I still wish we had Gitaxian Probe around to give Infect and the Kiln Fiend deck a bit more viability. I feel as though aggro-combo decks are on the downswing at the moment, which is too bad because they tend to keep the big mana decks in check while losing to the highly interactive decks.
Or perhaps humans has taken up the slot that aggro-combo used to hold?
I still wish we had Gitaxian Probe around to give Infect and the Kiln Fiend deck a bit more viability. I feel as though aggro-combo decks are on the downswing at the moment, which is too bad because they tend to keep the big mana decks in check while losing to the highly interactive decks.
I've been making that same argument for at least a year. But alas, WOTC underestimated the impact of Fatal Push, and now we'll never know how well they could have been kept in check by interactive decks.
I still wish we had Gitaxian Probe around to give Infect and the Kiln Fiend deck a bit more viability. I feel as though aggro-combo decks are on the downswing at the moment, which is too bad because they tend to keep the big mana decks in check while losing to the highly interactive decks.
I've been making that same argument for at least a year. But alas, WOTC underestimated the impact of Fatal Push, and now we'll never know how well they could have been kept in check by interactive decks.
I'm personally scared that we would know about Gitaxian Probe, as it exists with the current Death's Shadow lists.
I know that Holy is a poster on these forums, but whenever I see stuff posted like this I think to myself "Well my Grandma ate grapes everyday and was able to walk again!"
We need to stop using individualistic instances to abbreviate the world view of the Modern meta.
It's a long ways off, but I'll be going to GP Atlanta this fall, it'll be my first GP and I am stoked. Depending on how the Dominaria block shakes things up, I'll either bring my DS or my Faeries deck. I've got a ton of faith in Faeries, it's been doing very well for me at the local tournaments. The only true nightmare matchups I've had over the past few months is CoCo Elves, which feels like a 70/30 matchup in its favor, and Affinity, which is about the same.
I have had pretty good luck with my faeries deck too. It's not a bad deck. Push helped it and now with JTMS it has every card avalible to it that it used in the old extended lists. I expect to see some faeries lists popping up occasionally now. DS is probably the better deck right now, but with a few months of refinement faeriers could be a real good deck.
I have had pretty good luck with my faeries deck too. It's not a bad deck. Push helped it and now with JTMS it has every card avalible to it that it used in the old extended lists. I expect to see some faeries lists popping up occasionally now. DS is probably the better deck right now, but with a few months of refinement faeriers could be a real good deck.
I actually don't use Jace, I can't really afford to have any more cards taking up the 4 cmc slot. He's great don't get me wrong, he just doesn't help my deck. Now my DS deck on the other hand, he's far more likely to have a home in. Jace in my Faerie build is practically win more, which sounds insane I know, but I've been doing well without him this whole time.
I have had pretty good luck with my faeries deck too. It's not a bad deck. Push helped it and now with JTMS it has every card avalible to it that it used in the old extended lists. I expect to see some faeries lists popping up occasionally now. DS is probably the better deck right now, but with a few months of refinement faeriers could be a real good deck.
I actually don't use Jace, I can't really afford to have any more cards taking up the 4 cmc slot. He's great don't get me wrong, he just doesn't help my deck. Now my DS deck on the other hand, he's far more likely to have a home in. Jace in my Faerie build is practically win more, which sounds insane I know, but I've been doing well without him this whole time.
Not to make this a Fae thread, but he was not available this whole time so it makes sense :P. You do have to configure your deck differently to incorporate Jace, but he is super powerful and definitely not a win more card. You would need to cut down on Cryptics and up discard spells mainly, but that's fine. Bitterblossom into Jace is one of the most powerful things you can do.
Yeah, I was saying to myself "but if Jace exists, wouldn't that mean you'd run less cryptics?" I don't actually have a deck built at the moment that would even want Jace, though maybe he's a sideboard for the spirits deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well damn, I was trying to avoid having to dump a ton of extra money, but I hadn't thought of dropping Cryptics. It just seems crazy to say that out loud, dropping such a great card, but Jace is on a different level. I've just got to avoid the pitfall of slamming Jace out of sheer excitement, lol.
Well damn, I was trying to avoid having to dump a ton of extra money, but I hadn't thought of dropping Cryptics. It just seems crazy to say that out loud, dropping such a great card, but Jace is on a different level. I've just got to avoid the pitfall of slamming Jace out of sheer excitement, lol.
