I would kill for a good 7 drop. Running Deceiver of Form right now as a 1-of but imagine if we could have a colourless threat at 7 that was in-line with World Breaker. Synergy with Sanctum as well; we could hard cast it on T3 with natural tron (or map+tron). Something with a cast trigger or a form of protection; it would give EldraziTron our Wurmcoil Engine that Tron has.
All the time I wish Wurmcoil was 7. I'm right there with you. Keep your fingers crossed.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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2 ways of winning:
1) Coax for Endless One -> Possibility Storm -> Endless One into Emrakul
2) Coax for Emrakul (or draw it naturally) -> Breach into Emrakul
Sadly it's still a 3-card combo (+1 card for rituals), and I don't see what it does better than Ad Nauseam. Not die to Blood Moon?
2 ways of winning:
1) Coax for Endless One -> Possibility Storm -> Endless One into Emrakul
2) Coax for Emrakul (or draw it naturally) -> Breach into Emrakul
Sadly it's still a 3-card combo (+1 card for rituals), and I don't see what it does better than Ad Nauseam. Not die to Blood Moon?
Here's my list. It's kind-of like Twin without snapcaster (aka worse), but it's definitely more reactive/stall than all-in combo.
Not sure what Coax would exactly do, but it is a welcome addition.
Recent revelations have shown that Eldrazi are getting in on the DFC action, backside of one card is apparently:
>Hanweir, the Writhing Township
>Legendary Creature - Eldrazi Ooze
>Trample, Haste, When ~ attacks put two 3/2 colorless Eldrazi Horror tokens onto the battlefield tapped and attacking
>7/4
If the front side is good (read: doesn't die to a wet fart in "dead creatures - the omniciding") and the transformation clause isn't too bizarre, you're looking at a crazy tentacle take on Grave Titan.
Granted, Grave Titan leaves up blockers while also being a ridiculously fast clock, but bashing in for 13 across 3 bodies of which the main one doesn't die to a single Lightning Bolt, it seems nice.
Recent revelations have shown that Eldrazi are getting in on the DFC action, backside of one card is apparently:
>Hanweir, the Writhing Township
>Legendary Creature - Eldrazi Ooze
>Trample, Haste, When ~ attacks put two 3/2 colorless Eldrazi Horror tokens onto the battlefield tapped and attacking
>7/4
If the front side is good (read: doesn't die to a wet fart in "dead creatures - the omniciding") and the transformation clause isn't too bizarre, you're looking at a crazy tentacle take on Grave Titan.
Granted, Grave Titan leaves up blockers while also being a ridiculously fast clock, but bashing in for 13 across 3 bodies of which the main one doesn't die to a single Lightning Bolt, it seems nice.
Assuming the lore informs the card design, I'd expect some kind of multiple sacrifice trigger involving humans and/or lands. If we're lucky, it might just be creatures instead of humans; tribal-specific triggers would kill the card's playability.
Recent revelations have shown that Eldrazi are getting in on the DFC action, backside of one card is apparently:
>Hanweir, the Writhing Township
>Legendary Creature - Eldrazi Ooze
>Trample, Haste, When ~ attacks put two 3/2 colorless Eldrazi Horror tokens onto the battlefield tapped and attacking
>7/4
If the front side is good (read: doesn't die to a wet fart in "dead creatures - the omniciding") and the transformation clause isn't too bizarre, you're looking at a crazy tentacle take on Grave Titan.
Granted, Grave Titan leaves up blockers while also being a ridiculously fast clock, but bashing in for 13 across 3 bodies of which the main one doesn't die to a single Lightning Bolt, it seems nice.
Assuming the lore informs the card design, I'd expect some kind of multiple sacrifice trigger involving humans and/or lands. If we're lucky, it might just be creatures instead of humans; tribal-specific triggers would kill the card's playability.
Whatever the flip mechanic is it'll have to be something that is reasonable to do the turn it comes into play (otherwise why would it have haste).
I'm with you all that I am disappointed it's Emrakul. I was hoping for Merit Liege but oh well... My buddy sent me this picture that I am excited about:
Let's just hope they don't kill her and her new card is just as solid.
This is a deviant art picture. Its not a new card art.
I'm with you all that I am disappointed it's Emrakul. I was hoping for Merit Liege but oh well... My buddy sent me this picture that I am excited about:
Let's just hope they don't kill her and her new card is just as solid.
This is a deviant art picture. Its not a new card art.
That's unfortunate. The dimensions of the image would imply Planeswalker. Would have been very interesting to see what they did with that...
Well planeswalkers can pass their spark so an intersting development would be if Sorin (distraught after learning the truth about Avacyn) decides to stay on INN and no longer walk the planes. Taking the protection of INN into his own hands. He gifts his spark to Thalia for reasons? It'd be cool if he also remade Avacyn (or an angel like her) and gave her his spark to perform his will on other planes so he could stay on INN. Then we'd have both an angel and a demon planeswalker. I do love me some Thalia though.
that sounds like a very 'unblack' thing to do, Sorin might be considering himself as Innistrad's protector (or rather Innistrad as his property) but he has his own agenda and is a selfish black walker nonetheless
He is BW now though... That changes his attitude on a lot of things (especially since now the Eldrazi fight has been brought to his doorstep literally, I could see him deciding he needs to help out in some way. Potentially go after some big dragon planeswalker who schemed of releasing them in the first place?)
Perhaps you missed the early tests part there bud. Yeah I think Ulamog is slightly more expensive to play, but being indestructible and removing two permanents trumps what the new guy does. Now, compare how much the new guy is asking for on ebay, $20 plus a piece versus the $10 or so Ulamog costs. It might be better with Nahiri but I think is pretty lame to start with so whatever.
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Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
With Ems reduction claus he should be less, its not hard having 4 card types in the graveyard. Whats the RB sorcery that kills creatures and planeswalkers? It will be in sideboards. Yeah Ulamog gets pathed which makes it roughly a 3 for 1 which is pretty good regardless. Card cost is always relevant. Unless you live in a reality where money is no object. Bang for your buck my friend bang for your buck.
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
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Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
With Ems reduction claus he should be less, its not hard having 4 card types in the graveyard. Whats the RB sorcery that kills creatures and planeswalkers? It will be in sideboards. Yeah Ulamog gets pathed which makes it roughly a 3 for 1 which is pretty good regardless. Card cost is always relevant. Unless you live in a reality where money is no object. Bang for your buck my friend bang for your buck.
In my RG Tron test, Emrakul and Ulamog came down on basically the same turn with a single exception where Ulamog would have landed a turn earlier. Emrakul is effectively 11 mana in Tron, and the main time 11 vs. 10 mana is super relevant is in the double-Tower T4 Ulamog line. Lossett's build can also get Emrakul to 10 without much difficulty, either through the 4 Bolts or the Spellskite which might get killed. The cost just isn't really an issue.
Ok first question, why would run this over the original? Sure it comes down a little sooner in tron but it also can't be countered, plus an extra turn. That out of the way, I still don'y see how it is that much help for tron in its bad match ups. Most of the time it seems like tron just can't get ahead of the faster decks. A 13 mana creature isn't gonna change that match up.
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Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Only if its in your hand. And if you are attacking with an 11 mana creature against infect or affinity the other player is doing it wrong and its merely win more anyway. IDK, though, I suppose in a mirror, the new guy might be marginally better. Most of the time that mu comes down to luck anyway. And don't scoff at two permanents. It's not that hard taking you off of tron and now you are producing considerably less mana.
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Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Ok first question, why would run this over the original? Sure it comes down a little sooner in tron but it also can't be countered, plus an extra turn. That out of the way, I still don'y see how it is that much help for tron in its bad match ups. Most of the time it seems like tron just can't get ahead of the faster decks. A 13 mana creature isn't gonna change that match up.
