I was a bit late in making the thread, it's been a real busy day. Day 1 is already over and here is the Modern breakdown by WotC for the modern portion:
Its regular to a point. I dont believe they have a shared card pool. The only reason it is warped, is because this is what people actually think is best, to not let their team down, instead of playing 'what they want' for fun.
That Vengevine deck is nuts, I'll be interested in seeing the next few weeks of adaptation.
Its regular to a point. I dont believe they have a shared card pool. The only reason it is warped, is because this is what people actually think is best, to not let their team down, instead of playing 'what they want' for fun.
No one plays what they want for fun at a PT anyway. So the Day 1 metagame is just a reflection of what pros thought the best deck would be. The Day 2 and T8 breakdowns will be mostly meaningless as we have no way of knowing which decks from which formats have which records. So basically, this PT has all the usual data shortcomings of a PT with a Limited portion, magnified many times over by the team nature of the event so we literally have no idea how individual Modern decks are doing. Of course, this wont matter for many people who will still make sweeping conclusions from this single event. These will probably be some of the same people who previously said team metas were not good datasets.
I dont know, perhaps we get win rates per person, or per archetype. Obviously if a Modern player could lose every game, and they still Top 4 or whatever, thats an issue.
As to playing the best deck, because of the PT. I dont buy that either. There is a lot of variety, but its pretty tough to say 'yeah I should be on UWR here'.
Someone also commented on one of the KCI players. "If this wasnt a team event, they would not be on that deck".
/shrug. I'm not going to make any sweeping conclusions from this event. All I needed to see was the Day 1 breakdown, and my own experiences.
What went on lol feels like we went from UWR to UW real fast?
And BR seems like MARDU and JUND keep switching poll position as to whether White or Green is the better other option.
A swap towards UW should have happened in paper a few weeks ago, people either want to hold onto Bolts (thats me) or did not feel a reason to respect G-Tron, which is imo, a top 3 deck in the format.
Mardu is a better option than Jund, unless your meta is soft to Goyf I think.
I dont know, perhaps we get win rates per person, or per archetype. Obviously if a Modern player could lose every game, and they still Top 4 or whatever, thats an issue.
As to playing the best deck, because of the PT. I dont buy that either. There is a lot of variety, but its pretty tough to say 'yeah I should be on UWR here'.
Someone also commented on one of the KCI players. "If this wasnt a team event, they would not be on that deck".
/shrug. I'm not going to make any sweeping conclusions from this event. All I needed to see was the Day 1 breakdown, and my own experiences.
I don't think one can defensibly argue that players at the PT are deliberately picking anything but the best deck for them at the event. Same with a GP. This argument was fine at SCG events. It does not make any sense at a GP as we all basically agreed in the past, and it REALLY doesn't make sense at a PT. All these Modern players picked the deck they thought was best positioned to beat the other Modern representatives.
I completely understand that these metagame percentages vs their win ratio will be skewed for the entire event simply based on how Team Constructed works. What I would like to point out though, is that every single one of these decks submitted, essentially have triple the approval rating from the Pro Community, whether directly influencing single card choices, or simply relying passively on your teammates discretion. Each player is trusting the other player and using that as a strength or necessity, and not as a fault.
What went on lol feels like we went from UWR to UW real fast?
And BR seems like MARDU and JUND keep switching poll position as to whether White or Green is the better other option.
PV had an article a few weeks back answering the UW vs UWR question. TL;DR: UW has removal that exiles, PWs removing the need for burn as a wincon, and Field of Ruin.
I completely understand that these metagame percentages vs their win ratio will be skewed for the entire event simply based on how Team Constructed works. What I would like to point out though, is that every single one of these decks submitted, essentially have triple the approval rating from the Pro Community, whether directly influencing single card choices, or simply relying passively on your teammates discretion. Each player is trusting the other player and using that as a strength or necessity, and not as a fault.
This just tells us what pros THINK are good decks, not what are actually good decks. It's not very meaningful because pros miss all the time on that account. See basically every PT in Modern history where there is an oddly skewed metagame and only a few people are playing the best thing.
GP results are significantly more important than a team PT event. No one should be making any strong statements until we get more new Modern GP.
I don't think one can defensibly argue that players at the PT are deliberately picking anything but the best deck for them at the event. Same with a GP. This argument was fine at SCG events. It does not make any sense at a GP as we all basically agreed in the past, and it REALLY doesn't make sense at a PT. All these Modern players picked the deck they thought was best positioned to beat the other Modern representatives.
I think this is true of Modern and Standard. I'm not so sure it's as true of Legacy
It seems silly to me that "modular" affinity is distinct from affinity (especially since "Affinity" has been a misnomer for years). Is there a good reason for doing so?
Vengevine and Hollow One have been pet cards for casual players since it was printed because those nut draws are nuts.Disruptive Shoal is looking like a good card.
if we look at the top 4 decklists, it's interesting that legacy top 4 are all aggro decks, modern has 3 aggro decks in the top 4, the only exception being a combo. and if we look closely, 2 DNT for legacy and 2 humans for modern were primarily "spells stapled to a body" type of decks, and the #1 played card across all 3 formats out of 12 decks is aether vial. it certainly says something.
if we look at the top 4 decklists, it's interesting that legacy top 4 are all aggro decks, modern has 3 aggro decks in the top 4, the only exception being a combo. and if we look closely, 2 DNT for legacy and 2 humans for modern were primarily "spells stapled to a body" type of decks, and the #1 played card across all 3 formats out of 12 decks is aether vial. it certainly says something.
Eldrazi was the only aggro deck in the Legacy Top 4. Death & Taxes is prison, and the Death's Shadow list is tempo (or possibly midrange, but either way it isn't aggro).
if we look at the top 4 decklists, it's interesting that legacy top 4 are all aggro decks, modern has 3 aggro decks in the top 4, the only exception being a combo. and if we look closely, 2 DNT for legacy and 2 humans for modern were primarily "spells stapled to a body" type of decks, and the #1 played card across all 3 formats out of 12 decks is aether vial. it certainly says something.
Eldrazi was the only aggro deck in the Legacy Top 4. Death & Taxes is prison, and the Death's Shadow list is tempo (or possibly midrange, but either way it isn't aggro).
right, DNT is more precisely described as a control deck in legacy, but it certainly leverages its aggro element, by clocking your opponent with creatures while locking them down. and when we say "tempo", what we are really saying is aggro control isn't it? certainly there's a heavy aggro element and disruption element blended in, which is exactly what i'm trying to point out, "spell stapled to a body" type of decks are thriving, maybe a little pushed.
I am looking at the top four and I feel bad for Green...unplayable across three formats apparently besides Stirrings and Noble.
feel sorry for goyf, from format staple to barely played...
I dont think its the Goyf, thats the issue. I mean a competitive removal spell (Push) hurt it, no doubt, but its about the lack of a shell, or put in a better way, the hostility of the decks that currently exist, to existing shells.
M19 cards:
Militia Bugler in Humans (27), Bant Company (2)
Alpine Moon in Mardu (1), UR YP (1), Bridgevine (2), RG Tron (1)
Stitcher's Supplier in Bridgevine (11)
Supreme Phantom in Spirits (8)
Sai, Master Thopterist in KCI (6)
Remorseful Cleric in Spirits (2)
Elvish Clancaller in Elves (1)
P.S. the metagame posted on Day 1 has been edited to provide a full breakdown. If you want to know the 1-of decks which were lumped into "Other", check that out.
Watch coverage for the event is over at Magic's Twitch page.
Follow the events text coverage over on the Mothership.
I was a bit late in making the thread, it's been a real busy day. Day 1 is already over and here is the Modern breakdown by WotC for the modern portion:
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
That Vengevine deck is nuts, I'll be interested in seeing the next few weeks of adaptation.
Spirits
No one plays what they want for fun at a PT anyway. So the Day 1 metagame is just a reflection of what pros thought the best deck would be. The Day 2 and T8 breakdowns will be mostly meaningless as we have no way of knowing which decks from which formats have which records. So basically, this PT has all the usual data shortcomings of a PT with a Limited portion, magnified many times over by the team nature of the event so we literally have no idea how individual Modern decks are doing. Of course, this wont matter for many people who will still make sweeping conclusions from this single event. These will probably be some of the same people who previously said team metas were not good datasets.
As to playing the best deck, because of the PT. I dont buy that either. There is a lot of variety, but its pretty tough to say 'yeah I should be on UWR here'.
Someone also commented on one of the KCI players. "If this wasnt a team event, they would not be on that deck".
/shrug. I'm not going to make any sweeping conclusions from this event. All I needed to see was the Day 1 breakdown, and my own experiences.
Spirits
And BR seems like MARDU and JUND keep switching poll position as to whether White or Green is the better other option.
A swap towards UW should have happened in paper a few weeks ago, people either want to hold onto Bolts (thats me) or did not feel a reason to respect G-Tron, which is imo, a top 3 deck in the format.
Mardu is a better option than Jund, unless your meta is soft to Goyf I think.
Spirits
I don't think one can defensibly argue that players at the PT are deliberately picking anything but the best deck for them at the event. Same with a GP. This argument was fine at SCG events. It does not make any sense at a GP as we all basically agreed in the past, and it REALLY doesn't make sense at a PT. All these Modern players picked the deck they thought was best positioned to beat the other Modern representatives.
M19's got some good Modern-playable cards (Stitcher's Supplier, Supreme Phantom). I'll be interested to see what else gets played.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
This just tells us what pros THINK are good decks, not what are actually good decks. It's not very meaningful because pros miss all the time on that account. See basically every PT in Modern history where there is an oddly skewed metagame and only a few people are playing the best thing.
GP results are significantly more important than a team PT event. No one should be making any strong statements until we get more new Modern GP.
I think this is true of Modern and Standard. I'm not so sure it's as true of Legacy
Vengevine and Hollow One have been pet cards for casual players since it was printed because those nut draws are nuts.Disruptive Shoal is looking like a good card.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
right, DNT is more precisely described as a control deck in legacy, but it certainly leverages its aggro element, by clocking your opponent with creatures while locking them down. and when we say "tempo", what we are really saying is aggro control isn't it? certainly there's a heavy aggro element and disruption element blended in, which is exactly what i'm trying to point out, "spell stapled to a body" type of decks are thriving, maybe a little pushed.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
Spirits
feel sorry for goyf, from format staple to barely played...
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
I dont think its the Goyf, thats the issue. I mean a competitive removal spell (Push) hurt it, no doubt, but its about the lack of a shell, or put in a better way, the hostility of the decks that currently exist, to existing shells.
Spirits
https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/pt25a/pro-tour-25th-anniversary-modern-decklists-2018-08-05
M19 cards:
Militia Bugler in Humans (27), Bant Company (2)
Alpine Moon in Mardu (1), UR YP (1), Bridgevine (2), RG Tron (1)
Stitcher's Supplier in Bridgevine (11)
Supreme Phantom in Spirits (8)
Sai, Master Thopterist in KCI (6)
Remorseful Cleric in Spirits (2)
Elvish Clancaller in Elves (1)
Other interesting stuff:
Corey Burkhart playing (what else?) Grixis Control
Patrick Dickmann playing Bridgevine with maindeck Leylines
Humans with Fourth Bridge Prowler over Gut Shot
Jon Finkel, William Jensen, Seth Manfield, Martin Mueller playing Storm with Pyromancer Ascension main and Fiery Impulse SB (for Meddling Mage? Gifts Ungiven? idk)
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner in Grixis DS SB
Alex Majlaton playing UW instead of Affinity
Affinity with Glint-Nest Crane
Hollow One with Grafted Wargear SB
Titanshift with Hour of Devastation (fat finger? or he doesn't want to lose to Hollow One?)
RG Tron (everyone else is on mono-G)
Mono-G Tron with Gemstone Caverns and Life from the Loam SB
Recap: most-played decks were Humans, UW, KCI, Tron, Hollow One, Vengevine
Tons of Worship SB (11)
More Bant Spirits with Collected Company (6) than UW Spirits with Aether Vial (2)
The Bridgevine lists are all very different, which tells me they are unrefined
There are 30 decks with Opt and 22 with Serum Visions
Faithless Looting count: 36, Ancient Stirrings: 38
No Infernal Reckoning anywhere
P.S. the metagame posted on Day 1 has been edited to provide a full breakdown. If you want to know the 1-of decks which were lumped into "Other", check that out.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I put Hour of Devastation in my Blue Moon deck a few weeks ago, it also rocks against Eldrazi.
Spirits