most of the all-in combos can have a very rare nut-draw turn 2 win, but they're still mostly turn 3-4 decks.
Zoo did very well in old extended - a format with no-ban dredge, no-ban dark depths thopter, no-ban hypergenesis, no-ban elf combo (including symbiote), etc. Believe it or not, early pressure + a few well-placed maindeck hatebears makes it very difficult for combo decks to win. Thalia Zoo or Gaddock Teeg zoo + additional sideboard hate beats most combo decks, or you could alternatively go with a counter-cat style deck with zeniths, deathrite shamans, geists, and meddling mages in the board. Also, Twin is one of the best anti-combo decks around (even though it's a combo deck itself) and would be a very difficult matchup for decks like Storm, Elves, Infect, Etc.
There is no reliable way for control to deal with combo spells before Turn 2
That's not true. Thoughtseize, Spell Snare, Mental Misstep, Remand, Mana Leak, spell pierce, dispel, Inquisition of Kozilek, Abrupt Decay, all are potent tools against combo, not to mention more specialized cards like Chalice of the Void, or Counter-top combo. Also, what combo decks are you talking about? Half the combo decks in the format are vulnerable to a chalice of the void or Ethersworn Canonist. The other half die to graveyard hate or artifact hate (stony silence wrecks MANY decks here). If you really want, you can play mindbreak trap as well. The aggro decks and midrange decks will utilize Green Sun's Zenith turn 2 to find hatebears (gaddock teeg will likely be popular), and scooze / deathrite shaman will be potent against graveyard decks. If a black deck can survive until turn 4, Night of Souls betrayal wrecks half the format (an old extended tool that's great vs faeries, thopter combo, dark depths, delver variants, elves, infect, etc).
Storm and many other combos still have a very difficult time winning through Eidolon of the Great Revel.
The fact is, UR delver-cruise beats up on the majority of the combo decks in this format. Spell pierces + remands with a potent clock and card advantage just wrecks decks like Storm, Hypergenesis, and others. Tezzerator does as well. You don't need force of will.
Wouldn't something like Hypergenesis be the best deck in this? I like the idea but I don't see how it's going to work without FoW
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Wouldn't something like Hypergenesis be the best deck in this? I like the idea but I don't see how it's going to work without FoW
Hardly. Test against a gauntlet if you want. Hypergenesis is actually pretty inconsistent, and has no good way of fighting through disruption. A single spell pierce can often be the downfall of it, not to mention the fact that it loses to most of the common sideboard hate cards in the format.
It's funny, because a deck like All-in-red can really beat up hard on the unfair decks in the format, but it's absolutely awful against more fair strategies like GW Hatebears or Merfolk.
In most of the actual NBLM tournaments that have been run and have published their top 8's, the field was pretty evenly split between combo decks and fair decks, but in none of them that I've recorded did any of the following decks win: Affinity, Storm, Hypergenesis. In fact, most of them were won by entirely fair midrange decks, powered either by blue countermagic (spell pierce/mental misstep/mana leak) or hatebears of various types.
In my own testing, the format is similar to legacy in that decks looking to actually build with consistency in mind get to execute their gameplan EVERY game, without fail. Unlike legacy, there's very little to no potential for getting train-wrecked on the first or second turn--it's still largely a turn 3 format unless you're literally goldfishing, and the police cards that exist (hatebears, particularly thalia and teeg, lightning bolt/path, mental misstep/mana leak/spell pierce) are actually able to do their jobs because the overall format is mana-efficient enough that soft permission is once again viable.
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Geek fortress runs nobl modern at least monthly on twitch, so far tier 1: hypergenesis, storm, affinity, and stoneblade. Stoneblade is probably the best deck if you have a lot of legacy experience, otherwise I'd go with hypergenesis.
In most of the actual NBLM tournaments that have been run and have published their top 8's, the field was pretty evenly split between combo decks and fair decks, but in none of them that I've recorded did any of the following decks win: Affinity, Storm, Hypergenesis. In fact, most of them were won by entirely fair midrange decks, powered either by blue countermagic (spell pierce/mental misstep/mana leak) or hatebears of various types.
In my own testing, the format is similar to legacy in that decks looking to actually build with consistency in mind get to execute their gameplan EVERY game, without fail. Unlike legacy, there's very little to no potential for getting train-wrecked on the first or second turn--it's still largely a turn 3 format unless you're literally goldfishing, and the police cards that exist (hatebears, particularly thalia and teeg, lightning bolt/path, mental misstep/mana leak/spell pierce) are actually able to do their jobs because the overall format is mana-efficient enough that soft permission is once again viable.
Yeah in our MNBL Hatebears, DnT and Control were all the top dogs. They can be built to shut combo down fairly quick.
One interesting aspect of this format is that the Artifact Lands being legal really enables a lot of interesting stuff. Naturally, it powers up artifact decks like Affinity, but it also enables less traditional decks to play cards like Dispatch as a better Swords to Plowshares, or to utilize Mox Opal in a control deck.
Additionally, white is actually a relevant color in this format as it has a lot of cards that truly shut down many of the potent combo decks in the format. Rest in Peace, Ethersworn Canonist, and Stony Silence in particular all are extremely powerful tools against the decks in the format that are more on the unfair side of things. Path to Exile is an important tool as well against dark depths decks.
One final thing is that Dark Depths combo is much better than it previously was, since you can combo with either Vampire Hexmage, or Thespian's Stage. The latter ability to combo off 2 lands allows depths decks to get a marit lage out regardless of whether an opponent has permission or discard. This is especially important against decks like UR Delver.
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One interesting aspect of this format is that the Artifact Lands being legal really enables a lot of interesting stuff. Naturally, it powers up artifact decks like Affinity, but it also enables less traditional decks to play cards like Dispatch as a better Swords to Plowshares, or to utilize Mox Opal in a control deck.
Additionally, white is actually a relevant color in this format as it has a lot of cards that truly shut down many of the potent combo decks in the format. Rest in Peace, Ethersworn Canonist, and Stony Silence in particular all are extremely powerful tools against the decks in the format that are more on the unfair side of things. Path to Exile is an important tool as well against dark depths decks.
One final thing is that Dark Depths combo is much better than it previously was, since you can combo with either Vampire Hexmage, or Thespian's Stage. The latter ability to combo off 2 lands allows depths decks to get a marit lage out regardless of whether an opponent has permission or discard. This is especially important against decks like UR Delver.
Dispatch being better makes dark depths worse though. If there are too many exile or edict effects running around it looses a lot of power. Even with life from the loam and crucible. It takes two turns to bring back the the thespian stage combo. Hex-mage is much quicker but gets stuck in the graveyard. We don't have all the good lands like legacy either or exploration to recover quickly or the crucible/life wasteland lock. Honestly, I would play dark depths in a grindy deck with lots of discard if there is a lot exile effects running around. But then again I have been of the opinion dark depths is fine currently in modern. Liliana, Path and cards like Echoing truth are pretty solid. It is just one big creature and it does not have haste.
Our LGS held 2 events like this, i brought Miracles. It turned out that it's not the same without Brainstorm, it happens too often that you draw in the first 7 a Terminus or Entreat and ended up waiting for a Jace to get stuff going. Even playing without Counterspell and Fow was a nightmare, every deck was going crazy with me holding a mana leak... Jace is a powerful planeswalker, but in a format full of creature is less likely to stay alive and make the difference (won me a couple of games though).
The 2 events were won by Jund, followed by Elves and Hypergenesis (1st Event); Jund, Storm and Jund (2nd one). So if you're opened to every kind of deck i would go with a full powered Jund.
I'm a huge fan of Control style decks and was hoping that MNBL would be an amazing format for it. But instead it left me disappointed. The lack of good counter spell is too critical, and the amount of Combo is crazy high, so i would not try to run fair deck in this particular environment (even Jund cheat stuff into play with BBE).
Control is a difficult deck to crack in an unknown meta. I sort of disagree that control isn't viable in NB modern, I actually think it's one of the stronger choices, but you need to be able to know what to anticipate in advance if we're being honest. Proactive decks don't have to worry about reacting as much to other decks - they simply need to do their thing and hope for the most part they can power through or race the opponent. Control doesnt really have that luxury.
With that said, in a combo-heavy format, decks that play a good mix of permission, discard, and sideboard hate (especially relevant sideboard hate) will be powerful. I tend to think control that can win off a combo finish like Scapeshift or even counterbalance is probably going to be superior in this format, but tempo also is quite powerful if you want to go with more of a control-ish mindset.
Here are some control lists I've had a lot of luck in testing against a pretty wide field (namely on cockatrice admittedly, but against a lot of known and powerful decks in a format like this). Note that 3 of the 4 decks play maindeck relic of Progenitus. That's a good start if you want to have a leg up on combo decks as well as quite a few "fair" decks.
UW Thopter Control
Strategy Win off fast mana, efficient removal and artifact hate. Can combo thopters against more fair decks combined with efficient disruption against unfair decks. Pretty simple and straightforward strategy, but has effective tools against every deck in the format except *maybe* 12 post decks, although this can often just race them when backed with permission.
Main weaknesses is stony silence or other artifact hate.
Strategy: Somewhat similar to the UW deck, this deck utilizes artifact hate to increase the tempo. Unlike UW thopters however, this is more of a prison deck that wants to drop early planeswalkers off artifact acceleration, then sit behind an ensnaring bridge as you win off the walkers or off thopter combos.
Strategy: Slow the game down with efficient removal, disruption, and life gain while accumulating mana to drop bombs (hence going over the top of midrange, aggro, or other control decks).
Strategy: This is a deck reminiscent of the current grixis delve deck, except it utilizes cards on the ban list instead to power itself up. It's a potent anti-combo deck with loads of disruption and an efficient clock.
Either Full powered Jund or Eggs bc i am that guy and i just love the deck
Oh wait i allready play this format i play a ravagerless affinity with frogmite and artifact lands in legacy. only thing "not modern legal" is lotus petal and swords to plowshares
I love Delver of Secrets and Young Pyromancer so I would like to try out something with those. Toss in Skullclamp and Treasure Cruise and I would think you had a pretty solid core. Anyone have experience with something along those lines?
I love Delver of Secrets and Young Pyromancer so I would like to try out something with those. Toss in Skullclamp and Treasure Cruise and I would think you had a pretty solid core. Anyone have experience with something along those lines?
Yep, I tried it, it sucked. This format is not legacy. Linear decks far outclass this deck. It lost against bogles, burn and twin.
As I always say: if your deck can't beat burn, play burn.
I'd play thopter/depths or hypergenesis combo or in other words the most degenerate decks from old extended.
Hypergenesis is extremely strong, but also an even bigger glass cannon than something like Griselbrand Reanimator. At the very minimum, it would probably be good against decks like Elves or Affinity, which are probably more powerful overall, but it gets destroyed by most of the slightly more fair decks. Yes, it can play some hate against such measures, but it also has to deal with the fact that it will lose to itself a good amount of the time.
Old extended IS a decent resource, but there are a lot of new players in this hypothetical format that weren't around back then.
1. Cloudpost Strategies are extremely strong, and can be very versatile. You can play UW cloudpost control that can ramp very quickly, reanimate from Gifts Ungiven, or simply play a control role that dominates other decks with very little effort.
2. Dark Depths is stronger than it used to be - The main thing here is that you can play Thespian's Stage for more redundancy and a more difficult to disrupt gameplan. Still requires building around, but there is no hand disruption or counterspell effect that can stop stage from copying depths. For this reason, it's a pretty strong combo against many of the more fair decks around that want to win off counterbalance or a tempo + disruption gameplan.
3. GSZ makes fair decks and hatebear decks much more potent. Realistically, you can come very close to playing full-legacy Maverick in this format. you don't get wastelands, but there are still a good amount of utility lands that work (tectonic edge, horizon canopy, township, bojuka bog, etc etc). GSZ also enables 1-mana ramp for decks like Scapeshift if they really want it.
4. Treasure Cruise is still insane in this format, and in my opinion, a stronger card than Skullclamp in many decks. Cruise wasn't around previously.
5. Midrange decks have way more tools than they did during old extended's hayday. They now have stoneforge mystic, tasigur, and other super strong cheap threats. But more important, they have a lot more tools that are potent against the unfair decks in the format with Deathrite Shaman, Liliana of the Veil, Kolaghan's Command, Sccavenging Ooze, and Abrupt Decay all being significant roadblocks to decks that want to win off synergy, or landing a few critical pieces.
6. Infect exists now. Personally, I think it's a bit of an overrated deck, but it would still likely be a player to at least some extent, which wasn't the case before.
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I think if MNBL were to get a foothold, it could either be super amazing....or super terrible beyond anything.
I would be concerned with Eggs, Shoal Infect (or other glass cannon infect), any skullclamp deck and just glass cannon decks in general.
What people chose to play would dictate what ends up being too good. If you had a MNBL GP for example, and 50% of the field is Eggs....well thats just nothing anyone wants a part of. If a field showed up and you had a relatively equal showing of glass cannon decks then I think that diversity wouldn't be a bad thing.
It would be extremely intereseting to see what a GP would bring if it was MNBL.
Doing ok so far. I cannot tell what really kills me: my own deck or other strategies. Because I can pod into thalia/wingmare/canonist, combo isn't a problem. Elves and twin have been an issue but the sideboard deals with them when possible.
I'll bring back results this weekend or next weekend.
I think that playing SFM in Pod is necessary, along with Jitte. That card singlehandedly wins against Elves (just be aware of Reclamation Sage which is awesome as 1-of in their MB).
The list seems a little "too cute". It looks a lot more like an old Standard Pod decklist (that wants to Pod into creatures till 7cmc), which isn't fast enough in that format.
I'd look at something more specific, like an Abzan Melira Pod, with the inclusion of GSZ (+Dryad Arbor), Stoneforge Mystic (2-of minimum, plus Jitte and Skullclamp MB).
Chord is very slow.
And what you said is true, Thalia and the other "hate" cards are good against combo, and are a necessity in the Maindeck.
This is a bit more focused on hating out other decks and threatening an infinite combo. SFM can help you against Elves with Jitte (and other aggro in general), and Skullclamp is nuts with your dorks and other creatures: once they are no more useful, just sac them to Clamp and draw, and do some more shenanigans.
The "bad" thing about Pod, from what I've seen in multiple games, is that it relies A LOT on Birthing Pod, because the format is so fast in the start that you have to play specific cards to slow down the opponent (if he plays unfair).
What do you think?
Keep in mind I don't have an unlimited budget
Based on your assessment, I would agree with SFM/Jitte and such however, with the cards provided you have the opportunity to use 1 of 4 combos. This flexibility is what allowed me to win several games while also ignoring my own disruption. I haven't posted the sideboard yet but essentially it involves worship, silent arbiter, trinket mage + several 1 cmc artifacts that hate. As you said it yourself, this is a disruption type of deck that threatens a combo.
For the clamp, if my strategy involved making x/1 tokens, I would be down for it but I haven't found a way yet.
I replaced viscera seer with Varolz for the sac outlet as he is also an alternate beater and can live through removal.
Because of the flexibility mentioned, I did not find the need to add spellskite although this may change in the future.
I personally do not like the CoCo type. It can heavily whiff and that's bad. I'd rather have fetchable combos that don't require too much.
In this list we have several 2 piece combos and 2 3 piece combos. If I can get the budget, I'll grab a Thune/Spikefeeder combo.
I think that playing SFM in Pod is necessary, along with Jitte. That card singlehandedly wins against Elves (just be aware of Reclamation Sage which is awesome as 1-of in their MB).
The list seems a little "too cute". It looks a lot more like an old Standard Pod decklist (that wants to Pod into creatures till 7cmc), which isn't fast enough in that format.
I'd look at something more specific, like an Abzan Melira Pod, with the inclusion of GSZ (+Dryad Arbor), Stoneforge Mystic (2-of minimum, plus Jitte and Skullclamp MB).
Chord is very slow.
And what you said is true, Thalia and the other "hate" cards are good against combo, and are a necessity in the Maindeck.
This is a bit more focused on hating out other decks and threatening an infinite combo. SFM can help you against Elves with Jitte (and other aggro in general), and Skullclamp is nuts with your dorks and other creatures: once they are no more useful, just sac them to Clamp and draw, and do some more shenanigans.
The "bad" thing about Pod, from what I've seen in multiple games, is that it relies A LOT on Birthing Pod, because the format is so fast in the start that you have to play specific cards to slow down the opponent (if he plays unfair).
What do you think?
Keep in mind I don't have an unlimited budget
Based on your assessment, I would agree with SFM/Jitte and such however, with the cards provided you have the opportunity to use 1 of 4 combos. This flexibility is what allowed me to win several games while also ignoring my own disruption. I haven't posted the sideboard yet but essentially it involves worship, silent arbiter, trinket mage + several 1 cmc artifacts that hate. As you said it yourself, this is a disruption type of deck that threatens a combo.
For the clamp, if my strategy involved making x/1 tokens, I would be down for it but I haven't found a way yet.
I replaced viscera seer with Varolz for the sac outlet as he is also an alternate beater and can live through removal.
Because of the flexibility mentioned, I did not find the need to add spellskite although this may change in the future.
I personally do not like the CoCo type. It can heavily whiff and that's bad. I'd rather have fetchable combos that don't require too much.
In this list we have several 2 piece combos and 2 3 piece combos. If I can get the budget, I'll grab a Thune/Spikefeeder combo.
You should include a phantasmal image because then the following chain becomes available:
with pod, any two drop, any one drop:
pod two drop into deceiver exarch, untap pod, pod one-drop into phantasmal image copying exarch, pod image into resto blinking exarch untapping pod, pod resto into kiki, kill.
This means you can more rapidly execute the combo chain from unexpected positions.
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Primary Decks:
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Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
We're organizing such an event here in Montreal around june. I think I'll also be sporting Tezzeret Control. With the artifact lands and thopter/sword combo, this has to be playable in such a format. Will report back once I get more time to dive into it. Help in developing it, from people having experienced no-banlist modern events before, would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.
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You should include a phantasmal image because then the following chain becomes available:
with pod, any two drop, any one drop:
pod two drop into deceiver exarch, untap pod, pod one-drop into phantasmal image copying exarch, pod image into resto blinking exarch untapping pod, pod resto into kiki, kill.
This means you can more rapidly execute the combo chain from unexpected positions.
Of course!! I used to do that in the older standard days! Genius!
First off, this isn't a turn 2 format. Very few decks here win consistently on turn 2, even with the ban list being removed, it would likely be more of a turn 3 format for the quickest combo decks. Most of the all-in combos can have a very rare nut-draw turn 2 win, but they're still mostly turn 3-4 decks.
Zoo did very well in old extended - a format with no-ban dredge, no-ban dark depths thopter, no-ban hypergenesis, no-ban elf combo (including symbiote), etc. Believe it or not, early pressure + a few well-placed maindeck hatebears makes it very difficult for combo decks to win. Thalia Zoo or Gaddock Teeg zoo + additional sideboard hate beats most combo decks, or you could alternatively go with a counter-cat style deck with zeniths, deathrite shamans, geists, and meddling mages in the board. Also, Twin is one of the best anti-combo decks around (even though it's a combo deck itself) and would be a very difficult matchup for decks like Storm, Elves, Infect, Etc.
That's not true. Thoughtseize, Spell Snare, Mental Misstep, Remand, Mana Leak, spell pierce, dispel, Inquisition of Kozilek, Abrupt Decay, all are potent tools against combo, not to mention more specialized cards like Chalice of the Void, or Counter-top combo. Also, what combo decks are you talking about? Half the combo decks in the format are vulnerable to a chalice of the void or Ethersworn Canonist. The other half die to graveyard hate or artifact hate (stony silence wrecks MANY decks here). If you really want, you can play mindbreak trap as well. The aggro decks and midrange decks will utilize Green Sun's Zenith turn 2 to find hatebears (gaddock teeg will likely be popular), and scooze / deathrite shaman will be potent against graveyard decks. If a black deck can survive until turn 4, Night of Souls betrayal wrecks half the format (an old extended tool that's great vs faeries, thopter combo, dark depths, delver variants, elves, infect, etc).
Storm and many other combos still have a very difficult time winning through Eidolon of the Great Revel.
The fact is, UR delver-cruise beats up on the majority of the combo decks in this format. Spell pierces + remands with a potent clock and card advantage just wrecks decks like Storm, Hypergenesis, and others. Tezzerator does as well. You don't need force of will.
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Hardly. Test against a gauntlet if you want. Hypergenesis is actually pretty inconsistent, and has no good way of fighting through disruption. A single spell pierce can often be the downfall of it, not to mention the fact that it loses to most of the common sideboard hate cards in the format.
It's funny, because a deck like All-in-red can really beat up hard on the unfair decks in the format, but it's absolutely awful against more fair strategies like GW Hatebears or Merfolk.
In my own testing, the format is similar to legacy in that decks looking to actually build with consistency in mind get to execute their gameplan EVERY game, without fail. Unlike legacy, there's very little to no potential for getting train-wrecked on the first or second turn--it's still largely a turn 3 format unless you're literally goldfishing, and the police cards that exist (hatebears, particularly thalia and teeg, lightning bolt/path, mental misstep/mana leak/spell pierce) are actually able to do their jobs because the overall format is mana-efficient enough that soft permission is once again viable.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Yeah in our MNBL Hatebears, DnT and Control were all the top dogs. They can be built to shut combo down fairly quick.
Additionally, white is actually a relevant color in this format as it has a lot of cards that truly shut down many of the potent combo decks in the format. Rest in Peace, Ethersworn Canonist, and Stony Silence in particular all are extremely powerful tools against the decks in the format that are more on the unfair side of things. Path to Exile is an important tool as well against dark depths decks.
One final thing is that Dark Depths combo is much better than it previously was, since you can combo with either Vampire Hexmage, or Thespian's Stage. The latter ability to combo off 2 lands allows depths decks to get a marit lage out regardless of whether an opponent has permission or discard. This is especially important against decks like UR Delver.
Dispatch being better makes dark depths worse though. If there are too many exile or edict effects running around it looses a lot of power. Even with life from the loam and crucible. It takes two turns to bring back the the thespian stage combo. Hex-mage is much quicker but gets stuck in the graveyard. We don't have all the good lands like legacy either or exploration to recover quickly or the crucible/life wasteland lock. Honestly, I would play dark depths in a grindy deck with lots of discard if there is a lot exile effects running around. But then again I have been of the opinion dark depths is fine currently in modern. Liliana, Path and cards like Echoing truth are pretty solid. It is just one big creature and it does not have haste.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
Control is a difficult deck to crack in an unknown meta. I sort of disagree that control isn't viable in NB modern, I actually think it's one of the stronger choices, but you need to be able to know what to anticipate in advance if we're being honest. Proactive decks don't have to worry about reacting as much to other decks - they simply need to do their thing and hope for the most part they can power through or race the opponent. Control doesnt really have that luxury.
With that said, in a combo-heavy format, decks that play a good mix of permission, discard, and sideboard hate (especially relevant sideboard hate) will be powerful. I tend to think control that can win off a combo finish like Scapeshift or even counterbalance is probably going to be superior in this format, but tempo also is quite powerful if you want to go with more of a control-ish mindset.
Here are some control lists I've had a lot of luck in testing against a pretty wide field (namely on cockatrice admittedly, but against a lot of known and powerful decks in a format like this). Note that 3 of the 4 decks play maindeck relic of Progenitus. That's a good start if you want to have a leg up on combo decks as well as quite a few "fair" decks.
UW Thopter Control
Strategy Win off fast mana, efficient removal and artifact hate. Can combo thopters against more fair decks combined with efficient disruption against unfair decks. Pretty simple and straightforward strategy, but has effective tools against every deck in the format except *maybe* 12 post decks, although this can often just race them when backed with permission.
Main weaknesses is stony silence or other artifact hate.
2x Ponder
2x Mana Leak
2x Stoic Rebuttal
4x Mental Misstep
4x Dispatch
2x Spell Snare
2x Thirst for Knowledge
Artifacts
3x Relic of Progenitus
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Thopter Foundry
3x Sword of the Meek
2x Trinket Mage
1x Pithing Needle
1x Engineered Explosives
4x Mox Opal
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Lands
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Ancient Den
4x Flooded Strand
3x Hallowed Fountain
2x Snow-Covered Island
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Dispel
3x Supreme Verdict
1x Steel Sabotage
1x Chalice of the Void
3x Disenchant
3x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Repeal
1x Negate
1x Nevermore
UB Planeswalker Prison
Strategy: Somewhat similar to the UW deck, this deck utilizes artifact hate to increase the tempo. Unlike UW thopters however, this is more of a prison deck that wants to drop early planeswalkers off artifact acceleration, then sit behind an ensnaring bridge as you win off the walkers or off thopter combos.
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Ponder
Planeswalkers
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts
3 Chrome Mox
4 Mox Opal
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Academy Ruins
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 River of Tears
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Duress
3 Echoing Truth
2 Spellskite
Izzet 12-post
Strategy: Slow the game down with efficient removal, disruption, and life gain while accumulating mana to drop bombs (hence going over the top of midrange, aggro, or other control decks).
4x Expedition Map
2x Spellskite
3x Relic of Progenitus
4x Izzet Signet
Instants / Sorceries
4x Preordain
4x Remand
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Thirst for Knowledge
3x Mental Misstep
2x Repeal
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Lands
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Cloudpost
3 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
1 Eye of Ugin
2x Dispel
3x Chalice of the Void
3x Spell Pierce
2x Crucible of Worlds
3x Shatterstorm
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
No-Banlist Grixis midrange/control
Strategy: This is a deck reminiscent of the current grixis delve deck, except it utilizes cards on the ban list instead to power itself up. It's a potent anti-combo deck with loads of disruption and an efficient clock.
4x Deathrite Shaman
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3x Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers
3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Disruption / Instants / Sorceries
2x Preordain
4x Ponder
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
2x Repeal
2x Kolaghan's Command
2x Remand
2x Spell Pierce
1x Terminate
2x Snow-Covered Island
1x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Snow-Covered Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
2x Watery Grave
1x Blood Crypt
1x Breeding Pool
2x Creeping Tar Pit
2x Night of Souls' Betrayal
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Relic of Progenitus
1x Pithing Needle
1x Shatterstorm
1x Pyroclasm
3x Blood Moon
1x Slaughter Games
1x Countersquall
Oh wait i allready play this format i play a ravagerless affinity with frogmite and artifact lands in legacy. only thing "not modern legal" is lotus petal and swords to plowshares
No wait i want to play with Umezawa's Jitte and Stoneforge Mystic
no no no i forgot about Sensei's Divining Top id try playing miracles with Jace, the mind sculptor
.. oh yeah this is why i want to play legacy instead of modern
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion Combo
GUEzuri, Claw of progress Morph
GUBSidisi, Brood tyrant
RWGisela, Blade of Goldnight Random red white cards i dont use.dec
GBLoam Pox
Modern
UBFaeries
GBWGoyfless Abzan
On Squirrels
On Risen Executioner
As I always say: if your deck can't beat burn, play burn.
RETIRED - GAME SUCKS
Modern:
UUUMerfolksUUU
RGoblinsR
Ad Nauseam
BR 8 Racks RB
WUB Mill BUW
Legacy:
XOps! All splels! X
What I think of MaRo
Hypergenesis is extremely strong, but also an even bigger glass cannon than something like Griselbrand Reanimator. At the very minimum, it would probably be good against decks like Elves or Affinity, which are probably more powerful overall, but it gets destroyed by most of the slightly more fair decks. Yes, it can play some hate against such measures, but it also has to deal with the fact that it will lose to itself a good amount of the time.
Old extended IS a decent resource, but there are a lot of new players in this hypothetical format that weren't around back then.
1. Cloudpost Strategies are extremely strong, and can be very versatile. You can play UW cloudpost control that can ramp very quickly, reanimate from Gifts Ungiven, or simply play a control role that dominates other decks with very little effort.
2. Dark Depths is stronger than it used to be - The main thing here is that you can play Thespian's Stage for more redundancy and a more difficult to disrupt gameplan. Still requires building around, but there is no hand disruption or counterspell effect that can stop stage from copying depths. For this reason, it's a pretty strong combo against many of the more fair decks around that want to win off counterbalance or a tempo + disruption gameplan.
3. GSZ makes fair decks and hatebear decks much more potent. Realistically, you can come very close to playing full-legacy Maverick in this format. you don't get wastelands, but there are still a good amount of utility lands that work (tectonic edge, horizon canopy, township, bojuka bog, etc etc). GSZ also enables 1-mana ramp for decks like Scapeshift if they really want it.
4. Treasure Cruise is still insane in this format, and in my opinion, a stronger card than Skullclamp in many decks. Cruise wasn't around previously.
5. Midrange decks have way more tools than they did during old extended's hayday. They now have stoneforge mystic, tasigur, and other super strong cheap threats. But more important, they have a lot more tools that are potent against the unfair decks in the format with Deathrite Shaman, Liliana of the Veil, Kolaghan's Command, Sccavenging Ooze, and Abrupt Decay all being significant roadblocks to decks that want to win off synergy, or landing a few critical pieces.
6. Infect exists now. Personally, I think it's a bit of an overrated deck, but it would still likely be a player to at least some extent, which wasn't the case before.
I would be concerned with Eggs, Shoal Infect (or other glass cannon infect), any skullclamp deck and just glass cannon decks in general.
What people chose to play would dictate what ends up being too good. If you had a MNBL GP for example, and 50% of the field is Eggs....well thats just nothing anyone wants a part of. If a field showed up and you had a relatively equal showing of glass cannon decks then I think that diversity wouldn't be a bad thing.
It would be extremely intereseting to see what a GP would bring if it was MNBL.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
Played this pod list with my group:
4 Birthing Pod
3 chord of calling
2 green sun's zenith
Creatures
1 Dryad arbor
3 deathrite Shaman
4 birds of paradise
1 melira, sylvok outcast
1 anafenza, kin-tree spirit
1 thalia, guardian of thraben
1 scavenging ooze
1 ethersworn canonist
1 reclamation sage
1 eternal witness
1 fiend hunter
1 deceiver exarch
1 vryn wingmare
2 kitchen finks
1 blade splicer
1 varolz, the scar-striped
1 restoration angel
1 bloodbraid elf
1 murderous redcap
1 solemn simulacrum
1 reveillark
1 acidic slime
1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
1 wurmcoil engine
1 sun titan
1 elesh norn, grand cenobite
20 lands
Doing ok so far. I cannot tell what really kills me: my own deck or other strategies. Because I can pod into thalia/wingmare/canonist, combo isn't a problem. Elves and twin have been an issue but the sideboard deals with them when possible.
I'll bring back results this weekend or next weekend.
RETIRED - GAME SUCKS
Modern:
UUUMerfolksUUU
RGoblinsR
Ad Nauseam
BR 8 Racks RB
WUB Mill BUW
Legacy:
XOps! All splels! X
What I think of MaRo
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Based on your assessment, I would agree with SFM/Jitte and such however, with the cards provided you have the opportunity to use 1 of 4 combos. This flexibility is what allowed me to win several games while also ignoring my own disruption. I haven't posted the sideboard yet but essentially it involves worship, silent arbiter, trinket mage + several 1 cmc artifacts that hate. As you said it yourself, this is a disruption type of deck that threatens a combo.
For the clamp, if my strategy involved making x/1 tokens, I would be down for it but I haven't found a way yet.
I replaced viscera seer with Varolz for the sac outlet as he is also an alternate beater and can live through removal.
Because of the flexibility mentioned, I did not find the need to add spellskite although this may change in the future.
I personally do not like the CoCo type. It can heavily whiff and that's bad. I'd rather have fetchable combos that don't require too much.
In this list we have several 2 piece combos and 2 3 piece combos. If I can get the budget, I'll grab a Thune/Spikefeeder combo.
RETIRED - GAME SUCKS
Modern:
UUUMerfolksUUU
RGoblinsR
Ad Nauseam
BR 8 Racks RB
WUB Mill BUW
Legacy:
XOps! All splels! X
What I think of MaRo
You should include a phantasmal image because then the following chain becomes available:
with pod, any two drop, any one drop:
pod two drop into deceiver exarch, untap pod, pod one-drop into phantasmal image copying exarch, pod image into resto blinking exarch untapping pod, pod resto into kiki, kill.
This means you can more rapidly execute the combo chain from unexpected positions.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
RETIRED - GAME SUCKS
Modern:
UUUMerfolksUUU
RGoblinsR
Ad Nauseam
BR 8 Racks RB
WUB Mill BUW
Legacy:
XOps! All splels! X
What I think of MaRo
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards