Infect, that deck is just too fast. If the shuffling and cutting and rolling and just generally getting set up to play can take longer than the actual first game, it's not fun. Fatal Push will do great things, but when Infect is a major deck near me I am forced to play Burn. I have multiple decks and enjoy all of them, but needing first turn ways to kill a creature really gets boring, even if I do usually beat it.
To the people saying Tron, if you can't beat Tron, you are either refusing to switch from one of the small handful of decks it does well against, or I'm sorry, you might just not be a good player. I have and enjoy the deck, I have a lot of experience with it. Obviously if you refuse to play anything but control or midrange you are going to have a bad time, that type of meta is why Tron exists at all, which btw is a big factor in allowing your decks to be good because they beat the decks that prey on Tron. God hands can happen, t3 Karn, t4 Ugin, t5-6 Eldrazi, but the deck is more likely to not have anything until turn 5, which gives you all kinds of chances to have creatures or something. Discard hurts Tron same as any combo deck. I wish it was busted enough for all of the hate, but I have not been able to play it hardly at all since Eye got hit
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Really hate Lantern/Storm/Eggs and Tron. Its just not fun to play against decks that do not let you play magic
I've never quite understood statements like this. You are very literally playing a game of Magic. You both have Magic cards in hand and are both playing by the rules. I understand the whole "I didn't get to do what my deck was designed to do" feel bads, but you still played a game of Magic. That's what's so great about this game - such a huge variety of play styles and things to choose from.
for me its not playing magic if only my opp gets to play syr
But that's just the point. You did play. You may have been "shut out" or you may have lost convincingly, both of which feel bad, but you still played.
As a Tron player, I totally get where everyone's discontent is coming from. I'm peeling your lands off the battlefield and slamming fatties.
There's no deck right now that I hate playing against. The closest would have been Eggs. Just kill me already, dude. Don't make me have to wait to see if you whiff. Burn is annoying in large quantities, too but you just add more sideboard stuff.
I also play tron,there really is a lot of hate and it can be found in every color.
Black is usually discard.
White is usually locks and restrictions(tap abilities).
Blue is counterspells and land attack like what merfolk does with spreading seas and sea's claim.
Red is straight out destruction.
Green has a little of everything I think.
Trick is to have enough hate to deal with a general scope of decks then SB with a few decks in mind that are problematic to the deck your currently running.If karn is the issue then it's hate against permanents to hit lands or karn itself,sideboard to deal with tron,valakut, timewarp and other decks that rely on certain lands or a certain amount before they can get going.
I think one of the biggest issues is a resolved karn which I feel will get the boot eventually,ugins bad enough but dropping karn is stupid powerful,its the only walker that ends the game on resolution 90% of the time.
Tron itself is only as powerful as the monsters it can cheat in turn three,ugin needs additional ramp to be turn three,same with sundering titan both at eight mana.platinum angel at seven mana can win games but isn't an auto scoop when it resolves like karn.
Tron has been around since the beginning,its karn itself that has given "tron" lands a bad name.
But this is only my two cents.Happy brewing.
I think Tron is a lot like Lantern in that often, even when it's won, there's an illusion of its opponent having a chance.
Realistically, once Lantern has its namesake card, Ensnaring Bridge, and at least one mill rock, you've lost 99% of the time, even if it doesn't feel like it. Similarly with Tron - turn 3 Tron into Karn is usually game over, but for a lot of players it feels like they still have a chance even though they don't.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Really hate Lantern/Storm/Eggs and Tron. Its just not fun to play against decks that do not let you play magic
I've never quite understood statements like this. You are very literally playing a game of Magic. You both have Magic cards in hand and are both playing by the rules. I understand the whole "I didn't get to do what my deck was designed to do" feel bads, but you still played a game of Magic. That's what's so great about this game - such a huge variety of play styles and things to choose from.
for me its not playing magic if only my opp gets to play syr
But that's just the point. You did play. You may have been "shut out" or you may have lost convincingly, both of which feel bad, but you still played.
We just have to agree that we do not share the same point of view
I don't even agree that it's a matter of view points. I don't mean to attack you, this isn't a personal thing. But you factually sat down with a Magic deck that adhered to rules of a format and were across from someone else with the same. You both shuffled and presented. At least one of you and likely both of you, especially in Modern, had 1 or more turns. You very literally played a game of Magic, no matter what else happened or how quickly it was over or how badly you were locked out of using your cards to your best advantage. One of you won, you both signed a slip, etc. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. You played a game of Magic.
That said, I totally understand the sentiment behind it. I just don't like the saying.
I guess I'm just an old fogey who started playing with Revised and thinks all archetypes and playstyles are fair game and still constitute both players factually playing a game of Magic.
1) Lantern
2) Lantern
3) Lantern
4) Tron
5) Stupid decks like RW Prison, Hatebears, 8rack, Dredge and Grishoalbrand.
Some players just like these archetypes. They have their place in the meta, keeping certain decks from dominating metagames. Personally, I enjoy playing unpopular decks. I played Jund most recently over a year ago at FNM and went 5-0, beating 2 Junk decks, a Jund deck, and 2 other decks. I told myself I'd never run it again (despite being a HUGE spike) because it was just so bloody boring (and I'm not from England and have never visited there yet)
I'm currently running Little Kid Abzan and it's boring as hell. But I feel like I gotta do it to soften the meta for Eggs, Amulet Titan, or whatever other deck I like to play.
*Sorry, I forgot that I ran Jund with Madcap Experiment/Platinum Emperion and a very different SB with Blood Moon at a TNM (3 rounds) right after Madcap Experiment came out.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Everyone, literally everyone who uses that phrase is fully aware that they are technically still playing a game of magic. If you understand what they are trying to say or as you put it "the sentiment behind it", all you are really doing by pointing that out is complaining about semantics. You have to know that no one is claiming that if they played a match against lantern/tron/etc that it doesn't actually count as a game of magic, and if you know that and are still bringing it up then you are either trying to look smart for strangers on the internet (which is totally not working given that literally everyone already knew what you were trying to point out) or you just like to complain and point out the obvious. You don't have to like the saying, but people are going to keep using it. Complaining about the semantics is a waste of time.
Amulet Titan - because sometimes I have to watch and follow how they tap and return lands... to make sure they really have enough mana to cast that turn 4 double striking Titan.
Taking Turns. I know it's not a top tier deck, but that is the definition of anti-magic. At least decks like storm need to win in a single phase or they lose all their mana, even if they somehow had to switch phases they lose the storm count if they can't kill. This deck is just as annoying as it can while it goes off.
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
I hate playing with/against burn, mostly because I find it to be insufferably boring. I despise merfolk for similar reasons. I've never had quite the same problem with any other deck I can think of. I'm never happy after a game with or against either of those decks, even if I win; I just feel like I could have had about as much fun flipping a coin for 20 minutes.
The hate towards lantern saddens me; I love slow magic, and consider it a skill knowing when you can no longer win. I find some of the most interesting game states to solve occur while playing with/against lantern, at least personally.
I've gotten more salt thrown at me when I'm on Turn's than any other deck, hell, all my other decks combined.
People HATE Turns, and I always play it fast and take less time on my Turns than they do. :/
I dont mind playing against turns, I've had some bombastic games against the deck.
On topic: I do hate lantern and will refuse to scoop to the soft lock. Present a clear win con that I can't get out of if you want me to scoop like twin, or don't get salty. Just. Because you chose a deck that durdles for 25 min games doesn't mean I have to sign a match slip for you.
RW prison is a deck that honestly confuses me in its existence. It preys on lower tier creature based strats mainly and I'm almost kind of annoyed when I see it. I mean elves and merfolk aren't putting 3-6 copies in every top 8...wtf did you bring his pile of hate for me to slog through. Ugh.
Tron used to bother me, but big mana is fun so I get it. Messing around with a proxy 12 post list in legacy gave me a new appreciation for the deck.
I think I've posted it before but amulet bloom pre ban was downright atrocious. It's like I brought an intro deck to the pro tour when I sit across from them. Glad to see it slow down a bit. Titans are fine, whatever. Hive mind kills are not cool when you hold priority and I can't even do anything about it.
Ad naus is boarder line for me. Combo is fine, like scapeshift is totally gravy. Ad naus running 8 get out of jail free cards is frustrating. I can beat them, but I don't like feeling like it's a particularly skillful game when it goes down. It's a yeh, drew the wrong half of your deck...sorry man.
On topic: I do hate lantern and will refuse to scoop to the soft lock. Present a clear win con that I can't get out of if you want me to scoop like twin, or don't get salty. Just. Because you chose a deck that durdles for 25 min games doesn't mean I have to sign a match slip for you.
You mean, you'd actually let me play it out and kill you with mill rocks? No one actually lets me do that irl, this would make me so happy.
On topic: I do hate lantern and will refuse to scoop to the soft lock. Present a clear win con that I can't get out of if you want me to scoop like twin, or don't get salty. Just. Because you chose a deck that durdles for 25 min games doesn't mean I have to sign a match slip for you.
You mean, you'd actually let me play it out and kill you with mill rocks? No one actually lets me do that irl, this would make me so happy.
That's something that confuses me, why people hate to concede. People rage at me when I'm on Turns, but honestly I rarely fizzle, just concede or let it play out.
I scoop to Lantern unless I've got outs, it's all good.
Tron, easily. It invalidates strategies and pushes you into fast linear aggro or fast combo if you want to beat it. If you want to play other kinds of decks like midrange or control, you find that land destruction often isn't fast enough and that there isn't a powerful hate card ala keeping Affinity honest.
For a big mana deck, it breaks some traditional rules for ramp decks. Ramp decks used to suffer from having to draw Rampant Growth when you needed threats. Tron gets the best selection spell in Modern in Ancient Stirrings to avoid this. Even counter magic doesn't save you now that Ulamog is taking your lands away better than you can theirs.
It's too consistent, the threats it powers out are too powerful for that level of consistency and it limits the decks you can play successfully. So annoying.
For a big mana deck, it breaks some traditional rules for ramp decks. Ramp decks used to suffer from having to draw Rampant Growth when you needed threats.
these are all cards Tron *needs* to run in order to have any sort of consistency, or even just to survive the early game. that's 24 cards just to "grease the wheels" and I didn't even include Ancient Stirrings. Basically half the deck is durdly-setup-cards or "keep me alive pls" cards. of course it suffers from dodgy topdecks, and *especially* now that Eye of Ugin is gone, so the land-tutor spells can no longer indirectly get you a threat when topdecked. now the deck is much worse.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I just want to note, I had 3 matches last night where my Turns deck got complimented for the fun and unique lines of play it encouraged. I was shocked, and obviously pleased.
I really hate those decks that take for ever to win the game "I won already.... but not yet... and im not actually sure I won", I dont mind uninteractive combo decks like Ad Nauseam, I do dislike Eggs or Latern.
To the people saying Tron, if you can't beat Tron, you are either refusing to switch from one of the small handful of decks it does well against, or I'm sorry, you might just not be a good player. I have and enjoy the deck, I have a lot of experience with it. Obviously if you refuse to play anything but control or midrange you are going to have a bad time, that type of meta is why Tron exists at all, which btw is a big factor in allowing your decks to be good because they beat the decks that prey on Tron. God hands can happen, t3 Karn, t4 Ugin, t5-6 Eldrazi, but the deck is more likely to not have anything until turn 5, which gives you all kinds of chances to have creatures or something. Discard hurts Tron same as any combo deck. I wish it was busted enough for all of the hate, but I have not been able to play it hardly at all since Eye got hit
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
There's no deck right now that I hate playing against. The closest would have been Eggs. Just kill me already, dude. Don't make me have to wait to see if you whiff. Burn is annoying in large quantities, too but you just add more sideboard stuff.
Black is usually discard.
White is usually locks and restrictions(tap abilities).
Blue is counterspells and land attack like what merfolk does with spreading seas and sea's claim.
Red is straight out destruction.
Green has a little of everything I think.
Trick is to have enough hate to deal with a general scope of decks then SB with a few decks in mind that are problematic to the deck your currently running.If karn is the issue then it's hate against permanents to hit lands or karn itself,sideboard to deal with tron,valakut, timewarp and other decks that rely on certain lands or a certain amount before they can get going.
I think one of the biggest issues is a resolved karn which I feel will get the boot eventually,ugins bad enough but dropping karn is stupid powerful,its the only walker that ends the game on resolution 90% of the time.
Tron itself is only as powerful as the monsters it can cheat in turn three,ugin needs additional ramp to be turn three,same with sundering titan both at eight mana.platinum angel at seven mana can win games but isn't an auto scoop when it resolves like karn.
Tron has been around since the beginning,its karn itself that has given "tron" lands a bad name.
But this is only my two cents.Happy brewing.
Realistically, once Lantern has its namesake card, Ensnaring Bridge, and at least one mill rock, you've lost 99% of the time, even if it doesn't feel like it. Similarly with Tron - turn 3 Tron into Karn is usually game over, but for a lot of players it feels like they still have a chance even though they don't.
That said, I totally understand the sentiment behind it. I just don't like the saying.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Spirits
Some players just like these archetypes. They have their place in the meta, keeping certain decks from dominating metagames. Personally, I enjoy playing unpopular decks. I played Jund most recently over a year ago at FNM and went 5-0, beating 2 Junk decks, a Jund deck, and 2 other decks. I told myself I'd never run it again (despite being a HUGE spike) because it was just so bloody boring (and I'm not from England and have never visited there yet)
I'm currently running Little Kid Abzan and it's boring as hell. But I feel like I gotta do it to soften the meta for Eggs, Amulet Titan, or whatever other deck I like to play.
*Sorry, I forgot that I ran Jund with Madcap Experiment/Platinum Emperion and a very different SB with Blood Moon at a TNM (3 rounds) right after Madcap Experiment came out.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
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Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
People HATE Turns, and I always play it fast and take less time on my Turns than they do. :/
Spirits
The hate towards lantern saddens me; I love slow magic, and consider it a skill knowing when you can no longer win. I find some of the most interesting game states to solve occur while playing with/against lantern, at least personally.
I dont mind playing against turns, I've had some bombastic games against the deck.
On topic: I do hate lantern and will refuse to scoop to the soft lock. Present a clear win con that I can't get out of if you want me to scoop like twin, or don't get salty. Just. Because you chose a deck that durdles for 25 min games doesn't mean I have to sign a match slip for you.
RW prison is a deck that honestly confuses me in its existence. It preys on lower tier creature based strats mainly and I'm almost kind of annoyed when I see it. I mean elves and merfolk aren't putting 3-6 copies in every top 8...wtf did you bring his pile of hate for me to slog through. Ugh.
Tron used to bother me, but big mana is fun so I get it. Messing around with a proxy 12 post list in legacy gave me a new appreciation for the deck.
I think I've posted it before but amulet bloom pre ban was downright atrocious. It's like I brought an intro deck to the pro tour when I sit across from them. Glad to see it slow down a bit. Titans are fine, whatever. Hive mind kills are not cool when you hold priority and I can't even do anything about it.
Ad naus is boarder line for me. Combo is fine, like scapeshift is totally gravy. Ad naus running 8 get out of jail free cards is frustrating. I can beat them, but I don't like feeling like it's a particularly skillful game when it goes down. It's a yeh, drew the wrong half of your deck...sorry man.
Edit for spelling
And Especially decks like Tron, ERldrazi and Lantern.
I think it's insane that Eldrazi gets to play a Sol land that leads into busted creatures.
BG/x BG
You mean, you'd actually let me play it out and kill you with mill rocks? No one actually lets me do that irl, this would make me so happy.
I would rather die to mill rocks, yes.
I scoop to Lantern unless I've got outs, it's all good.
Spirits
For a big mana deck, it breaks some traditional rules for ramp decks. Ramp decks used to suffer from having to draw Rampant Growth when you needed threats. Tron gets the best selection spell in Modern in Ancient Stirrings to avoid this. Even counter magic doesn't save you now that Ulamog is taking your lands away better than you can theirs.
It's too consistent, the threats it powers out are too powerful for that level of consistency and it limits the decks you can play successfully. So annoying.
UBRGrixis Kiki Control
BGUSultai Shadow
GWRBushwhacker Zoo
EDH:
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose
GWU Roon of the Hidden Realm
just FYI:
4x expedition map
4x chromatic sphere
4x chromatic star
4x pyroclasm (or equivalent in another colour)
4x oblivion stone (maybe 3 at a push but it's debatable)
these are all cards Tron *needs* to run in order to have any sort of consistency, or even just to survive the early game. that's 24 cards just to "grease the wheels" and I didn't even include Ancient Stirrings. Basically half the deck is durdly-setup-cards or "keep me alive pls" cards. of course it suffers from dodgy topdecks, and *especially* now that Eye of Ugin is gone, so the land-tutor spells can no longer indirectly get you a threat when topdecked. now the deck is much worse.
Spirits
I just think the mechanic's unfair and Wizards printing Become Immense doesn't give me much hope.