Well, several decks will have to adjust if they want to run Jace. You can check out the Faeries thread for my write up on a jace-less list.
I just checked the old extended faeries lists and I am going to revamp my list a bit. Mostly the required upgrades are obvious, like fatal push over disfigure, but there are cards in the pool today that don't have direct comparisons like Lily, snapcacter and AV. It'll need some work, but I think there will be a flavor of faeries that becomes fairly popular.
On a related note I saw a really nice UB control list that was just running bitterblossom and snap caster as creature threats with 4 lily and 4 jace. It ran several damnation and cryptics. It looked real powerful but it probably doesn't qualify as a faeries list.
is it just me or is Field of Ruin low-key warping the format?
not saying 'warp' in a bad way, it was just the best word i could think of.
i just cant remember a time when it felt so punishing to play a dedicated 3+ color deck
I know you didn't mean it (props for even saying so), but as a rule, this forum and the Modern/Magic community need to move away from using the word "warping" to describe powerful cards that influence a format. There's almost always a negative, frustrated connotation to the term, and I honestly don't think there's a way to use it that isn't pejorative. In fact, most people use it in a similar context to the one you may be using now: a player is frustrated with some card that had a big impact on a recent game and come online to accuse it of warping some element of gameplay. In non-rotating formats, almost all the generic answers have a big impact on what can and cannot be played. This is almost always a good thing. Much better words include "influence," "shape," "impact," "define," and others.
Is Field warping in any way? Absolutely, positively not. Is it an impactful generic answer that can influence the metagame? Yes, and that's excellent for a format that needed some generic nonbasic land hate.
It is for sure more powerful than people gave it credit for, but you have to account for it in your own deck building. If you are not running basics of every colour you need now, you are playing with fire.
as for field of ruin, i think i just underestimated how powerful the effect was. i sorta categorized it as a sidegrade to tec edge. however with the low opportunity cost it adds a disruptive element that incentivizes staying in 2 colors
add on top of this all the other random land hate going on, and im reevaluating my mana bases, the spells im playing, and how i sequence land drops.
dunno i just thought it was this innocuous thing that slipped into the format, but will end up having far reaching ramifications.
or other people knew all along, and i just didnt read the memo lol
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Oh yeah, the Field of Ruin is really good in a format that was going towards playing wedge and shard colors as the norm and four to five color in some cases.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think it's entertaining how Field of Ruin has caused mana bases to evolve to deal with non-basic hate.
Before you used to run at most 1-ish of every basic for every colour in your deck, with the exception being Mountains because they were redundant under a Blood Moon. But how with Field of Ruin you may need that Mountain since all your other red sources could get blown up leaving you unable to cast spells.
Wizards low key printed an amazing card for Modern, and it just took people a while to realize how great it is.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
I think Field of Ruin is the most impactful Standard card for Modern since Fatal Push. Sure, the semantics of "warping" are something to consider, but the card is honestly having a larger effect on the format as a whole than any single card since the newest one-mana removal.
Just listen to what we're all saying about it. We're fundamentally shifting our mana bases. We're reconsidering how we sequence land drops. We're even changing up the spells we put in our lists. These are symptoms of a format warping card, without the common negative undertones on "warping." People usually discount changes to manabases as actual changes, but when legitimately every decks needs to alter their lands for a single card that entered the format, it's a sign that card is having a huge effect.
I'm totally for this change. Having Wasteland-lite in Modern is something I totally support; between fetch-shock manabases, the Tron lands, and Valakut, the format has been in this little bubble of having so many archetypes validated by the fact that there were so few risks to having such unstable manabases. (The largest of which being Blood Moon, which is very similar to Field of Ruin in its impact, but not as main-deckable. Heck, we have whole archetypes dedicated to slamming an early Moon.) Once Field of Ruin settles into the format, we may see colossal shifts in the prevalence of certain archetypes. If every two color deck eventually learns to maindeck 2-4 Field of Ruin, three color decks will suffer, the impact of Tron will decrease (probably not as much as you'd think), and Scapeshift will become a much better finisher for Valakut than Primetime.
While I understand the desire to avoid slapping negative connotation onto new cards in the format due to feelsbad games, I would totally say Field of Ruin has the potential to force a change in the Modern format, possibly to the level of "warping." And I'm totally on board with that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Or perhaps humans has taken up the slot that aggro-combo used to hold?
