thats why i said not many, despite that for most decks 7 mana are not as easily achieved as 4 and even then karn doesnt ultimate win the game on the spot, its more often then not a needless risk. Ugin on the other hand doesnt even need to ultimate to win the game.
If you want to compare nahiri you should use a walker with similiar cost like ajani v.
Nahiri can actually try to race scapeshift and other combo stuff for UWR.
In general for UWR she can end games quickly instead of risking a recovery from the opponent (uwr used resto kikki quite a lot for faster wins which gives the opponents removal targets which also nahiro does not)
If Nahiri can just be slammed into other decks? Only if they can protect her. You can probably force your opponent to make bad trades if you play her in a creature based deck which could also work out, 6 loyality is pretty resilent.
Hmm...you know? The same principle can also be applied to another Planeswalker, Narset Transcendent. She has a CMC of 4, and can get 7 loyality when landing...
She is still looking for a home in Modern as well.
Those are both only played in a single deck. Nahiri's price can explode since she's being slotted into multiple decks in multiple formats. I know she's already jumped, but anybody considering her should get in now before another spike.
Those are both only played in a single deck. Nahiri's price can explode since she's being slotted into multiple decks in multiple formats. I know she's already jumped, but anybody considering her should get in now before another spike.
I'm fairly confident that she won't be as rampant as people are predicting.
I'll save my money She's good... but meh. I'd rather spend my money on goyfs and lilis and play jund. Safer investment. lol
Those are both only played in a single deck. Nahiri's price can explode since she's being slotted into multiple decks in multiple formats. I know she's already jumped, but anybody considering her should get in now before another spike.
I'm fairly confident that she won't be as rampant as people are predicting.
I'll save my money She's good... but meh. I'd rather spend my money on goyfs and lilis and play jund. Safer investment. lol
I'm not predicting she'll be "rampant," just that she can slot into a few Modern decks as well as a couple Legacy and Vintage decks. She's also Standard legal right now. So her price can explode if she sees decent play in the GP weekend.
Those are both only played in a single deck. Nahiri's price can explode since she's being slotted into multiple decks in multiple formats. I know she's already jumped, but anybody considering her should get in now before another spike.
I'm fairly confident that she won't be as rampant as people are predicting.
I'll save my money She's good... but meh. I'd rather spend my money on goyfs and lilis and play jund. Safer investment. lol
I'm not predicting she'll be "rampant," just that she can slot into a few Modern decks as well as a couple Legacy and Vintage decks. She's also Standard legal right now. So her price can explode if she sees decent play in the GP weekend.
I'm not even sure she's good enough in modern.
There are a few problems with her.
1) she is a card that REQUIRES at least 5 slots (four for her, and at least one big threat to get). That's alot of card space dedication required for a planeswalker (especially in a super fast format of modern).
2) Her + and - abilities are "ok" sub-par at worst. Don't get me wrong... they are situationally good (and the fact that her + turns emrakul into a quasi elixir of immortality has the timmy in my screaming for joy. But... I feel like it's too situational for modern.
3) This is the first planeswalker where the ultimate outshines all of the other abilities. Traditionally... you don't play a planeswalker for it's alt. Historically you've never been able to rely on the alt as the reason to play a walker.
thats why i said not many, despite that for most decks 7 mana are not as easily achieved as 4 and even then karn doesnt ultimate win the game on the spot, its more often then not a needless risk. Ugin on the other hand doesnt even need to ultimate to win the game.
If you want to compare nahiri you should use a walker with similiar cost like ajani v.
Nahiri can actually try to race scapeshift and other combo stuff for UWR.
In general for UWR she can end games quickly instead of risking a recovery from the opponent (uwr used resto kikki quite a lot for faster wins which gives the opponents removal targets which also nahiro does not)
If Nahiri can just be slammed into other decks? Only if they can protect her. You can probably force your opponent to make bad trades if you play her in a creature based deck which could also work out, 6 loyality is pretty resilent.
Hmm...you know? The same principle can also be applied to another Planeswalker, Narset Transcendent. She has a CMC of 4, and can get 7 loyality when landing...
She is still looking for a home in Modern as well.
Narset's main issue is that there isn't a combination spells that are back breaking to rebound. Tokens/time walk effects are good but those decks have other issues.
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Those are both only played in a single deck. Nahiri's price can explode since she's being slotted into multiple decks in multiple formats. I know she's already jumped, but anybody considering her should get in now before another spike.
I'm fairly confident that she won't be as rampant as people are predicting.
I'll save my money She's good... but meh. I'd rather spend my money on goyfs and lilis and play jund. Safer investment. lol
I'm not predicting she'll be "rampant," just that she can slot into a few Modern decks as well as a couple Legacy and Vintage decks. She's also Standard legal right now. So her price can explode if she sees decent play in the GP weekend.
I'm not even sure she's good enough in modern.
There are a few problems with her.
1) she is a card that REQUIRES at least 5 slots (four for her, and at least one big threat to get). That's alot of card space dedication required for a planeswalker (especially in a super fast format of modern).
2) Her + and - abilities are "ok" sub-par at worst. Don't get me wrong... they are situationally good (and the fact that her + turns emrakul into a quasi elixir of immortality has the timmy in my screaming for joy. But... I feel like it's too situational for modern.
3) This is the first planeswalker where the ultimate outshines all of the other abilities. Traditionally... you don't play a planeswalker for it's alt. Historically you've never been able to rely on the alt as the reason to play a walker.
I'm gonna let the cat out of the bag, Nahiri is good enough Top level brewers are already having tons of success with her for the reasons stated. It's not a matter of "is Nahiri viable," it's a matter of what else can play her.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Those are both only played in a single deck. Nahiri's price can explode since she's being slotted into multiple decks in multiple formats. I know she's already jumped, but anybody considering her should get in now before another spike.
I'm fairly confident that she won't be as rampant as people are predicting.
I'll save my money She's good... but meh. I'd rather spend my money on goyfs and lilis and play jund. Safer investment. lol
I'm not predicting she'll be "rampant," just that she can slot into a few Modern decks as well as a couple Legacy and Vintage decks. She's also Standard legal right now. So her price can explode if she sees decent play in the GP weekend.
I'm not even sure she's good enough in modern.
There are a few problems with her.
1) she is a card that REQUIRES at least 5 slots (four for her, and at least one big threat to get). That's alot of card space dedication required for a planeswalker (especially in a super fast format of modern).
2) Her + and - abilities are "ok" sub-par at worst. Don't get me wrong... they are situationally good (and the fact that her + turns emrakul into a quasi elixir of immortality has the timmy in my screaming for joy. But... I feel like it's too situational for modern.
3) This is the first planeswalker where the ultimate outshines all of the other abilities. Traditionally... you don't play a planeswalker for it's alt. Historically you've never been able to rely on the alt as the reason to play a walker.
She requires 5 slots. The Twin package required 10 slots. Yes, one takes a PW ult to achieve whereas the other is just a creature and an aura, but you've saved 5 slots that can go back to what the deck does - durdle. And if you can durdle, you can ult. The first two abilities are also very underrated. Looting is great, ESPECIALLY in a control or tempo deck looking for the right cards, and it gives +2. She's also a 4CMC walker with 4 starting loyalty, which is the sweet spot.
Those are both only played in a single deck. Nahiri's price can explode since she's being slotted into multiple decks in multiple formats. I know she's already jumped, but anybody considering her should get in now before another spike.
I'm fairly confident that she won't be as rampant as people are predicting.
I'll save my money She's good... but meh. I'd rather spend my money on goyfs and lilis and play jund. Safer investment. lol
I'm not predicting she'll be "rampant," just that she can slot into a few Modern decks as well as a couple Legacy and Vintage decks. She's also Standard legal right now. So her price can explode if she sees decent play in the GP weekend.
I'm not even sure she's good enough in modern.
There are a few problems with her.
1) she is a card that REQUIRES at least 5 slots (four for her, and at least one big threat to get). That's alot of card space dedication required for a planeswalker (especially in a super fast format of modern).
2) Her + and - abilities are "ok" sub-par at worst. Don't get me wrong... they are situationally good (and the fact that her + turns emrakul into a quasi elixir of immortality has the timmy in my screaming for joy. But... I feel like it's too situational for modern.
3) This is the first planeswalker where the ultimate outshines all of the other abilities. Traditionally... you don't play a planeswalker for it's alt. Historically you've never been able to rely on the alt as the reason to play a walker.
She requires 5 slots. The Twin package required 10 slots. Yes, one takes a PW ult to achieve whereas the other is just a creature and an aura, but you've saved 5 slots that can go back to what the deck does - durdle. And if you can durdle, you can ult. The first two abilities are also very underrated. Looting is great, ESPECIALLY in a control or tempo deck looking for the right cards, and it gives +2. She's also a 4CMC walker with 4 starting loyalty, which is the sweet spot.
Not entirely comparable. The twin slot was also good even if you never drew the combo. (plus it was an instant win if you did the draw the combo).
For example: splinter twin on a clique or pia was a quasi lockout. Splinter-twin on a snapcaster could net you endless value.
Nahiri does not have the same power level unless you ult her.
Also: looting is good yes. But you have better ways to loot in those colors that both require fewer slots AND are less expensive (Jace, Lighthouse, etc.).
I don't see her being good vs Jund or Abzan. Nor against aggro. And potentially too slow vs Tron even. So I'm not sure.
1) she is a card that REQUIRES at least 5 slots (four for her, and at least one big threat to get). That's alot of card space dedication required for a planeswalker (especially in a super fast format of modern).
I'm not even sure you would need 4 copies, you might as well run 3 copies and add filtering (to get her and get rid of emrakul, the aeons torn) like:
I'm fairly confident that she won't be as rampant as people are predicting.
I'll save my money She's good... but meh. I'd rather spend my money on goyfs and lilis and play jund. Safer investment. lol
I'm not predicting she'll be "rampant," just that she can slot into a few Modern decks as well as a couple Legacy and Vintage decks. She's also Standard legal right now. So her price can explode if she sees decent play in the GP weekend.
I'm not even sure she's good enough in modern.
There are a few problems with her.
1) she is a card that REQUIRES at least 5 slots (four for her, and at least one big threat to get). That's alot of card space dedication required for a planeswalker (especially in a super fast format of modern).
2) Her + and - abilities are "ok" sub-par at worst. Don't get me wrong... they are situationally good (and the fact that her + turns emrakul into a quasi elixir of immortality has the timmy in my screaming for joy. But... I feel like it's too situational for modern.
3) This is the first planeswalker where the ultimate outshines all of the other abilities. Traditionally... you don't play a planeswalker for it's alt. Historically you've never been able to rely on the alt as the reason to play a walker.
She requires 5 slots. The Twin package required 10 slots. Yes, one takes a PW ult to achieve whereas the other is just a creature and an aura, but you've saved 5 slots that can go back to what the deck does - durdle. And if you can durdle, you can ult. The first two abilities are also very underrated. Looting is great, ESPECIALLY in a control or tempo deck looking for the right cards, and it gives +2. She's also a 4CMC walker with 4 starting loyalty, which is the sweet spot.
Not entirely comparable. The twin slot was also good even if you never drew the combo. (plus it was an instant win if you did the draw the combo).
For example: splinter twin on a clique or pia was a quasi lockout. Splinter-twin on a snapcaster could net you endless value.
Nahiri does not have the same power level unless you ult her.
Also: looting is good yes. But you have better ways to loot in those colors that both require fewer slots AND are less expensive (Jace, Lighthouse, etc.).
I don't see her being good vs Jund or Abzan. Nor against aggro. And potentially too slow vs Tron even. So I'm not sure.
When you say "Abzan," do you mean the Midrange deck like Jund but just different colors or do you mean the CoCo deck? I always assume Midrange unless someone specifically says CoCo, but some people have been using them interchangeably.
I think the Nahiri/Emrakul duo is very difficult for Jund/Abzan to interact with. I also think you may be underestimating the fact that the decks she's slotting into are already geared toward beating aggro, but now they've just gained another win-con, one that can win out of nowhere, which is a void that was left with the Twin banning. The Tron matchup you may be right, but counterspells are very good in that matchup.
I'm not predicting she'll be "rampant," just that she can slot into a few Modern decks as well as a couple Legacy and Vintage decks. She's also Standard legal right now. So her price can explode if she sees decent play in the GP weekend.
I'm not even sure she's good enough in modern.
There are a few problems with her.
1) she is a card that REQUIRES at least 5 slots (four for her, and at least one big threat to get). That's alot of card space dedication required for a planeswalker (especially in a super fast format of modern).
2) Her + and - abilities are "ok" sub-par at worst. Don't get me wrong... they are situationally good (and the fact that her + turns emrakul into a quasi elixir of immortality has the timmy in my screaming for joy. But... I feel like it's too situational for modern.
3) This is the first planeswalker where the ultimate outshines all of the other abilities. Traditionally... you don't play a planeswalker for it's alt. Historically you've never been able to rely on the alt as the reason to play a walker.
She requires 5 slots. The Twin package required 10 slots. Yes, one takes a PW ult to achieve whereas the other is just a creature and an aura, but you've saved 5 slots that can go back to what the deck does - durdle. And if you can durdle, you can ult. The first two abilities are also very underrated. Looting is great, ESPECIALLY in a control or tempo deck looking for the right cards, and it gives +2. She's also a 4CMC walker with 4 starting loyalty, which is the sweet spot.
Not entirely comparable. The twin slot was also good even if you never drew the combo. (plus it was an instant win if you did the draw the combo).
For example: splinter twin on a clique or pia was a quasi lockout. Splinter-twin on a snapcaster could net you endless value.
Nahiri does not have the same power level unless you ult her.
Also: looting is good yes. But you have better ways to loot in those colors that both require fewer slots AND are less expensive (Jace, Lighthouse, etc.).
I don't see her being good vs Jund or Abzan. Nor against aggro. And potentially too slow vs Tron even. So I'm not sure.
When you say "Abzan," do you mean the Midrange deck like Jund but just different colors or do you mean the CoCo deck? I always assume Midrange unless someone specifically says CoCo, but some people have been using them interchangeably.
I think the Nahiri/Emrakul duo is very difficult for Jund/Abzan to interact with. I also think you may be underestimating the fact that the decks she's slotting into are already geared toward beating aggro, but now they've just gained another win-con, one that can win out of nowhere, which is a void that was left with the Twin banning. The Tron matchup you may be right, but counterspells are very good in that matchup.
I meant coco.
The thing is... "winning out of no where" is a stretch. Not in a format dedicated by cheap, effective beats and lightning bolt.
As a Grixis player... I don't think I'd fear a resolved Nahiri. If I can't kill it... chances are I was not winning anyways even if they had drawn a snapcaster instead...
The only deck that can actually "win out of no where" is coco.
I'm not even sure she's good enough in modern.
There are a few problems with her.
1) she is a card that REQUIRES at least 5 slots (four for her, and at least one big threat to get). That's alot of card space dedication required for a planeswalker (especially in a super fast format of modern).
2) Her + and - abilities are "ok" sub-par at worst. Don't get me wrong... they are situationally good (and the fact that her + turns emrakul into a quasi elixir of immortality has the timmy in my screaming for joy. But... I feel like it's too situational for modern.
3) This is the first planeswalker where the ultimate outshines all of the other abilities. Traditionally... you don't play a planeswalker for it's alt. Historically you've never been able to rely on the alt as the reason to play a walker.
She requires 5 slots. The Twin package required 10 slots. Yes, one takes a PW ult to achieve whereas the other is just a creature and an aura, but you've saved 5 slots that can go back to what the deck does - durdle. And if you can durdle, you can ult. The first two abilities are also very underrated. Looting is great, ESPECIALLY in a control or tempo deck looking for the right cards, and it gives +2. She's also a 4CMC walker with 4 starting loyalty, which is the sweet spot.
Not entirely comparable. The twin slot was also good even if you never drew the combo. (plus it was an instant win if you did the draw the combo).
For example: splinter twin on a clique or pia was a quasi lockout. Splinter-twin on a snapcaster could net you endless value.
Nahiri does not have the same power level unless you ult her.
Also: looting is good yes. But you have better ways to loot in those colors that both require fewer slots AND are less expensive (Jace, Lighthouse, etc.).
I don't see her being good vs Jund or Abzan. Nor against aggro. And potentially too slow vs Tron even. So I'm not sure.
When you say "Abzan," do you mean the Midrange deck like Jund but just different colors or do you mean the CoCo deck? I always assume Midrange unless someone specifically says CoCo, but some people have been using them interchangeably.
I think the Nahiri/Emrakul duo is very difficult for Jund/Abzan to interact with. I also think you may be underestimating the fact that the decks she's slotting into are already geared toward beating aggro, but now they've just gained another win-con, one that can win out of nowhere, which is a void that was left with the Twin banning. The Tron matchup you may be right, but counterspells are very good in that matchup.
I meant coco.
The thing is... "winning out of no where" is a stretch. Not in a format dedicated by cheap, effective beats and lightning bolt.
As a Grixis player... I don't think I'd fear a resolved Nahiri. If I can't kill it... chances are I was not winning anyways even if they had drawn a snapcaster instead...
The only deck that can actually "win out of no where" is coco.
I actually like that Nahiri doesn't just "win out of nowhere." It feels like a good control threat: stabilize, take control of the game, and if you can protect your threat, you WILL win. I think nahiri actually hits the sweet spot of "not oppressive" because you get 3 turns to find an out and "not agonizing" because it doesn't take forever to actually win, as well as actually helping the control deck just with the first abilities.
Unlike twin, which was a feel bad because it was really just "oops I win" and unlike controls other finishers, which are either too slow or too easy to kill, personally this feels like the card I have always wanted for modern: a reliable finisher that isn't terrible when you are behind (It can be removal too, or help you find an out).
EDIT: it feels like a slightly better ajani (better in control, not necessarily in general).
She requires 5 slots. The Twin package required 10 slots. Yes, one takes a PW ult to achieve whereas the other is just a creature and an aura, but you've saved 5 slots that can go back to what the deck does - durdle. And if you can durdle, you can ult. The first two abilities are also very underrated. Looting is great, ESPECIALLY in a control or tempo deck looking for the right cards, and it gives +2. She's also a 4CMC walker with 4 starting loyalty, which is the sweet spot.
Not entirely comparable. The twin slot was also good even if you never drew the combo. (plus it was an instant win if you did the draw the combo).
For example: splinter twin on a clique or pia was a quasi lockout. Splinter-twin on a snapcaster could net you endless value.
Nahiri does not have the same power level unless you ult her.
Also: looting is good yes. But you have better ways to loot in those colors that both require fewer slots AND are less expensive (Jace, Lighthouse, etc.).
I don't see her being good vs Jund or Abzan. Nor against aggro. And potentially too slow vs Tron even. So I'm not sure.
When you say "Abzan," do you mean the Midrange deck like Jund but just different colors or do you mean the CoCo deck? I always assume Midrange unless someone specifically says CoCo, but some people have been using them interchangeably.
I think the Nahiri/Emrakul duo is very difficult for Jund/Abzan to interact with. I also think you may be underestimating the fact that the decks she's slotting into are already geared toward beating aggro, but now they've just gained another win-con, one that can win out of nowhere, which is a void that was left with the Twin banning. The Tron matchup you may be right, but counterspells are very good in that matchup.
I meant coco.
The thing is... "winning out of no where" is a stretch. Not in a format dedicated by cheap, effective beats and lightning bolt.
As a Grixis player... I don't think I'd fear a resolved Nahiri. If I can't kill it... chances are I was not winning anyways even if they had drawn a snapcaster instead...
The only deck that can actually "win out of no where" is coco.
I actually like that Nahiri doesn't just "win out of nowhere." It feels like a good control threat: stabilize, take control of the game, and if you can protect your threat, you WILL win. I think nahiri actually hits the sweet spot of "not oppressive" because you get 3 turns to find an out and "not agonizing" because it doesn't take forever to actually win, as well as actually helping the control deck just with the first abilities.
Unlike twin, which was a feel bad because it was really just "oops I win" and unlike controls other finishers, which are either too slow or too easy to kill, personally this feels like the card I have always wanted for modern: a reliable finisher that isn't terrible when you are behind (It can be removal too, or help you find an out).
EDIT: it feels like a slightly better ajani (better in control, not necessarily in general).
Finally someone who gets it. People are playing Nahiri because she is just a great card, not just because of the ult.
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Unlike twin, which was a feel bad because it was really just "oops I win" and unlike controls other finishers, which are either too slow or too easy to kill, personally this feels like the card I have always wanted for modern: a reliable finisher that isn't terrible when you are behind (It can be removal too, or help you find an out).
I would argue that the "oops I win" factor helped the deck more psychologically than actually "oops I win"-ing. The tempo shell is pretty mediocre and it simply can't reliably win WITHOUT that threat (whether real or implied). It remains to be seen if Nahiri/Emrakul can present enough pressure fast enough or be protected reliably enough to make the deck actually good, but it's the most promising thing so far. I know I will be trying it out, but I'm also waiting for two more copies in the mail.
Not entirely comparable. The twin slot was also good even if you never drew the combo. (plus it was an instant win if you did the draw the combo).
For example: splinter twin on a clique or pia was a quasi lockout. Splinter-twin on a snapcaster could net you endless value.
Nahiri does not have the same power level unless you ult her.
Also: looting is good yes. But you have better ways to loot in those colors that both require fewer slots AND are less expensive (Jace, Lighthouse, etc.).
I don't see her being good vs Jund or Abzan. Nor against aggro. And potentially too slow vs Tron even. So I'm not sure.
When you say "Abzan," do you mean the Midrange deck like Jund but just different colors or do you mean the CoCo deck? I always assume Midrange unless someone specifically says CoCo, but some people have been using them interchangeably.
I think the Nahiri/Emrakul duo is very difficult for Jund/Abzan to interact with. I also think you may be underestimating the fact that the decks she's slotting into are already geared toward beating aggro, but now they've just gained another win-con, one that can win out of nowhere, which is a void that was left with the Twin banning. The Tron matchup you may be right, but counterspells are very good in that matchup.
I meant coco.
The thing is... "winning out of no where" is a stretch. Not in a format dedicated by cheap, effective beats and lightning bolt.
As a Grixis player... I don't think I'd fear a resolved Nahiri. If I can't kill it... chances are I was not winning anyways even if they had drawn a snapcaster instead...
The only deck that can actually "win out of no where" is coco.
I actually like that Nahiri doesn't just "win out of nowhere." It feels like a good control threat: stabilize, take control of the game, and if you can protect your threat, you WILL win. I think nahiri actually hits the sweet spot of "not oppressive" because you get 3 turns to find an out and "not agonizing" because it doesn't take forever to actually win, as well as actually helping the control deck just with the first abilities.
