The kiki chord player brutally misplayed in game 1 by letting him untap with tron while having Fulminator Mage on the table. I literally turned off the stream. No idea how he's 8-0.
Well he did just play 9 rounds of magic and he's locked for day 2. He could be exhausted mentally and physically. Playing 9 rounds in a row is brutal sometimes.
Also now that this tournament is soooo tron stacked. Can we get rid of the notion that this deck isn't tier 1? It's the real deal.
It has been tier 1 on this site I think ever since the first metagame assessment post eye ban. The deck has so much land destruction and board vlears. It is only trully a dog to fast vombo which no one is playing. Tron has been getting all its worse matchups dloely banned out of the format for years.
Also now that this tournament is soooo tron stacked. Can we get rid of the notion that this deck isn't tier 1? It's the real deal.
It has been tier 1 on this site I think ever since the first metagame assessment post eye ban. The deck has so much land destruction and board vlears. It is only trully a dog to fast vombo which no one is playing. Tron has been getting all its worse matchups dloely banned out of the format for years.
It has been tier 1 on this site but there has been this strange idea that this deck isn't great on this website as well.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
It's due to Eye of Ugin being banned. People realize that Tron lost an important late game tool. But they fail to realize all of the new tools that Tron has gotten in the past year - Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Worldbreaker, even Sanctum of Ugin, and some other occasional random stuff like Kozilek's Return, which can occasionally be played.
Tron is pretty bad against quick Aggro, but they have tools to beat them and occasionally they just ... draw them. They can get an early Pyroclasm or turn 4 Oblivion Stone with activation and that does pretty well against Aggro. Midrange/Control decks are dogs to Tron and many players don't want to run Combo at a potentially 15 round tournament. I am a Combo player and even I would consider running something "safe" like Jund or Bogles. Outside of Nahiri, the Harbinger into Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn, Tron runs some of the most powerful spells in Modern.
*I'll give some anecdotal evidence that some of you may find funny. I played GR Tron around 2014 vs. Jund. I misplayed terribly during the match, as I was learning as I was playing, and I still absolutely wiped the floor with Jund. Wurmcoil Engine is a hell of a card vs. them. (I should clarify that I didn't misplay in sequencing the land drops to find Tron, but in when to play certain spells and when not to.)
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
It's due to Eye of Ugin being banned. People realize that Tron lost an important late game tool. But they fail to realize all of the new tools that Tron has gotten in the past year - Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Worldbreaker, even Sanctum of Ugin, and some other occasional random stuff like Kozilek's Return, which can occasionally be played.
Tron is pretty bad against quick Aggro, but they have tools to beat them and occasionally they just ... draw them. They can get an early Pyroclasm or turn 4 Oblivion Stone with activation and that does pretty well against Aggro. Midrange/Control decks are dogs to Tron and many players don't want to run Combo at a potentially 15 round tournament. I am a Combo player and even I would consider running something "safe" like Jund or Bogles. Outside of Nahiri, the Harbinger into Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn, Tron runs some of the most powerful spells in Modern.
The sliver matchup vs tron was a perfect display of tron's matchup against aggro decks. Game 1 slivers just got demolished by the perfect draw from tron. Game 2 tron lost since they didn't draw into their clasm effects.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
The sliver matchup vs tron was a perfect display of tron's matchup against aggro decks. Game 1 slivers just got demolished by the perfect draw from tron. Game 2 tron lost since they didn't draw into their clasm effects.
Definitely. Not to mention, Adam Bowman drew a super quick hand against him in game 3. The game 1 draw was pretty slow (I was surprised he kept the hand), so it was kind of a combination of things.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Question: In Bobby Colegroves Chord v. Tron match with three lands and a spellskite, how can he cast Chord of Calling when only two of the lands produce green mana? What am I missing?
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
The issue with the best decks is that people over prepare for them and they tend to be perform worse than the previous big tournament. I'm not surprised at all. Just look at the jund thread, we had guys over preparing for company.
I'm very Dissapointed by rg trons results, either people are still not taking it seriously and forgoing the land hate or aggro is getting hated out, clearing the way for tron and rg titanshift to maul the fair decks. I despise tron, every deck I always want to play has a weakness to it, which frustrates me.
Affinity has really fallen off the wagon, eh? I couldn't watch any of today, at an event and working all day. Dissapointed not to see nahiri break out in big numbers
Tron is preying on all those people playing any form of Nahiri deck, BGx, CoCo, it is a great meta call and it will be as long as people are playing fair magic
Jeskai beats the crap out of affinity/infect, Tron profits, banning Eye was easily the best ban in Modern's history and the people claiming Tron died had no clue, as many of us suspected, Tron will probably be T1 unless people completely drop CoCo and their fair Nahiri/ AV decks
Actually it's kind of liberating to think that Tron will actually represent a larger share of the meta game. It means I can play 3-4 Crumble to Dust in the sideboard and have a clear conscious about it.
Question: In Bobby Colegroves Chord v. Tron match with three lands and a spellskite, how can he cast Chord of Calling when only two of the lands produce green mana? What am I missing?
If what you're explaining is true then he shouldn't have been able to cast the Chord.
Is the day one broadcast available somewhere to view besides SCG's stream review? That gives me 2 seconds of video and 30 seconds of lag. Is it posted anywhere else?
Everyone knows what this post is going to say: it's too early to make conclusion about this tournament, let alone the format as a whole, with the extremely limited SCGIndy data we have. A huge reason for that is the so-called Day 2 effect. Decks that make it to Day 2 may do very poorly en route to the Top 32 because of new matches. For instance, maybe you stomp Abzan Company on Day 1 with your Tron deck, over-representing Tron in the initial Day 2 standings. But then you get crushed by all the people who prepared for Tron that you dodged on Day 1 by virtue of a larger field and more randomized matches against more fringe decks. The end result could be a deck with great Day 2 stats getting beaten up before it makes Top 32.
I'm going to keep harping on the "wait and see" mentality because its absence is one of the worst qualities of contemporary Magic, especially in Modern. A prime example of this was the furious outcry by Tron players who claimed their deck was banned and no longer viable because of Eye. Another prime example were the bad metagame and card analysts who assumed Sword's unban would destroy the format and get rid of aggro. The exact opposite predictions have come true so far, and even though the defining GP Weekend hasn't happened yet, it's unlikely these conditions will change too much.
We need to be more conservative and measured in our assessments of formats. It's one thing for clickbaity pros to be so hyperbolic; they have to get their articles read. On forums, we don't have that demand and should be able to have a more level-headed discussion about all this.
Are any of the top performing decks that could logically be expected to run AV actually running it?
I know Ryan is running 3-4 in his sideboard. Grixis Delver doesn't really need them in Game 1 in many matchups, but they are excellent in G2-G3 in the grindier matchups.
Are any of the top performing decks that could logically be expected to run AV actually running it?
I know Ryan is running 3-4 in his sideboard. Grixis Delver doesn't really need them in Game 1 in many matchups, but they are excellent in G2-G3 in the grindier matchups.
From the coverage I've seen there have been zero quick kills in feature matches. I know that's a tiny percentage of the field but are players at SCG tournaments historically more conservative at changing cards? I remember Eldrazi wasn't very well represented at SCG until after the Pro Tour.
Everyone knows what this post is going to say: it's too early to make conclusion about this tournament, let alone the format as a whole, with the extremely limited SCGIndy data we have. A huge reason for that is the so-called Day 2 effect. Decks that make it to Day 2 may do very poorly en route to the Top 32 because of new matches. For instance, maybe you stomp Abzan Company on Day 1 with your Tron deck, over-representing Tron in the initial Day 2 standings. But then you get crushed by all the people who prepared for Tron that you dodged on Day 1 by virtue of a larger field and more randomized matches against more fringe decks. The end result could be a deck with great Day 2 stats getting beaten up before it makes Top 32.
I'm going to keep harping on the "wait and see" mentality because its absence is one of the worst qualities of contemporary Magic, especially in Modern. A prime example of this was the furious outcry by Tron players who claimed their deck was banned and no longer viable because of Eye. Another prime example were the bad metagame and card analysts who assumed Sword's unban would destroy the format and get rid of aggro. The exact opposite predictions have come true so far, and even though the defining GP Weekend hasn't happened yet, it's unlikely these conditions will change too much.
We need to be more conservative and measured in our assessments of formats. It's one thing for clickbaity pros to be so hyperbolic; they have to get their articles read. On forums, we don't have that demand and should be able to have a more level-headed discussion about all this.
I agree with you but with 2 SCG Opens and a whole bunch of those SCG States tournaments, is that not a very high sample size of data to work with?
I believe that we can reasonably say the format is looking very healthy just based on these results. Definitely will be more clear after GP weekend though.
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Current Modern decks BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam UB Reanimator
The Elves player is being pretty dodgy and not differentiating between his exiled cards and his graveyard, which cost his opponent the ability to kill some stuff with Displacer + Wasteland Strangler
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
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he did that again in game two, two turns in a row
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
The pox deck needs 1-2 to the slaughter and NOT hero's downfall. To the slaughter's delirium will be online a lot in bw pox.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
It has been tier 1 on this site I think ever since the first metagame assessment post eye ban. The deck has so much land destruction and board vlears. It is only trully a dog to fast vombo which no one is playing. Tron has been getting all its worse matchups dloely banned out of the format for years.
It has been tier 1 on this site but there has been this strange idea that this deck isn't great on this website as well.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Tron is pretty bad against quick Aggro, but they have tools to beat them and occasionally they just ... draw them. They can get an early Pyroclasm or turn 4 Oblivion Stone with activation and that does pretty well against Aggro. Midrange/Control decks are dogs to Tron and many players don't want to run Combo at a potentially 15 round tournament. I am a Combo player and even I would consider running something "safe" like Jund or Bogles. Outside of Nahiri, the Harbinger into Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn, Tron runs some of the most powerful spells in Modern.
*I'll give some anecdotal evidence that some of you may find funny. I played GR Tron around 2014 vs. Jund. I misplayed terribly during the match, as I was learning as I was playing, and I still absolutely wiped the floor with Jund. Wurmcoil Engine is a hell of a card vs. them. (I should clarify that I didn't misplay in sequencing the land drops to find Tron, but in when to play certain spells and when not to.)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)The sliver matchup vs tron was a perfect display of tron's matchup against aggro decks. Game 1 slivers just got demolished by the perfect draw from tron. Game 2 tron lost since they didn't draw into their clasm effects.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Definitely. Not to mention, Adam Bowman drew a super quick hand against him in game 3. The game 1 draw was pretty slow (I was surprised he kept the hand), so it was kind of a combination of things.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Tian 27 RG Tron
Overturf 24 Grixis Delver
Baugh 24 Jund
Colegrove 24 Kiki Chord
Bowman 24 Slivers
Ingram 24 Jeskai Control
Stevens 21 Bant Eldrazi
Elenbogen 21 RG Valakut
Wright 21 RG Tron
Lossett 21 RG Tron
Lutes 21 Jund
McVety 21 RG Valakut
Ferguson 21 BW Smallpox
Hagen 21 (RG?) Tron
Lots of red-green ramp decks. Tron is most certainly not dead after the Eye ban, and surprisingly even Eldrazi shows signs of life.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I'm very Dissapointed by rg trons results, either people are still not taking it seriously and forgoing the land hate or aggro is getting hated out, clearing the way for tron and rg titanshift to maul the fair decks. I despise tron, every deck I always want to play has a weakness to it, which frustrates me.
Affinity has really fallen off the wagon, eh? I couldn't watch any of today, at an event and working all day. Dissapointed not to see nahiri break out in big numbers
Actually it's kind of liberating to think that Tron will actually represent a larger share of the meta game. It means I can play 3-4 Crumble to Dust in the sideboard and have a clear conscious about it.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I'm going to keep harping on the "wait and see" mentality because its absence is one of the worst qualities of contemporary Magic, especially in Modern. A prime example of this was the furious outcry by Tron players who claimed their deck was banned and no longer viable because of Eye. Another prime example were the bad metagame and card analysts who assumed Sword's unban would destroy the format and get rid of aggro. The exact opposite predictions have come true so far, and even though the defining GP Weekend hasn't happened yet, it's unlikely these conditions will change too much.
We need to be more conservative and measured in our assessments of formats. It's one thing for clickbaity pros to be so hyperbolic; they have to get their articles read. On forums, we don't have that demand and should be able to have a more level-headed discussion about all this.
It's typically around Round 12, if past SCG Opens are any indication.
I know Ryan is running 3-4 in his sideboard. Grixis Delver doesn't really need them in Game 1 in many matchups, but they are excellent in G2-G3 in the grindier matchups.
From the coverage I've seen there have been zero quick kills in feature matches. I know that's a tiny percentage of the field but are players at SCG tournaments historically more conservative at changing cards? I remember Eldrazi wasn't very well represented at SCG until after the Pro Tour.
I agree with you but with 2 SCG Opens and a whole bunch of those SCG States tournaments, is that not a very high sample size of data to work with?
I believe that we can reasonably say the format is looking very healthy just based on these results. Definitely will be more clear after GP weekend though.
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/3767_day_2_metagame_breakdown_.html
Most common deck? RG TRON.
2 RG Eldrazi, 2 Eldrazi & Taxes, 1 Bant Eldrazi.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
The Elves player is being pretty dodgy and not differentiating between his exiled cards and his graveyard, which cost his opponent the ability to kill some stuff with Displacer + Wasteland Strangler