I've been making that same argument for at least a year. But alas, WOTC underestimated the impact of Fatal Push, and now we'll never know how well they could have been kept in check by interactive decks.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I'm personally scared that we would know about Gitaxian Probe, as it exists with the current Death's Shadow lists.
Spirits
Spirits
I know that Holy is a poster on these forums, but whenever I see stuff posted like this I think to myself "Well my Grandma ate grapes everyday and was able to walk again!"
We need to stop using individualistic instances to abbreviate the world view of the Modern meta.
Spirits
I actually don't use Jace, I can't really afford to have any more cards taking up the 4 cmc slot. He's great don't get me wrong, he just doesn't help my deck. Now my DS deck on the other hand, he's far more likely to have a home in. Jace in my Faerie build is practically win more, which sounds insane I know, but I've been doing well without him this whole time.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
On a related note I saw a really nice UB control list that was just running bitterblossom and snap caster as creature threats with 4 lily and 4 jace. It ran several damnation and cryptics. It looked real powerful but it probably doesn't qualify as a faeries list.
not saying 'warp' in a bad way, it was just the best word i could think of.
i just cant remember a time when it felt so punishing to play a dedicated 3+ color deck
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I know you didn't mean it (props for even saying so), but as a rule, this forum and the Modern/Magic community need to move away from using the word "warping" to describe powerful cards that influence a format. There's almost always a negative, frustrated connotation to the term, and I honestly don't think there's a way to use it that isn't pejorative. In fact, most people use it in a similar context to the one you may be using now: a player is frustrated with some card that had a big impact on a recent game and come online to accuse it of warping some element of gameplay. In non-rotating formats, almost all the generic answers have a big impact on what can and cannot be played. This is almost always a good thing. Much better words include "influence," "shape," "impact," "define," and others.
Is Field warping in any way? Absolutely, positively not. Is it an impactful generic answer that can influence the metagame? Yes, and that's excellent for a format that needed some generic nonbasic land hate.
Spirits
as for field of ruin, i think i just underestimated how powerful the effect was. i sorta categorized it as a sidegrade to tec edge. however with the low opportunity cost it adds a disruptive element that incentivizes staying in 2 colors
add on top of this all the other random land hate going on, and im reevaluating my mana bases, the spells im playing, and how i sequence land drops.
dunno i just thought it was this innocuous thing that slipped into the format, but will end up having far reaching ramifications.
or other people knew all along, and i just didnt read the memo lol
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
right after i played against a BG midrange deck. field of ruins, fulminators, and choke
jeskai.exe has encountered an error
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Spirits
Before you used to run at most 1-ish of every basic for every colour in your deck, with the exception being Mountains because they were redundant under a Blood Moon. But how with Field of Ruin you may need that Mountain since all your other red sources could get blown up leaving you unable to cast spells.
Wizards low key printed an amazing card for Modern, and it just took people a while to realize how great it is.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Just listen to what we're all saying about it. We're fundamentally shifting our mana bases. We're reconsidering how we sequence land drops. We're even changing up the spells we put in our lists. These are symptoms of a format warping card, without the common negative undertones on "warping." People usually discount changes to manabases as actual changes, but when legitimately every decks needs to alter their lands for a single card that entered the format, it's a sign that card is having a huge effect.
I'm totally for this change. Having Wasteland-lite in Modern is something I totally support; between fetch-shock manabases, the Tron lands, and Valakut, the format has been in this little bubble of having so many archetypes validated by the fact that there were so few risks to having such unstable manabases. (The largest of which being Blood Moon, which is very similar to Field of Ruin in its impact, but not as main-deckable. Heck, we have whole archetypes dedicated to slamming an early Moon.) Once Field of Ruin settles into the format, we may see colossal shifts in the prevalence of certain archetypes. If every two color deck eventually learns to maindeck 2-4 Field of Ruin, three color decks will suffer, the impact of Tron will decrease (probably not as much as you'd think), and Scapeshift will become a much better finisher for Valakut than Primetime.
While I understand the desire to avoid slapping negative connotation onto new cards in the format due to feelsbad games, I would totally say Field of Ruin has the potential to force a change in the Modern format, possibly to the level of "warping." And I'm totally on board with that.