The new thalia is only good with vial set to 3. This allows you to do messed up things such as vial her in when they cast a creature/crack a fetch.
Agree that Vialed Thalia is great, but not sure that's enough upside. That's a pretty late drop, especially if you're on the draw, and most opponents will have a well-established board presence by then. I actually like her much more with dorks; turn two Thalia on the play is a BRUTAL tempo line that needs to be immediately answered.
Also, I like that Eiganjo Castle saves her from Bolt. Maybe this is an excuse for me to bust out those Shining Shoals? Turn one Hierarch into turn two Thalia with Shoal backup seems zesty (but also breaks my rule about only looking at tiered Modern decks for new cards).
I think she has potential for sure but without testing it'll be hard to know in what capacity. She might make a decent sideboard card instead of mainboard.
The new thalia is only good with vial set to 3. This allows you to do messed up things such as vial her in when they cast a creature/crack a fetch.
Agree that Vialed Thalia is great, but not sure that's enough upside. That's a pretty late drop, especially if you're on the draw, and most opponents will have a well-established board presence by then. I actually like her much more with dorks; turn two Thalia on the play is a BRUTAL tempo line that needs to be immediately answered.
Also, I like that Eiganjo Castle saves her from Bolt. Maybe this is an excuse for me to bust out those Shining Shoals? Turn one Hierarch into turn two Thalia with Shoal backup seems zesty (but also breaks my rule about only looking at tiered Modern decks for new cards).
New Thalia does work well with Noble Hierarch. It may slot nicely in Kiki Chord since that deck has a horrible valakut matchup. It makes it better since they can land it turn 2 which would slow down valakut/tron enough for them to get beat downs.
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I, for once wish Thalia's CMC was WW with a 2/2 body. Just like Sin Prodder they are mistaking this card for a 3cmc while in fact sould have been 2cmc but with double color. Just like Eidolon of the Great Revel and Kor Firewalker.
Someone would argue that Prodder being 2cmc would mean multiple of them recking your opponent relatively quickly but here this is not the case. She is a legendary creature to make up for it.
Anyway, aside from D&T and hatebears no real decks are gonna use her.
I, for once wish Thalia's CMC was WW with a 2/2 body. Just like Sin Prodder they are mistaking this card for a 3cmc while in fact sould have been 2cmc but with double color. Just like Eidolon of the Great Revel and Kor Firewalker.
Someone would argue that Prodder being 2cmc would mean multiple of them recking your opponent relatively quickly but here this is not the case. She is a legendary creature to make up for it.
Anyway, aside from D&T and hatebears no real decks are gonna use her.
I sort of agree with you but if they made her 2/2 she'd be pretty unplayable in Standard. Her getting past Sylvan Advocate til they get to 6 lands is a pretty big deal. I don't mind her at 3 as much because in Eldrazi & Taxes.. 3 is typically where I leave Vial anyway (so you can drop Strangler, Flickerwisp and Displacer).
Thalia dies to bolt. So what? A lot of creatures die to bolt. You won't always play against bolt decks and besides, they can't bolt everything. At this point, D&T is reaching the critical mass of cards it needs to be good (not sure if it's there yet - this is def a Legacy staple but for Modern we'll see) and this is one more piece of that puzzle. Stop underestimating it for Modern. Even though it's vulnerable, it must be dealt with or, just like Confidant, you run away with the game (most likely). It completely shuts down certain decks and is at least decent against many others. I would definitely play somewhere between 2 and 4 of these in D&T in both Modern and Legacy.
Thalia dies to bolt. So what? A lot of creatures die to bolt. You won't always play against bolt decks and besides, they can't bolt everything. At this point, D&T is reaching the critical mass of cards it needs to be good (not sure if it's there yet - this is def a Legacy staple but for Modern we'll see) and this is one more piece of that puzzle. Stop underestimating it for Modern. Even though it's vulnerable, it must be dealt with or, just like Confidant, you run away with the game (most likely). It completely shuts down certain decks and is at least decent against many others. I would definitely play somewhere between 2 and 4 of these in D&T in both Modern and Legacy.
As I said before, we need to remember that "Dies to Bolt" is not the playability test or standard. The test is:
1. Does the card die to Bolt at parity? If not, what's the resource difference?
2. Does this card have an immediate impact whether or not it dies to Bolt? If so, is the impact consistent and worth it?
3. Does this card take over the game if not Bolted immediately? If so, how reliable and decisive is that effect?
Thalia 2.0 fails at 1 and 2. She's three mana and dies to one-mana Bolt. She has no immediate impact unless Vialed in response to a creature or fetch activation. That's not a good start for the card.
On 3, Thalia does take over a game in certain matchups, but not in all matchups. There are too many top-tier decks which don't care about her effect. Those decks which do care help her playability, but it's probably not enough to outweigh her failures in categories 1 and 2, nor to outweigh her low impact against the other decks. This might make her solid sideboard material at some point, but I'm not seeing it otherwise.
The only line I'm interested in with Thalia is resolving her on T2 with a dork. As a "two-drop," she's significantly better because her effect is much more likely to take over the game the earlier it's online.
Hainwier looks interesting. Having essentially 13 power with trample and haste looks to be a good finisher. It's most likely going to be flipped from a land, and all that remains to be seen is how easy it is to flip.
Hainwier looks interesting. Having essentially 13 power with trample and haste looks to be a good finisher. It's most likely going to be flipped from a land, and all that remains to be seen is how easy it is to flip.
You're jumping to conclusions! If that were true then the collectors number on it would mean that there are ~75 lands in the set or something which I think we can rule out as not the case. It is highly likely that it will be green with a possibility that it is red by comparing the collectors number to that of Oath.
Recent revelations have shown that Eldrazi are getting in on the DFC action, backside of one card is apparently:
>Hanweir, the Writhing Township
>Legendary Creature - Eldrazi Ooze
>Trample, Haste, When ~ attacks put two 3/2 colorless Eldrazi Horror tokens onto the battlefield tapped and attacking
>7/4
Looks good. Hmm, of course a monster as strong as that surely requires the player to do something not easily done to get whatever it is to flip. I hope the flip card would be a land, so it's at least easier to add into a deck.
New Thalia seems pretty strong, but she's much better in Legacy DnT than any sort of modern form of that deck. Without the ability to easily mana denial she's not nearly as good.
There's lots of fun tricks with her and Flickerwisp though. Pretty sure if you flickerwisp a land at their endstep with her in play you get two turns worth of mana denial out of it, which is neat. Nice Tempo swing for you as well.
Edit: I got it mostly right, you want to flickerwisp their land at *your* End step. That way it comes back tapped at their end step which basically gives you two mana denial turns.
New Thalia seems pretty strong, but she's much better in Legacy DnT than any sort of modern form of that deck. Without the ability to easily mana denial she's not nearly as good.
There's lots of fun tricks with her and Flickerwisp though. Pretty sure if you flickerwisp a land at their endstep with her in play you get two turns worth of mana denial out of it, which is neat. Nice Tempo swing for you as well.
I mean sure but if I am flickering lands it likely means I have a Strangler and I am just eating that land to kill one of their other creatures. (or give my TKS -3/-3 in the worst case).
As an elves player I'm evaluating her based on the following:
On the other side of the table:
She slows down mana production from lands which rarely if ever impacts me post t3. She throws a wrench into my heritage Druid chains post t3. This is annoying but not game breaking for me. She screws with my t2-4 small beats to position decks into drain range off of shaman of the pack because of first strike. I think she's about as annoying as her first version just in a different way. I'm not dead in the water to this card.
On my side of the table(sideboard chord target): if I'm chording for X=3 I want a kill, not a nuisance. However ramping into her t2 wouldn't be incredibly hard if I tweak my mana to allow it and I can company into her. Playing her t2-3 against various combo decks would be very beneficial to allow me time to position the game to a win.
That being said I think she's good. She bends the game state but doesn't straight wreck it like something along the lines of choke. She's a fun magic card and has me thinking of testing her out. That's about the right power level I want to see from a new card. As for her dying to bolt, I'm pretty okay with it because she's honestly a supporting character...just like the original Thalia. There will be other creatures next to her doing the heavy lifting imo. I'm okay with that generally as if my opponent doesn't bolt her the turn I drop her, they are taking mana and cards to slow me down and hopefully they remember to drop their land after she's dead. She's not going to trade at parity hardly because the format is just full of efficient removal. She swings into a ton of board states with a noble heirarch on t1 though. Which is a huge plus for me.
Very fake. Ultimate templating is wrong: see Rest in Peace.
That and fifty zombies was overpowered, this isn't Naruto with Shadow Clones. You need Kiki Jiki for Naruto, not Liliana. If Nahiri stacked within for Emrakul, then we can expect Liliana to be the foil for Nahiri. Whatever that means.
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Hainwier looks interesting. Having essentially 13 power with trample and haste looks to be a good finisher. It's most likely going to be flipped from a land, and all that remains to be seen is how easy it is to flip.
You're jumping to conclusions! If that were true then the collectors number on it would mean that there are ~75 lands in the set or something which I think we can rule out as not the case. It is highly likely that it will be green with a possibility that it is red by comparing the collectors number to that of Oath.
Hanweir falls pretty squarely in the middle of the red section according to the EMN number crunch thread
New card reveals a new mechanic called meld, which apparently asks you to exile two specific creatures to morph them into one creature. I've only seen 1 card and it's at common but im calling meld as likely unplayable in modern.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
New card reveals a new mechanic called meld, which apparently asks you to exile two specific creatures to morph them into one creature. I've only seen 1 card and it's at common but im calling meld as likely unplayable in modern.
it honestly doesn't even sound playable in standard. Who would want to 2 for 1 themselves? Unless it has something like if it gets killed it unmelds and you get back both creatures in play. but i doubt it. ANd I'm now guessing that's how Hainwier is going to work.
Blessed Alliance - 1W
Uncommon
Instant
Escalate (2)
Choose one or more
- Target Player gains 4 life
- Untap up to two target creatures
- Target opponent sacrifices an attacking creature
This card reminds me of nimble mongoose. I don't know if it's playable but it's easier to get to a 3/3 so there is that. (although everything under the sun kills it)
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en_PQtY6WenXl
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Blessed Alliance - 1W
Uncommon
Instant
Escalate (2)
Choose one or more
- Target Player gains 4 life
- Untap up to two target creatures
- Target opponent sacrifices an attacking creature
How about this card?
Seems good in the sideboard. Celestial flare already sees play in the sideboard because it hits geists/other hexproof creatures.
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Well this is a thing. Not playable in this format but it's cute.
Bruna is playable in reanimator sets. You reanimate her, bring back a different angel like Iona, and effectively won the game, it might be win more, but I'm sure there's some other angel or human that can lock things out. Probably better in Legacy, but who knows. someone might make an Unburial Rites and Goryo's Vengence deck
Well this is a thing. Not playable in this format but it's cute.
Bruna is playable in reanimator sets. You reanimate her, bring back a different angel like Iona, and effectively won the game, it might be win more, but I'm sure there's some other angel or human that can lock things out. Probably better in Legacy, but who knows. someone might make an Unburial Rites and Goryo's Vengence deck
Bruna won't work with either, she's got a cast trigger.
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Vorthos-y Johnny. All will be One
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
I think she has potential for sure but without testing it'll be hard to know in what capacity. She might make a decent sideboard card instead of mainboard.
New Thalia does work well with Noble Hierarch. It may slot nicely in Kiki Chord since that deck has a horrible valakut matchup. It makes it better since they can land it turn 2 which would slow down valakut/tron enough for them to get beat downs.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Someone would argue that Prodder being 2cmc would mean multiple of them recking your opponent relatively quickly but here this is not the case. She is a legendary creature to make up for it.
Anyway, aside from D&T and hatebears no real decks are gonna use her.
Ordinarily she fails the bolt test but with Vial she passes it.
I sort of agree with you but if they made her 2/2 she'd be pretty unplayable in Standard. Her getting past Sylvan Advocate til they get to 6 lands is a pretty big deal. I don't mind her at 3 as much because in Eldrazi & Taxes.. 3 is typically where I leave Vial anyway (so you can drop Strangler, Flickerwisp and Displacer).
As I said before, we need to remember that "Dies to Bolt" is not the playability test or standard. The test is:
1. Does the card die to Bolt at parity? If not, what's the resource difference?
2. Does this card have an immediate impact whether or not it dies to Bolt? If so, is the impact consistent and worth it?
3. Does this card take over the game if not Bolted immediately? If so, how reliable and decisive is that effect?
Thalia 2.0 fails at 1 and 2. She's three mana and dies to one-mana Bolt. She has no immediate impact unless Vialed in response to a creature or fetch activation. That's not a good start for the card.
On 3, Thalia does take over a game in certain matchups, but not in all matchups. There are too many top-tier decks which don't care about her effect. Those decks which do care help her playability, but it's probably not enough to outweigh her failures in categories 1 and 2, nor to outweigh her low impact against the other decks. This might make her solid sideboard material at some point, but I'm not seeing it otherwise.
The only line I'm interested in with Thalia is resolving her on T2 with a dork. As a "two-drop," she's significantly better because her effect is much more likely to take over the game the earlier it's online.
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My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Looks good. Hmm, of course a monster as strong as that surely requires the player to do something not easily done to get whatever it is to flip. I hope the flip card would be a land, so it's at least easier to add into a deck.
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There's lots of fun tricks with her and Flickerwisp though. Pretty sure if you flickerwisp a land at their endstep with her in play you get two turns worth of mana denial out of it, which is neat. Nice Tempo swing for you as well.
Edit: I got it mostly right, you want to flickerwisp their land at *your* End step. That way it comes back tapped at their end step which basically gives you two mana denial turns.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
I mean sure but if I am flickering lands it likely means I have a Strangler and I am just eating that land to kill one of their other creatures. (or give my TKS -3/-3 in the worst case).
On the other side of the table:
She slows down mana production from lands which rarely if ever impacts me post t3. She throws a wrench into my heritage Druid chains post t3. This is annoying but not game breaking for me. She screws with my t2-4 small beats to position decks into drain range off of shaman of the pack because of first strike. I think she's about as annoying as her first version just in a different way. I'm not dead in the water to this card.
On my side of the table(sideboard chord target): if I'm chording for X=3 I want a kill, not a nuisance. However ramping into her t2 wouldn't be incredibly hard if I tweak my mana to allow it and I can company into her. Playing her t2-3 against various combo decks would be very beneficial to allow me time to position the game to a win.
That being said I think she's good. She bends the game state but doesn't straight wreck it like something along the lines of choke. She's a fun magic card and has me thinking of testing her out. That's about the right power level I want to see from a new card. As for her dying to bolt, I'm pretty okay with it because she's honestly a supporting character...just like the original Thalia. There will be other creatures next to her doing the heavy lifting imo. I'm okay with that generally as if my opponent doesn't bolt her the turn I drop her, they are taking mana and cards to slow me down and hopefully they remember to drop their land after she's dead. She's not going to trade at parity hardly because the format is just full of efficient removal. She swings into a ton of board states with a noble heirarch on t1 though. Which is a huge plus for me.
That and fifty zombies was overpowered, this isn't Naruto with Shadow Clones. You need Kiki Jiki for Naruto, not Liliana. If Nahiri stacked within for Emrakul, then we can expect Liliana to be the foil for Nahiri. Whatever that means.
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
Hanweir falls pretty squarely in the middle of the red section according to the EMN number crunch thread
But yeah, it's definitely not a land.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
it honestly doesn't even sound playable in standard. Who would want to 2 for 1 themselves? Unless it has something like if it gets killed it unmelds and you get back both creatures in play. but i doubt it. ANd I'm now guessing that's how Hainwier is going to work.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
How about this card?
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Seems good in the sideboard. Celestial flare already sees play in the sideboard because it hits geists/other hexproof creatures.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Bruna is playable in reanimator sets. You reanimate her, bring back a different angel like Iona, and effectively won the game, it might be win more, but I'm sure there's some other angel or human that can lock things out. Probably better in Legacy, but who knows. someone might make an Unburial Rites and Goryo's Vengence deck
Bruna won't work with either, she's got a cast trigger.
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.