Well, I hoped there will be some kind of interactive deck in top 8, like Mardu Pyromancer. This top 8 has no decks of that kind but what can you do. It's also just a top 8 but we don't know yet the bigger picture.
Day 2 numbers looked healthy at least, I wonder what the conversion rates were like.
1. Kellen Pastore - Bogles
2. Matt Grahn - Elves
3. Frank Scaren - Affinity
4. Jonathan Sharp - Bogles
5. Michael Madsen - Amulet Titan
6. Gene Friedman - Burn
7. Matt Nass - KCI
8. Max McVety - Hollow One
On the one hand, Hollow One and Humans didn't do so great. But that is still a really ugly T8.
SFM is an absurd ban.
Well, I hoped there will be some kind of interactive deck in top 8, like Mardu Pyromancer. This top 8 has no decks of that kind but what can you do. It's also just a top 8 but we don't know yet the bigger picture.
I know Blue Moon lost to Burn to miss T8, and value town Company lost to Eggs as well, so I expect the T16/T32 won't be terrible. But the T8 sure sucks.
I can't envision a scenario where I don't advocate an SFM unban for the rest of the year.
I don't know if that top 8 is good or bad, toxic or amazing or something in between....but it sure is STRANGE. KCI in a GP top 8? never thought I'd see the day, lol.
Matt Nass Top 4ed the last GP he played in with Ironworks Combo as well.
It's true. I think ktkenshinx was just focusing on 1 at a time. Patience my friend...
*And I don't know about you guys, but the people I talk to believe that Caw Blade with Stoneforge Mystic destroys this meta. :laughing:
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I think that Jundine finished 16th with Jund (13-2) so that would be another interactive deck next to Blue Moon.
I'm assuming you meant 12-3? I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a 13-2 only getting 16th place. If so, that's sad, outdrawing 13 of 15 opponents (87%) and not top 8ing.
P.S. - My prediction of 1 Pro Player in the top 8 was super wrong. It was double (Frank Skarren and Matt Nass).
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Bogles possibly would. I don't think Company decks, outside of Elves, would. But I know a few Elf players that believe that it would propel Elves to Tier 1. Not sure if that's bad or good (or correct for that part).
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I think people overreacted to the unbannings in regards to dropping Grixis Death's Shadow for other fair decks. Jace and BBE are excellent against other fair decks but not nearly as useful against fields like this one full of the linear strategies GDS preys on. Hopefully we'll see a meta correction.
Bogles possibly would. I don't think Company decks, outside of Elves, would. But I know a few Elf players that believe that it would propel Elves to Tier 1. Not sure if that's bad or good (or correct for that part).
the biggest winner would be green toolbox decks akin to legacy maverick. being able to cut mana dorks, while functionally having more copies of your best creatures in whatever matchup is big. it also makes sideboards much stronger. good tutors really shouldnt be underestimated.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I think people overreacted to the unbannings in regards to dropping Grixis Death's Shadow for other fair decks. Jace and BBE are excellent against other fair decks but not nearly as useful against fields like this one full of the linear strategies GDS preys on. Hopefully we'll see a meta correction.
Going by the numbers presented so far, GDS was in high numbers but didn't put up results.
It's just one event guys. Decks that top8'd did so because they preyed on the most popular/expected decks. Humans was a deck to beat, and it's not in the top8 because players prepared for it.
Nobody was prepared for KCI or Bogles, next tournament will tell another story. To me, this event shows the metagame is adjusting, not that the format is shifting towards an ugly metagame.
About the unbans, I believe GSZ would be a very strong addition to the format, helping Infect, Bogles, potentially other combo decks by being just a bit better than either Chord or Evolution.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Its not just one event though, and the day 2 numbers, were alarmingly high towards these kinds of decks.
I dont want anything banned, far from it. I want the cards that shouldnt be on the banned list, that would do nothing but fight against this type of aggro, to come off.
This isnt the thread for it though.
All told, this event met the predictions of a number of people.
Going by the numbers presented so far, GDS was in high numbers but didn't put up results.
GDS was one of the bottom decks in terms of number played on day 2 not lumped into the "other" category and we don't have conversion rates to know if it was more popular day 1.
I can't be upset that Amulet Titan made it. It's a really fun deck to watch and this tournament could be the last time it performs
well before Damping Sphere.
Bogles is like riding a bike with training wheels.
the biggest winner would be green toolbox decks akin to legacy maverick. being able to cut mana dorks, while functionally having more copies of your best creatures in whatever matchup is big. it also makes sideboards much stronger. good tutors really shouldnt be underestimated.
I'm not underestimating it. It is an incredibly strong card that is as strong in the beginning of the game as it is in the midgame and late game. But Modern is a format of strong cards. When I see people that say it will see play in the place of Chord of Calling and Collected Company, reducing those cards to Meme decks, I just laugh. Do those people even play Modern? Chord has it's own merit, as does CoCo. A few of them may get replaced in some decks, but they will continue to see about as much play as they do now.
There is a Zoo player at my LGS that doesn't believe that Green Sun's Zenith is fine in the current format. That makes me sad, especially since he could add it to his very own deck! P.S. - it's the Zoo player that started Day 2 at Phoenix recently at 8-0 and he posts here too...
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Going by the numbers presented so far, GDS was in high numbers but didn't put up results.
GDS was one of the bottom decks in terms of number played on day 2 not lumped into the "other" category and we don't have conversion rates to know if it was more popular day 1.
Lantern, Grishoalbrand, Ironworks Combo...are all poor matchups for Bogles. I do think that Bogles is pretty well positioned if they can dodge Company decks and their own deck's variance though.
Those aren't positive decks for the format either though. They don't break format rules, but none of those decks are fun to play against.
In your opinion. Whether a deck is good or bad for modern is entirely your opinion, so please state as much. I play modern explicitly because standard is garbage. Your version has us in three color goodstuff shenanigans for years.
My opinion is decks that interact with each other leads towards better Magic. Decks which seek to ignore the opponent lead to a much worse format. That's not to say that there's not room for those types of decks, only that it shouldn't be the go to strategy.
It's just one event guys. Decks that top8'd did so because they preyed on the most popular/expected decks. Humans was a deck to beat, and it's not in the top8 because players prepared for it.
Nobody was prepared for KCI or Bogles, next tournament will tell another story. To me, this event shows the metagame is adjusting, not that the format is shifting towards an ugly metagame.
About the unbans, I believe GSZ would be a very strong addition to the format, helping Infect, Bogles, potentially other combo decks by being just a bit better than either Chord or Evolution.
...It's not.
While the SCG's have been fine, the GP top 8 results in 2018 have been awful.
My opinion is decks that interact with each other leads towards better Magic. Decks which seek to ignore the opponent lead to a much worse format. That's not to say that there's not room for those types of decks, only that it shouldn't be the go to strategy.
Formats solely composed of combos are bad, same as aggro/control/midrange. I will expand on this later when I am sober.
My opinion is decks that interact with each other leads towards better Magic. Decks which seek to ignore the opponent lead to a much worse format. That's not to say that there's not room for those types of decks, only that it shouldn't be the go to strategy.
Formats solely composed of combos are bad, same as aggro/control/midrange. I will expand on this later when I am sober.
So much this!
Deck % is so much less important than archetype %. A format will never be equal %, its just not possible. But I would like to see a top 8 that had more than just non-interactive combo in it.
Formats need to draw people to be good and you draw the most people when each person can play a deck style they like; which doesnt happen in 1-dimensional formats.
People say that the decks that top8 were geared towards beating Humans, but is KCI combo a bad matchup for humans? Haven't played against the deck, but Meddling Mage on the Ironworks is not trivial and Thalia is also a pain (can they combo through her?) and the deck can bring graveyard hate if it feels like it.
Too bad Matt Grahn didn't win. Apparently he went with Relic against graveyards, the one card that KCI can play around. Scavenging Ooze would have been much better, dunno why he went with the artifact.
humans beats up on any combo deck that relies on noncreature spells. honestly i think a big part of matt nass's success is because people just dont know how to play against the deck. its a deck with a lot of moving parts.
ive only played against it a couple of times and i still dont know whats important most of the time. its not hard to imagine many of his opponents had little to no experience with the matchup.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
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Day 2 numbers looked healthy at least, I wonder what the conversion rates were like.
I know Blue Moon lost to Burn to miss T8, and value town Company lost to Eggs as well, so I expect the T16/T32 won't be terrible. But the T8 sure sucks.
I can't envision a scenario where I don't advocate an SFM unban for the rest of the year.
Legacy: UWR Miracles [https://deckstats.net/decks/44442/1092831-uwr-miracles-2]
Matt Nass Top 4ed the last GP he played in with Ironworks Combo as well.
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/4-lessons-from-grand-prix-phoenix/
It's true. I think ktkenshinx was just focusing on 1 at a time. Patience my friend...
*And I don't know about you guys, but the people I talk to believe that Caw Blade with Stoneforge Mystic destroys this meta. :laughing:
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Green Sun's Zenith and Stoneforge Mystic are both safe I think.
I'm assuming you meant 12-3? I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a 13-2 only getting 16th place. If so, that's sad, outdrawing 13 of 15 opponents (87%) and not top 8ing.
P.S. - My prediction of 1 Pro Player in the top 8 was super wrong. It was double (Frank Skarren and Matt Nass).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)It's time to bring back Stoneforge Mystic and Green Sun's Zenith
Would Bogles and/or Amulet Titan play GSZ?
Bogles possibly would. I don't think Company decks, outside of Elves, would. But I know a few Elf players that believe that it would propel Elves to Tier 1. Not sure if that's bad or good (or correct for that part).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)the biggest winner would be green toolbox decks akin to legacy maverick. being able to cut mana dorks, while functionally having more copies of your best creatures in whatever matchup is big. it also makes sideboards much stronger. good tutors really shouldnt be underestimated.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Going by the numbers presented so far, GDS was in high numbers but didn't put up results.
Nobody was prepared for KCI or Bogles, next tournament will tell another story. To me, this event shows the metagame is adjusting, not that the format is shifting towards an ugly metagame.
About the unbans, I believe GSZ would be a very strong addition to the format, helping Infect, Bogles, potentially other combo decks by being just a bit better than either Chord or Evolution.
I dont want anything banned, far from it. I want the cards that shouldnt be on the banned list, that would do nothing but fight against this type of aggro, to come off.
This isnt the thread for it though.
All told, this event met the predictions of a number of people.
Hollow One, Humans, Affinity, and Bogles.
Spirits
This is a wonderful statement. Remember two years ago when dredge and infect were the top decks?
well before Damping Sphere.
Bogles is like riding a bike with training wheels.
I'm not underestimating it. It is an incredibly strong card that is as strong in the beginning of the game as it is in the midgame and late game. But Modern is a format of strong cards. When I see people that say it will see play in the place of Chord of Calling and Collected Company, reducing those cards to Meme decks, I just laugh. Do those people even play Modern? Chord has it's own merit, as does CoCo. A few of them may get replaced in some decks, but they will continue to see about as much play as they do now.
There is a Zoo player at my LGS that doesn't believe that Green Sun's Zenith is fine in the current format. That makes me sad, especially since he could add it to his very own deck! P.S. - it's the Zoo player that started Day 2 at Phoenix recently at 8-0 and he posts here too...
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)That still places it at 2.5% of the metagame.
In your opinion. Whether a deck is good or bad for modern is entirely your opinion, so please state as much. I play modern explicitly because standard is garbage. Your version has us in three color goodstuff shenanigans for years.
...It's not.
While the SCG's have been fine, the GP top 8 results in 2018 have been awful.
Formats solely composed of combos are bad, same as aggro/control/midrange. I will expand on this later when I am sober.
So much this!
Deck % is so much less important than archetype %. A format will never be equal %, its just not possible. But I would like to see a top 8 that had more than just non-interactive combo in it.
Formats need to draw people to be good and you draw the most people when each person can play a deck style they like; which doesnt happen in 1-dimensional formats.
Too bad Matt Grahn didn't win. Apparently he went with Relic against graveyards, the one card that KCI can play around. Scavenging Ooze would have been much better, dunno why he went with the artifact.
ive only played against it a couple of times and i still dont know whats important most of the time. its not hard to imagine many of his opponents had little to no experience with the matchup.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)