I don't think two in the top 8 is that oppressive.
Wizards feels otherwise.
They only care if it's a continuing issue. Honestly, Dredge making T8 is pretty clearly a case of "everyone thought Dredge was dead and forgot graveyard hate." Then again, Wizards has (re)invented their ban criterion of the dredge graveyard hate subgame, so who knows how they'll handle it. The Affinity subgame apparently isn't a thing, nor is the big mana subgame, so we really don't know how they get from an acceptable subgame to an unacceptable one. Chalk it up to another instance of sloppy banlist managemnet and bad communication.
Looks like Cheeri0s might have missed T8. I'm really not sure how it lost to Dredge in Round 10 unless it was just bad luck. Maybe someone sneaked in though.
I've said before that Dredge is not a broken mechanic. All the free ***** that you get from the graveyard is. Dredge would be unplayable if the payoffs for milling yourself were Lingering Souls and Scrapheap Scrounger instead of Bloodghast and Prized Amalgam. Those things actually cost mana.
But Wizards believes that "the real offender has always been the dredge mechanic itself", so w/e. You've made your bed, now lie in it.
I don't know if they will be concerned with this result. This is Dredge's best showing at a GP to date, but there's been less Dredge online compared to before the ban.
2 Delirium Shadow decks as well. Gerry Thompson and Sam Black are on them. Top tables at GP Vancouver is not looking good for blue and white cards. Very few of those around.
2 Delirium Shadow decks as well. Gerry Thompson and Sam Black are on them. Top tables at GP Vancouver is not looking good for blue and white cards. Very few of those around.
Gee what a surprise. U and W are weak. White mainly because WoTC doesn't know what the hell to do with the color - neutering it's removal (Wraths, no STP, something like Council's Judgment, etc.), thinking its taxing effects and LD is unfun, believing efficient tutors in the color make games too consistent, and putting almost all of the power of the color in Planeswalkers which have a very high bar to see play in Modern. Beyond that, White is probably the most fair color which is another strike against it. Its one saving grace in modern is banned - Stoneforge Mystic. If Lingering Souls didn't exist, I can't imagine how much worse the color would be. Blue on the other hand does have powerful options, but they're all banned, and WoTC believes traditional U effects are unfun and when they do see print are extremely inefficient and overcosted.
On the other hand, creatures are "fun" and moreso when they are 2:1's or 3:1's, efficiently costed, and have insane P/T. On top of that Green is somehow exempted from the idea that having powerful tutors and consistency is bad. So, they get the best creatures from a P/T standpoint, their creatures come with value attached, and Green decks are super consistent (Chord, Traverse, Stirrings, CoCo, Horizon Canopy, etc.). It's ******* stupid. Black well, they just have the best general all-purpose answers - powerful 1 mana discard, abrupt decay, maelstrom pulse, LoTV, Collective Brutality, etc. On top of that it's a good combo color (Ad Naus/Goryo's/Death Shadow/etc.), and Fatal Push is one of the better removal in the format (plus have powerful SB cards like extraction effects, Night of Souls' Betrayal, card draw spells like Painful Truths, etc.). There's also the delve creatures...Red...well burn is good and Bolt may be the best 1 mana "fair" instant in the game. Red also has efficient cards like Terminate, Kolaghan's Command, etc. Plus Red has Blood Moon probably the most powerful hate/hoser card in the format.
In comparison the only thing U has going for it is Snapcaster Mage/Clique/GoST.Queller and Cryptic Command. CC is powerful, but it's also 4 mana and UUU. U's consistency tools are ***** and far worse than Greens. Its best CA engine is either 1) super inconsistent and slow (AV) or 2) 3 color (Esper Charm). Other than that, the options are either inefficient in a broad sense (Think Twice), or just straight inefficient/overcosted. Its traditional answers (counterspells) are weak and extremely conditional (Spell Snare/Leak) or have enormous drawbacks (Deprive/Logic Knot). Blue also can't tutor worth a *****. Its best CA engine is banned (DTT), its best win-con/CA tool is banned (JTMS), its best consistency tools are banned (Preordain/Ponder), and its best control piece is banned (SDT - CounterTop). I suppose U still has Merfolk if that's any consideration.
If we were to have blue up to par with G, we'd need Fact or Fiction (corollary - CoCo), one of the banned cantrips or make a new U Instant - look at top 4, put an instant, sorcery, or card with flash into your hand (or reprint Opt) (corollary - Stirrings), etc.
TLDR; White needs its traditional taxing effects back + a better non-basic hate card than GQ/Tectonic Edge + better removal (what I wouldn't give for a 1WW Instant - Destroy all creatures with CMC 3 or less). Blue just needs some of its cards to come off the banlist (a cantrip, JTMS, & DTT) & a good 2 mana counter (They really missed the boat on a revolt counter (Counter CMC 3 or less revolt Counter target spell)). It doesn't have to be counterspell, but it can't also be on par, worse, or just a bit better than Mana Leak. It has to be baseline better than Mana Leak by some considerable degree. UU is not a trivial cost in a fetch/shock world.
The modern community is really full of whiners.
One tournament and the screams for band are already being seen. I think Wizards bans this much because everyone screams for it.
We don't want any bans Wizard! After the ban oh ban this ban that.
Pathetic!
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Legacy - Reanimator
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
I was at GP Brisbane; one of my friends was on the staff as well.
The room was full of Bant Eldrazi, Tron and Eldrazi-Tron, which isn't much of a surprise. The Australian meta is known for having a lot of Jund and other BGx decks so everyone was expecting those and turned up with decks with good matchups against them. There was also a lot of Burn, but not much of it made it to day 2. Lee Shi Tian and Zen Takahashi were the only two Dredge decks in the room to my knowledge; in my opinion it placed because no-one was specifically expecting it and because the players are both very good.
7 different decks in the top 8 doesn't seem bad to me. People will complain about how there weren't many interactive decks (or in the case of Lantern didn't interact in a way that people consider interacting)but I think that the top eight is sweet.
I made Day 2 on RG Scapeshift.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
I was at GP Brisbane; one of my friends was on the staff as well.
The room was full of Bant Eldrazi, Tron and Eldrazi-Tron, which isn't much of a surprise. The Australian meta is known for having a lot of Jund and other BGx decks so everyone was expecting those and turned up with decks with good matchups against them. There was also a lot of Burn, but not much of it made it to day 2. Lee Shi Tian and Zen Takahashi were the only two Dredge decks in the room to my knowledge; in my opinion it placed because no-one was specifically expecting it and because the players are both very good.
7 different decks in the top 8 doesn't seem bad to me. People will complain about how there weren't many interactive decks (or in the case of Lantern didn't interact in a way that people consider interacting)but I think that the top eight is sweet.
I made Day 2 on RG Scapeshift.
Were Titanshift / RG Breach well represented? It seemed at least that most didn't make it past day 1. Just wanted to know the actual situation on the ground
Were Titanshift / RG Breach well represented? It seemed at least that most didn't make it past day 1. Just wanted to know the actual situation on the ground
There were at least a couple of us that made it to Day 2. I think the prevalence of Tron might have been an issue for a lot of the Valakut players since RG Scapeshift doesn't have much of a way to interact with Tron lands or planeswalkers. I went 9 and 5 before dropping due to an injury sustained earlier in the day and 3 of my losses were to Tron decks.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Any link for gp 2017 modern brisbane for video coverage? I wanna see Timothy Chen play LE
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Modern
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
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Any more of this, and Team Troll will be more than just a name.
I know where you post.
Play what you like, and get good at it.
Spirits
Spirits
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
Any more of this, and Team Troll will be more than just a name.
I know where you post.
2 Thompson 27 Death's Shadow Jund
3 Henly 27 Jund
4 Black 27 Death's Shadow Jund
5 Moshrefi 27 Jund
6 Severson 24 Abzan Company
7 Christensen (Drew) 24 Naya Burn
8 Utter-Leyton 24 Death's Shadow Jund
9 Maynard 24 Eldrazi Tron
31 Hare 24 Jund
32 Fillion 24 Naya Burn
36 Walters 24 Titan Shift
42 Pordes 22 Abzan
54 Penner (Michael) 21 8Rack
68 Nguyen (Thanh) 21 UW Control
70 Lloyd 21 Blue Moon
71 Polak-Rottman 21 Death's Shadow Jund
76 Burkhart 21 Grixis Control
77 Griffen 21 Abzan
79 Hayne 21 Grixis Control
81 St. Pierre (Steven) 21 Bant Eldrazi
88 Babakol 21 Eldrazi & Taxes
89 Froehlich 21 Ad Nauseam
92 Naidu 21 Burn?
96 Sullivan 21 Lantern Control
101 Minor 21 Elves
112 Berdichevsky 21 Ad Nauseam
131 St. Pierre (Brandon) 21 Storm?
134 Liu (Donald) 21 Jeskai Control
161 Pasdernick 21 Dredge
162 Stump 21 Storm
197 Rubin 18 Bant Company
198 McLaren (Shaun) 18 Eldrazi Tron
199 Thibeau 18 Eldrazi Tron
205 Egashira 18 Storm
210 Jones (Matthew) 18 D&T
215 Botelho 18 Abzan Company
222 Espada 18 Bant Eldrazi
229 Boudreau 18 BG Elves
233 Zafra 18 Naya Burn
253 Deleuze 18 Emeria Control
309 Ricci 18 Affinity
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I'm thinking of selling all my copies of Mishra baubles if the deck becomes desired.
RIP (in every sense of the phrase)
Oh well, ban Stinkweed Imp
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
GGT ban seems to be the wrong choice?
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
Wizards feels otherwise.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
They only care if it's a continuing issue. Honestly, Dredge making T8 is pretty clearly a case of "everyone thought Dredge was dead and forgot graveyard hate." Then again, Wizards has (re)invented their ban criterion of the dredge graveyard hate subgame, so who knows how they'll handle it. The Affinity subgame apparently isn't a thing, nor is the big mana subgame, so we really don't know how they get from an acceptable subgame to an unacceptable one. Chalk it up to another instance of sloppy banlist managemnet and bad communication.
Looks like Cheeri0s might have missed T8. I'm really not sure how it lost to Dredge in Round 10 unless it was just bad luck. Maybe someone sneaked in though.
But Wizards believes that "the real offender has always been the dredge mechanic itself", so w/e. You've made your bed, now lie in it.
I don't know if they will be concerned with this result. This is Dredge's best showing at a GP to date, but there's been less Dredge online compared to before the ban.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpvan17/day1-highlights-2017-02-18
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
2 Delirium Shadow decks as well. Gerry Thompson and Sam Black are on them. Top tables at GP Vancouver is not looking good for blue and white cards. Very few of those around.
Gee what a surprise. U and W are weak. White mainly because WoTC doesn't know what the hell to do with the color - neutering it's removal (Wraths, no STP, something like Council's Judgment, etc.), thinking its taxing effects and LD is unfun, believing efficient tutors in the color make games too consistent, and putting almost all of the power of the color in Planeswalkers which have a very high bar to see play in Modern. Beyond that, White is probably the most fair color which is another strike against it. Its one saving grace in modern is banned - Stoneforge Mystic. If Lingering Souls didn't exist, I can't imagine how much worse the color would be. Blue on the other hand does have powerful options, but they're all banned, and WoTC believes traditional U effects are unfun and when they do see print are extremely inefficient and overcosted.
On the other hand, creatures are "fun" and moreso when they are 2:1's or 3:1's, efficiently costed, and have insane P/T. On top of that Green is somehow exempted from the idea that having powerful tutors and consistency is bad. So, they get the best creatures from a P/T standpoint, their creatures come with value attached, and Green decks are super consistent (Chord, Traverse, Stirrings, CoCo, Horizon Canopy, etc.). It's ******* stupid. Black well, they just have the best general all-purpose answers - powerful 1 mana discard, abrupt decay, maelstrom pulse, LoTV, Collective Brutality, etc. On top of that it's a good combo color (Ad Naus/Goryo's/Death Shadow/etc.), and Fatal Push is one of the better removal in the format (plus have powerful SB cards like extraction effects, Night of Souls' Betrayal, card draw spells like Painful Truths, etc.). There's also the delve creatures...Red...well burn is good and Bolt may be the best 1 mana "fair" instant in the game. Red also has efficient cards like Terminate, Kolaghan's Command, etc. Plus Red has Blood Moon probably the most powerful hate/hoser card in the format.
In comparison the only thing U has going for it is Snapcaster Mage/Clique/GoST.Queller and Cryptic Command. CC is powerful, but it's also 4 mana and UUU. U's consistency tools are ***** and far worse than Greens. Its best CA engine is either 1) super inconsistent and slow (AV) or 2) 3 color (Esper Charm). Other than that, the options are either inefficient in a broad sense (Think Twice), or just straight inefficient/overcosted. Its traditional answers (counterspells) are weak and extremely conditional (Spell Snare/Leak) or have enormous drawbacks (Deprive/Logic Knot). Blue also can't tutor worth a *****. Its best CA engine is banned (DTT), its best win-con/CA tool is banned (JTMS), its best consistency tools are banned (Preordain/Ponder), and its best control piece is banned (SDT - CounterTop). I suppose U still has Merfolk if that's any consideration.
If we were to have blue up to par with G, we'd need Fact or Fiction (corollary - CoCo), one of the banned cantrips or make a new U Instant - look at top 4, put an instant, sorcery, or card with flash into your hand (or reprint Opt) (corollary - Stirrings), etc.
TLDR; White needs its traditional taxing effects back + a better non-basic hate card than GQ/Tectonic Edge + better removal (what I wouldn't give for a 1WW Instant - Destroy all creatures with CMC 3 or less). Blue just needs some of its cards to come off the banlist (a cantrip, JTMS, & DTT) & a good 2 mana counter (They really missed the boat on a revolt counter (Counter CMC 3 or less revolt Counter target spell)). It doesn't have to be counterspell, but it can't also be on par, worse, or just a bit better than Mana Leak. It has to be baseline better than Mana Leak by some considerable degree. UU is not a trivial cost in a fetch/shock world.
Isn't it kinda cool that the Death's Shadow Jund deck got no new tools since Eldritch Moon and then now all of a sudden it bursts out?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
One tournament and the screams for band are already being seen. I think Wizards bans this much because everyone screams for it.
We don't want any bans Wizard! After the ban oh ban this ban that.
Pathetic!
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
The room was full of Bant Eldrazi, Tron and Eldrazi-Tron, which isn't much of a surprise. The Australian meta is known for having a lot of Jund and other BGx decks so everyone was expecting those and turned up with decks with good matchups against them. There was also a lot of Burn, but not much of it made it to day 2. Lee Shi Tian and Zen Takahashi were the only two Dredge decks in the room to my knowledge; in my opinion it placed because no-one was specifically expecting it and because the players are both very good.
7 different decks in the top 8 doesn't seem bad to me. People will complain about how there weren't many interactive decks (or in the case of Lantern didn't interact in a way that people consider interacting)but I think that the top eight is sweet.
I made Day 2 on RG Scapeshift.
Were Titanshift / RG Breach well represented? It seemed at least that most didn't make it past day 1. Just wanted to know the actual situation on the ground
There were at least a couple of us that made it to Day 2. I think the prevalence of Tron might have been an issue for a lot of the Valakut players since RG Scapeshift doesn't have much of a way to interact with Tron lands or planeswalkers. I went 9 and 5 before dropping due to an injury sustained earlier in the day and 3 of my losses were to Tron decks.
T8 and Day 1 9-0 decklists are up. Still waiting for day 2 metagame/T32.
T8
Esper Delve + Cheerios
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot active