My fear in all these case of unbans or new powerful mythics is not the power-level or price of the card per-se, but that it would make even more tier-1 expensive. The ultimate horror is when all tier-1 are expensive, making Modern even more pay-to-win. (Or more precisely for nit-pickers, pay-to-not-be-severely-disadvantaged.)
The existence of decks like storm or burn were a balm in the current meta, making somewhat affordable decks playable without shame. The existence of Jund deck and traverse shadow, with the liliana of the vail and tarmogoyf represent the opposite end of the spectrum. UW control unfortunately, falls in the expensive end, with colonade, Command, Snapcaster and now Jace.
The way Wizards chooses to handle reprints by sometimes pushing staple rares to mythics (staple commons to uncommons, too) just goes with the trend. So, to me the unban of JtMS fuel the fear that top-tier blue deck would require a super-expensive card.
My fear in all these case of unbans or new powerful mythics is not the power-level or price of the card per-se, but that it would make even more tier-1 expensive. The ultimate horror is when all tier-1 are expensive, making Modern even more pay-to-win. (Or more precisely for nit-pickers, pay-to-not-be-severely-disadvantaged.)
The existence of decks like storm or burn were a balm in the current meta, making somewhat affordable decks playable without shame. The existence of Jund deck and traverse shadow, with the liliana of the vail and tarmogoyf represent the opposite end of the spectrum. UW control unfortunately, falls in the expensive end, with colonade, Command, Snapcaster and now Jace.
The way Wizards chooses to handle reprints by sometimes pushing staple rares to mythics (staple commons to uncommons, too) just goes with the trend. So, to me the unban of JtMS fuel the fear that top-tier blue deck would require a super-expensive card.
Magic has always been an expensive hobby. Any hobby... sport.. or like activity could technically be considered "pay-to-not-be-severely-disadvantaged" if you stare at it long enough.
My fear in all these case of unbans or new powerful mythics is not the power-level or price of the card per-se, but that it would make even more tier-1 expensive. The ultimate horror is when all tier-1 are expensive, making Modern even more pay-to-win. (Or more precisely for nit-pickers, pay-to-not-be-severely-disadvantaged.)
The existence of decks like storm or burn were a balm in the current meta, making somewhat affordable decks playable without shame. The existence of Jund deck and traverse shadow, with the liliana of the vail and tarmogoyf represent the opposite end of the spectrum. UW control unfortunately, falls in the expensive end, with colonade, Command, Snapcaster and now Jace.
The way Wizards chooses to handle reprints by sometimes pushing staple rares to mythics (staple commons to uncommons, too) just goes with the trend. So, to me the unban of JtMS fuel the fear that top-tier blue deck would require a super-expensive card.
"Pay to win" is a terrible way to view TCGs. Cards cost money, thats just the world we live in. My problem is that with Jeskai or UW already fully built, I gotta pay another $200-$400 because a single card got unbanned that has never been in the format? Imo a card shouldn't exceed $100 that isn't on the reserved list, and Wizards has been trying hard over the years to address that. A few years ago, you couldn't play green without Tarmogoyf, and I don't want that to happen with Jace and Blue all over again
My fear in all these case of unbans or new powerful mythics is not the power-level or price of the card per-se, but that it would make even more tier-1 expensive. The ultimate horror is when all tier-1 are expensive, making Modern even more pay-to-win. (Or more precisely for nit-pickers, pay-to-not-be-severely-disadvantaged.)
The existence of decks like storm or burn were a balm in the current meta, making somewhat affordable decks playable without shame. The existence of Jund deck and traverse shadow, with the liliana of the vail and tarmogoyf represent the opposite end of the spectrum. UW control unfortunately, falls in the expensive end, with colonade, Command, Snapcaster and now Jace.
The way Wizards chooses to handle reprints by sometimes pushing staple rares to mythics (staple commons to uncommons, too) just goes with the trend. So, to me the unban of JtMS fuel the fear that top-tier blue deck would require a super-expensive card.
"Pay to win" is a terrible way to view TCGs. Cards cost money, thats just the world we live in. My problem is that with Jeskai or UW already fully built, I gotta pay another $200-$400? Imo a card shouldn't exceed $100 that isn't on the reserved list, and Wizards has been trying hard over the years to address that. A few years ago, you couldn't play green without Tarmogoyf, and I don't want that to happen with Jace all over again
Jace was over 100$ when it was in standard/extended.
The price will probably normalize a little bit after people stop freaking out.
I don't think Wizards agrees with the assertion that Modern is filled with interactive decks. There are so many people claiming that Jace doesn't matter because Modern is so fast.
If that's the case, then Wizards clearly feels that Modern needs to slow down. The only way to slow down a format is to empower blue permission. Reprinting Brainstorm or unbanning Ponder is out, for obvious reasons. The only way Wizards has right now to accomplish that mission is to unban Jace. I personally don't believe that's going to be enough, which is why I believe Daze and Counterspell will see print in Dominaria.
I don't think Wizards agrees with the assertion that Modern is filled with interactive decks. There are so many people claiming that Jace doesn't matter because Modern is so fast.
If that's the case, then Wizards clearly feels that Modern needs to slow down. The only way to slow down a format is to empower blue permission. Reprinting Brainstorm or unbanning Ponder is out, for obvious reasons. The only way Wizards has right now to accomplish that mission is to unban Jace. I personally don't believe that's going to be enough, which is why I believe Daze and Counterspell will see print in Dominaria.
Daze reprint but Preordain too good "for obvious reasons? wut
Modern too fast? Lantern Control and Mardu Pyromancer in the finals of the PT. Where where your fast combo decks? How about the last 4 big torunies? Where are the fast combo decks?
I don't think Wizards agrees with the assertion that Modern is filled with interactive decks. There are so many people claiming that Jace doesn't matter because Modern is so fast.
If that's the case, then Wizards clearly feels that Modern needs to slow down. The only way to slow down a format is to empower blue permission. Reprinting Brainstorm or unbanning Ponder is out, for obvious reasons. The only way Wizards has right now to accomplish that mission is to unban Jace. I personally don't believe that's going to be enough, which is why I believe Daze and Counterspell will see print in Dominaria.
Daze reprint but Preordain too good "for obvious reasons? Modern too fast? Lantern Control and Mardu Pyromancer in the finals of the PT. Where where your fast combo decks? How about the last 4 big torunies? Where are the fast combo decks?
PT is split between limited and constructed. You really can't get any good meta-considerations by looking at what decks top 8ed.
27-28 Point Modern Decks
- Mardu Pyromancer
- Traverse Deathshadow
- UW control
- Eldrazi Tron
24-26 point Modern Decks
- Abzan
- UW control
- Boggles
- Traverse Deathshadow
- Lantern Control
- Grixis Control
- U/R Gift Storm
- Tron
- Affinity
- Grixis Shadow
- Tron
- Eldrazi Tron
- Burn
- W/B Eldrazi
- 5 color humans
- Hallowed One
The vast majority of the decks that did well were fast. Only 5 control decks where present.
I don't think Wizards agrees with the assertion that Modern is filled with interactive decks. There are so many people claiming that Jace doesn't matter because Modern is so fast.
If that's the case, then Wizards clearly feels that Modern needs to slow down. The only way to slow down a format is to empower blue permission. Reprinting Brainstorm or unbanning Ponder is out, for obvious reasons. The only way Wizards has right now to accomplish that mission is to unban Jace. I personally don't believe that's going to be enough, which is why I believe Daze and Counterspell will see print in Dominaria.
Daze reprint but Preordain too good "for obvious reasons? Modern too fast? Lantern Control and Mardu Pyromancer in the finals of the PT. Where where your fast combo decks? How about the last 4 big torunies? Where are the fast combo decks?
PT is split between limited and constructed. You really can't get any good meta-considerations by looking at what decks top 8ed.
27-28 Point Modern Decks
- Mardu Pyromancer
- Traverse Deathshadow
- UW control
- Eldrazi Tron
24-26 point Modern Decks
- Abzan
- UW control
- Boggles
- Traverse Deathshadow
- Lantern Control
- Grixis Control
- U/R Gift Storm
- Tron
- Affinity
- Grixis Shadow
- Tron
- Eldrazi Tron
- Burn
- W/B Eldrazi
- 5 color humans
- Hallowed One
The vast majority of the decks that did well were fast. Only 5 control decks where present.
What about SCG Columbus when the finals were 2 conrol decks and the majority were on Death's Shadow?
My fear in all these case of unbans or new powerful mythics is not the power-level or price of the card per-se, but that it would make even more tier-1 expensive. The ultimate horror is when all tier-1 are expensive, making Modern even more pay-to-win. (Or more precisely for nit-pickers, pay-to-not-be-severely-disadvantaged.)
The existence of decks like storm or burn were a balm in the current meta, making somewhat affordable decks playable without shame. The existence of Jund deck and traverse shadow, with the liliana of the vail and tarmogoyf represent the opposite end of the spectrum. UW control unfortunately, falls in the expensive end, with colonade, Command, Snapcaster and now Jace.
The way Wizards chooses to handle reprints by sometimes pushing staple rares to mythics (staple commons to uncommons, too) just goes with the trend. So, to me the unban of JtMS fuel the fear that top-tier blue deck would require a super-expensive card.
Magic has always been an expensive hobby. Any hobby... sport.. or like activity could technically be considered "pay-to-not-be-severely-disadvantaged" if you stare at it long enough.
As Someone who has been playing magic for nearly 20 years I can tell you that magic has not always been an "expensive hobby", and as someone who plays lots of sports calling "buying basic sports equipment that's actually needed to play" "pay-to-not-be-severely-disadvantaged" is disingenuous at best.
Also lots of the why Jace won't be a problem in Modern arguments remind me of the Jace won't be a problem in standard Arguments.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
I don't think Wizards agrees with the assertion that Modern is filled with interactive decks. There are so many people claiming that Jace doesn't matter because Modern is so fast.
If that's the case, then Wizards clearly feels that Modern needs to slow down. The only way to slow down a format is to empower blue permission. Reprinting Brainstorm or unbanning Ponder is out, for obvious reasons. The only way Wizards has right now to accomplish that mission is to unban Jace. I personally don't believe that's going to be enough, which is why I believe Daze and Counterspell will see print in Dominaria.
Daze reprint but Preordain too good "for obvious reasons? Modern too fast? Lantern Control and Mardu Pyromancer in the finals of the PT. Where where your fast combo decks? How about the last 4 big torunies? Where are the fast combo decks?
PT is split between limited and constructed. You really can't get any good meta-considerations by looking at what decks top 8ed.
27-28 Point Modern Decks
- Mardu Pyromancer
- Traverse Deathshadow
- UW control
- Eldrazi Tron
24-26 point Modern Decks
- Abzan
- UW control
- Boggles
- Traverse Deathshadow
- Lantern Control
- Grixis Control
- U/R Gift Storm
- Tron
- Affinity
- Grixis Shadow
- Tron
- Eldrazi Tron
- Burn
- W/B Eldrazi
- 5 color humans
- Hallowed One
The vast majority of the decks that did well were fast. Only 5 control decks where present.
What about SCG Columbus when the finals were 2 conrol decks and the majority were on Death's Shadow?
a few things:
1) Death Shadow is not a control deck. I would actually put it in the "fast" category. It can achieve a win as early as turn 3 (though rare).
2) Control typically does very well vs those type of creature based fast decks.
I don't think Wizards agrees with the assertion that Modern is filled with interactive decks. There are so many people claiming that Jace doesn't matter because Modern is so fast.
If that's the case, then Wizards clearly feels that Modern needs to slow down. The only way to slow down a format is to empower blue permission. Reprinting Brainstorm or unbanning Ponder is out, for obvious reasons. The only way Wizards has right now to accomplish that mission is to unban Jace. I personally don't believe that's going to be enough, which is why I believe Daze and Counterspell will see print in Dominaria.
