I think censor and mana leak may end up being a little meta dependant. In the mid and sometimes late game, mana leak can counter things that censor can't. But, censor is enough to counter the super mana tight plays encountered in the first few critical turns of the game and possibly cycle into a win condition as a conditional counter becomes less relevant. And the fact that the cycling is 1 let's it be way better in the scenario of basically redrawing with it.
I look at censor a little differently I guess. I see it as a 1 mana instant speed cantrip that can occasionally counter spells. I replaced serum visions in my non delver builds, and it's been fine. After all, all your loosing is scry 2, otherwise they do the same thing. I wouldn't replace any actual spells for it, however.
Had quite a long conversation about this on another thread. I, at least originally, was of the mind that it's bad. However, the cycle ability I now believe makes it at least viable, if not good. Having late game utility on a situational counter shouldn't be underestimated.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
It doesn't cost much - I mean the $ price tag. Would get two at SCG, so that I could test. Seems good as an extra cycler / conditional counterspell in a blue deck, it's just a bit hard to find room for it.
I still think this is a good card. It's basically never a dead draw and goes a long way towards control mana efficiency. You also only need to hit something once and opponents will often play around it. I expect 1-2 in many blue-based controlling decks over the coming months.
Censor is more versatile, but less powerful than straight up Mana Leak. It is a card I would consider for a flex slot in addition to the counter/draw package, but not in replacement of.
I still think this is a good card. It's basically never a dead draw and goes a long way towards control mana efficiency. You also only need to hit something once and opponents will often play around it. I expect 1-2 in many blue-based controlling decks over the coming months.
I've personally played 2 in place of Mana Leak in my Grixis Death's Shadow deck since it came out. I've said it in other threads so I'll say it here too - it's a medium strong card but has some very neat interactions with Delve cards as well as with Snapcaster Mage. Also, it forces your opponents to play off curve which can be good in its own right.
Viewing it as a cantrip that sometimes can counter is a good way to look at it.
I still think this is a good card. It's basically never a dead draw and goes a long way towards control mana efficiency. You also only need to hit something once and opponents will often play around it. I expect 1-2 in many blue-based controlling decks over the coming months.
Agreed on that.
I used to be in Legacy before going to Modern. .. over there if someone get's Dazed. They would often try play around it. Well, Censor isn't on the same power level as daze.. but the good thing is it can always be cycled mid-late game when the opponent already has plenty of mana.
The card has been out 24 hours, and we have a result already on MTGO
Is this a fluke
Of course you need more time to see if it's really good or just a fluke. People are always excited to play with new cards. Sram 5-0ed a few Leagues after AER, but look where it is today.
I feel it's right to think of it mainly as an instant-speed cantrip with a soft counter B-side, instead of the other way around. The thing is, Grixis wants Thought Scour to feed Tasigur, and most other blue control decks have a combo element (like As Foretold + Ancestral Vision in the decklist provided), so Serum Visions is the cantrip of choice in those decks. You can make room for Censor, but it won't be option #1. It might be option #1 in a flash deck where all your spells are instants and all your creatures have flash (Snaps, Clique, Restoration Angel), but that kind of deck hasn't been good in a while.
There's some skill involved when playing against this card. Bad opponents will forever live in fear of getting Force Spiked and delay their plays by 1 turn, which you can capitalize on. Good opponents will know when to run out spells and eat the Censor - it feels really bad to be 1 mana short of resolving a spell, but objectively speaking, if you spend 2 mana on a spell and your opponent Censors it, you both traded 2 mana and a card. It's no different than if your opponent Mana Leaked it or, I don't know, Terminated it if it was a creature.
Overall I'm ambivalent on that card, but I would lean towards it being playable rather than not playable. I don't expect it to be a 4-of though. That might hurt its effectiveness as a soft counter, since if decks only play Censor as a 2-of, the answer to "should I play around a Censor that my opponent might or might not have?" is "probably not".
I still think this is a good card. It's basically never a dead draw and goes a long way towards control mana efficiency. You also only need to hit something once and opponents will often play around it. I expect 1-2 in many blue-based controlling decks over the coming months.
As soon as the card was legal we already got a 5-0 list with 2 of them so you are probably right. I think this card is very good and plan to test 2-3 in grixis control
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Yeah, i was thinking I could try cutting cantrips in non-ancestral grixis control for 3-4 of this, say 2 serum and a scour, and maybe a tasigur at that pout to get to 4.
Yeah, i was thinking I could try cutting cantrips in non-ancestral grixis control for 3-4 of this, say 2 serum and a scour, and maybe a tasigur at that pout to get to 4.
Do NOT cut scour in grixis as that card does way too much for the deck to cut. I would cut 1-2 serums and 1 countersquall.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
I'm not sure it's better than Mana Leak, just different. Early game, Censor is better. You get a counter at a point in the game where there's a good chance your opponent won't have the mana to pay to stop it and it also doubles as draw. Later in the game it's less likely that they won't be able to pay the cost but it's still card advantage.
Censor would be great to have in your opening hand just for the utility. Mana Leak might be a dead card early in the game but is more likely to work when you really need a key counter later in the game. Can't pick either one, both have their merits.
It's a huge tempo loss sitting there trying to keep two mana open to stop your opponent from playing on curve. It's easy to play around. The reason cards like daze are so good is because you can tap out to deploy threats that really pressure your opponent to cast their answer spells on curve. Force spike doesn't see any play because it's still a tempo loss by forcing you to keep mana open, sometimes for no value at all.
Paying one mana to draw a card is also tempo loss. It would be better to use a one mana spell to remove a creature than countering it.
Remand is just a better card because it gets better in the late game, while also cycling. I would definitely run remand over Censor. In fact, I would run just about any other instant speed two-mana spell in place of censor.
Looking at the list, it should be noted that he's running As Foretold. This may have some bearing on the card choices.
That being said, it didn't take much for Censor to start showing up. The card has been out 24 hours, and we have a result already on MTGO.
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Gideon Jura
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Ancestral Vision
1 Restore Balance
4 Serum Visions
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Censor
3 Cryptic Command
1 Negate
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
1 Engineered Explosives
3 As Foretold
2 Detention Sphere
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
2 Mystic Gate
3 Plains
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Tolaria West
60 Cards
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Dispel
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Meddling Mage
3 Rest in Peace
1 Spell Queller
1 Stony Silence
1 Vendilion Clique
Censor seems to take the place of mana leak in the list, and at least in this context, seems to have worked.
Is this a fluke, or is Censor a solid upgrade over Mana Leak?
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I've personally played 2 in place of Mana Leak in my Grixis Death's Shadow deck since it came out. I've said it in other threads so I'll say it here too - it's a medium strong card but has some very neat interactions with Delve cards as well as with Snapcaster Mage. Also, it forces your opponents to play off curve which can be good in its own right.
Viewing it as a cantrip that sometimes can counter is a good way to look at it.
Agreed on that.
I used to be in Legacy before going to Modern. .. over there if someone get's Dazed. They would often try play around it. Well, Censor isn't on the same power level as daze.. but the good thing is it can always be cycled mid-late game when the opponent already has plenty of mana.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I feel it's right to think of it mainly as an instant-speed cantrip with a soft counter B-side, instead of the other way around. The thing is, Grixis wants Thought Scour to feed Tasigur, and most other blue control decks have a combo element (like As Foretold + Ancestral Vision in the decklist provided), so Serum Visions is the cantrip of choice in those decks. You can make room for Censor, but it won't be option #1. It might be option #1 in a flash deck where all your spells are instants and all your creatures have flash (Snaps, Clique, Restoration Angel), but that kind of deck hasn't been good in a while.
There's some skill involved when playing against this card. Bad opponents will forever live in fear of getting Force Spiked and delay their plays by 1 turn, which you can capitalize on. Good opponents will know when to run out spells and eat the Censor - it feels really bad to be 1 mana short of resolving a spell, but objectively speaking, if you spend 2 mana on a spell and your opponent Censors it, you both traded 2 mana and a card. It's no different than if your opponent Mana Leaked it or, I don't know, Terminated it if it was a creature.
Overall I'm ambivalent on that card, but I would lean towards it being playable rather than not playable. I don't expect it to be a 4-of though. That might hurt its effectiveness as a soft counter, since if decks only play Censor as a 2-of, the answer to "should I play around a Censor that my opponent might or might not have?" is "probably not".
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
As soon as the card was legal we already got a 5-0 list with 2 of them so you are probably right. I think this card is very good and plan to test 2-3 in grixis control
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Do NOT cut scour in grixis as that card does way too much for the deck to cut. I would cut 1-2 serums and 1 countersquall.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Censor would be great to have in your opening hand just for the utility. Mana Leak might be a dead card early in the game but is more likely to work when you really need a key counter later in the game. Can't pick either one, both have their merits.
Paying one mana to draw a card is also tempo loss. It would be better to use a one mana spell to remove a creature than countering it.
Remand is just a better card because it gets better in the late game, while also cycling. I would definitely run remand over Censor. In fact, I would run just about any other instant speed two-mana spell in place of censor.
Looking at the list, it should be noted that he's running As Foretold. This may have some bearing on the card choices.