Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm not doing it to write you off or something, most of the time I do agree with your evaluations, I just decided I'll join the banter But might as well, gonna post my own list in a little.
I haven't actually posted any evaluations for these last two sets, at least not like most people do, so I'm not making a statement about my own content. I'm just speaking generally to anyone who is evaluating anyone else and their ability to assess (un)playability.
The only evaluations I've made, almost all in MN articles, are as follows:
Emrakul - Playable in RG Tron
Thalia - Maybe playable in Hatebears, Abzan Liege, or another GWx dork deck
Evolution - Playable in one of the many green-based toolbox/tutor decks
Mongrel 2.0 - Playable in at least one deck that will rise to Tier 2
Jury is out on the rest; I always try to test something before I speak on it.
Needs more zombies though...just tossing idea's out there.
I actually think you're onto something. I'm still trying to find a deck for Cryptolith Rite, which I still think is seriously busted and waiting. Here's a nice take on it.
Dump Bridge from Below, Sacrifice Gravecrawler, get back a zombie, tap the zombie to bring back Gravecrawler to sacrifice him again. Tap Viscera Seer, and then bring back Gravecrawler, and get another zombie, and sacrifice him again and get another zombie. On turn 2 you get 6 power in theory. Then turn 3, you'll get 3 lands + 3 zombies + 1 viscera seer = 10 zombies, and it exponentially increases over and over until feel you have enough to smash them. You can probably toss in a Blood Artist or a Mortician Beetle to get around Bridges, make Burn waste spells, or make a huge guy.
Remember, what was once a bad card can suddenly be good again. Take a look at Allosaurus Rider
We already had Sakura-Tribe Elder #5-8 in Viridian Emissary, so this probably won't contribute anything to Modern unless the 0/3 body is more relevant than a 2/1 body for some reason. Still, it's a nice card to have in Standard/Limited.
Slot into existing tier 1/2 Archetypes' 75
Selfless Spirit (Sideboard in D&T, 1-of in the main Abzan Company)
Unsubstantiate (RUG Scapeshift wouldn't mind Remand 5-8. It will also see play in Delver strategies of all types.)
Emrakul, the Promised End (Tron)
Collective Brutality (Sideboard in Jund, Sideboard in Grixis Control)
Eldritch Evolution (Abzan Company wants this. It sucks that you can't chain it with Witnesses, but the reason is that it can search out equal and lower CMC creatures, which makes it fairly useful. It can turn Wall of Roots into Anafenza, Finks, or Viscera Seer basically.)
Slot into existing Tier 3 or lower Archetypes' 75
Haunted Dead (Dredge, as izzetmage said)
Blessed Alliance (UWx control occasionally used Celestial Flare of all things to beat infect and boggles. This is an easier to cast version, with upside.)
Bedlam Reveler (it appears very much to be a 'win harder' card in Burn, though there is potential to see it in a sideboard against heavy discard, but Grixis Delver likes it, with all of the cantrips and discard. Given the support Delver strategies have been getting, I wouldn't be shocked if it pulls solidly into tier 2.)
Liliana the Last Hope (Grixis Delver loves this card, and so does UBx Fairies)
Up and Comers
Spell Queller, Mausoleum Wanderer, Nebelgast Herald (These are the picks for a U/W Spirit tempo build. Spell Queller is the most questionable, since over all it compares poorly with little Venser.)
Whispers of Emrakul, Gnarlwood Dryad, Advanced Stitchwing (These seem to be a solid base to a BUG midrange-control deck with a graveyard focus. It's a build that's always hovered around the edge of playability. Bit of a reach, but maybe. Delirium needs about 5 card types to make it consistant, if you've got a few enablers)
Noose Constrictor, Madness Cards (I'm not really convinced of a madness archetype ever taking hold without Circular Logic or Deep Analysis, but we've finally gotten some real Madness enablers.)
Long Shots
Bloodbriar (Given the number of fetchlands and Ghost Quarters in this format, Eldrazi Spawn, and the Knightfall Combo, this dude gets pretty big. 3CMC though. If any Draft Trash has constructed possibilities, this is the card. BG Loam could support this.)
Tree of Perdition (best/worst combo card ever)
Tamiyo, Field Researcher (Well, now there's finally a reason to build into Bant. I don't think she's strong enough on her own to make a Bant deck work. Maybe a year or two down the line we'll see something crop up with her in it.)
Take Inventory (Storm and Pyromancers Ascension could potentially want these, but I doubt it's any significant upgrade)
I'm NOT implying that you shouldn't do what you're doing, I'm just saying that it's pretty hardcore to publish on the internet a list of 'playable' and 'unplayable' cards from every set. By doing so you're opening yourself up to a great deal of scrutiny.
In case it hasn't been clear all this while, those are my predictions, my opinions. I have never tried to pass them off as fact. I don't know if the word "playable" is too strong for you or something, but if it is, just imagine that I'm saying "this card is a 4.0-5.0" instead of "this card is playable". Are we on the same wavelength now?
I don't mind scrutiny, but I do mind selective representation of facts. I have a hard time believing that you are not taking this personally when you feel compelled to post a list of cards that I got wrong while leaving out the cards that I got right, then following up a few minutes later with more cards that I got wrong and still no mentions of my successes.
With that said, no, I don't have the balls to do that. I'm wrong all the time. We all are. All I was really trying to get at is that I think we (the entire magic community) need to start recognizing just how ridiculously difficult untested card evaluation is.
I fully understand this and have never made any claims to the contrary. I've already mentioned how I see picking cards as similar to picking stocks or teams. I think we can all agree that nobody can pick stocks or teams right every single time - if such a person existed, he can monetize his talents easily. Magic does in fact offer similar opportunities, but I would be drifting off topic if I got into a detailed discussion of them now.
That said, since you do not have the balls to do it, I feel that it is not too much to ask that you show some respect for someone who sticks his neck out and does so. To me it is very simple: if you are not willing to open yourself up to the same criticism as others, then you shouldn't criticize them.
I wanna believe that Mausoleum Wanderer and Spell Queller are enough to make some UW Tempo Spirits a thing, but that deck seems worse than Merfolk on all fronts, only 1 lord that costs 3 as opposed to Merfolk's two lords for 2, and stuff. Though the deck does have Gest of Saint Traft so who knows.
lol, so my playables list is a subset of yours.
Is it safe to assume that you consider all the other cards unplayable (1.0-2.0)?
Slot into existing tier 1/2 Archetypes' 75
Selfless Spirit (Sideboard in D&T, 1-of in the main Abzan Company)
Unsubstantiate (RUG Scapeshift wouldn't mind Remand 5-8. It will also see play in Delver strategies of all types.)
Emrakul, the Promised End (Tron)
Collective Brutality (Sideboard in Jund, Sideboard in Grixis Control)
Eldritch Evolution (Abzan Company wants this. It sucks that you can't chain it with Witnesses, but the reason is that it can search out equal and lower CMC creatures, which makes it fairly useful. It can turn Wall of Roots into Anafenza, Finks, or Viscera Seer basically.)
Slot into existing Tier 3 or lower Archetypes' 75
Haunted Dead (Dredge, as izzetmage said)
Blessed Alliance (UWx control occasionally used Celestial Flare of all things to beat infect and boggles. This is an easier to cast version, with upside.)
Bedlam Reveler (it appears very much to be a 'win harder' card in Burn, though there is potential to see it in a sideboard against heavy discard, but Grixis Delver likes it, with all of the cantrips and discard. Given the support Delver strategies have been getting, I wouldn't be shocked if it pulls solidly into tier 2.)
Liliana the Last Hope (Grixis Delver loves this card, and so does UBx Fairies)
Up and Comers
Spell Queller, Mausoleum Wanderer, Nebelgast Herald (These are the picks for a U/W Spirit tempo build. Spell Queller is the most questionable, since over all it compares poorly with little Venser.)
Whispers of Emrakul, Gnarlwood Dryad, Advanced Stitchwing (These seem to be a solid base to a BUG midrange-control deck with a graveyard focus. It's a build that's always hovered around the edge of playability. Bit of a reach, but maybe. Delirium needs about 5 card types to make it consistant, if you've got a few enablers)
Noose Constrictor, Madness Cards (I'm not really convinced of a madness archetype ever taking hold without Circular Logic or Deep Analysis, but we've finally gotten some real Madness enablers.)
Long Shots
Bloodbriar (Given the number of fetchlands and Ghost Quarters in this format, Eldrazi Spawn, and the Knightfall Combo, this dude gets pretty big. 3CMC though. If any Draft Trash has constructed possibilities, this is the card. BG Loam could support this.)
Tree of Perdition (best/worst combo card ever)
Tamiyo, Field Researcher (Well, now there's finally a reason to build into Bant. I don't think she's strong enough on her own to make a Bant deck work. Maybe a year or two down the line we'll see something crop up with her in it.)
Take Inventory (Storm and Pyromancers Ascension could potentially want these, but I doubt it's any significant upgrade)
Them's my guesses.
I wouldn't call grixis delver a tier 3 deck when it has had great results.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Yeah. Unsubstantiate feels like a card that might pop up in Merfolk, since it's a great tempo card and it answers Supreme Verdict or Abrupt Decay on Vial, but rest of the set looks gimmicky/underwhelming/kitchen table, even for my very generous standards
Come on now, don't be wishy-washy. Playable, unplayable, SB tech; choose 1.
I'm quite surprised to see someone share my opinion that Eldritch Evolution is unplayable. Most people seem to think it's the second coming of Pod. We'll see if it's more Collected Company or Evolutionary Leap.
I'm NOT implying that you shouldn't do what you're doing, I'm just saying that it's pretty hardcore to publish on the internet a list of 'playable' and 'unplayable' cards from every set. By doing so you're opening yourself up to a great deal of scrutiny.
In case it hasn't been clear all this while, those are my predictions, my opinions. I have never tried to pass them off as fact. I don't know if the word "playable" is too strong for you or something, but if it is, just imagine that I'm saying "this card is a 4.0-5.0" instead of "this card is playable". Are we on the same wavelength now?
I don't mind scrutiny, but I do mind selective representation of facts. I have a hard time believing that you are not taking this personally when you feel compelled to post a list of cards that I got wrong while leaving out the cards that I got right, then following up a few minutes later with more cards that I got wrong and still no mentions of my successes.
With that said, no, I don't have the balls to do that. I'm wrong all the time. We all are. All I was really trying to get at is that I think we (the entire magic community) need to start recognizing just how ridiculously difficult untested card evaluation is.
I fully understand this and have never made any claims to the contrary. I've already mentioned how I see picking cards as similar to picking stocks or teams. I think we can all agree that nobody can pick stocks or teams right every single time - if such a person existed, he can monetize his talents easily. Magic does in fact offer similar opportunities, but I would be drifting off topic if I got into a detailed discussion of them now.
That said, since you do not have the balls to do it, I feel that it is not too much to ask that you show some respect for someone who sticks his neck out and does so. To me it is very simple: if you are not willing to open yourself up to the same criticism as others, then you shouldn't criticize them.
Fair points.
I think I've grossly misinterpreted your tone in your posts. Definitely no disrespect was intended at any point. For real. Your posts were coming off to me as cocky and self assured (largely due to your categorizations), and in you explaining your intentions with your lists it looks quite a bit different. Thank you for the explanation.
To get back on track, here's my list of cards I'm excited to try out OR I think can/will make a splash in modern: Selfless Spirit, and really quite a few of the different UW spirits. The deck already felt close, maybe these new ones push it over the top. Sigarda's Aid - Instant equipping is insanellllly powerful.
Thalia Coax from Blind Eternities - U Tron? Imprisoned in the Moon - Blue sideboards Summary Dismissal - Sideboards, veryyyyy powerful effect Unsubstantiate Collective Brutality
New Liliana Haunted Dead Succumb to Temptation seems sweet - don't know how much people want instant speed divination though. Whispers of Emrakul - think this along with some of the others now gives people a reason to look to get delirium, whether it works though is another story. Bedlam Reveler - TC 2.0? We'll find out. Harmless Offering - not yet, but eventually someone will break this. Eldritch Evolution - I think this will make waves, but not break the format. Sorcery speed is pretty brutal but the effect is sooooo powerful. Foul Emissary - Seems sweet. Tons of value. Gnarlwood Dryad - more delirium payoff. Noose Constrictor - can potentially spawn an entire new archetype. Splendid Reclamation - I don't know that the tools are fully in modern to break this in half, but I think this is one of the most powerful cards in recent memory. WILL cause a problem in some format some day. Grim Flayer - More delirium goodness.
Tamiyo - Is probably going to break standard. Hopefully she finds a home some day in modern. Definitely a reason to start considering non-aggro versions of bant but the deck probably still needs a few more things.
Emmy - a home run. I'm ready to embrace my mindslavering overlords. Elder Deep Fiend - I WANT this to find a place in modern but I'm not sure it will. I love Mistbind Clique effects. Eternal Scourge - I think this is the sweetest card in the set. Will this eventually be some sort of modern nether spirit? Maybe. I'm excited to try. Lone Rider - Might get there. If you can reliably flip then the other side is a total house. Docent of Perfection - I'm just excited this exists. Lupine Prototype - Seems breakable, but Myr Superion and many cards like it remain ALMOST there. This looks kind of like that. Nephalia Academy - I'm down for sideboard lands. Seems sweet. Not every deck wants Leyline of Sanctity because of how swingy it is - yet, a turn 1 land that can't produced colored mana is a real downside. Cards like this make for more interesting choices in deck building which is awesome. Geier Reach Sanitarium - if your opponent is hellbent this is all upside.
So, yeah. The set looks sweet. Great flavor. Great potential. EXCEEDINGLY powerful cards all over the place.
Infinite counter-spells? (except abrupt decay)
Or does this just not work they way I think it does?
Sadly, Sigarda only prevents sacrifice effects if your opponent controls them. For instance, if you control Sigarda, you can sac your fetches. Since you control Lunar Force, you can sacrifice it to its own effect.
We already had Sakura-Tribe Elder #5-8 in Viridian Emissary, so this probably won't contribute anything to Modern unless the 0/3 body is more relevant than a 2/1 body for some reason. Still, it's a nice card to have in Standard/Limited.
You know, I took a break from Magic right after that rotated and it totally slipped my mind.
Druid might be better in one of those Assault Formation lists in the Forest Belcher thread, I suppose.
I'm NOT implying that you shouldn't do what you're doing, I'm just saying that it's pretty hardcore to publish on the internet a list of 'playable' and 'unplayable' cards from every set. By doing so you're opening yourself up to a great deal of scrutiny.
In case it hasn't been clear all this while, those are my predictions, my opinions. I have never tried to pass them off as fact. I don't know if the word "playable" is too strong for you or something, but if it is, just imagine that I'm saying "this card is a 4.0-5.0" instead of "this card is playable". Are we on the same wavelength now?
I don't mind scrutiny, but I do mind selective representation of facts. I have a hard time believing that you are not taking this personally when you feel compelled to post a list of cards that I got wrong while leaving out the cards that I got right, then following up a few minutes later with more cards that I got wrong and still no mentions of my successes.
With that said, no, I don't have the balls to do that. I'm wrong all the time. We all are. All I was really trying to get at is that I think we (the entire magic community) need to start recognizing just how ridiculously difficult untested card evaluation is.
I fully understand this and have never made any claims to the contrary. I've already mentioned how I see picking cards as similar to picking stocks or teams. I think we can all agree that nobody can pick stocks or teams right every single time - if such a person existed, he can monetize his talents easily. Magic does in fact offer similar opportunities, but I would be drifting off topic if I got into a detailed discussion of them now.
That said, since you do not have the balls to do it, I feel that it is not too much to ask that you show some respect for someone who sticks his neck out and does so. To me it is very simple: if you are not willing to open yourself up to the same criticism as others, then you shouldn't criticize them.
Fair points.
I think I've grossly misinterpreted your tone in your posts. Definitely no disrespect was intended at any point. For real. Your posts were coming off to me as cocky and self assured (largely due to your categorizations), and in you explaining your intentions with your lists it looks quite a bit different. Thank you for the explanation.
To get back on track, here's my list of cards I'm excited to try out OR I think can/will make a splash in modern: Selfless Spirit, and really quite a few of the different UW spirits. The deck already felt close, maybe these new ones push it over the top. Sigarda's Aid - Instant equipping is insanellllly powerful.
Thalia Coax from Blind Eternities - U Tron? Imprisoned in the Moon - Blue sideboards Summary Dismissal - Sideboards, veryyyyy powerful effect Unsubstantiate Collective Brutality
New Liliana Haunted Dead Succumb to Temptation seems sweet - don't know how much people want instant speed divination though. Whispers of Emrakul - think this along with some of the others now gives people a reason to look to get delirium, whether it works though is another story. Bedlam Reveler - TC 2.0? We'll find out. Harmless Offering - not yet, but eventually someone will break this. Eldritch Evolution - I think this will make waves, but not break the format. Sorcery speed is pretty brutal but the effect is sooooo powerful. Foul Emissary - Seems sweet. Tons of value. Gnarlwood Dryad - more delirium payoff. Noose Constrictor - can potentially spawn an entire new archetype. Splendid Reclamation - I don't know that the tools are fully in modern to break this in half, but I think this is one of the most powerful cards in recent memory. WILL cause a problem in some format some day. Grim Flayer - More delirium goodness.
Tamiyo - Is probably going to break standard. Hopefully she finds a home some day in modern. Definitely a reason to start considering non-aggro versions of bant but the deck probably still needs a few more things.
Emmy - a home run. I'm ready to embrace my mindslavering overlords. Elder Deep Fiend - I WANT this to find a place in modern but I'm not sure it will. I love Mistbind Clique effects. Eternal Scourge - I think this is the sweetest card in the set. Will this eventually be some sort of modern nether spirit? Maybe. I'm excited to try. Lone Rider - Might get there. If you can reliably flip then the other side is a total house. Docent of Perfection - I'm just excited this exists. Lupine Prototype - Seems breakable, but Myr Superion and many cards like it remain ALMOST there. This looks kind of like that. Nephalia Academy - I'm down for sideboard lands. Seems sweet. Not every deck wants Leyline of Sanctity because of how swingy it is - yet, a turn 1 land that can't produced colored mana is a real downside. Cards like this make for more interesting choices in deck building which is awesome. Geier Reach Sanitarium - if your opponent is hellbent this is all upside.
So, yeah. The set looks sweet. Great flavor. Great potential. EXCEEDINGLY powerful cards all over the place.
I agree, someone will break Harmless offering in time. I'm going to pick up a play set just in case. I also picked up some Aggressive Mining I believe this will be in the deck
I think New Lili and New Emrakul are the only 2 cards in the set that have a chance to see sustained Modern play in tier 2 and up.
That said, the BUG color combination is getting a little love. If there's a critical mass there, then maybe Grim Flayer and potentially Whispers of Emrakul if a BUG Thought Scour deck can reliably turn on Delirium. The deck may also be able to use the new Wild Mongrel, so add that with Flayer and Whispers.
The card I like the most is still the dryad. Goes well in my current rug delirium pet deck. Basically it's a more reliable delver that also turns into a removal spell in the late game. The "only" problem is delirium decks tend to fold pretty hard to gy hate.
Other than that, there are a few cards that I think will see light play in Modern, but no format staple or anything like that.
The delirium draw3 for 4cmc is really tempting, but I don't think there's a control deck that can use it. Maybe scapeshift since if plays early tribe elders, but meh.
Btw, some1 has the link to the last set's card evaluation thread? I believe I was the only one talking wonders about Nahiri while everyone else was overrating bad cards.
I'm sure given enough time a lot of cards from this set will see play at some point. I'm starting to think this set is better than my first impression. I don't think Tier 1 decks get a lot but I can see tier 2-3 decks trying out a lot of stuff. Liliana, the last hope has a lot of potential .
I think Bitterblossom is the key to a BUG Delirium deck - fetch thoughtscour hitting one Blossom is potentially the fastest way to delirium in the format for 1 mana and blossom is just a great card. If this enabled turn two Whispers of Emrakul I think you're looking at something that's definitely strong.
I think Bitterblossom is the key to a BUG Delirium deck - fetch thoughtscour hitting one Blossom is potentially the fastest way to delirium in the format for 1 mana and blossom is just a great card. If this enabled turn two Whispers of Emrakul I think you're looking at something that's definitely strong.
I've come to the same conclusion. I've been "scouring" gatherer for low-cost Enchantments that could fit in a low-curve, tempo-ish shell in the BUG colors and have landed on Bitterblossom, Vampiric Link, and Rancor (which obviously sometimes doesn't remain in the graveyard). I searched based on CMC and came to the 2 auras first, and stopped when I landed on Bitterblossom and said to myself, "DUH!"
Curiosity has some decent trigger-stacking synergy with Grim Flayer too, but is likely otherwise unplayable.
I think Bitterblossom is the key to a BUG Delirium deck - fetch thoughtscour hitting one Blossom is potentially the fastest way to delirium in the format for 1 mana and blossom is just a great card. If this enabled turn two Whispers of Emrakul I think you're looking at something that's definitely strong.
I've come to the same conclusion. I've been "scouring" gatherer for low-cost Enchantments that could fit in a low-curve, tempo-ish shell in the BUG colors and have landed on Bitterblossom, Vampiric Link, and Rancor (which obviously sometimes doesn't remain in the graveyard). I searched based on CMC and came to the 2 auras first, and stopped when I landed on Bitterblossom and said to myself, "DUH!"
Curiosity has some decent trigger-stacking synergy with Grim Flayer too, but is likely otherwise unplayable.
I think Bitterblossom is the key to a BUG Delirium deck - fetch thoughtscour hitting one Blossom is potentially the fastest way to delirium in the format for 1 mana and blossom is just a great card. If this enabled turn two Whispers of Emrakul I think you're looking at something that's definitely strong.
I've come to the same conclusion. I've been "scouring" gatherer for low-cost Enchantments that could fit in a low-curve, tempo-ish shell in the BUG colors and have landed on Bitterblossom, Vampiric Link, and Rancor (which obviously sometimes doesn't remain in the graveyard). I searched based on CMC and came to the 2 auras first, and stopped when I landed on Bitterblossom and said to myself, "DUH!"
Curiosity has some decent trigger-stacking synergy with Grim Flayer too, but is likely otherwise unplayable.
Let's start a thread and get a brew going!
Go for it. I'll join in, but I'm not one for starting and maintaining deck threads.
now that the full set is spoiled, I just have to say I'm kinda disappointed. None of the emerge cards look playable.
Sadly I think I've come to the same conclusion. They just aren't quite there.... 10 total, 5 die to Dismember, 2 of which are maybe worth it, and only 3 trade/bump with goyf. Best I can come up with is
T1 Mana dork
T2 Cathodion
T3 Emerge
Neither of which seem vary appealing. There just isn't the payoff for getting that large creature into play the way there is with Tron. And protecting that large creature after all that work is still a chore. Then you still might just die to Burn or Zoo. I think I'd rather just Eldritch Evolution into Phyrexian Obliterator.
Edit: Odds ands ends...
Edit 2: I think I'll just aim to get as many of the Emerge cards into play during the pre-release weekend and be content.
now that the full set is spoiled, I just have to say I'm kinda disappointed. None of the emerge cards look playable.
Sadly I think I've come to the same conclusion. They just aren't quite there.... 10 total, 5 die to Dismember, 2 of which are maybe worth it, and only 3 trade/bump with goyf. Best I can come up with is
T1 Mana dork
T2 Cathodion
T3 Emerge
Neither of which seem vary appealing. There just isn't the payoff for getting that large creature into play the way there is with Tron. And protecting that large creature after all that work is still a chore. Then you still might just die to Burn or Zoo. I think I'd rather just Eldritch Evolution into Phyrexian Obliterator.
Edit: Odds ands ends...
Edit 2: I think I'll just aim to get as many of the Emerge cards into play during the pre-release weekend and be content.
How about:
Turn 1: land, hiearch/bird/eldrazi temple
turn 2: land, play a matter reshaper or skyspawner
turn 3: land, attack w/ reshaper/spawner pass turn, Emerge the octopus to time walk them.
I'm messing around w/ U/G eldrazi tempo playing 2-3 of the octopus and 1-2 of wretched Gryff. Idk if it's better than bant eldrazi but I think the best shell for the emerge cards (of which I think only the octopus may be worth it) is an eldrazi deck
now that the full set is spoiled, I just have to say I'm kinda disappointed. None of the emerge cards look playable.
Sadly I think I've come to the same conclusion. They just aren't quite there.... 10 total, 5 die to Dismember, 2 of which are maybe worth it, and only 3 trade/bump with goyf. Best I can come up with is
T1 Mana dork
T2 Cathodion
T3 Emerge
Neither of which seem vary appealing. There just isn't the payoff for getting that large creature into play the way there is with Tron. And protecting that large creature after all that work is still a chore. Then you still might just die to Burn or Zoo. I think I'd rather just Eldritch Evolution into Phyrexian Obliterator.
Edit: Odds ands ends...
Edit 2: I think I'll just aim to get as many of the Emerge cards into play during the pre-release weekend and be content.
How about:
Turn 1: land, hiearch/bird/eldrazi temple
turn 2: land, play a matter reshaper or skyspawner
turn 3: land, attack w/ reshaper/spawner pass turn, Emerge the octopus to time walk them.
I'm messing around w/ U/G eldrazi tempo playing 2-3 of the octopus and 1-2 of wretched Gryff. Idk if it's better than bant eldrazi but I think the best shell for the emerge cards (of which I think only the octopus may be worth it) is an eldrazi deck
Agreed. A few may slot into the Eldrazi deck as bit of a top end (T3 not with standing.) I was surprised to see a second one with flash. They seem best played in response to a trade or removal and they play so well together. Emerging a creature from an Emerge creature seems fine.
Distended Mindbender seems fine on T3. Seems a high likelihood of hitting 2 cards.
EDIT: 1 of which could be the Dismember that will kill it.....
Basically cross posting what I just said in the Jund thread since no one picked up the discussion the other day.
Dark Salvation actually looks Modern playable to me. I fully recognize that I may just be seeing things but:
It hits any spot on the curve
Potentially 4-6 power and a removal spell while flipping to Bob for 1
Has tribal synergy (such as with Kalitas and Gurmag Angler)
Is a 3 mana 2 for 1, and can grow to a 3 or 4 for 1.
1 card investment to go wide around Karns, Wurmcoils, Nahiri's, or even opposing Goyfs.
The downside I see though is pretty obvious. What happens when it's a 3 mana 2/2 that can't kill anything?
I probably should make a set eval when I have time... but right now all these posting is from phone, and thats wayyy to hard to do.... So I'll do it when I can. I for one love looking back and seeing if I was wrong or right. Its more of a learning experance. Like with Nahiri, I said I didnt think it did enough. Youd be hit once for it to kill things, and its just card selection, not actual draw. I was too focused on the CA thing to see that its basically just used as a 4 mana "URW actually has a finisher that ends the game in a turn or 2 unlike before.
Now I know for future evals and buying things early.
Also on that note... Just to be clear... I think the last time it was the correct move to preorder something it was flip jace, and before that it was deathrite shaman... Thats like years apart. Pre order prices ususally are far too high.
I haven't actually posted any evaluations for these last two sets, at least not like most people do, so I'm not making a statement about my own content. I'm just speaking generally to anyone who is evaluating anyone else and their ability to assess (un)playability.
The only evaluations I've made, almost all in MN articles, are as follows:
Emrakul - Playable in RG Tron
Thalia - Maybe playable in Hatebears, Abzan Liege, or another GWx dork deck
Evolution - Playable in one of the many green-based toolbox/tutor decks
Mongrel 2.0 - Playable in at least one deck that will rise to Tier 2
Jury is out on the rest; I always try to test something before I speak on it.
I actually think you're onto something. I'm still trying to find a deck for Cryptolith Rite, which I still think is seriously busted and waiting. Here's a nice take on it.
4 Visera Seer
4 Noose Constrictor
4 Diregraf Colossus
4 Bridge from Below
Dump Bridge from Below, Sacrifice Gravecrawler, get back a zombie, tap the zombie to bring back Gravecrawler to sacrifice him again. Tap Viscera Seer, and then bring back Gravecrawler, and get another zombie, and sacrifice him again and get another zombie. On turn 2 you get 6 power in theory. Then turn 3, you'll get 3 lands + 3 zombies + 1 viscera seer = 10 zombies, and it exponentially increases over and over until feel you have enough to smash them. You can probably toss in a Blood Artist or a Mortician Beetle to get around Bridges, make Burn waste spells, or make a huge guy.
Remember, what was once a bad card can suddenly be good again. Take a look at Allosaurus Rider
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
We already had Sakura-Tribe Elder #5-8 in Viridian Emissary, so this probably won't contribute anything to Modern unless the 0/3 body is more relevant than a 2/1 body for some reason. Still, it's a nice card to have in Standard/Limited.
Slot into existing tier 1/2 Archetypes' 75
Selfless Spirit (Sideboard in D&T, 1-of in the main Abzan Company)
Unsubstantiate (RUG Scapeshift wouldn't mind Remand 5-8. It will also see play in Delver strategies of all types.)
Emrakul, the Promised End (Tron)
Collective Brutality (Sideboard in Jund, Sideboard in Grixis Control)
Eldritch Evolution (Abzan Company wants this. It sucks that you can't chain it with Witnesses, but the reason is that it can search out equal and lower CMC creatures, which makes it fairly useful. It can turn Wall of Roots into Anafenza, Finks, or Viscera Seer basically.)
Slot into existing Tier 3 or lower Archetypes' 75
Haunted Dead (Dredge, as izzetmage said)
Blessed Alliance (UWx control occasionally used Celestial Flare of all things to beat infect and boggles. This is an easier to cast version, with upside.)
Bedlam Reveler (it appears very much to be a 'win harder' card in Burn, though there is potential to see it in a sideboard against heavy discard, but Grixis Delver likes it, with all of the cantrips and discard. Given the support Delver strategies have been getting, I wouldn't be shocked if it pulls solidly into tier 2.)
Liliana the Last Hope (Grixis Delver loves this card, and so does UBx Fairies)
Up and Comers
Spell Queller, Mausoleum Wanderer, Nebelgast Herald (These are the picks for a U/W Spirit tempo build. Spell Queller is the most questionable, since over all it compares poorly with little Venser.)
Whispers of Emrakul, Gnarlwood Dryad, Advanced Stitchwing (These seem to be a solid base to a BUG midrange-control deck with a graveyard focus. It's a build that's always hovered around the edge of playability. Bit of a reach, but maybe. Delirium needs about 5 card types to make it consistant, if you've got a few enablers)
Noose Constrictor, Madness Cards (I'm not really convinced of a madness archetype ever taking hold without Circular Logic or Deep Analysis, but we've finally gotten some real Madness enablers.)
Long Shots
Bloodbriar (Given the number of fetchlands and Ghost Quarters in this format, Eldrazi Spawn, and the Knightfall Combo, this dude gets pretty big. 3CMC though. If any Draft Trash has constructed possibilities, this is the card. BG Loam could support this.)
Tree of Perdition (best/worst combo card ever)
Tamiyo, Field Researcher (Well, now there's finally a reason to build into Bant. I don't think she's strong enough on her own to make a Bant deck work. Maybe a year or two down the line we'll see something crop up with her in it.)
Take Inventory (Storm and Pyromancers Ascension could potentially want these, but I doubt it's any significant upgrade)
Them's my guesses.
I don't mind scrutiny, but I do mind selective representation of facts. I have a hard time believing that you are not taking this personally when you feel compelled to post a list of cards that I got wrong while leaving out the cards that I got right, then following up a few minutes later with more cards that I got wrong and still no mentions of my successes.
I fully understand this and have never made any claims to the contrary. I've already mentioned how I see picking cards as similar to picking stocks or teams. I think we can all agree that nobody can pick stocks or teams right every single time - if such a person existed, he can monetize his talents easily. Magic does in fact offer similar opportunities, but I would be drifting off topic if I got into a detailed discussion of them now.
That said, since you do not have the balls to do it, I feel that it is not too much to ask that you show some respect for someone who sticks his neck out and does so. To me it is very simple: if you are not willing to open yourself up to the same criticism as others, then you shouldn't criticize them.
lol, so my playables list is a subset of yours.
Is it safe to assume that you consider all the other cards unplayable (1.0-2.0)?
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I wouldn't call grixis delver a tier 3 deck when it has had great results.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I'm quite surprised to see someone share my opinion that Eldritch Evolution is unplayable. Most people seem to think it's the second coming of Pod. We'll see if it's more Collected Company or Evolutionary Leap.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Eh. Fair enough, I guess. I was going of May's data.
Fair points.
I think I've grossly misinterpreted your tone in your posts. Definitely no disrespect was intended at any point. For real. Your posts were coming off to me as cocky and self assured (largely due to your categorizations), and in you explaining your intentions with your lists it looks quite a bit different. Thank you for the explanation.
To get back on track, here's my list of cards I'm excited to try out OR I think can/will make a splash in modern:
Selfless Spirit, and really quite a few of the different UW spirits. The deck already felt close, maybe these new ones push it over the top.
Sigarda's Aid - Instant equipping is insanellllly powerful.
Thalia
Coax from Blind Eternities - U Tron?
Imprisoned in the Moon - Blue sideboards
Summary Dismissal - Sideboards, veryyyyy powerful effect
Unsubstantiate
Collective Brutality
New Liliana
Haunted Dead
Succumb to Temptation seems sweet - don't know how much people want instant speed divination though.
Whispers of Emrakul - think this along with some of the others now gives people a reason to look to get delirium, whether it works though is another story.
Bedlam Reveler - TC 2.0? We'll find out.
Harmless Offering - not yet, but eventually someone will break this.
Eldritch Evolution - I think this will make waves, but not break the format. Sorcery speed is pretty brutal but the effect is sooooo powerful.
Foul Emissary - Seems sweet. Tons of value.
Gnarlwood Dryad - more delirium payoff.
Noose Constrictor - can potentially spawn an entire new archetype.
Splendid Reclamation - I don't know that the tools are fully in modern to break this in half, but I think this is one of the most powerful cards in recent memory. WILL cause a problem in some format some day.
Grim Flayer - More delirium goodness.
Tamiyo - Is probably going to break standard. Hopefully she finds a home some day in modern. Definitely a reason to start considering non-aggro versions of bant but the deck probably still needs a few more things.
Emmy - a home run. I'm ready to embrace my mindslavering overlords.
Elder Deep Fiend - I WANT this to find a place in modern but I'm not sure it will. I love Mistbind Clique effects.
Eternal Scourge - I think this is the sweetest card in the set. Will this eventually be some sort of modern nether spirit? Maybe. I'm excited to try.
Lone Rider - Might get there. If you can reliably flip then the other side is a total house.
Docent of Perfection - I'm just excited this exists.
Lupine Prototype - Seems breakable, but Myr Superion and many cards like it remain ALMOST there. This looks kind of like that.
Nephalia Academy - I'm down for sideboard lands. Seems sweet. Not every deck wants Leyline of Sanctity because of how swingy it is - yet, a turn 1 land that can't produced colored mana is a real downside. Cards like this make for more interesting choices in deck building which is awesome.
Geier Reach Sanitarium - if your opponent is hellbent this is all upside.
So, yeah. The set looks sweet. Great flavor. Great potential. EXCEEDINGLY powerful cards all over the place.
Sadly, Sigarda only prevents sacrifice effects if your opponent controls them. For instance, if you control Sigarda, you can sac your fetches. Since you control Lunar Force, you can sacrifice it to its own effect.
Druid might be better in one of those Assault Formation lists in the Forest Belcher thread, I suppose.
That said, the BUG color combination is getting a little love. If there's a critical mass there, then maybe Grim Flayer and potentially Whispers of Emrakul if a BUG Thought Scour deck can reliably turn on Delirium. The deck may also be able to use the new Wild Mongrel, so add that with Flayer and Whispers.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Other than that, there are a few cards that I think will see light play in Modern, but no format staple or anything like that.
The delirium draw3 for 4cmc is really tempting, but I don't think there's a control deck that can use it. Maybe scapeshift since if plays early tribe elders, but meh.
Btw, some1 has the link to the last set's card evaluation thread? I believe I was the only one talking wonders about Nahiri while everyone else was overrating bad cards.
This statement is proven wrong every. damn. set.
( 0.0 )
=O ((U/R)) O=
(")(")
I'm an AI making Magic cards.
http://www.staalmedia.nl/nexus/#generate
Curiosity has some decent trigger-stacking synergy with Grim Flayer too, but is likely otherwise unplayable.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Let's start a thread and get a brew going!
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
It's still too early...
Sadly I think I've come to the same conclusion. They just aren't quite there.... 10 total, 5 die to Dismember, 2 of which are maybe worth it, and only 3 trade/bump with goyf. Best I can come up with is
T1 Mana dork
T2 Cathodion
T3 Emerge
or
T1 Discard
T2 Sylvan Scrying for a Cavern of Souls or Academy Ruins / Discard + Ancient Stirrings (for Academy/Cathodion)
T3 Cathodion
T4 Emerge
Neither of which seem vary appealing. There just isn't the payoff for getting that large creature into play the way there is with Tron. And protecting that large creature after all that work is still a chore. Then you still might just die to Burn or Zoo. I think I'd rather just Eldritch Evolution into Phyrexian Obliterator.
Edit: Odds ands ends...
Edit 2: I think I'll just aim to get as many of the Emerge cards into play during the pre-release weekend and be content.
How about:
Turn 1: land, hiearch/bird/eldrazi temple
turn 2: land, play a matter reshaper or skyspawner
turn 3: land, attack w/ reshaper/spawner pass turn, Emerge the octopus to time walk them.
I'm messing around w/ U/G eldrazi tempo playing 2-3 of the octopus and 1-2 of wretched Gryff. Idk if it's better than bant eldrazi but I think the best shell for the emerge cards (of which I think only the octopus may be worth it) is an eldrazi deck
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Agreed. A few may slot into the Eldrazi deck as bit of a top end (T3 not with standing.) I was surprised to see a second one with flash. They seem best played in response to a trade or removal and they play so well together. Emerging a creature from an Emerge creature seems fine.
Distended Mindbender seems fine on T3. Seems a high likelihood of hitting 2 cards.
EDIT: 1 of which could be the Dismember that will kill it.....
Dark Salvation actually looks Modern playable to me. I fully recognize that I may just be seeing things but:
It hits any spot on the curve
Potentially 4-6 power and a removal spell while flipping to Bob for 1
Has tribal synergy (such as with Kalitas and Gurmag Angler)
Is a 3 mana 2 for 1, and can grow to a 3 or 4 for 1.
1 card investment to go wide around Karns, Wurmcoils, Nahiri's, or even opposing Goyfs.
The downside I see though is pretty obvious. What happens when it's a 3 mana 2/2 that can't kill anything?
Now I know for future evals and buying things early.
Also on that note... Just to be clear... I think the last time it was the correct move to preorder something it was flip jace, and before that it was deathrite shaman... Thats like years apart. Pre order prices ususally are far too high.