It's not a 13 mana creature. It's an 11 mana creature that can be a 10 mana creature in actual games, where you've added a Karn, Spellskite, or land to the graveyard on top of the customary artifact/sorcery. Calling Emrakul a 13 mana creature is like calling Tasigur a six-drop, or calling Become Immense a six-mana pump spell.
The original Emrakul is way way too slow at 15 mana. The difference between 15 and 10-11 mana is MASSIVE in Tron; just play the deck to asses that or watch any coverage of Tron players from recent SCG/GP events. If old Emrakul cost 10-11, sure, I'd play her in a second. But she doesn't, so she's immediately off the table.
We need to compare her to Ulamog, not to old Emrakul, because they compete for the same curvetopper slot. This means it doesn't matter if Emrakul can't land until T5-T6 because that's when Ulamog (a card Tron already runs) isn't landing until then either. The real question is, does Emrakul's trigger help the boardstate more than Ulamog's? In my experience and testing so far, the answer is "yes," where Ulamog only kills two permanents and Emrakul averages three cards "removed" with the upside for at least 1-2 more.
Against what? What are you playing that is holding that many cards late? I mean are you just playing trons good match ups? It seems to me that any deck you are able to make 2-5 card advantage through Ems ability is a deck tron should already be beating. You're basing the how good Ems ability on best case scenario, well I'm a pessimist at worst and a realist at best. The truth is if you miss with Em's mindslaver you are in a worse position than if you played ulamog. Actually a lot worse because you just gave your opponent a time walk.
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Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Against control and midrange? WHAT! That's like trons best matchup. Congrats you just graduated to win more. And against aggro, what does Em's ability do with an empty hand? Besides again, if your gonna win that mu it's usually more luck than anything else.
Further both you are assuming that you'll have cards in the yard to help you cast Em. There is plenty of yard hate out there and its gonna be in most SB so in effect you've given your opponent another live card against you post board.
Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
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Burn
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Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
First of all, don't triple post. I'm aware of the mobile issue but that's not an excuse to sloppily triple post when you aren't even multiquoting. Just edit an old post.
Against what? What are you playing that is holding that many cards late? I mean are you just playing trons good match ups? It seems to me that any deck you are able to make 2-5 card advantage through Ems ability is a deck tron should already be beating. You're basing the how good Ems ability on best case scenario, well I'm a pessimist at worst and a realist at best. The truth is if you miss with Em's mindslaver you are in a worse position than if you played ulamog. Actually a lot worse because you just gave your opponent a time walk.
I get the sense you personally don't want Emrakul to work, so rather than suggesting testing strategies to help us understand the card better, you are just disagreeing with everything people say. Instead of getting caught in that loop, I'm going to rephrase the question in the hopes of helping other users evaluate the card too: what matchups do you think Emrakul should be tested in?
Further both you are assuming that you'll have cards in the yard to help you cast Em. There is plenty of yard hate out there and its gonna be in most SB so in effect you've given your opponent another live card against you post board.
If opponents are boarding yard hate against Tron because of two cards in my deck, that's a huge win for Tron and a huge loss for the opponent. No one boards in yard hate to stop Infect's or Suicide Zoo's Become Immenses, and they run more copies than we run of Emrakul. This kind of objection is poorly thought out and again underscores the point I made earlier: you seem like you just don't like the card and aren't having a very level-headed discussion about its pros and cons.
Further both you are assuming that you'll have cards in the yard to help you cast Em. There is plenty of yard hate out there and its gonna be in most SB so in effect you've given your opponent another live card against you post board.
If opponents are boarding yard hate against Tron because of two cards in my deck, that's a huge win for Tron and a huge loss for the opponent. No one boards in yard hate to stop Infect's or Suicide Zoo's Become Immenses, and they run more copies than we run of Emrakul. This kind of objection is poorly thought out and again underscores the point I made earlier: you seem like you just don't like the card and aren't having a very level-headed discussion about its pros and cons.
For RG Tron it's definitely a win (I get that is where you guys are initially discussing), against U Tron it makes more sense because they are already wanting to run Mindslaver lock.
Further both you are assuming that you'll have cards in the yard to help you cast Em. There is plenty of yard hate out there and its gonna be in most SB so in effect you've given your opponent another live card against you post board.
If opponents are boarding yard hate against Tron because of two cards in my deck, that's a huge win for Tron and a huge loss for the opponent. No one boards in yard hate to stop Infect's or Suicide Zoo's Become Immenses, and they run more copies than we run of Emrakul. This kind of objection is poorly thought out and again underscores the point I made earlier: you seem like you just don't like the card and aren't having a very level-headed discussion about its pros and cons.
For RG Tron it's definitely a win (I get that is where you guys are initially discussing), against U Tron it makes more sense because they are already wanting to run Mindslaver lock.
That's definitely a liability in U and UW Tron, where it just makes sideboarded graveyard hate more dangerous. Of course, the blue Tron decks can also shave off much more of Emrakul's cost through discard and more card types, so it's an interesting trade. But yeah, as you said, I'm much more focused on RG Tron.
So if it's gonna replace something, shouldn't it help the bad matchups? Isn't beating decks you're already favored in purely win more? Am I wrong here? ANd no I don't hate the card but when I see something pre-selling for $25 apiece I feel it needs to be examined inside and out with a microscope. A little harsh examination early on by the community shouldn't be looked upon like a bad thing.
Well maybe people should consider those cards instead of auto losing to become immense. Remember it's not necessarily how often a sb card is useful but also what it is useful for. In the case of become immense, how many game outcomes could have been change if BI was off the board as an option?
And to reiterate, I actually love the flavor of the new Em. Honestly I wanted the set to go another direction but that can't be helped now. Mechanically, I gauged it on par with Newlamog. It can be situationally better or worse depending. Price point wise, it is way out of hand as is the usual case during spoiler season but coming out a proclaiming it the new champion of tron does not help, especially when its such a fine line.
What about the new Coax from the Blind Eternities? Seems like it could be Blue based Trons way back into contention for viability. And its any Eldrazi spell so that includes instants, enchantments and such so you could effectively make an Eldraziboard.
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Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
So if it's gonna replace something, shouldn't it help the bad matchups? Isn't beating decks you're already favored in purely win more? Am I wrong here?
Hypothetically, let's say Ulamog gives Tron a 40-60 matchup in its bad matchups and a 60-40 matchup in its good ones. Let's say Emrakul preserved the 40-60 matchup in the bad matchups and improved the good matchups to 65-35. That's not "win-more" as it gets colloquially defined. That's winning MORE, as in, your matchups improved and you are less likely to lose games.
Of course, that's just a hypothetical scenario because I have no idea about Ulamog's or Emrakul's exact percentages in bad or good matchups. But it does illustrate how even if Emrakul was just as bad as Ulamog in the bad matchups, it could still be better for the deck if it guaranteed the good ones. A more interesting scenario would be, again hypothetically, if Emrakul switched the numbers to 35-65 for the bad and 65-35 for the good.
ANd no I don't hate the card but when I see something pre-selling for $25 apiece I feel it needs to be examined inside and out with a microscope. A little harsh examination early on by the community shouldn't be looked upon like a bad thing.
Examination is helpful. Unsubstantiated criticism is not. Saying stuff like "Emrakul makes Tron more vulnerable to graveyard hate" is just kind of absurd, and reminds me of people defending broken cards because they "die to removal." I read in your posts a legitimate annoyance with Emrakul's price and the general spoiler pricing mania which, in turn, is bleeding into your analysis. Those two need to be separated. They can both be distinct issues worth discussing, but they don't overlap.
The other thing U (or I guess UW Gifts Tron would be better) can get is Coax as well so in theory it can pull one out of the Sideboard as an extra Mindslaver effect or something... I'm not solidly impressed by it but that is mainly because I don't play any of the Tron Variants and likely that is all where this would see play. Everything else would have to ramp too hard most likely.
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All the time I wish Wurmcoil was 7. I'm right there with you. Keep your fingers crossed.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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4 Misty Rainforest
5 Island
2 Mountain
3 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
1 Desolate Lighthouse
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Pentad Prism
4 Vessel of Volatility
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Coax from the Blind Eternities
2 Izzet Charm
4 Through the Breach
4 Possibility Storm
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Endless One
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 All Is Dust
3 Blood Moon
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Dispel
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Shatterstorm
1) Coax for Endless One -> Possibility Storm -> Endless One into Emrakul
2) Coax for Emrakul (or draw it naturally) -> Breach into Emrakul
Sadly it's still a 3-card combo (+1 card for rituals), and I don't see what it does better than Ad Nauseam. Not die to Blood Moon?
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Here's my list. It's kind-of like Twin without snapcaster (aka worse), but it's definitely more reactive/stall than all-in combo.
Not sure what Coax would exactly do, but it is a welcome addition.
>Hanweir, the Writhing Township
>Legendary Creature - Eldrazi Ooze
>Trample, Haste, When ~ attacks put two 3/2 colorless Eldrazi Horror tokens onto the battlefield tapped and attacking
>7/4
If the front side is good (read: doesn't die to a wet fart in "dead creatures - the omniciding") and the transformation clause isn't too bizarre, you're looking at a crazy tentacle take on Grave Titan.
Granted, Grave Titan leaves up blockers while also being a ridiculously fast clock, but bashing in for 13 across 3 bodies of which the main one doesn't die to a single Lightning Bolt, it seems nice.
I suppose you could play 4 Coax from the Blind Eternities mainboard and Endless One in the sideboard. Then you can cast Coax from the Blind Eternities to put Endless One into your hand, rather than needing to draw a single copy of Endless One naturally.
Assuming the lore informs the card design, I'd expect some kind of multiple sacrifice trigger involving humans and/or lands. If we're lucky, it might just be creatures instead of humans; tribal-specific triggers would kill the card's playability.
Whatever the flip mechanic is it'll have to be something that is reasonable to do the turn it comes into play (otherwise why would it have haste).
That's unfortunate. The dimensions of the image would imply Planeswalker. Would have been very interesting to see what they did with that...
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Well planeswalkers can pass their spark so an intersting development would be if Sorin (distraught after learning the truth about Avacyn) decides to stay on INN and no longer walk the planes. Taking the protection of INN into his own hands. He gifts his spark to Thalia for reasons? It'd be cool if he also remade Avacyn (or an angel like her) and gave her his spark to perform his will on other planes so he could stay on INN. Then we'd have both an angel and a demon planeswalker. I do love me some Thalia though.
He is BW now though... That changes his attitude on a lot of things (especially since now the Eldrazi fight has been brought to his doorstep literally, I could see him deciding he needs to help out in some way. Potentially go after some big dragon planeswalker who schemed of releasing them in the first place?)
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
In my RG Tron test, Emrakul and Ulamog came down on basically the same turn with a single exception where Ulamog would have landed a turn earlier. Emrakul is effectively 11 mana in Tron, and the main time 11 vs. 10 mana is super relevant is in the double-Tower T4 Ulamog line. Lossett's build can also get Emrakul to 10 without much difficulty, either through the 4 Bolts or the Spellskite which might get killed. The cost just isn't really an issue.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
It's not a 13 mana creature. It's an 11 mana creature that can be a 10 mana creature in actual games, where you've added a Karn, Spellskite, or land to the graveyard on top of the customary artifact/sorcery. Calling Emrakul a 13 mana creature is like calling Tasigur a six-drop, or calling Become Immense a six-mana pump spell.
The original Emrakul is way way too slow at 15 mana. The difference between 15 and 10-11 mana is MASSIVE in Tron; just play the deck to asses that or watch any coverage of Tron players from recent SCG/GP events. If old Emrakul cost 10-11, sure, I'd play her in a second. But she doesn't, so she's immediately off the table.
We need to compare her to Ulamog, not to old Emrakul, because they compete for the same curvetopper slot. This means it doesn't matter if Emrakul can't land until T5-T6 because that's when Ulamog (a card Tron already runs) isn't landing until then either. The real question is, does Emrakul's trigger help the boardstate more than Ulamog's? In my experience and testing so far, the answer is "yes," where Ulamog only kills two permanents and Emrakul averages three cards "removed" with the upside for at least 1-2 more.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Further both you are assuming that you'll have cards in the yard to help you cast Em. There is plenty of yard hate out there and its gonna be in most SB so in effect you've given your opponent another live card against you post board.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
I get the sense you personally don't want Emrakul to work, so rather than suggesting testing strategies to help us understand the card better, you are just disagreeing with everything people say. Instead of getting caught in that loop, I'm going to rephrase the question in the hopes of helping other users evaluate the card too: what matchups do you think Emrakul should be tested in?
If opponents are boarding yard hate against Tron because of two cards in my deck, that's a huge win for Tron and a huge loss for the opponent. No one boards in yard hate to stop Infect's or Suicide Zoo's Become Immenses, and they run more copies than we run of Emrakul. This kind of objection is poorly thought out and again underscores the point I made earlier: you seem like you just don't like the card and aren't having a very level-headed discussion about its pros and cons.
For RG Tron it's definitely a win (I get that is where you guys are initially discussing), against U Tron it makes more sense because they are already wanting to run Mindslaver lock.
That's definitely a liability in U and UW Tron, where it just makes sideboarded graveyard hate more dangerous. Of course, the blue Tron decks can also shave off much more of Emrakul's cost through discard and more card types, so it's an interesting trade. But yeah, as you said, I'm much more focused on RG Tron.
So if it's gonna replace something, shouldn't it help the bad matchups? Isn't beating decks you're already favored in purely win more? Am I wrong here? ANd no I don't hate the card but when I see something pre-selling for $25 apiece I feel it needs to be examined inside and out with a microscope. A little harsh examination early on by the community shouldn't be looked upon like a bad thing.
Well maybe people should consider those cards instead of auto losing to become immense. Remember it's not necessarily how often a sb card is useful but also what it is useful for. In the case of become immense, how many game outcomes could have been change if BI was off the board as an option?
And to reiterate, I actually love the flavor of the new Em. Honestly I wanted the set to go another direction but that can't be helped now. Mechanically, I gauged it on par with Newlamog. It can be situationally better or worse depending. Price point wise, it is way out of hand as is the usual case during spoiler season but coming out a proclaiming it the new champion of tron does not help, especially when its such a fine line.
What about the new Coax from the Blind Eternities? Seems like it could be Blue based Trons way back into contention for viability. And its any Eldrazi spell so that includes instants, enchantments and such so you could effectively make an Eldraziboard.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
It was a triple post. I merged two of them.
Hypothetically, let's say Ulamog gives Tron a 40-60 matchup in its bad matchups and a 60-40 matchup in its good ones. Let's say Emrakul preserved the 40-60 matchup in the bad matchups and improved the good matchups to 65-35. That's not "win-more" as it gets colloquially defined. That's winning MORE, as in, your matchups improved and you are less likely to lose games.
Of course, that's just a hypothetical scenario because I have no idea about Ulamog's or Emrakul's exact percentages in bad or good matchups. But it does illustrate how even if Emrakul was just as bad as Ulamog in the bad matchups, it could still be better for the deck if it guaranteed the good ones. A more interesting scenario would be, again hypothetically, if Emrakul switched the numbers to 35-65 for the bad and 65-35 for the good.
Examination is helpful. Unsubstantiated criticism is not. Saying stuff like "Emrakul makes Tron more vulnerable to graveyard hate" is just kind of absurd, and reminds me of people defending broken cards because they "die to removal." I read in your posts a legitimate annoyance with Emrakul's price and the general spoiler pricing mania which, in turn, is bleeding into your analysis. Those two need to be separated. They can both be distinct issues worth discussing, but they don't overlap.