So there's another thread in the main forum right now asking about netdecking, and part of my reply on deck building ventured into manabase construction. I don't know how observant everyone has been, but if you look through the T1, T2, and T3 lists right now, the best performing decks have something in common: They all take less damage from their lands.
To start with, the lists as they currently stand take about 10, 12, and 14 points of damage for T1, T2, and T3 respectively. And that includes Grixis Shadow in T1, which due to the low number of average decks, and high land damage that deck takes, skews the T1 number sharply upwards (it represents over half the self damage in T1).
So this brings up a lot of questions in my mind.
The first question that I think we should ask is: Are fetch/shock manabases what we should still consider the best performing default manabase in the format? If you asked me this question before I had the numbers, I would have said yes... but now I'm not so sure. Just off observation it feels like half the decks in the format are now running non traditional manabases (assuming fetch/shock is traditional), and I think they've got the right idea. What do other people think? I feel that by the numbers alone, a default manabase of 8 fetch, 5 shocks already puts you at 18 damage from your lands which is T3 territory... unless you have a real good reason to be including that much pain in the mana.
So that leads to the second question... fetch/shock is superb at 3 color decks, but 3 color decks are losing favor. The higher you go in the tiers, the fewer colors decks are running on average. Is it right to go 2 colors these days? I know that just in my own decks, which tend to be Junk or Jund brews, I've cut back in recent months to just GB and seen my match win rate go up dramatically, largely on the back of saving 6 or so points of life every game. I've noticed that 2 color decks with black seem to be especially advantaged because Urbog can save many fetches worth of damage.
What do other people think? Have I made a convincing enough case here?
I have always thought that low curve decks running the fastlands know whats up.
2 color decks have always been my thing, as often, especially nowadays, that third color isnt worth the 6-8 extra points of damage youll be taking in return.
I think fastlands and checklands are a sorely undervalued pool that people dont draw from often enough.
I have always thought that low curve decks running the fastlands know whats up.
2 color decks have always been my thing, as often, especially nowadays, that third color isnt worth the 6-8 extra points of damage youll be taking in return.
I think fastlands and checklands are a sorely undervalued pool that people dont draw from often enough.
Bleh, made a post earlier but the site was in read only mode so I lost it.
I agree with you on fastlands, but fastlands alone can't create a solid manabase. I'm starting to come around to the opinion that painlands are superior these days. You generally only take 1-2 points of damage over a game from even 8 pain lands in your deck, and they ETB untapped. A painland/fastland manabase has a much lower average/typical amount of life paid per game for your mana. It's weaker in a 3 color deck, but in 2 color it's quite strong. The main question I would be left with is, what else do you run?
We should probably start the analysis with some rankings for a pain index. Here's how I'm counting it:
Shocklands = 2
Fetchlands = 1
Painlands = 1
City of Brass/Mana Confluence/Horizon Canopy/anything else similar = 2
Right now here's the manabase for the GB deck I play:
So we could rebuild that:
2 Twilight Mire
3 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Treetop Village
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Llanowar Wastes
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
The first manabase, which I'm using now has 19 green, 19 black, and a pain index of 14, it also has an effective 10 Forest and 6 Swamp. The second manabase has 18 green and 18 black with a pain index of 9 and an effective 7 Forest 7 Swamp. 18 vs 19 is small (especially given the extra Twilight Mire), and with a reduction from 14 to 9 you're basically going to have 1/3 less damage per game, and the basic count is close at 14 vs 16... though not quite where you would ideally want it to be.
You could probably do something similar for any 2 color manabase. The default fetch/shock definitely seems bad to me right now. If I get some time I'll probably try to quantify this a bit better.
Too few fetchlands in your 2-colour mana base and Blood Moon bites you in the butt. (There are also side drawbacks like no gravy with Tireless Tracker, your Knight of the Reliquary not getting fatter, not being able to trigger Landfall on Searing Blaze at instant speed, not enough Delve for Logic Knot, Ramunap Excavator looking worthless...but they're individual 2-colour decks' concerns.)
At any rate, whenever I build a general goodstuffs 2-colour mana base, I pretty much include only fetchlands, fastlands, on-colour manlands, filter lands, utility lands that produce colourless or single-colour mana, basics, and a shockland or two--not painlands. I often find that the second fetch can be cracked for a basic in 2-colour decks, making them inflict only 1 damage over the course of a game, as opposed to painlands' 2 or more. (Yup, I hated using painlands in Burn before enemy-coloured fastlands were released, although I felt they were a necessary evil because at least they were less painful than the first fetch for a shock. Note that Burn values having each land tap for red mana much more highly than, say, BG Midrange values having each land tap for black mana.)
Too few fetchlands in your 2-colour mana base and Blood Moon bites you in the butt.
Yet, in a 2 color manabase, outside of the 4 fetches that comprise your main two colors, any additional fetch is only as good as a basic for the purposes of Blood Moon protection. And, it's already a higher level of protection than the typical 3 color deck.
At any rate, whenever I build a general goodstuffs 2-colour mana base, I pretty much include only fetchlands, fastlands, on-colour manlands, filter lands, utility lands that produce colourless or single-colour mana, basics, and a shockland or two--not painlands. I often find that the second fetch can be cracked for a basic in 2-colour decks, making them inflict only 1 damage over the course of a game, as opposed to painlands' 2 or more.
This is going to depend heavily on the other cards in the deck. For example if you have both Liliana of the Veil and Courser of Kruphix in hand, 2 basics renders one of them uncastable, unless you have a filter or an Urborg. In the case of black decks though, you ideally don't even want to crack additional fetches at all, you want Urborg to turn them into mana sources, and to then filter that mana into the colors you need.
It depends on how much my deck is afraid of Blood Moon... my UW is not afraid of moon because it has plenty of basic plains, and few cards use blue - only has 4 fetch. My BG aggro will be crippled if a moon is able to land, so it uses 8 fetch minimum.. the fetch lands also help trigger revolt for Narnam Renegade - I use Kalitas and Collective Brutality to help offset the lifeloss from shock / fetch.
For example if you have both Liliana of the Veil and Courser of Kruphix in hand, 2 basics renders one of them uncastable, unless you have a filter or an Urborg.
If you have a Swamp and a Forest, any B/G dual lets you cast either of them. Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning?
In general I think you're right about painful manabases, but I am not a fan of pain lands nor filter lands. Filter lands in particular can be very awkward, and I don't think I've ever seen a deck where it would be correct to run more than one.
To start with, the lists as they currently stand take about 10, 12, and 14 points of damage for T1, T2, and T3 respectively. And that includes Grixis Shadow in T1, which due to the low number of average decks, and high land damage that deck takes, skews the T1 number sharply upwards (it represents over half the self damage in T1).
So this brings up a lot of questions in my mind.
The first question that I think we should ask is: Are fetch/shock manabases what we should still consider the best performing default manabase in the format? If you asked me this question before I had the numbers, I would have said yes... but now I'm not so sure. Just off observation it feels like half the decks in the format are now running non traditional manabases (assuming fetch/shock is traditional), and I think they've got the right idea. What do other people think? I feel that by the numbers alone, a default manabase of 8 fetch, 5 shocks already puts you at 18 damage from your lands which is T3 territory... unless you have a real good reason to be including that much pain in the mana.
So that leads to the second question... fetch/shock is superb at 3 color decks, but 3 color decks are losing favor. The higher you go in the tiers, the fewer colors decks are running on average. Is it right to go 2 colors these days? I know that just in my own decks, which tend to be Junk or Jund brews, I've cut back in recent months to just GB and seen my match win rate go up dramatically, largely on the back of saving 6 or so points of life every game. I've noticed that 2 color decks with black seem to be especially advantaged because Urbog can save many fetches worth of damage.
What do other people think? Have I made a convincing enough case here?
2 color decks have always been my thing, as often, especially nowadays, that third color isnt worth the 6-8 extra points of damage youll be taking in return.
I think fastlands and checklands are a sorely undervalued pool that people dont draw from often enough.
Bleh, made a post earlier but the site was in read only mode so I lost it.
I agree with you on fastlands, but fastlands alone can't create a solid manabase. I'm starting to come around to the opinion that painlands are superior these days. You generally only take 1-2 points of damage over a game from even 8 pain lands in your deck, and they ETB untapped. A painland/fastland manabase has a much lower average/typical amount of life paid per game for your mana. It's weaker in a 3 color deck, but in 2 color it's quite strong. The main question I would be left with is, what else do you run?
We should probably start the analysis with some rankings for a pain index. Here's how I'm counting it:
Shocklands = 2
Fetchlands = 1
Painlands = 1
City of Brass/Mana Confluence/Horizon Canopy/anything else similar = 2
Right now here's the manabase for the GB deck I play:
4 Windswept Heath
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Forest
2 Swamp
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Treetop Village
1 Twilight Mire
So we could rebuild that:
2 Twilight Mire
3 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Treetop Village
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Llanowar Wastes
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
The first manabase, which I'm using now has 19 green, 19 black, and a pain index of 14, it also has an effective 10 Forest and 6 Swamp. The second manabase has 18 green and 18 black with a pain index of 9 and an effective 7 Forest 7 Swamp. 18 vs 19 is small (especially given the extra Twilight Mire), and with a reduction from 14 to 9 you're basically going to have 1/3 less damage per game, and the basic count is close at 14 vs 16... though not quite where you would ideally want it to be.
You could probably do something similar for any 2 color manabase. The default fetch/shock definitely seems bad to me right now. If I get some time I'll probably try to quantify this a bit better.
At any rate, whenever I build a general goodstuffs 2-colour mana base, I pretty much include only fetchlands, fastlands, on-colour manlands, filter lands, utility lands that produce colourless or single-colour mana, basics, and a shockland or two--not painlands. I often find that the second fetch can be cracked for a basic in 2-colour decks, making them inflict only 1 damage over the course of a game, as opposed to painlands' 2 or more. (Yup, I hated using painlands in Burn before enemy-coloured fastlands were released, although I felt they were a necessary evil because at least they were less painful than the first fetch for a shock. Note that Burn values having each land tap for red mana much more highly than, say, BG Midrange values having each land tap for black mana.)
Yet, in a 2 color manabase, outside of the 4 fetches that comprise your main two colors, any additional fetch is only as good as a basic for the purposes of Blood Moon protection. And, it's already a higher level of protection than the typical 3 color deck.
This is going to depend heavily on the other cards in the deck. For example if you have both Liliana of the Veil and Courser of Kruphix in hand, 2 basics renders one of them uncastable, unless you have a filter or an Urborg. In the case of black decks though, you ideally don't even want to crack additional fetches at all, you want Urborg to turn them into mana sources, and to then filter that mana into the colors you need.
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In general I think you're right about painful manabases, but I am not a fan of pain lands nor filter lands. Filter lands in particular can be very awkward, and I don't think I've ever seen a deck where it would be correct to run more than one.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall