I realize that this has probably been posted 3 times on this site, but I want replies from my fellow Moderners. The article also discusses shaking hands and ghosting as well, but I want to focus on the die roll.
I play around 3-5 times per week. I calculated my die roll win percentage in January and February to be less than 29%. Since trying a new strategy by shaking the dice for a few seconds before rolling, my win percentage is nearly 70%. When I tell people this, they think I'm cheating. I don't know if they're kidding or not.
I am a superstitious person. If I won two 1K tournaments with a certain T-Shirt, you best believe I'm using that one again when I want to win. If something is working, I will "ride that horse" until it doesn't work anymore.
*Lastly, I have to say that getting to have an extra card usually felt somewhat good (usually being on the draw). But going first is the NUUUUTS. Having the tempo, having more mana, getting to make all the plays first, has felt soooooo good. It does make mulligan decisions tougher because you can't rely on an extra draw or a scry and an extra draw after a mull to 6, but I'm fine with that.
What do you guys think? Should the die roll be predetermined? How would that even work? Feel free to discuss other topics too, as Sigrist's article did have many morsels in it. (Also, yes, Matt Nass is the worst dude. You cannot argue this.)
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I was the guy who mentioned it in the comments, Chess has had that setup for years to give as many competitors as possible the chance to go first about half the time. If you are on the play 50%, on the draw the other 50%, you have a much tougher time claiming that your long-term results are based on a die roll. Plus, look I'm gonna be the dick here and say that people will look to cheat at every opportunity. That means trick dice, stacking the deck during shuffling, everything. WOTC has demonstrated a lack of a desire to ban cheaters, so you have to be prepared for it at higher levels.
As an aside, the fast nature of modern is why I was always a fan of spell snare in blue decks.
I was the guy who mentioned it in the comments, Chess has had that setup for years to give as many competitors as possible the chance to go first about half the time. If you are on the play 50%, on the draw the other 50%, you have a much tougher time claiming that your long-term results are based on a die roll. Plus, look I'm gonna be the dick here and say that people will look to cheat at every opportunity. That means trick dice, stacking the deck during shuffling, everything. WOTC has demonstrated a lack of a desire to ban cheaters, so you have to be prepared for it at higher levels.
As an aside, the fast nature of modern is why I was always a fan of spell snare in blue decks.
Then this is one of the few times that we agree with each other, lol. I do agree that some people will cheat at any chance they can. Look, Alex Bertoncini recently played at my LGS. You best believe that in our match, I'm going to be super careful.
That being said, I'm only behind it IF and only IF it doesn't add more time (and possible work for Judges) to the length of matches. I'm pretty sure that technology nowadays can do it in seconds, but you know Wizards...
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I was the guy who mentioned it in the comments, Chess has had that setup for years to give as many competitors as possible the chance to go first about half the time. If you are on the play 50%, on the draw the other 50%, you have a much tougher time claiming that your long-term results are based on a die roll. Plus, look I'm gonna be the dick here and say that people will look to cheat at every opportunity. That means trick dice, stacking the deck during shuffling, everything. WOTC has demonstrated a lack of a desire to ban cheaters, so you have to be prepared for it at higher levels.
As an aside, the fast nature of modern is why I was always a fan of spell snare in blue decks.
Then this is one of the few times that we agree with each other, lol. I do agree that some people will cheat at any chance they can. Look, Alex Bertoncini recently played at my LGS. You best believe that in our match, I'm going to be super careful.
That being said, I'm only behind it IF and only IF it doesn't add more time (and possible work for Judges) to the length of matches. I'm pretty sure that technology nowadays can do it in seconds, but you know Wizards...
Hell, I bet if WOTC took the time to put resources into that, they could shave significant time off of the events with their current software that looks like something I ran on an iMac in high school.
I definitely feel you there. It's at the point where I think some companies purposely leave their software in the stone ages so they won't be held accountable for problems that occur. "It's the software, we can't help it." (if you read this beyond what Wizards does and to other companies, then you read right)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
i think dealing with anything that needs to be randomized should be standardized across the board. both to minimize cheating, and because its just good practice in anything that involves competing for money.
for instance i have voiced many times that i hate resolving random discard effects like burning inquiry. its incredibly awkward, time consuming, open to abuse, and often done in a manner that can only loosely be called random.
die rolls are the same way.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
My mind was blown to see people defending 'Ghosting' or Stream Sniping. Its flat out cheating, indefensible.
I think some people will stop at nothing (or many things) in order to win a match of Magic when money is on the line. That's the bottom line.
If you watched Marshall Sutcliffe's video, even the guy who ghosted finally admitted in the end in a post that he was wrong and sorry about it (after he saw the effects of Ghosting). It's just at that moment, can you say no to Ghosting? Can you?
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
ghosting is wrong, but if someone is streaming in a competitive event knowing full well that they can take measures to prevent it then they have to accept the consequences.
ive seen players in online ptqs hide their hand or put a delay on the stream; both of which are trivial to do.
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My mind was blown to see people defending 'Ghosting' or Stream Sniping. Its flat out cheating, indefensible.
I think some people will stop at nothing (or many things) in order to win a match of Magic when money is on the line. That's the bottom line.
If you watched Marshall Sutcliffe's video, even the guy who ghosted finally admitted in the end in a post that he was wrong and sorry about it (after he saw the effects of Ghosting). It's just at that moment, can you say no to Ghosting? Can you?
"Who are you in the darkness, when nobody is watching?"
I realize that this has probably been posted 3 times on this site, but I want replies from my fellow Moderners. The article also discusses shaking hands and ghosting as well, but I want to focus on the die roll.
I play around 3-5 times per week. I calculated my die roll win percentage in January and February to be less than 29%. Since trying a new strategy by shaking the dice for a few seconds before rolling, my win percentage is nearly 70%. When I tell people this, they think I'm cheating. I don't know if they're kidding or not.
I am a superstitious person. If I won two 1K tournaments with a certain T-Shirt, you best believe I'm using that one again when I want to win. If something is working, I will "ride that horse" until it doesn't work anymore.
*Lastly, I have to say that getting to have an extra card usually felt somewhat good (usually being on the draw). But going first is the NUUUUTS. Having the tempo, having more mana, getting to make all the plays first, has felt soooooo good. It does make mulligan decisions tougher because you can't rely on an extra draw or a scry and an extra draw after a mull to 6, but I'm fine with that.
What do you guys think? Should the die roll be predetermined? How would that even work? Feel free to discuss other topics too, as Sigrist's article did have many morsels in it. (Also, yes, Matt Nass is the worst dude. You cannot argue this.)
So I actually think that random die rolls are a bad way to handle the competitive scene. For MTGO and anything using WER I think that they should track players and rank them (essentially ELO) and give the play to either the higher or lower ranked player, depending on which way you want to argue it.
For casual, I think die rolling is fine.
As far as actually rolling the dice goes, just flipping them over will give you a better chance of winning if the opponent rolled below average. If they rolled above average, shaking them will give you a better chance. If you're less than reputable, let your opponent roll first, and hand them the dice with the high numbers face up. Either they shake and it doesn't matter, or they don't and they roll lower.
So I actually think that random die rolls are a bad way to handle the competitive scene. For MTGO and anything using WER I think that they should track players and rank them (essentially ELO) and give the play to either the higher or lower ranked player, depending on which way you want to argue it.
For casual, I think die rolling is fine.
As far as actually rolling the dice goes, just flipping them over will give you a better chance of winning if the opponent rolled below average. If they rolled above average, shaking them will give you a better chance. If you're less than reputable, let your opponent roll first, and hand them the dice with the high numbers face up. Either they shake and it doesn't matter, or they don't and they roll lower.
wotc has shied away from any true elo ranking. even still that system seems too convoluted. the chess tournament system seems more appropriate, using a weighted system to make it less likely to get a string of bad luck. then they can just indicate play or draw on the pairings list.
an easier method with dice is just having one person roll and the other choose odd or even.
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I play around 3-5 times per week. I calculated my die roll win percentage in January and February to be less than 29%. Since trying a new strategy by shaking the dice for a few seconds before rolling, my win percentage is nearly 70%. When I tell people this, they think I'm cheating. I don't know if they're kidding or not.
So 29 plus 70 percent is 99% divide that by 2 and you have basically the 50/50 odds that should occur. It will all equal out in the long run.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I play around 3-5 times per week. I calculated my die roll win percentage in January and February to be less than 29%. Since trying a new strategy by shaking the dice for a few seconds before rolling, my win percentage is nearly 70%. When I tell people this, they think I'm cheating. I don't know if they're kidding or not.
So 29 plus 70 percent is 99% divide that by 2 and you have basically the 50/50 odds that should occur. It will all equal out in the long run.
I was less than 29% for nearly 3 months of rolling dice. That's 90 days. I've been nearly 70% for April - that's 7 days. That hardly evens out.
And I love when people try to prove that "everyone who rolls dice gets 50% overall in their lifetime." You gotta understand that it's a complete joke to people like me. Whatever makes you sleep at night bud.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Yep. Math is a joke. Statistics are a sham. The Earth is flat. Medicine is witchcraft. Science is voodoo.
The only joke is your last post. Thanks for the attack clown.
I'm not sure where you got these from.
I shouldn't have said the last sentence. It did look like an attack. But there are people that would not believe you if you say that some Magic player has a lifetime 54.63% die roll win percentage. Someone else has a 39.14% die roll win percentage. They would say, "no, everyone with over 500 matches has a 50.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% die roll win percentage. Sorry, I just don't buy that. Math can prove that it's not true. Then they will move onto something else. "Why are you so apt at checking die rolls?" "You should concentrate on your game more." Well, I do. My win percentage is nearly where I want it right now and nearing 70% in Modern. In Standard, lifetime, it IS over 70%. But, that should be unbelievable too, right? Every Magic player has a 50.00 (I'm not doing all those 0s again) % win percentage too.
I don't know if you are one of those people or not. But at least to me, those people who try to prove that everyone has a 50% die roll win percentage, just because it isn't officially tracked, are probably people that win over 50% themselves and are just trying to not realize that they have had some good rolls themselves. It certainly is one of the most minor parts about Magic, but it is one that I'm bringing up right now.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I shouldn't have said the last sentence. It did look like an attack.
Apology accepted, I will edit my sleight in good faith, please accept mine.
I am not saying everyone will be exactly 50%, but everyone will be close to that number. Statistics don't lie, unless someone is using a loaded die or somehow not rolling from a sufficient height, die rolls are going to even out for the most part over time. Variance is real, it happens. Your recent "good luck" in die rolls is showing that, things will even out normalized over a large sample size. Roll with it.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
My mind was blown to see people defending 'Ghosting' or Stream Sniping. Its flat out cheating, indefensible.
I'll open this can of worms.
No it isn't. A person who streams live is willingly giving out free information to the public. If they are dumb enough or naive enough to think that it won't be used against them, then they deserve what they get. If I sit down and don't hold my hand back far enough to hide the cards and my opponent looks at my hand it isn't their fault, its mine because I was the idiot that didn't hide them well enough. Same difference. If they don't want their opponent to know, don't broadcast it (live stream) to the world. Delay it. End of story.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I struggle to think of an argument against pregenerated die rolls. I guess it's an extra logistical step for TOs? It removes a friendly player-interaction element at the beginning of games? I'm pretty sure most of the arguments defending player rolls would be outweighed by the benefits of predetermined ones. It's more likely to be truly random and eliminates both a "feel-bad" moment in games and an opportunity to cheat.
My mind was blown to see people defending 'Ghosting' or Stream Sniping. Its flat out cheating, indefensible.
I'll open this can of worms.
No it isn't. A person who streams live is willingly giving out free information to the public. If they are dumb enough or naive enough to think that it won't be used against them, then they deserve what they get. If I sit down and don't hold my hand back far enough to hide the cards and my opponent looks at my hand it isn't their fault, its mine because I was the idiot that didn't hide them well enough. Same difference. If they don't want their opponent to know, don't broadcast it (live stream) to the world. Delay it. End of story.
This is a terrible take and your corrected metaphor shows it. An opponent isn't glancing at your hand because you're carelessly holding it too far forward; they're actively logging on to twitch to find a stream. That's far more akin to your opponent leaning halfway across the table to see your hand to take advantage of your "carelessness".
Could you (and the streamer) have been more concerned about tipping your hand? Sure. But that doesn't excuse your opponent's behavior.
its the law of large numbers. as the sample size grows it just approaches the expected value, but that point isnt determined. it could be a hundred, a thousand, or a million. the same is true for the set of magic players approaching a central limit. a few players might have wildly different roll percentages, but as you increase the population it will also approach the expected value of the individual.
win percentages are an entirely different animal. there is no set expected value because a bunch of things like skill (yours and your opponent), deck choice, format, etc. the only thing you can say with certainty is that good players win more than they lose. its one of the primary reasons lifetime win percentage isnt really used to rate players for the hall of fame; its the number of high profile tournament finishes.
the only thing i see that makes tracking die rolls worthwhile is how it pertains to the win percentage of a specific deck. some decks perform drastically different on the play vs. draw; legacy rug delver is an example. these types of decks are the reason to be wary of die cheats, because they are cases where you can gain a significant advantage over the course of a tournament.
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Yes, I understand this. Win percentages have a "skill dependent" factor in them.
You can't have it both ways though. If someone has played a lot of Magic matches in their lifetime, then having a 46.46% die roll percentage could essentially mean losing 5,284 more die rolls than their opponent. That's quite a bit! I do think that the numbers will be somewhat close to 50%, but who's to say that it always is 50.0%? I don't think that life is like that.
*You gotta understand too that I am superstitious and believe in luck. It influences my beliefs. I know people that are like this too. I know people that are NOT like this. Many of my friends think I'm silly.
**Also there are streaks where someone just doesn't seem to win a die roll. You can't minimize their experience by saying that "everyone gets 50%." They're really not trying to hear that at that very time.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
im not understanding your point. have what both ways? the concept of luck ties directly into chaotic systems being largely non-deterministic. this doesnt mean there is some magical force at work that cant be modeled given enough information. a person could flip a coin a billion times and get heads every time, this doesnt invalidate probability. if you want to attribute it to something superstitious, spiritual, or whatever then that is your prerogative.
as for ghosting. we could sit here and wax philosophical about morals or integrity, but at the end of the day it doesnt matter. think of it this way. if someone streams a high stakes match without taking any precautions, loses, and then its later found out that the opponent was ghosting - should that player be punished? no, that would be absurd because its something completely removed from the rules of the game and wizards has no place enforcing stuff that is out of their control. is the ghosting player a scumbag? sure.
if its really an issue then wizards will put rules in place for streaming.
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My mind was blown to see people defending 'Ghosting' or Stream Sniping. Its flat out cheating, indefensible.
I'll open this can of worms.
No it isn't. A person who streams live is willingly giving out free information to the public. If they are dumb enough or naive enough to think that it won't be used against them, then they deserve what they get. If I sit down and don't hold my hand back far enough to hide the cards and my opponent looks at my hand it isn't their fault, its mine because I was the idiot that didn't hide them well enough. Same difference. If they don't want their opponent to know, don't broadcast it (live stream) to the world. Delay it. End of story.
This is a terrible take and your corrected metaphor shows it. An opponent isn't glancing at your hand because you're carelessly holding it too far forward; they're actively logging on to twitch to find a stream. That's far more akin to your opponent leaning halfway across the table to see your hand to take advantage of your "carelessness".
Could you (and the streamer) have been more concerned about tipping your hand? Sure. But that doesn't excuse your opponent's behavior.
Sorry but you aren't even close. My "analogy" (not metaphor) is near dead on and exact. It is called individual accountability. You are responsible for your own actions, known ones and ones you may not be aware of. If your action is actively, knowingly and blatantly broadcasting your actions, the viewer isn't necessarily responsible for your actions. The streamer is. Just more of this snowflake, I'm not responsible for my own actions, entitlement bullcrap that is out there due to lack of correct upbringing and education. In fact I would take it a step farther that the individual who live streams an online game without the consent of the other player is actively harming that player by divulging information about their deck and play style. Now if both parties are in consent of the live stream, then yes the opponent looking at that stream is cheating. But if it is not announced or is clandestine, the burden of stupidity falls on the live streamer.
Leaning over is to view an unviewable hand is cheating. Looking at self televised/broadcast information is not, plain and simple. Why don't professional sports coaches like NFL coaches live stream their play calling and images of their playblook? Would the opponent be on the "honor system" not to view that broadcast. Hell no, they willingly and knowingly gave away that information. If I play with my hand showing on the table for all to see its my own damn fault. Then I would blame my opponent for looking at my hand because I was an idiot and say they were cheating. Please.
Individual accountability plain and simple.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
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https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/shakes-addle-and-rolls/
I realize that this has probably been posted 3 times on this site, but I want replies from my fellow Moderners. The article also discusses shaking hands and ghosting as well, but I want to focus on the die roll.
I play around 3-5 times per week. I calculated my die roll win percentage in January and February to be less than 29%. Since trying a new strategy by shaking the dice for a few seconds before rolling, my win percentage is nearly 70%. When I tell people this, they think I'm cheating. I don't know if they're kidding or not.
I am a superstitious person. If I won two 1K tournaments with a certain T-Shirt, you best believe I'm using that one again when I want to win. If something is working, I will "ride that horse" until it doesn't work anymore.
*Lastly, I have to say that getting to have an extra card usually felt somewhat good (usually being on the draw). But going first is the NUUUUTS. Having the tempo, having more mana, getting to make all the plays first, has felt soooooo good. It does make mulligan decisions tougher because you can't rely on an extra draw or a scry and an extra draw after a mull to 6, but I'm fine with that.
What do you guys think? Should the die roll be predetermined? How would that even work? Feel free to discuss other topics too, as Sigrist's article did have many morsels in it. (Also, yes, Matt Nass is the worst dude. You cannot argue this.)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)If chess tournaments can do it, Magic can too
As an aside, the fast nature of modern is why I was always a fan of spell snare in blue decks.
Then this is one of the few times that we agree with each other, lol. I do agree that some people will cheat at any chance they can. Look, Alex Bertoncini recently played at my LGS. You best believe that in our match, I'm going to be super careful.
That being said, I'm only behind it IF and only IF it doesn't add more time (and possible work for Judges) to the length of matches. I'm pretty sure that technology nowadays can do it in seconds, but you know Wizards...
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Hell, I bet if WOTC took the time to put resources into that, they could shave significant time off of the events with their current software that looks like something I ran on an iMac in high school.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)for instance i have voiced many times that i hate resolving random discard effects like burning inquiry. its incredibly awkward, time consuming, open to abuse, and often done in a manner that can only loosely be called random.
die rolls are the same way.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Spirits
I think some people will stop at nothing (or many things) in order to win a match of Magic when money is on the line. That's the bottom line.
If you watched Marshall Sutcliffe's video, even the guy who ghosted finally admitted in the end in a post that he was wrong and sorry about it (after he saw the effects of Ghosting). It's just at that moment, can you say no to Ghosting? Can you?
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)ive seen players in online ptqs hide their hand or put a delay on the stream; both of which are trivial to do.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)"Who are you in the darkness, when nobody is watching?"
Yeah, I can say no. Cheating is cheating.
Spirits
So I actually think that random die rolls are a bad way to handle the competitive scene. For MTGO and anything using WER I think that they should track players and rank them (essentially ELO) and give the play to either the higher or lower ranked player, depending on which way you want to argue it.
For casual, I think die rolling is fine.
As far as actually rolling the dice goes, just flipping them over will give you a better chance of winning if the opponent rolled below average. If they rolled above average, shaking them will give you a better chance. If you're less than reputable, let your opponent roll first, and hand them the dice with the high numbers face up. Either they shake and it doesn't matter, or they don't and they roll lower.
wotc has shied away from any true elo ranking. even still that system seems too convoluted. the chess tournament system seems more appropriate, using a weighted system to make it less likely to get a string of bad luck. then they can just indicate play or draw on the pairings list.
an easier method with dice is just having one person roll and the other choose odd or even.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)So 29 plus 70 percent is 99% divide that by 2 and you have basically the 50/50 odds that should occur. It will all equal out in the long run.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I was less than 29% for nearly 3 months of rolling dice. That's 90 days. I've been nearly 70% for April - that's 7 days. That hardly evens out.
And I love when people try to prove that "everyone who rolls dice gets 50% overall in their lifetime." You gotta understand that it's a complete joke to people like me. Whatever makes you sleep at night bud.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)(Edited, thank you for the apology.)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'm not sure where you got these from.
I shouldn't have said the last sentence. It did look like an attack. But there are people that would not believe you if you say that some Magic player has a lifetime 54.63% die roll win percentage. Someone else has a 39.14% die roll win percentage. They would say, "no, everyone with over 500 matches has a 50.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% die roll win percentage. Sorry, I just don't buy that. Math can prove that it's not true. Then they will move onto something else. "Why are you so apt at checking die rolls?" "You should concentrate on your game more." Well, I do. My win percentage is nearly where I want it right now and nearing 70% in Modern. In Standard, lifetime, it IS over 70%. But, that should be unbelievable too, right? Every Magic player has a 50.00 (I'm not doing all those 0s again) % win percentage too.
I don't know if you are one of those people or not. But at least to me, those people who try to prove that everyone has a 50% die roll win percentage, just because it isn't officially tracked, are probably people that win over 50% themselves and are just trying to not realize that they have had some good rolls themselves. It certainly is one of the most minor parts about Magic, but it is one that I'm bringing up right now.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Apology accepted, I will edit my sleight in good faith, please accept mine.
I am not saying everyone will be exactly 50%, but everyone will be close to that number. Statistics don't lie, unless someone is using a loaded die or somehow not rolling from a sufficient height, die rolls are going to even out for the most part over time. Variance is real, it happens. Your recent "good luck" in die rolls is showing that, things will even out normalized over a large sample size. Roll with it.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'll open this can of worms.
No it isn't. A person who streams live is willingly giving out free information to the public. If they are dumb enough or naive enough to think that it won't be used against them, then they deserve what they get. If I sit down and don't hold my hand back far enough to hide the cards and my opponent looks at my hand it isn't their fault, its mine because I was the idiot that didn't hide them well enough. Same difference. If they don't want their opponent to know, don't broadcast it (live stream) to the world. Delay it. End of story.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
This is a terrible take and your corrected metaphor shows it. An opponent isn't glancing at your hand because you're carelessly holding it too far forward; they're actively logging on to twitch to find a stream. That's far more akin to your opponent leaning halfway across the table to see your hand to take advantage of your "carelessness".
Could you (and the streamer) have been more concerned about tipping your hand? Sure. But that doesn't excuse your opponent's behavior.
win percentages are an entirely different animal. there is no set expected value because a bunch of things like skill (yours and your opponent), deck choice, format, etc. the only thing you can say with certainty is that good players win more than they lose. its one of the primary reasons lifetime win percentage isnt really used to rate players for the hall of fame; its the number of high profile tournament finishes.
the only thing i see that makes tracking die rolls worthwhile is how it pertains to the win percentage of a specific deck. some decks perform drastically different on the play vs. draw; legacy rug delver is an example. these types of decks are the reason to be wary of die cheats, because they are cases where you can gain a significant advantage over the course of a tournament.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)You can't have it both ways though. If someone has played a lot of Magic matches in their lifetime, then having a 46.46% die roll percentage could essentially mean losing 5,284 more die rolls than their opponent. That's quite a bit! I do think that the numbers will be somewhat close to 50%, but who's to say that it always is 50.0%? I don't think that life is like that.
*You gotta understand too that I am superstitious and believe in luck. It influences my beliefs. I know people that are like this too. I know people that are NOT like this. Many of my friends think I'm silly.
**Also there are streaks where someone just doesn't seem to win a die roll. You can't minimize their experience by saying that "everyone gets 50%." They're really not trying to hear that at that very time.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)as for ghosting. we could sit here and wax philosophical about morals or integrity, but at the end of the day it doesnt matter. think of it this way. if someone streams a high stakes match without taking any precautions, loses, and then its later found out that the opponent was ghosting - should that player be punished? no, that would be absurd because its something completely removed from the rules of the game and wizards has no place enforcing stuff that is out of their control. is the ghosting player a scumbag? sure.
if its really an issue then wizards will put rules in place for streaming.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Sorry but you aren't even close. My "analogy" (not metaphor) is near dead on and exact. It is called individual accountability. You are responsible for your own actions, known ones and ones you may not be aware of. If your action is actively, knowingly and blatantly broadcasting your actions, the viewer isn't necessarily responsible for your actions. The streamer is. Just more of this snowflake, I'm not responsible for my own actions, entitlement bullcrap that is out there due to lack of correct upbringing and education. In fact I would take it a step farther that the individual who live streams an online game without the consent of the other player is actively harming that player by divulging information about their deck and play style. Now if both parties are in consent of the live stream, then yes the opponent looking at that stream is cheating. But if it is not announced or is clandestine, the burden of stupidity falls on the live streamer.
Leaning over is to view an unviewable hand is cheating. Looking at self televised/broadcast information is not, plain and simple. Why don't professional sports coaches like NFL coaches live stream their play calling and images of their playblook? Would the opponent be on the "honor system" not to view that broadcast. Hell no, they willingly and knowingly gave away that information. If I play with my hand showing on the table for all to see its my own damn fault. Then I would blame my opponent for looking at my hand because I was an idiot and say they were cheating. Please.
Individual accountability plain and simple.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."