Been brewing this list for a while
I think Jace works pretty well on it since we have tons of cheap spells, SCM and Pyromancer as a threat and a way to protect the Planeswalker.
I'm posting here cause I'd like some opinions or feedback
I think they likely are soft to combo, but I've never been really into dedicated combo (Storm, Grishoal) I do Control Combo, or now Aggro Combo I guess.
I'm not seeing Cryptics in these lists, its normally ramp (Noble) into threats, into BBE or Jace and then just an avalanche of advantage.
Online Im still destroying this. They have serious mana problems, Late, non cascaded AVs are horrible and there are some really bad cascade targets. Ive just really unimpressed by it.
A nice tight U/R through the breach type build with emrakul and through the breach replaced with mind sculpt, tome scour, and traumatize. Maybe even glimpse the unthinkable and breaking/entering. Find room for some Jace and a number of both Inquisition of kozilek and thoughtsieze and I'd say it's a pretty solid mill deck.
RUG seems too soft to non interactive decks. If you expect an entire room full of fair decks it's fantastic and buries you, but that just seems soft. You definitely need to hit a pairing lottery in long tournaments.
UW Control seems most able to handle a variety of things. Field of Ruins and Spreading Seas is incredibly annoying if you're a three color deck.
RUG seems too soft to non interactive decks. If you expect an entire room full of fair decks it's fantastic and buries you, but that just seems soft. You definitely need to hit a pairing lottery in long tournaments.
UW Control seems most able to handle a variety of things. Field of Ruins and Spreading Seas is incredibly annoying if you're a three color deck.
Zoo beats most control decks, but Ive beaten that one hard. Zoo is the fairest deck of them all, but I'm undefeated in my testing vs Rug jace. And with Dredge, but thats an unfair deck.
Both are still to your point. both are pretty uninteractive. But one is fair uninteractive.
If I'm able to make it out for FNM tonight, I'll be trying a Grixis shell. Was unimpressed with Kiki/Moon on Monday, or rather, the deck reminded me at every possible opportunity why it is exponentially worse than Twin, so I'm putting it back on the shelf for now. Looking at a Grixis base with Jace, removal, light discard, K command, and tasigur + a 2 drop threat (either YP or Thing). I guess you could call it "control," but it seems more like "Grixis pile of cards." Seems like a great place for Jace to shine.
If I'm able to make it out for FNM tonight, I'll be trying a Grixis shell. Was unimpressed with Kiki/Moon on Monday, or rather, the deck reminded me at every possible opportunity why it is exponentially worse than Twin, so I'm putting it back on the shelf for now. Looking at a Grixis base with Jace, removal, light discard, K command, and tasigur + a 2 drop threat (either YP or Thing). I guess you could call it "control," but it seems more like "Grixis pile of cards." Seems like a great place for Jace to shine.
If I'm able to make it out for FNM tonight, I'll be trying a Grixis shell. Was unimpressed with Kiki/Moon on Monday, or rather, the deck reminded me at every possible opportunity why it is exponentially worse than Twin, so I'm putting it back on the shelf for now. Looking at a Grixis base with Jace, removal, light discard, K command, and tasigur + a 2 drop threat (either YP or Thing). I guess you could call it "control," but it seems more like "Grixis pile of cards." Seems like a great place for Jace to shine.
Did you ever try UR Breach/Moon?
I did. Felt very one-dimensional. Lacked the tempo backup plan and has terrible removal spells. Maybe it's better with Jace? I don't know. UR needs to win quickly and reliably because its tools are SO MUCH WORSE than Jeskai or Grixis. And while sometimes Blood Moon "wins" on its own, it often isn't good enough; especially when people expect it. I feel extremely naked without either Paths and Helixes or Pushes and K Commands.
Yeah I felt the same, was just wondering if I was alone in that. I played against it last night, and once the jig was up and I knew what he was on, it wasnt an issue.
Without something proactive early, to apply sustained pressure, any Jace (or UR) deck wont be a powerhouse, its just too easy to dismantle and go under or over.
I've had 2 Games (not matches) won on the back of Jace now, but he's certainly not a format slaying beast.
Honestly, I'm probably just going to play Geist with a mostly same list as my old lists, but go down a Cryptic and possibly a Queller for 2 Jace. I also just want a reason to play my foil Stormbreath Dragon, which I may play in the side against Path decks? Iduno. It seems really great to go like T1 bolt your thing, T2 counter your thing, T3 Geist, T4 Jace, T5 Stormbreath. It's proactive, but still has reactive bits.
But I agree that Jace as a whole is mostly underwhelming. I've been on the "Jace is overhyped" train for a looong time. He definitely FEELS good to cast, but he does not win games you aren't already even/winning.
Not sure if it'll be the best shell but I've been having fun with BUG. I play a list very similar to Reid's Abzan with Jace, Snap, Azcanta, and permission in the side.
Sigrist has an article out on CFB discussing his journey with Jace last week playing a variety of decks. It just solidifies what we've been saying, that Jace will be best suited in a deck with hand disruption over permission.
Interested to see how GFabs tweaks his build.
The lists Hoogland and Davis (neither are their own creations) have streamed looked clunky and lacking refinement.
If I'm able to make it out for FNM tonight, I'll be trying a Grixis shell. Was unimpressed with Kiki/Moon on Monday, or rather, the deck reminded me at every possible opportunity why it is exponentially worse than Twin, so I'm putting it back on the shelf for now. Looking at a Grixis base with Jace, removal, light discard, K command, and tasigur + a 2 drop threat (either YP or Thing). I guess you could call it "control," but it seems more like "Grixis pile of cards." Seems like a great place for Jace to shine.
Did you ever try UR Breach/Moon?
I did. Felt very one-dimensional. Lacked the tempo backup plan and has terrible removal spells. Maybe it's better with Jace? I don't know. UR needs to win quickly and reliably because its tools are SO MUCH WORSE than Jeskai or Grixis. And while sometimes Blood Moon "wins" on its own, it often isn't good enough; especially when people expect it. I feel extremely naked without either Paths and Helixes or Pushes and K Commands.
I have been feeling the opposite of UR Breach. Jace has been pretty instrumental in being able to piece together Through the Breach and Emrakul. I did cut Cryptic Command completely though, I felt too often the deck turned into just trying to stall instead of go off and Cryptic Command was the main offender. So many games are just Blood Moon into Jace and then TTB your opponent into concession. Things become more interactive after the SB, but I really do not think the MB has needed any real interactivity. Too many decks are trying to gun down your Jace that you are better either trying to Moon lock into him or just using him to on-shot you into your Breach for the win.
Out of my current Jace lists, I have found UR Moon to have the best win-rate of all of them. The selection includes Jeskai, UR, Sultai, Grixis, RUG and UR Moon.
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STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
If I'm able to make it out for FNM tonight, I'll be trying a Grixis shell. Was unimpressed with Kiki/Moon on Monday, or rather, the deck reminded me at every possible opportunity why it is exponentially worse than Twin, so I'm putting it back on the shelf for now. Looking at a Grixis base with Jace, removal, light discard, K command, and tasigur + a 2 drop threat (either YP or Thing). I guess you could call it "control," but it seems more like "Grixis pile of cards." Seems like a great place for Jace to shine.
Did you ever try UR Breach/Moon?
I did. Felt very one-dimensional. Lacked the tempo backup plan and has terrible removal spells. Maybe it's better with Jace? I don't know. UR needs to win quickly and reliably because its tools are SO MUCH WORSE than Jeskai or Grixis. And while sometimes Blood Moon "wins" on its own, it often isn't good enough; especially when people expect it. I feel extremely naked without either Paths and Helixes or Pushes and K Commands.
I have been feeling the opposite of UR Breach. Jace has been pretty instrumental in being able to piece together Through the Breach and Emrakul. I did cut Cryptic Command completely though, I felt too often the deck turned into just trying to stall instead of go off and Cryptic Command was the main offender. So many games are just Blood Moon into Jace and then TTB your opponent into concession. Things become more interactive after the SB, but I really do not think the MB has needed any real interactivity. Too many decks are trying to gun down your Jace that you are better either trying to Moon lock into him or just using him to on-shot you into your Breach for the win.
Out of my current Jace lists, I have found UR Moon to have the best win-rate of all of them. The selection includes Jeskai, UR, Sultai, Grixis, RUG and UR Moon.
I will have to give that a try... It seems blasphemous to cut Cryptic, but it also solves the problem of being able to cast it under a Blood Moon...
I have been trying to think about the deck as less of a Control deck and more of a combo deck. I played a lot of UR Tron after that deck cropped up, and I consider them to be pretty similar in that they really are only trying to make tempo plays until they can just force their opponent into concession. I am still also running Simian Spirit Guide in order to force out an early Blood Moon or Through the Breach. I figure it is better than just using Counterspells to buy a turn for any given draw I am looking for.
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STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
it could if you play a 3-2 or 3-3 split with jace and lili and run it as a midrange/control shell. it would look completely different then the current tezzerator shells.
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Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
I think Jace fits better in decks with prison elements, be it Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge or chaining extra turns. This doesn't mean they're the best decks with Jace you could be playing in Modern.
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Who is truer: you who are, or you who are to be?
Currently sleeved: WUR Copycat ft. Stoneforge Mystic
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I think Jace works pretty well on it since we have tons of cheap spells, SCM and Pyromancer as a threat and a way to protect the Planeswalker.
I'm posting here cause I'd like some opinions or feedback
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
4 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Kolaghan's Command
2 Collective Brutality
2 Dreadbore
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
Spirits
UW Control seems most able to handle a variety of things. Field of Ruins and Spreading Seas is incredibly annoying if you're a three color deck.
Zoo beats most control decks, but Ive beaten that one hard. Zoo is the fairest deck of them all, but I'm undefeated in my testing vs Rug jace. And with Dredge, but thats an unfair deck.
Both are still to your point. both are pretty uninteractive. But one is fair uninteractive.
Spirits
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UW Control seems solid, too, but weak to a resolved Jace.
Did you ever try UR Breach/Moon?
Spirits
I did. Felt very one-dimensional. Lacked the tempo backup plan and has terrible removal spells. Maybe it's better with Jace? I don't know. UR needs to win quickly and reliably because its tools are SO MUCH WORSE than Jeskai or Grixis. And while sometimes Blood Moon "wins" on its own, it often isn't good enough; especially when people expect it. I feel extremely naked without either Paths and Helixes or Pushes and K Commands.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Without something proactive early, to apply sustained pressure, any Jace (or UR) deck wont be a powerhouse, its just too easy to dismantle and go under or over.
I've had 2 Games (not matches) won on the back of Jace now, but he's certainly not a format slaying beast.
Spirits
But I agree that Jace as a whole is mostly underwhelming. I've been on the "Jace is overhyped" train for a looong time. He definitely FEELS good to cast, but he does not win games you aren't already even/winning.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Sigrist has an article out on CFB discussing his journey with Jace last week playing a variety of decks. It just solidifies what we've been saying, that Jace will be best suited in a deck with hand disruption over permission.
Interested to see how GFabs tweaks his build.
The lists Hoogland and Davis (neither are their own creations) have streamed looked clunky and lacking refinement.
David Ochoa: "Mono-bacon!..."
I have been feeling the opposite of UR Breach. Jace has been pretty instrumental in being able to piece together Through the Breach and Emrakul. I did cut Cryptic Command completely though, I felt too often the deck turned into just trying to stall instead of go off and Cryptic Command was the main offender. So many games are just Blood Moon into Jace and then TTB your opponent into concession. Things become more interactive after the SB, but I really do not think the MB has needed any real interactivity. Too many decks are trying to gun down your Jace that you are better either trying to Moon lock into him or just using him to on-shot you into your Breach for the win.
Out of my current Jace lists, I have found UR Moon to have the best win-rate of all of them. The selection includes Jeskai, UR, Sultai, Grixis, RUG and UR Moon.
STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
I will have to give that a try... It seems blasphemous to cut Cryptic, but it also solves the problem of being able to cast it under a Blood Moon...
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
probably not, but i'd be pleasantly surprised if it became a solid tier 2 option
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
Currently sleeved:
WUR Copycat ft. Stoneforge Mystic