I really hope we never see cards like thought-knot seer/smasher again tbh. These cards: violate color pool, are too aggressively costed, and are too aggressively pushed. I know wizards likes to push cards but those cards are the grossest examples of power creep I have ever seen. I'm more okay with cards like drowner of hope/worldbreaker because they require a mana investment both with cost and they cost specific colors.
How does a colorless-requiring creature violate the color pie when there was no space for those specific creatures before? Personally, I think the colored mana-requiring colorless Eldrazi are much dumber and harder to justify from a flavor standpoint.
The fact that any color can have a creature that has hand disruption(BW), a sorcery counterspell(U), a creature that has haste and makes it hard to kill (RG colors). These creature have multicolor effects but they are colorless. A colorless counterspell is when I realized how bad the design from Battle for zendikar was. I'm assuming that the eldrazi angel thing will be a mythic. Hopefully innistrad actually focuses on horror and doesn't shove too much eldrazi down our throats. Hopefully emerkul dies so the eldrazi aren't talked about for atleast 5 years. Such dull and uninteresting characters/cards.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
We definitely don't need more Eldrazi in Modern. It's enough of them. I still didn't fully recover from Eldrazi winter and complete nonsense that deck caused. No more Eye of Ugin helps with that but this doesn't mean Eldrazi are welcome.
On one hand, this.
On the other hand, lorewise I'm all for it.
Besides it looks like Emrakul got hit with the flavor stick hard enough that she isn't pure value from a gameplay perspective; giving the opponent an extra turn to come to their senses after becoming part of Emrakul's manifestation seems sufficiently flavor over function to keep her from being relevant in Modern and beyond.
At least, I hope that's the case.
Card evaluation is something that everyone has problems with at one point or another.
Hmm. Do Mono Blue Tron, UW Tron, and/or Bant/Ux Eldrazi want this? Blue Tron is already playing Treasure Mage on turn three into an artifact, and although the 2/2 body is nice, any Eldrazi seems better than just 6+ mana artifact.
Good card is good, but I'm much more interested in the implications of even more (possibly cheap) Eldrazi coming into Modern.
I am particularly interested in this point for EldraziTron - if we get a few more cards like TKS or Reality Smasher we might be able to hit critical mass on our lower cost threats. The other issues with the deck is the lack of options for colourless spells; more Eldrazi Spells (so we could tap Temple for them) would be amazing. Like All is Dust but lower cost version of typed removal. Spatial/Warping Wail suffer from not being typed.
Edit: I certainly hope that the horror-fused angelthing turns into an amusing 6-8 drop. It would give me such glee to drop it on people.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Good card is good, but I'm much more interested in the implications of even more (possibly cheap) Eldrazi coming into Modern.
I am particularly interested in this point for EldraziTron - if we get a few more cards like TKS or Reality Smasher we might be able to hit critical mass on our lower cost threats. The other issues with the deck is the lack of options for colourless spells; more Eldrazi Spells (so we could tap Temple for them) would be amazing. Like All is Dust but lower cost version of typed removal. Spatial/Warping Wail suffer from not being typed.
Edit: I certainly hope that the horror-fused angelthing turns into an amusing 6-8 drop. It would give me such glee to drop it on people.
Good card is good, but I'm much more interested in the implications of even more (possibly cheap) Eldrazi coming into Modern.
Maybe they could print the W eldrazi that they were not able to print in BFZ and Oath?
I saw somewhere that there were more devoid white Eldrazi planned, but they were not able to print those for some reason...
Hmm. Do Mono Blue Tron, UW Tron, and/or Bant/Ux Eldrazi want this? Blue Tron is already playing Treasure Mage on turn three into an artifact, and although the 2/2 body is nice, any Eldrazi seems better than just 6+ mana artifact.
Re: new emrakul - not something I ever want to cheat out compared to old emrakul or griselbrand. As suggested, it might be an interesting alternative to newlamog in tron but I doubt it personally. Not a tron player so not sure that a mindslaver effect is better than double exile (and usually double exile a turn earlier).
Re: Werewolf. EDH commander is EDH commander.
Re: Tutor. Maybe in U tron if they want to stick a copy of all is dust and a win con in the board, but I would be pretty surprised if that was a winning play over just putting your sweepers and win condition in the maindeck and then using your board for better hate cards. I don't think the ability to fetch cradle swap or nameless inversion is going to be relevant - nor the cheaper eldrazis as a wishboard.
And this is someone who tries regularly to ramp out glittering wish bullets. Eldrazi is an even smaller subset of targets than multicolor, and the tutor costs more mana. Very unlikely that its worth the trouble.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Idk, ulamog can just hit lands which is huge, always will come down t4 with tron + tower which is huge. Pretty debatable which is better
Following from this, I will say I think Emrakul's biggest problem would not be her Mindslaver effect (its expected value feels higher than Ulamog's in most situations), but rather her casting cost. 11 mana and 10 mana are worlds apart, because T4 vs. T5 is huge. Lossett's Bolt build can get this down to 10, but it's not consistent. Tron already moved away from old Emrakul because she was uncastable early, so for the new one to be playable, she needs to reliably land on T4-T5. Not sure if that's doable.
Blue Tron uses the graveyard and pitches more card types than RG Tron and plays a slower game. However, with Kaladesh I expect that Blue Tron will evolve more into an artifact based control deck along with Tezzerator to also change as a deck.
I feel that Emrakul will be tested out in specific decks, but current configurations will change. She will show some value, but the deck lists will be altered to meet her. I feel for Tron's future, the real changes are going to come from Kaladesh. If Mark Rosewater has some weird mechanic, we may see a new artifact deck rise that can conjoin with the Eldrazi Menace.
The larger question is whether we will have some Eldrazi's that will be able to go into Bant Eldrazi as a part of her brood.
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Life is a beautiful engineer, yet a brutal scientist.
Did some testing last night for new Emrakul and Coax.
In RG Tron, Emrakul was basically always 11 mana, with a few times where she was 10. Relevant: you can Bolt and Emrakul in the same turn, and you expend the same amount of mana as if you had just played Emrakul. She typically hit play on turn 5-6 if I saw her at all. Ulamog's average was closer to turn 5, with a few turn 4s to bring it down. Her Mindslaver effect was unsurprisingly very powerful, typically pulling the game out of reach with a 2+ card swing. In those tests, she never whiffed entirely on Mindslaver, only cost the opponent 1 card in one effect, and averaged 3 cards killed in the swing. Remember that if your opponent has a creature, it's typically dead when it attacks into Emrakul, so you're almost always guaranteed one dead creature and one dead card in their hand. Three occurs when you attack with one creature and just Bolt/Terminate/Decay/Path the other. Great card overall and I'll keep testing!
Coax was decent in Tron, where it only costs "2 mana" once Tron is assembled, similar to how Karn doesn't really cost 7 or Ugin doesn't really cost 8 in an Urzatron deck. T4 Coax into T5 Ulamog or Emrakul is very nice for the blue Tron decks. So is T4 Coax into TKS/Smasher. I don't think I'd run it in Bant Eldrazi where it's much slower (unless you can cheat the curve a bit with that T1 dork), but I liked it more in the Tron decks than I liked other three-mana tutors in other decks.
I'm not really a combo player so help me out here please:
How relevant do you think it is that Coax from the Blind Eternities practically lets Through the Breach decks play 7 copies of old Emmy?
Did some testing last night for new Emrakul and Coax.
In RG Tron, Emrakul was basically always 11 mana, with a few times where she was 10. Relevant: you can Bolt and Emrakul in the same turn, and you expend the same amount of mana as if you had just played Emrakul. She typically hit play on turn 5-6 if I saw her at all. Ulamog's average was closer to turn 5, with a few turn 4s to bring it down. Her Mindslaver effect was unsurprisingly very powerful, typically pulling the game out of reach with a 2+ card swing. In those tests, she never whiffed entirely on Mindslaver, only cost the opponent 1 card in one effect, and averaged 3 cards killed in the swing. Remember that if your opponent has a creature, it's typically dead when it attacks into Emrakul, so you're almost always guaranteed one dead creature and one dead card in their hand. Three occurs when you attack with one creature and just Bolt/Terminate/Decay/Path the other. Great card overall and I'll keep testing!
Coax was decent in Tron, where it only costs "2 mana" once Tron is assembled, similar to how Karn doesn't really cost 7 or Ugin doesn't really cost 8 in an Urzatron deck. T4 Coax into T5 Ulamog or Emrakul is very nice for the blue Tron decks. So is T4 Coax into TKS/Smasher. I don't think I'd run it in Bant Eldrazi where it's much slower (unless you can cheat the curve a bit with that T1 dork), but I liked it more in the Tron decks than I liked other three-mana tutors in other decks.
I agree, I think new Emmy is being underestimated and servers a different role than the old one(new Ulamog wasn't well received either, but now it sees play in everything; new Kozilek is really the only one I can say is meh on playability).
Coax is weird, if it costed like UC (which the blurry intro pack pictures hint might be the new costing for Emmy's Eldrazi) then I think the card would have been great, as is though it might be an ok sideboard card in Bant Eldrazi for the long games, but IDK it needs some testing by better Magic players than me.
I'm not really a combo player so help me out here please:
How relevant do you think it is that Coax from the Blind Eternities practically lets Through the Breach decks play 7 copies of old Emmy?
I'm with you all that I am disappointed it's Emrakul. I was hoping for Merit Liege but oh well... My buddy sent me this picture that I am excited about:
Let's just hope they don't kill her and her new card is just as solid.
I would kill for a good 7 drop. Running Deceiver of Form right now as a 1-of but imagine if we could have a colourless threat at 7 that was in-line with World Breaker. Synergy with Sanctum as well; we could hard cast it on T3 with natural tron (or map+tron). Something with a cast trigger or a form of protection; it would give EldraziTron our Wurmcoil Engine that Tron has.
Hmm, I'm actually very surprised that people are immediately trying it in Tron, I mean, yes it's a big dude, but there are a lot of big dudes and winning once you assemble Tron is usually trivial with Karn/Ugin/Newlamog. But that reduction cost? I regularly have 6 types of cards in my Traverse deck ( I don't play enchantments or planeswalkers) and another similar deck could easily be even more focused, playing Seal of Fire and some decent planeswalkers, potentially costing only 5 (I think the biggest Goyf i've ever seen was 8/9 so that must be the limit). This effect is very very powerful at 5 mana.
I'm not saying it's playable, because 5 mana and a whole lot of different cards is quite difficult to achieve even in very focused decks, but the Mindslaver effect is absolutely backbreaking and well worth the effort, plus it provides inevitability. I think this card at 11 mana could actually have been amazingly good, but at least it also indicates that they are really going for the Delirium mechanic, so we may get many more awesome cards for that kind of deck
Hmm, I'm actually very surprised that people are immediately trying it in Tron, I mean, yes it's a big dude, but there are a lot of big dudes and winning once you assemble Tron is usually trivial with Karn/Ugin/Newlamog.
^this, dropping any Titan in Tron is backbreaking, and this is not even the best of them, for that much mana, I would rather play mindslaver itself. I am trying more flexible builds, but Tron doesn't need more win conditions printed, it needs consistency, better land search, relevant early interaction, etc
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
Better than Ulamog...lol. Thats a good one. Your a funny guy.
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
I'm playing UR Possibility storm and this kind of card (Coax) seems valuable for not messing up the process, and serving as possible backup for whatever reason (discard, slaughter games)
I'm with you all that I am disappointed it's Emrakul. I was hoping for Merit Liege but oh well... My buddy sent me this picture that I am excited about:
Let's just hope they don't kill her and her new card is just as solid.
This is a deviant art picture. Its not a new card art.
Huntmaster of the Fells this is not, the card is straight out unplayable. No love for Werewolves, it seems.
The fact that any color can have a creature that has hand disruption(BW), a sorcery counterspell(U), a creature that has haste and makes it hard to kill (RG colors). These creature have multicolor effects but they are colorless. A colorless counterspell is when I realized how bad the design from Battle for zendikar was. I'm assuming that the eldrazi angel thing will be a mythic. Hopefully innistrad actually focuses on horror and doesn't shove too much eldrazi down our throats. Hopefully emerkul dies so the eldrazi aren't talked about for atleast 5 years. Such dull and uninteresting characters/cards.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Straight into edh. Maybe it's decent in standard but it's not for us.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
On one hand, this.
On the other hand, lorewise I'm all for it.
Besides it looks like Emrakul got hit with the flavor stick hard enough that she isn't pure value from a gameplay perspective; giving the opponent an extra turn to come to their senses after becoming part of Emrakul's manifestation seems sufficiently flavor over function to keep her from being relevant in Modern and beyond.
At least, I hope that's the case.
Card evaluation is something that everyone has problems with at one point or another.
How about for 7 so we can tutor it up with Conduit of Ruin.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Would be nice for it to trigger Sanctum of Ugin too.
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
Maybe they could print the W eldrazi that they were not able to print in BFZ and Oath?
I saw somewhere that there were more devoid white Eldrazi planned, but they were not able to print those for some reason...
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I will prob. play it as a one of in u tron with new emmy and Epiphany at the Drownyard just for fun
Ulrich is not there for Modern. He's there so that the set has a legendary Werewolf.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
It also grabs from exile, so good against Path.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Re: Werewolf. EDH commander is EDH commander.
Re: Tutor. Maybe in U tron if they want to stick a copy of all is dust and a win con in the board, but I would be pretty surprised if that was a winning play over just putting your sweepers and win condition in the maindeck and then using your board for better hate cards. I don't think the ability to fetch cradle swap or nameless inversion is going to be relevant - nor the cheaper eldrazis as a wishboard.
And this is someone who tries regularly to ramp out glittering wish bullets. Eldrazi is an even smaller subset of targets than multicolor, and the tutor costs more mana. Very unlikely that its worth the trouble.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Blue Tron uses the graveyard and pitches more card types than RG Tron and plays a slower game. However, with Kaladesh I expect that Blue Tron will evolve more into an artifact based control deck along with Tezzerator to also change as a deck.
I feel that Emrakul will be tested out in specific decks, but current configurations will change. She will show some value, but the deck lists will be altered to meet her. I feel for Tron's future, the real changes are going to come from Kaladesh. If Mark Rosewater has some weird mechanic, we may see a new artifact deck rise that can conjoin with the Eldrazi Menace.
The larger question is whether we will have some Eldrazi's that will be able to go into Bant Eldrazi as a part of her brood.
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
In RG Tron, Emrakul was basically always 11 mana, with a few times where she was 10. Relevant: you can Bolt and Emrakul in the same turn, and you expend the same amount of mana as if you had just played Emrakul. She typically hit play on turn 5-6 if I saw her at all. Ulamog's average was closer to turn 5, with a few turn 4s to bring it down. Her Mindslaver effect was unsurprisingly very powerful, typically pulling the game out of reach with a 2+ card swing. In those tests, she never whiffed entirely on Mindslaver, only cost the opponent 1 card in one effect, and averaged 3 cards killed in the swing. Remember that if your opponent has a creature, it's typically dead when it attacks into Emrakul, so you're almost always guaranteed one dead creature and one dead card in their hand. Three occurs when you attack with one creature and just Bolt/Terminate/Decay/Path the other. Great card overall and I'll keep testing!
Coax was decent in Tron, where it only costs "2 mana" once Tron is assembled, similar to how Karn doesn't really cost 7 or Ugin doesn't really cost 8 in an Urzatron deck. T4 Coax into T5 Ulamog or Emrakul is very nice for the blue Tron decks. So is T4 Coax into TKS/Smasher. I don't think I'd run it in Bant Eldrazi where it's much slower (unless you can cheat the curve a bit with that T1 dork), but I liked it more in the Tron decks than I liked other three-mana tutors in other decks.
How relevant do you think it is that Coax from the Blind Eternities practically lets Through the Breach decks play 7 copies of old Emmy?
I agree, I think new Emmy is being underestimated and servers a different role than the old one(new Ulamog wasn't well received either, but now it sees play in everything; new Kozilek is really the only one I can say is meh on playability).
Coax is weird, if it costed like UC (which the blurry intro pack pictures hint might be the new costing for Emmy's Eldrazi) then I think the card would have been great, as is though it might be an ok sideboard card in Bant Eldrazi for the long games, but IDK it needs some testing by better Magic players than me.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Let's just hope they don't kill her and her new card is just as solid.
I would kill for a good 7 drop. Running Deceiver of Form right now as a 1-of but imagine if we could have a colourless threat at 7 that was in-line with World Breaker. Synergy with Sanctum as well; we could hard cast it on T3 with natural tron (or map+tron). Something with a cast trigger or a form of protection; it would give EldraziTron our Wurmcoil Engine that Tron has.
I'm not saying it's playable, because 5 mana and a whole lot of different cards is quite difficult to achieve even in very focused decks, but the Mindslaver effect is absolutely backbreaking and well worth the effort, plus it provides inevitability. I think this card at 11 mana could actually have been amazingly good, but at least it also indicates that they are really going for the Delirium mechanic, so we may get many more awesome cards for that kind of deck
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
^this, dropping any Titan in Tron is backbreaking, and this is not even the best of them, for that much mana, I would rather play mindslaver itself. I am trying more flexible builds, but Tron doesn't need more win conditions printed, it needs consistency, better land search, relevant early interaction, etc
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
This is a deviant art picture. Its not a new card art.
Edit: 2013 it was made http://merkymerx.deviantart.com/art/Thalia-352895149