Unlike twin, which was a feel bad because it was really just "oops I win" and unlike controls other finishers, which are either too slow or too easy to kill, personally this feels like the card I have always wanted for modern: a reliable finisher that isn't terrible when you are behind (It can be removal too, or help you find an out).
EDIT: it feels like a slightly better ajani (better in control, not necessarily in general).
Agreed. She's better card than most people give her credit for and deserves place in Modern. She has good utility, can provide a lot of valu and it's hard to kill.
When you say "Abzan," do you mean the Midrange deck like Jund but just different colors or do you mean the CoCo deck? I always assume Midrange unless someone specifically says CoCo, but some people have been using them interchangeably.
I think the Nahiri/Emrakul duo is very difficult for Jund/Abzan to interact with. I also think you may be underestimating the fact that the decks she's slotting into are already geared toward beating aggro, but now they've just gained another win-con, one that can win out of nowhere, which is a void that was left with the Twin banning. The Tron matchup you may be right, but counterspells are very good in that matchup.
I meant coco.
The thing is... "winning out of no where" is a stretch. Not in a format dedicated by cheap, effective beats and lightning bolt.
As a Grixis player... I don't think I'd fear a resolved Nahiri. If I can't kill it... chances are I was not winning anyways even if they had drawn a snapcaster instead...
The only deck that can actually "win out of no where" is coco.
I actually like that Nahiri doesn't just "win out of nowhere." It feels like a good control threat: stabilize, take control of the game, and if you can protect your threat, you WILL win. I think nahiri actually hits the sweet spot of "not oppressive" because you get 3 turns to find an out and "not agonizing" because it doesn't take forever to actually win, as well as actually helping the control deck just with the first abilities.
Unlike twin, which was a feel bad because it was really just "oops I win" and unlike controls other finishers, which are either too slow or too easy to kill, personally this feels like the card I have always wanted for modern: a reliable finisher that isn't terrible when you are behind (It can be removal too, or help you find an out).
EDIT: it feels like a slightly better ajani (better in control, not necessarily in general).
Agreed. She's better card than most people give her credit for and deserves place in Modern. She has good utility, can provide a lot of valu and it's hard to kill.
In most cases I would rather have Ajani.
Been feeling the opposite since she was spoiled.
But then again I stand by Nahiri being one of the strongest post-board PWs you can dig out, since she's like an anti-SB card, if that makes any sense.
I'm not a huge fan of Nahiri. The main problem with her (in my opinion) is it's a build around me card. It screams Timmy.
The most effective decks with Nahiri will have x4 Nahiri, x1 emerkaul. That's 5 dedicated slots to a pw that really doesn't do anything else.
The +1 is "nice" but there are more efficient (and better) similar effects.
The -2 is situational. Similar to Gideon's -2 ability. Not bad... but not great.
The ultimate is fantastic. But is really the only thing going for her.
That package will be most effective in decks that already have another game plan, it'll force opponents to make difficult decisions about where to allocate resources and whether to deal with [Insert Deck]'s main strategy or whether to try and get Nahiri off the table to avoid the imminent auto-loss.
This is the main reason I think Chord is the ideal deck for her, Chord already has a combo it can rather reliably build up to, while also doing a fair job of creating value - adding the Nahiri package to that just adds a parallel threat while her +/- abilities are also very synergistic with Chord in general. I doubt she'll end up being a PW that'll have to get played in every deck running the colors, though.
I play Nahiri in my chord [archangel-feeder] deck and her ability to tutor for the second combo creature is generally good enough. The draw filtering is amazing. The power with Courser of Kruphix of seeing up to 3 cards deep every turn is really strong. Having things like walls and Courser to block for her can really shut the game down, as well.
So far I like her better in a deck with blockers than a deck trying to control the board with removal and sweepers.
I play Nahiri in my chord [archangel-feeder] deck and her ability to tutor for the second combo creature is generally good enough. The draw filtering is amazing. The power with Courser of Kruphix of seeing up to 3 cards deep every turn is really strong. Having things like walls and Courser to block for her can really shut the game down, as well.
So far I like her better in a deck with blockers than a deck trying to control the board with removal and sweepers.
I agree with this. There's no feeling like sitting behind Wall of Omens and Wall of Roots with a Nahiri, the Harbinger ticking up. Plus, with Chord of Calling, you don't have to choose between going for the combo or getting the defense piece if Nahiri is ticking up since Nahiri should be all the offense you'll need.
However, I am going to get a better perspective on UWR Nahiri because I am going to be doing 6 rounds of that at my FNM this Friday. Wish me luck!
Lastly, I think Equinox and others get it. Nahiri, the Harbinger is a very powerful Planeswalker.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I play Nahiri in my chord [archangel-feeder] deck and her ability to tutor for the second combo creature is generally good enough. The draw filtering is amazing. The power with Courser of Kruphix of seeing up to 3 cards deep every turn is really strong. Having things like walls and Courser to block for her can really shut the game down, as well.
So far I like her better in a deck with blockers than a deck trying to control the board with removal and sweepers.
I agree with this. There's no feeling like sitting behind Wall of Omens and Wall of Roots with a Nahiri, the Harbinger ticking up. Plus, with Chord of Calling, you don't have to choose between going for the combo or getting the defense piece if Nahiri is ticking up since Nahiri should be all the offense you'll need.
However, I am going to get a better perspective on UWR Nahiri because I am going to be doing 6 rounds of that at my FNM this Friday. Wish me luck!
Lastly, I think Equinox and others get it. Nahiri, the Harbinger is a very powerful Planeswalker.
What I don't get is how with alarming regularity it's the Planeswalkers most swiftly dismissed during spoiler season that become breakout hits.
I play Nahiri in my chord [archangel-feeder] deck and her ability to tutor for the second combo creature is generally good enough. The draw filtering is amazing. The power with Courser of Kruphix of seeing up to 3 cards deep every turn is really strong. Having things like walls and Courser to block for her can really shut the game down, as well.
So far I like her better in a deck with blockers than a deck trying to control the board with removal and sweepers.
I agree with this. There's no feeling like sitting behind Wall of Omens and Wall of Roots with a Nahiri, the Harbinger ticking up. Plus, with Chord of Calling, you don't have to choose between going for the combo or getting the defense piece if Nahiri is ticking up since Nahiri should be all the offense you'll need.
However, I am going to get a better perspective on UWR Nahiri because I am going to be doing 6 rounds of that at my FNM this Friday. Wish me luck!
Lastly, I think Equinox and others get it. Nahiri, the Harbinger is a very powerful Planeswalker.
What I don't get is how with alarming regularity it's the Planeswalkers most swiftly dismissed during spoiler season that become breakout hits.
I will admit that I personally dismiss them. But when I saw that Nahiri was being played with my favorite creature of all time, I thought I'd give it a try. I haven't seen the negatives yet, but only have played just a bit so far.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I play Nahiri in my chord [archangel-feeder] deck and her ability to tutor for the second combo creature is generally good enough. The draw filtering is amazing. The power with Courser of Kruphix of seeing up to 3 cards deep every turn is really strong. Having things like walls and Courser to block for her can really shut the game down, as well.
So far I like her better in a deck with blockers than a deck trying to control the board with removal and sweepers.
I agree with this. There's no feeling like sitting behind Wall of Omens and Wall of Roots with a Nahiri, the Harbinger ticking up. Plus, with Chord of Calling, you don't have to choose between going for the combo or getting the defense piece if Nahiri is ticking up since Nahiri should be all the offense you'll need.
However, I am going to get a better perspective on UWR Nahiri because I am going to be doing 6 rounds of that at my FNM this Friday. Wish me luck!
Lastly, I think Equinox and others get it. Nahiri, the Harbinger is a very powerful Planeswalker.
What I don't get is how with alarming regularity it's the Planeswalkers most swiftly dismissed during spoiler season that become breakout hits.
There's an incessant desire in this community to sound intelligent. Often that takes the form of throwing crap on the wall to see what sticks.
OK, now I am joining the Nahiri party: spending 85 USD for a playset.
From my past experience, this is a stupid decision given by the the current price tag. But, anyway
Hmm...you know? The same principle can also be applied to another Planeswalker, Narset Transcendent. She has a CMC of 4, and can get 7 loyality when landing...
She is still looking for a home in Modern as well.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I'm fairly confident that she won't be as rampant as people are predicting.
I'll save my money She's good... but meh. I'd rather spend my money on goyfs and lilis and play jund. Safer investment. lol
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I'm not even sure she's good enough in modern.
There are a few problems with her.
1) she is a card that REQUIRES at least 5 slots (four for her, and at least one big threat to get). That's alot of card space dedication required for a planeswalker (especially in a super fast format of modern).
2) Her + and - abilities are "ok" sub-par at worst. Don't get me wrong... they are situationally good (and the fact that her + turns emrakul into a quasi elixir of immortality has the timmy in my screaming for joy. But... I feel like it's too situational for modern.