Daze reprint but Preordain too good "for obvious reasons? Modern too fast? Lantern Control and Mardu Pyromancer in the finals of the PT. Where where your fast combo decks? How about the last 4 big torunies? Where are the fast combo decks?
PT is split between limited and constructed. You really can't get any good meta-considerations by looking at what decks top 8ed.
27-28 Point Modern Decks
- Mardu Pyromancer
- Traverse Deathshadow
- UW control
- Eldrazi Tron
24-26 point Modern Decks
- Abzan
- UW control
- Boggles
- Traverse Deathshadow
- Lantern Control
- Grixis Control
- U/R Gift Storm
- Tron
- Affinity
- Grixis Shadow
- Tron
- Eldrazi Tron
- Burn
- W/B Eldrazi
- 5 color humans
- Hallowed One
The vast majority of the decks that did well were fast. Only 5 control decks where present.
What about SCG Columbus when the finals were 2 conrol decks and the majority were on Death's Shadow?
a few things:
1) Death Shadow is not a control deck. I would actually put it in the "fast" category. It can achieve a win as early as turn 3 (though rare).
2) Control typically does very well vs those type of creature based fast decks.
What I understand what you are saying is that Modern is too fast because, without any interaction or disruption, there are decks that can win on turn 3 and 4. And you claim this is bad and why we need Daze? Interesting
Daze reprint but Preordain too good "for obvious reasons? Modern too fast? Lantern Control and Mardu Pyromancer in the finals of the PT. Where where your fast combo decks? How about the last 4 big torunies? Where are the fast combo decks?
PT is split between limited and constructed. You really can't get any good meta-considerations by looking at what decks top 8ed.
27-28 Point Modern Decks
- Mardu Pyromancer
- Traverse Deathshadow
- UW control
- Eldrazi Tron
24-26 point Modern Decks
- Abzan
- UW control
- Boggles
- Traverse Deathshadow
- Lantern Control
- Grixis Control
- U/R Gift Storm
- Tron
- Affinity
- Grixis Shadow
- Tron
- Eldrazi Tron
- Burn
- W/B Eldrazi
- 5 color humans
- Hallowed One
The vast majority of the decks that did well were fast. Only 5 control decks where present.
What about SCG Columbus when the finals were 2 conrol decks and the majority were on Death's Shadow?
a few things:
1) Death Shadow is not a control deck. I would actually put it in the "fast" category. It can achieve a win as early as turn 3 (though rare).
2) Control typically does very well vs those type of creature based fast decks.
What I understand what you are saying is that Modern is too fast because, without any interaction or disruption, there are decks that can win on turn 3 and 4. And you claim this is bad and why we need Daze? Interesting
a) I never said modern was too fast.
b) the entire debate started because someone mentioned perhaps wizards wanted to slow down the format a bit. Control decks have lower conversion rates in comparison to other decks. Moreover UWx control decks were more likely to go to time. Jace in theory helps with that.
Yeah but speed is not necessarily why traditional control decks dont do well in Modern (assuming they don't)
Control decks do well enough. Just because conversion rates are lower does not mean it is bad.
In truth nothing could have been unbanned and the format would still be fine.
The point I was trying to make - blue decks still under perform in relation to the entire meta.
Not having inevitability is one of the reasons why. I would argue that's also why UWx decks were more likely to go to time.
Yeah but speed is not necessarily why traditional control decks dont do well in Modern (assuming they don't)
Control decks do well enough. Just because conversion rates are lower does not mean it is bad.
In truth nothing could have been unbanned and the format would still be fine.
The point I was trying to make - blue decks still under perform in relation to the entire meta.
Not having inevitability is one of the reasons why. I would argue that's also why UWx decks were more likely to go to time.
I understand that, but the point I was concerned about is having Daze and Coutnerspell in Modern after Jace unbanning
Yeah but speed is not necessarily why traditional control decks dont do well in Modern (assuming they don't)
Control decks do well enough. Just because conversion rates are lower does not mean it is bad.
In truth nothing could have been unbanned and the format would still be fine.
The point I was trying to make - blue decks still under perform in relation to the entire meta.
Not having inevitability is one of the reasons why. I would argue that's also why UWx decks were more likely to go to time.
I understand that, but the point I was concerned about is having Daze and Coutnerspell in Modern after Jace unbanning
Oh.... my bad. Yea I don't think we will ever ever ever get daze or counterspell in modern.
(did I mention ever enough times?). Counter-spell and daze would be too good for modern. Even more so than Jace.
PS: I suppose I could see a world where counter-spell would be fine for modern (and I only say that because logic knot is a close equivalent): but not daze. Free spells are very risky.
I always considered midrange to be modern's version of control, just as midrange/tempo play the aggro role in legacy due to a lack of viable linear creature decks (I miss you goblins...). Discard spells, removal, grindy game ending in a big finisher. It's just proactive control. I mean modern has virtually every archetype near the top except draw-go control, which still exists anyways. I think the goalposts are just too narrow as people try to use twenty five year old definitions of decks.
I always considered midrange to be modern's version of control, just as midrange/tempo play the aggro role in legacy due to a lack of viable linear creature decks (I miss you goblins...). Discard spells, removal, grindy game ending in a big finisher. It's just proactive control. I mean modern has virtually every archetype near the top except draw-go control, which still exists anyways. I think the goalposts are just too narrow as people try to use twenty five year old definitions of decks.
The reason why I hesitate to call death shadow variants "midrange" is because they nearly all have moved towards Temur Battle Rage.
Although Death Shadow is "technically" midrange... there is Death Shadow. And then there is Jund.
Death's Shadow is much more Tempo than anything else.
To go back to what we were talking about before, Todd Steven's new article i think puts up a good point:
Blue was already arguably the best color in Modern, with four of the nine decks at #PTRIX that had 5% or more of the metagame share being blue with Grixis Death's Shadow, Jeskai Control, U/R Gifts Storm, and U/W Control. That's of course not even counting Five-Color Humans with their sixteen maindeck blue cards. Snapcaster Mage has been the most played creature in Modern for quite some time now without help from the most powerful planeswalker ever printed.
Grixis Shadow isn't even really Tempo since most of its cards are tempo negative. They play like Jund, trying to strip their hand and then ride a big cheap vanilla ground creature to victory. The fact that it plays cantrips and a 1 mana Negate doesn't automatically make it "Tempo."
Death's Shadow is much more Tempo than anything else.
To go back to what we were talking about before, Todd Steven's new article i think puts up a good point:
Blue was already arguably the best color in Modern, with four of the nine decks at #PTRIX that had 5% or more of the metagame share being blue with Grixis Death's Shadow, Jeskai Control, U/R Gifts Storm, and U/W Control. That's of course not even counting Five-Color Humans with their sixteen maindeck blue cards. Snapcaster Mage has been the most played creature in Modern for quite some time now without help from the most powerful planeswalker ever printed.
Blue decks did not have the best conversion rates at the PT if you are talking about pure blue control decks. (I suppose lantern control plays blue too).
Both were almost immediately banned at the inception of the format
Green Sun will likely not homogenize all green decks around it. Chord of Calling, a card which can easily be compared to it, has certain advantages over Green Sun - instant speed, can grab a creature of any color, hits the graveyard (important for recursion with Eternal Witness). Eldritch Evolution, too, still has certain advantages to Green Sun.
Stoneforge Mystic should not homogenize all white decks, even though it does have a good chance to see play in Death and Taxes, Humans, Abzan, and Jeskai builds. More importantly, it should increase the playability of equipment in the format as a whole
Both were almost immediately banned at the inception of the format
Green Sun will likely not homogenize all green decks around it. Chord of Calling, a card which can easily be compared to it, has certain advantages over Green Sun - instant speed, can grab a creature of any color, hits the graveyard (important for recursion with Eternal Witness). Eldritch Evolution, too, still has certain advantages to Green Sun.
Stoneforge Mystic should not homogenize all white decks, even though it does have a good chance to see play in Death and Taxes, Humans, Abzan, and Jeskai builds. More importantly, it should increase the playability of equipment in the format as a whole
Green Sun Zenith will never be unbanned. You can cast it for zero and it is a one mana ramp spell. (get dryad arbor)
SFM is arguably way more powerful than both BBE and JTMS.
Both were almost immediately banned at the inception of the format
Green Sun will likely not homogenize all green decks around it. Chord of Calling, a card which can easily be compared to it, has certain advantages over Green Sun - instant speed, can grab a creature of any color, hits the graveyard (important for recursion with Eternal Witness). Eldritch Evolution, too, still has certain advantages to Green Sun.
Stoneforge Mystic should not homogenize all white decks, even though it does have a good chance to see play in Death and Taxes, Humans, Abzan, and Jeskai builds. More importantly, it should increase the playability of equipment in the format as a whole
I can't imagine GSZ being unbanned - that card is pretty insane at every point in the game. Part of why the unbanned BBE and Jace is that they are late threats, whereas GSZ is a very good play on t1; that combined with the extremely high flexibility that it offers leads me to believe that it really is too strong for modern.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks Modern UWRJeskai ControlRWU RWGBurnGWR Legacy UWStonebladeWU
i don't believe color distribution is a reliable metric to judge the health or balance of a format. having a diversity in deck types and strategies so people can play how they want with a modicum of success is more important (at least to me)
i don't see Stoneforge ever being unbanned. not because it is inherently more powerful than other things going on in the format. rather because it is too much value at a low CMC with very little deckbuilding cost.
anywho i don't think its very productive to beat that particularly dead horse. the format is in survivor mode. lets just try to get through the next couple of months.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
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The existence of decks like storm or burn were a balm in the current meta, making somewhat affordable decks playable without shame. The existence of Jund deck and traverse shadow, with the liliana of the vail and tarmogoyf represent the opposite end of the spectrum. UW control unfortunately, falls in the expensive end, with colonade, Command, Snapcaster and now Jace.
The way Wizards chooses to handle reprints by sometimes pushing staple rares to mythics (staple commons to uncommons, too) just goes with the trend. So, to me the unban of JtMS fuel the fear that top-tier blue deck would require a super-expensive card.
Magic has always been an expensive hobby. Any hobby... sport.. or like activity could technically be considered "pay-to-not-be-severely-disadvantaged" if you stare at it long enough.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
"Pay to win" is a terrible way to view TCGs. Cards cost money, thats just the world we live in. My problem is that with Jeskai or UW already fully built, I gotta pay another $200-$400 because a single card got unbanned that has never been in the format? Imo a card shouldn't exceed $100 that isn't on the reserved list, and Wizards has been trying hard over the years to address that. A few years ago, you couldn't play green without Tarmogoyf, and I don't want that to happen with Jace and Blue all over again
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Jace was over 100$ when it was in standard/extended.
The price will probably normalize a little bit after people stop freaking out.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
If that's the case, then Wizards clearly feels that Modern needs to slow down. The only way to slow down a format is to empower blue permission. Reprinting Brainstorm or unbanning Ponder is out, for obvious reasons. The only way Wizards has right now to accomplish that mission is to unban Jace. I personally don't believe that's going to be enough, which is why I believe Daze and Counterspell will see print in Dominaria.
Daze reprint but Preordain too good "for obvious reasons? wut
Modern too fast? Lantern Control and Mardu Pyromancer in the finals of the PT. Where where your fast combo decks? How about the last 4 big torunies? Where are the fast combo decks?
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
PT is split between limited and constructed. You really can't get any good meta-considerations by looking at what decks top 8ed.
27-28 Point Modern Decks
- Mardu Pyromancer
- Traverse Deathshadow
- UW control
- Eldrazi Tron
24-26 point Modern Decks
- Abzan
- UW control
- Boggles
- Traverse Deathshadow
- Lantern Control
- Grixis Control
- U/R Gift Storm
- Tron
- Affinity
- Grixis Shadow
- Tron
- Eldrazi Tron
- Burn
- W/B Eldrazi
- 5 color humans
- Hallowed One
The vast majority of the decks that did well were fast. Only 5 control decks where present.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
What about SCG Columbus when the finals were 2 conrol decks and the majority were on Death's Shadow?
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
As Someone who has been playing magic for nearly 20 years I can tell you that magic has not always been an "expensive hobby", and as someone who plays lots of sports calling "buying basic sports equipment that's actually needed to play" "pay-to-not-be-severely-disadvantaged" is disingenuous at best.
Also lots of the why Jace won't be a problem in Modern arguments remind me of the Jace won't be a problem in standard Arguments.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
a few things:
1) Death Shadow is not a control deck. I would actually put it in the "fast" category. It can achieve a win as early as turn 3 (though rare).
2) Control typically does very well vs those type of creature based fast decks.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
What I understand what you are saying is that Modern is too fast because, without any interaction or disruption, there are decks that can win on turn 3 and 4. And you claim this is bad and why we need Daze? Interesting
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
a) I never said modern was too fast.
b) the entire debate started because someone mentioned perhaps wizards wanted to slow down the format a bit. Control decks have lower conversion rates in comparison to other decks. Moreover UWx control decks were more likely to go to time. Jace in theory helps with that.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Control decks do well enough. Just because conversion rates are lower does not mean it is bad.
In truth nothing could have been unbanned and the format would still be fine.
The point I was trying to make - blue decks still under perform in relation to the entire meta.
Not having inevitability is one of the reasons why. I would argue that's also why UWx decks were more likely to go to time.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
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Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I understand that, but the point I was concerned about is having Daze and Coutnerspell in Modern after Jace unbanning
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Oh.... my bad. Yea I don't think we will ever ever ever get daze or counterspell in modern.
(did I mention ever enough times?). Counter-spell and daze would be too good for modern. Even more so than Jace.
PS: I suppose I could see a world where counter-spell would be fine for modern (and I only say that because logic knot is a close equivalent): but not daze. Free spells are very risky.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
The reason why I hesitate to call death shadow variants "midrange" is because they nearly all have moved towards Temur Battle Rage.
Although Death Shadow is "technically" midrange... there is Death Shadow. And then there is Jund.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
To go back to what we were talking about before, Todd Steven's new article i think puts up a good point:
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Blue decks did not have the best conversion rates at the PT if you are talking about pure blue control decks. (I suppose lantern control plays blue too).
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Both were almost immediately banned at the inception of the format
Green Sun will likely not homogenize all green decks around it. Chord of Calling, a card which can easily be compared to it, has certain advantages over Green Sun - instant speed, can grab a creature of any color, hits the graveyard (important for recursion with Eternal Witness). Eldritch Evolution, too, still has certain advantages to Green Sun.
Stoneforge Mystic should not homogenize all white decks, even though it does have a good chance to see play in Death and Taxes, Humans, Abzan, and Jeskai builds. More importantly, it should increase the playability of equipment in the format as a whole
Green Sun Zenith will never be unbanned. You can cast it for zero and it is a one mana ramp spell. (get dryad arbor)
SFM is arguably way more powerful than both BBE and JTMS.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I can't imagine GSZ being unbanned - that card is pretty insane at every point in the game. Part of why the unbanned BBE and Jace is that they are late threats, whereas GSZ is a very good play on t1; that combined with the extremely high flexibility that it offers leads me to believe that it really is too strong for modern.
Modern
UWRJeskai ControlRWU
RWGBurnGWR
Legacy
UWStonebladeWU
i don't see Stoneforge ever being unbanned. not because it is inherently more powerful than other things going on in the format. rather because it is too much value at a low CMC with very little deckbuilding cost.
anywho i don't think its very productive to beat that particularly dead horse. the format is in survivor mode. lets just try to get through the next couple of months.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)