3) This is the first planeswalker where the ultimate outshines all of the other abilities. Traditionally... you don't play a planeswalker for it's alt. Historically you've never been able to rely on the alt as the reason to play a walker.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Narset's main issue is that there isn't a combination spells that are back breaking to rebound. Tokens/time walk effects are good but those decks have other issues.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I'm gonna let the cat out of the bag, Nahiri is good enough Top level brewers are already having tons of success with her for the reasons stated. It's not a matter of "is Nahiri viable," it's a matter of what else can play her.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Not entirely comparable. The twin slot was also good even if you never drew the combo. (plus it was an instant win if you did the draw the combo).
For example: splinter twin on a clique or pia was a quasi lockout. Splinter-twin on a snapcaster could net you endless value.
Nahiri does not have the same power level unless you ult her.
Also: looting is good yes. But you have better ways to loot in those colors that both require fewer slots AND are less expensive (Jace, Lighthouse, etc.).
I don't see her being good vs Jund or Abzan. Nor against aggro. And potentially too slow vs Tron even. So I'm not sure.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I'm not even sure you would need 4 copies, you might as well run 3 copies and add filtering (to get her and get rid of emrakul, the aeons torn) like:
which are cards most of those decks are already playing...
I think the Nahiri/Emrakul duo is very difficult for Jund/Abzan to interact with. I also think you may be underestimating the fact that the decks she's slotting into are already geared toward beating aggro, but now they've just gained another win-con, one that can win out of nowhere, which is a void that was left with the Twin banning. The Tron matchup you may be right, but counterspells are very good in that matchup.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I meant coco.
The thing is... "winning out of no where" is a stretch. Not in a format dedicated by cheap, effective beats and lightning bolt.
As a Grixis player... I don't think I'd fear a resolved Nahiri. If I can't kill it... chances are I was not winning anyways even if they had drawn a snapcaster instead...
The only deck that can actually "win out of no where" is coco.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I actually like that Nahiri doesn't just "win out of nowhere." It feels like a good control threat: stabilize, take control of the game, and if you can protect your threat, you WILL win. I think nahiri actually hits the sweet spot of "not oppressive" because you get 3 turns to find an out and "not agonizing" because it doesn't take forever to actually win, as well as actually helping the control deck just with the first abilities.
Unlike twin, which was a feel bad because it was really just "oops I win" and unlike controls other finishers, which are either too slow or too easy to kill, personally this feels like the card I have always wanted for modern: a reliable finisher that isn't terrible when you are behind (It can be removal too, or help you find an out).
EDIT: it feels like a slightly better ajani (better in control, not necessarily in general).
Finally someone who gets it. People are playing Nahiri because she is just a great card, not just because of the ult.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I would argue that the "oops I win" factor helped the deck more psychologically than actually "oops I win"-ing. The tempo shell is pretty mediocre and it simply can't reliably win WITHOUT that threat (whether real or implied). It remains to be seen if Nahiri/Emrakul can present enough pressure fast enough or be protected reliably enough to make the deck actually good, but it's the most promising thing so far. I know I will be trying it out, but I'm also waiting for two more copies in the mail.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
In most cases I would rather have Ajani.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Been feeling the opposite since she was spoiled.
But then again I stand by Nahiri being one of the strongest post-board PWs you can dig out, since she's like an anti-SB card, if that makes any sense.
That package will be most effective in decks that already have another game plan, it'll force opponents to make difficult decisions about where to allocate resources and whether to deal with [Insert Deck]'s main strategy or whether to try and get Nahiri off the table to avoid the imminent auto-loss.
This is the main reason I think Chord is the ideal deck for her, Chord already has a combo it can rather reliably build up to, while also doing a fair job of creating value - adding the Nahiri package to that just adds a parallel threat while her +/- abilities are also very synergistic with Chord in general. I doubt she'll end up being a PW that'll have to get played in every deck running the colors, though.
So far I like her better in a deck with blockers than a deck trying to control the board with removal and sweepers.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I agree with this. There's no feeling like sitting behind Wall of Omens and Wall of Roots with a Nahiri, the Harbinger ticking up. Plus, with Chord of Calling, you don't have to choose between going for the combo or getting the defense piece if Nahiri is ticking up since Nahiri should be all the offense you'll need.
However, I am going to get a better perspective on UWR Nahiri because I am going to be doing 6 rounds of that at my FNM this Friday. Wish me luck!
Lastly, I think Equinox and others get it. Nahiri, the Harbinger is a very powerful Planeswalker.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)What I don't get is how with alarming regularity it's the Planeswalkers most swiftly dismissed during spoiler season that become breakout hits.
I will admit that I personally dismiss them. But when I saw that Nahiri was being played with my favorite creature of all time, I thought I'd give it a try. I haven't seen the negatives yet, but only have played just a bit so far.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
From my past experience, this is a stupid decision given by the the current price tag. But, anyway
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron