1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So you want humans to get even better? Containment priest and Sanctum prelate would just be too much imho. Cards do not belong in modern. When blood moon isn't good enough...Back to basics. Not a chance they make this modern legal.
Knowing that these Modern exclusive cards will be officially legal for Commander similar to the case with the recent Global Series with Standard exclusive cards in China, I'm cautiously optimistic about the potential impact it will have on Standard in the long run. Nexus of Fate Turbo Fog in Standard has proved just how much of a mistake the distribution of Buy a Box Promos have become even though it was meant to help local game stores. Wizards of the Coast's recent shift in their design philosophy with Modern exclusive cards seem to be further proof of this.
I feel that this is only going to continue to damage the EV (Expected Value) of Standard legal sets even further since most of the demand will be in these Modern exclusive cards. Commander exclusive cards I can understand since they weren't meant to be played in other formats that end up becoming too degenerate. The last thing Standard needs is the level of mass bannings that we saw during Aether Revolt and Kaladesh with Aetherworks Marvel and Saheeli Rai / Felidar Guardian combo. Hopefully this won't be a repeat of Modern Masters and wallet fatigue.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Basically this would just be an excuse to make more $10 packs travesties like the masters sets.
They can just print the cards for standard I feel. Sometimes you have a card that requires a certain framework to do anything in standard which might be hard to develop but you still want it in modern but these cases are limited. Astral slide would be an example, cool to potentially have in modern but a bit rough to introduce in standard as it would make no sense without proper cycle cards, but designing around that isn't so hard.
I can't think of a single card that is neccesary in modern but can't be introduced to standard. Hatecards like back to basics you don't want in modern anyway, those are crappy design. Other generic strong cards which might be interesting like baleful strix or whatever can be introduced to standard just fine, standard has had over the top strong cards plenty of times. Just give that color combination less strength elsewhere so it doesn't become a dominant deck. Many of these legacy staples, for example brainstorm, aren't even strong in standard anyway.
So you want humans to get even better? Containment priest and Sanctum prelate would just be too much imho. Cards do not belong in modern. When blood moon isn't good enough...Back to basics. Not a chance they make this modern legal.
I'd love to add smokestack to that but that card is pure unfun so it's unlikely haha!
Frankly a ton of commons and uncommons would help spice up the format in fun and new ways.
You keep thinking humans is good when it relies on creatures 100% to operate thanks to the mana. I love playing creature decks because I like blowing stuff up and Finding increasingly creative ways to spread my special form of love. Back to basics gives me even more ways to crush these rainbow heretics to the ground.
... I'm fun at the gaming table?
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I can't think of a single card that is neccesary in modern but can't be introduced to standard. Hatecards like back to basics you don't want in modern anyway, those are crappy design. Other generic strong cards which might be interesting like baleful strix or whatever can be introduced to standard just fine, standard has had over the top strong cards plenty of times. Just give that color combination less strength elsewhere so it doesn't become a dominant deck. Many of these legacy staples, for example brainstorm, aren't even strong in standard anyway.
Different people see different things as "neccesary to modern". Its pretty hard to argue with someone who leaves themselves that large a loophole overall tbh but im an optimist so i'll try anyway.
I firmly believe that the answer Modern badly needs is much stronger land hate. It seems to me that there are a large number of decks that people seem to be grumpy about and are very difficult to counter that revolve around lands. See Tron, Humans etc and in the past Eldrazi, Valakut, Infect and Affinity. This seems like a very obvious line of play as countering lands is really limited/expensive in Modern and a new deck abusing a land (or more) making a name for itself has been a regular Modern occurance for a very long time.
To that note I firmly believe "Wasteland" as necessary to stopping this recurring trend and enabling "fair" decks to fight back more effectively. As a bonus, a good chunk of the banlist is lands too. With much more decent hate some of those could definitely come off.
Good luck getting good land hate through standard.
I can't think of a single card that is neccesary in modern but can't be introduced to standard. Hatecards like back to basics you don't want in modern anyway, those are crappy design. Other generic strong cards which might be interesting like baleful strix or whatever can be introduced to standard just fine, standard has had over the top strong cards plenty of times. Just give that color combination less strength elsewhere so it doesn't become a dominant deck. Many of these legacy staples, for example brainstorm, aren't even strong in standard anyway.
Different people see different things as "neccesary to modern". Its pretty hard to argue with someone who leaves themselves that large a loophole overall tbh but im an optimist so i'll try anyway.
I firmly believe that the answer Modern badly needs is much stronger land hate. It seems to me that there are a large number of decks that people seem to be grumpy about and are very difficult to counter that revolve around lands. See Tron, Humans etc and in the past Eldrazi, Valakut, Infect and Affinity. This seems like a very obvious line of play as countering lands is really limited/expensive in Modern and a new deck abusing a land (or more) making a name for itself has been a regular Modern occurance for a very long time.
To that note I firmly believe "Wasteland" as necessary to stopping this recurring trend and enabling "fair" decks to fight back more effectively. As a bonus, a good chunk of the banlist is lands too. With much more decent hate some of those could definitely come off.
Good luck getting good land hate through standard.
It's not that people see different things are needed for modern as much as everyone sees the same thing but from different angles. What has happened to modern, legacy, and standard is the problem of reasonable access. Wizards of the Coast has long since shifted away from supported constructed formats because they want people to buy new cards at every set. The secondary market kind of built itself as a reaction to wizards of the coast changing their support structure, but much like other businesses that are over saturated, the singles market has turn to running on razor thin margins and is showing just how bad the print policies are at the company. There's basically no mystery why people leave MtG and go play Force of Will, Warhammer, or other hobby games that give more per dollar and have active communities as well.
The only way WoTC is going to revive this game to RTR heights is to do a massive shift in their business model. It's not just reprinting cards, it's capping the price on the cards so they don't go to 50+ dollars in the formats that people are playing. Formats should not be differentiated on price and be broken, under managed nightmares: They should be defined by gameplay.
Edit: And if someone wants to be the guy who says "They print commander! They support constructed! Also they printed Challenger decks!" That is not the support constructed needs. The first was a cash in on what turned out to be a popular format from a business perspective. The latter was a desperate reactionary attempt to save the titanic when two thirds of the ship is already under water.
Support for constructed would be a booster pack product with 36 packs, 5 cards per pack, that contains reprints and new cards specifically designed with constructed in mind. Probably 3 uncommon and 2 rare with an optional mythic, sold at 120 msrp. They get bonus points if they have full art foils of the cards so that there is one in every 5 packs. Even as a modern player I'd buy packs if there is a zero loss proposition from purchasing the packs. At worse, you get some card for a deck that you aren't playing and can actively trade it for something you do need. Kind of like how a trading card game is supposed to work.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
To do modern legal sets would also enable cards for Legacy. There is a tension there, though, they already release Legacy specifics via Commander, Legacy players may feel a bit picked on by constant releases of non standard supplemental stuff they need to acquire, especially if if contains cards like TNN which people feel was badly designed fir Legacy (full disclosure I am OK with it).
I like the idea of modern legal sets, though.
Perhaps a once every two years release of a large masters replacement set with new cards in there as well, aiding draft and plugging holes in the format with new and pre 8th edition cards, but selling at 5 dollars a pack with mass release. Collectors would have to get it for new cards, some would be Legacy playable (especially Turbo Xerox hosers) further increasing demand, standard players could still draft it. It would be a way of reprinting cards at slightly premium levels, but also a way of slipping in important cards.
FANTASY Bit.....
Cards I would want from pre 8th
Primal Order
Static Orb
Stasis
Sinkhole
Smokestack
E tutor
W tutor
Nevs disk
Wasteland
Cursed totem
Of course many people will look at these and go "ugh" but that illustrates the point that it will be hard to satisfy us all, I genuinely enjoy these cards and don't want to see piles of etb trigger dudes get printed in such a set, as they surely would.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I'm a little confused. Wasn't this exact product called Modern Masters? We had 3 sets of them and they sold as Modern only boosters. Why reinvent the wheel? Maybe I'm missing something, help me out.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'm a little confused. Wasn't this exact product called Modern Masters? We had 3 sets of them and they sold as Modern only boosters. Why reinvent the wheel? Maybe I'm missing something, help me out.
The survey mentions boosters with cards being added to the Modern card pool that bypass Standard. Every Modern Masters set to date has been comprised of reprints that were already legal in the format. This would mean reprints of cards that aren't currently Modern legal but could be, as well as entirely new cards that wouldn't be concerned with Standard's power level.
The issue with this is that unless the print runs rival a standard set, modern may not see an adequate supply of a much needed staple for a new archetype. Cards created for the sole purpose of being introduced into modern plus the limited print runs they like to do could be nexus of fate levels of frustrating for players. If they do print the crap out of it and get new cards into the hands of the consumer (stop distribution channel from breaking it down into parts due to sheer quantity) then the reprint equity of actual reprints we need could crater. Put a limited wash over the set and I can't see how this product is going to hit its target. There are just too many balls to juggle imho. The set needs to essentially:
1. deliver new cards that prop up tier 2-3 strats without bolstering t1 strats and throwing the modern meta out of whack.
2. deliver on the promised reprints we really do need (this is coming from someone with a significant modern collection).
3. hope that there is some semblance of a limited environment so they can justify price and keep repeat customers on a weekly basis.
4. print to demand without over saturation.
5. do all of the aforementioned without relying on gimmicks like alt art, a foil in every pack, as-fan targets, weird limited balancing rules, masterpieces that skew a sets value and makes it more like a scratch off card than a game.
6. make a set desirable enough that players want to buy it but not so good that the product doesn't make it through the distribution channel (my LGS in particular is always withholding product because the game appreciates so quickly - which is super frustrating because it bottlenecks an already limited supply on supplemental sets).
7. reprint cards in a way that demotivates the market from shifting that price entirely to the next oldest card in a given archetype. We've seen this OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Printing 1 piece to a modern deck every 1-2 years isn't enough, stagger 2-3 pieces over several releases so speculators learn their lesson and stop pump/dump or hoarding and waiting for huge price swings.
They got a lot of reasons to go for a modern booster pack product to introduce new cards to modern. Not the least of which is the attempt to combat the couterfits running amok due to the reserved list. Even existing modern legal cards are getting heavily bootlegged and pawned off to unsuspecting players, and as prices rise, so too does the potential profit from selling fake cards. It also lets them bring cards from legacy that can make modern more resilient to new cards entering the pool. Force of Will is practically useless in modern at the moment, since the game is designed around not allowing anyone to win before turn 4. However, if they print a strong combo piece, having FoW in modern would mitigate a lot of it's teeth.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
They got a lot of reasons to go for a modern booster pack product to introduce new cards to modern. Not the least of which is the attempt to combat the couterfits running amok due to the reserved list. Even existing modern legal cards are getting heavily bootlegged and pawned off to unsuspecting players, and as prices rise, so too does the potential profit from selling fake cards. It also lets them bring cards from legacy that can make modern more resilient to new cards entering the pool. Force of Will is practically useless in modern at the moment, since the game is designed around not allowing anyone to win before turn 4. However, if they print a strong combo piece, having FoW in modern would mitigate a lot of it's teeth.
The other good reason to push this product is to make money from a crowd they otherwise don't profit from much. I think Wizards has come to realize, over the past 1-2 years, that Standard's business model only goes so far and they need to monetize the non-rotating formats they can. They can't do this with Legacy because of the RL. Commander has a similar problem but they can still monetize it as much as possible, and those products have clearly been successful. Now it's time for them to do this with Modern.
They really just need to print better cards in standard. All modern cards were standard once. If they print modern only new cards with standard level print run , it would just simply be a new standard called by another name. If they do not, and it is more limited... then yes we have a whole set of nexus of fate... imagine that
They really just need to print better cards in standard. All modern cards were standard once. If they print modern only new cards with standard level print run , it would just simply be a new standard called by another name. If they do not, and it is more limited... then yes we have a whole set of nexus of fate... imagine that
The continuing problem with this is that most of the cards that we need to be in standard sets that will impact modern end up being fairly degenerate in standard. Thoughtseize, mutavault, Search for Azcanta, Teferi - these cards are so powerful they warp standards, but basically define the floor of what it takes to impact our format at this point. Eventually they'll run out of non-warping design space and yet will still need to interact with modern outside of bans/unbans (to retain community enjoyment of the format). This product (theoretically) allows them to do this.
They really just need to print better cards in standard. All modern cards were standard once. If they print modern only new cards with standard level print run , it would just simply be a new standard called by another name. If they do not, and it is more limited... then yes we have a whole set of nexus of fate... imagine that
The continuing problem with this is that most of the cards that we need to be in standard sets that will impact modern end up being fairly degenerate in standard. Thoughtseize, mutavault, Search for Azcanta, Teferi - these cards are so powerful they warp standards, but basically define the floor of what it takes to impact our format at this point. Eventually they'll run out of non-warping design space and yet will still need to interact with modern outside of bans/unbans (to retain community enjoyment of the format). This product (theoretically) allows them to do this.
there is a pretty big difference between standard warping cards, and cards that standard simply revolves around; which is inevitable. the idea that they will run out of design space for cards that impact modern doesnt hold water when a decently sized pool of playables comes with every set; some of which arent even relevant in standard.
modern getting plenty of new toys regularly and standard being good/healthy/whatever arent mutually exclusive. its only more recently when standard has been considered a dumpster fire when people more easily recognize the glaringly obvious pushed cards. if and or when wizards ever gets their act together to make a really good standard format, it wont be because they have toned down the number of cards expected to impact non-rotating formats.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Standard is broken from every perspective, nothing will save it. The whole mtg ecosystem is set up to disseminate information so fast that the only way to have a balanced ecosystem is one where every resource can be attacked- hands (discard) Lands (landkill) spell costs (3 sphere type cards), activated abilities (supp field), libraries (mill and cap effects) creatures in play (wraiths) , etb creatures yet to be cast (humility), bins, critters, planeswalkers etc. They will never do that because every resource being a target frustrates newbies (as well as some who should know better), meaning in reality combat and creatures the gathering is all they will promote in Standard, whilst attempting to lure in players with the mentality of 14 year olds who expect instant gratification in games with zero frustration.
In reality Modern has been made with a number of super powerful cards like Snappy, Vial, Thought seize etc. that are not shared fairly in all colours, leaving a very skewed color pie where counters are weaker than they should be, discard is strong, creatures have to be front loaded, and landkill is short on punishing the greedy due to no wastelands.
The only way they will make progress on Std or Modern is to get rid of the "our data says players like x" approach. Such an approach leads to what we have seen in standard. It is this approach that stops them running cards like Thoughtseize through Standard. Until they understand that many of the people they canvass won't play Standard whatever, or that many will quit soon regardless, they won't get usable data.
Standard is broken from every perspective, nothing will save it. The whole mtg ecosystem is set up to disseminate information so fast that the only way to have a balanced ecosystem is one where every resource can be attacked- hands (discard) Lands (landkill) spell costs (3 sphere type cards), activated abilities (supp field), libraries (mill and cap effects) creatures in play (wraiths) , etb creatures yet to be cast (humility), bins, critters, planeswalkers etc. They will never do that because every resource being a target frustrates newbies (as well as some who should know better), meaning in reality combat and creatures the gathering is all they will promote in Standard, whilst attempting to lure in players with the mentality of 14 year olds who expect instant gratification in games with zero frustration.
In reality Modern has been made with a number of super powerful cards like Snappy, Vial, Thought seize etc. that are not shared fairly in all colours, leaving a very skewed color pie where counters are weaker than they should be, discard is strong, creatures have to be front loaded, and landkill is short on punishing the greedy due to no wastelands. The only way they will make progress on Std or Modern is to get rid of the "our data says players like x" approach. Such an approach leads to what we have seen in standard. It is this approach that stops them running cards like Thoughtseize through Standard. Until they understand that many of the people they canvass won't play Standard whatever, or that many will quit soon regardless, they won't get usable data.
The biggest opponents of cards like Thoughtseize are the pros who have to slog through standard seasons with it. The overwhelming sentiment from nearly every pro I saw when Theros rotated out went something like 'Thank GOD we don't have to think about Thoughtseize every game any longer.' It's an obnoxious magic card, not just to 14 year olds.
Also, there is a creature-less tier 1 deck in Standard right now. I don't even like standard, but I'm so sick of the 'hurr-durr midrange creatures' argument as to why standard is 'bad'. Standard is what it is - the format that comes about as the result of a smaller card pool. This thread though, is about why modern could use some cards that are beyond where wizards wants standard to be, not a standard slam fest.
I'd be okay with it as long as the price was $6.99 or less for a pack and it had cards equivalent more to the original Modern Masters as opposed to the more recent Iconic and Masters 25.
Would be a way for Wizards to try to dig into Modern players pockets that won't buy Standard packs/boxes.
Sounds good on paper but I don't have any faith that Wizards will execute it correctly. On top of that the product needs to be out NOW, not in 2 years as the product hits the shelves.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'd be okay with it as long as the price was $6.99 or less for a pack and it had cards equivalent more to the original Modern Masters as opposed to the more recent Iconic and Masters 25.
Would be a way for Wizards to try to dig into Modern players pockets that won't buy Standard packs/boxes.
Sounds good on paper but I don't have any faith that Wizards will execute it correctly. On top of that the product needs to be out NOW, not in 2 years as the product hits the shelves.
I'm suspecting if they release a product for modern like Battlebond or Conspiracy, it will be the going rate of current standard booster packs. It's mostly because they probably will do the card selection similar to the ratio we saw in core 2019. So probably half of it reprints and the other half new cards. It does mean fewer reprints per set, but it also means that it should be easier to get the cards from the set due to the box price being lower.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Standard is broken from every perspective, nothing will save it. The whole mtg ecosystem is set up to disseminate information so fast that the only way to have a balanced ecosystem is one where every resource can be attacked- hands (discard) Lands (landkill) spell costs (3 sphere type cards), activated abilities (supp field), libraries (mill and cap effects) creatures in play (wraiths) , etb creatures yet to be cast (humility), bins, critters, planeswalkers etc. They will never do that because every resource being a target frustrates newbies (as well as some who should know better), meaning in reality combat and creatures the gathering is all they will promote in Standard, whilst attempting to lure in players with the mentality of 14 year olds who expect instant gratification in games with zero frustration.
In reality Modern has been made with a number of super powerful cards like Snappy, Vial, Thought seize etc. that are not shared fairly in all colours, leaving a very skewed color pie where counters are weaker than they should be, discard is strong, creatures have to be front loaded, and landkill is short on punishing the greedy due to no wastelands.
The only way they will make progress on Std or Modern is to get rid of the "our data says players like x" approach. Such an approach leads to what we have seen in standard. It is this approach that stops them running cards like Thoughtseize through Standard. Until they understand that many of the people they canvass won't play Standard whatever, or that many will quit soon regardless, they won't get usable data.
I agree with everything you say here well kinda, i believe magic in totality would have all the aspects you mentioned and maybe more. It used to be that standard provides the new frontier, many of the old blocks when they were new was when magic was at its nascent stage. Hence exploration in to artifacts only or creatures only etc. Which was not too tenable then they create planes as a theme they can rehash and rehash. But making good cards is a choice. Balancing the evironment so that good cards are the norm is a choice (as is making the environment weak which is what they have been doing). Standard used the be the frontier where new tech is found, it can still be (and in many ways i feel it still is, its just that the current relatively vocal players online are unhappy with the "throw a bone" rate at which strong enough cards are delivered)
I'd be okay with it as long as the price was $6.99 or less for a pack and it had cards equivalent more to the original Modern Masters as opposed to the more recent Iconic and Masters 25.
Would be a way for Wizards to try to dig into Modern players pockets that won't buy Standard packs/boxes.
Sounds good on paper but I don't have any faith that Wizards will execute it correctly. On top of that the product needs to be out NOW, not in 2 years as the product hits the shelves.
I'm suspecting if they release a product for modern like Battlebond or Conspiracy, it will be the going rate of current standard booster packs. It's mostly because they probably will do the card selection similar to the ratio we saw in core 2019. So probably half of it reprints and the other half new cards. It does mean fewer reprints per set, but it also means that it should be easier to get the cards from the set due to the box price being lower.
If that scenario plays out, I'd be okay with the price, but I foresee a lot of chaff reprints ala Tree of Redemption and very few decent playable value reprints with a couple of the usual lottery mythics. I want it to happen, but I want it to offer some value both monetarily and in play value. I don't want to see a set worse than Iconic/M25. Time will tell I suppose.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I think introducing new cards to the Modern card pool seems like it could be a pretty cool idea if they can find a way to to quality playtesting before releasing the new cards, or even before releasing existing cards that are not currently legal. I am definitely concerned about the potential for power creep in the format.
EDIT: I thought MMA and MM3 were both pretty amazingly good sets. They did great, right? That model for reprinting existing cards seems pretty well-pitched to me, as long as the set is draftable also. At one point I was concerned that WoTC would use up their reprint equity by doing so many Masters releases, but the prices in the format suggest that they have a way to go before that really becomes a concern.
Any entirely new cards or reprints of cards that aren't currently Modern legal have solid chances of establishing or increasing equity for anything that ends up a format staple. Toss in a number of in-demand reprints ala the Modern Masters sets to guarantee a baseline and you'd have a real recipe for success. From a business standpoint, I'm actually surprised Wizards hasn't done this already.
Any entirely new cards or reprints of cards that aren't currently Modern legal have solid chances of establishing or increasing equity for anything that ends up a format staple. Toss in a number of in-demand reprints ala the Modern Masters sets to guarantee a baseline and you'd have a real recipe for success. From a business standpoint, I'm actually surprised Wizards hasn't done this already.
I believe the problem is just convincing company management that it is worth it to try and sell to the Living Card Game long term players. Even though the cards used in modern and legacy are worth a lot on the second hand market, they also don't sell as fast as a new card since many players already in modern have the cards they need to play. It costs WoTC the same amount of money to print an 80 dollar card as a 10 cent card, but when doing the print runs it probably is cheaper to produce an extremely large quantity of a product and sell it at a lower price than print less of a product and sell it higher. There's likely a baseline cost to the printing process as far as electricity, ink, materials, packing, etc, are concerned.
Under those conditions, I can see how it would make sense to keep making standard sets and new cards vs trying to reprint older cards.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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Also Brightling, because I love the artwork and the abilities are amazing on it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'd like to see things like Hesitation, Stifle, Standstill, Astral Slide, Veteran Explorer, Wall of Blossoms, Baleful Strix, Shardless Agent, Sterling Grove, Thran Dynamo.
I'd love to add smokestack to that but that card is pure unfun so it's unlikely haha!
Frankly a ton of commons and uncommons would help spice up the format in fun and new ways.
I feel that this is only going to continue to damage the EV (Expected Value) of Standard legal sets even further since most of the demand will be in these Modern exclusive cards. Commander exclusive cards I can understand since they weren't meant to be played in other formats that end up becoming too degenerate. The last thing Standard needs is the level of mass bannings that we saw during Aether Revolt and Kaladesh with Aetherworks Marvel and Saheeli Rai / Felidar Guardian combo. Hopefully this won't be a repeat of Modern Masters and wallet fatigue.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
They can just print the cards for standard I feel. Sometimes you have a card that requires a certain framework to do anything in standard which might be hard to develop but you still want it in modern but these cases are limited. Astral slide would be an example, cool to potentially have in modern but a bit rough to introduce in standard as it would make no sense without proper cycle cards, but designing around that isn't so hard.
I can't think of a single card that is neccesary in modern but can't be introduced to standard. Hatecards like back to basics you don't want in modern anyway, those are crappy design. Other generic strong cards which might be interesting like baleful strix or whatever can be introduced to standard just fine, standard has had over the top strong cards plenty of times. Just give that color combination less strength elsewhere so it doesn't become a dominant deck. Many of these legacy staples, for example brainstorm, aren't even strong in standard anyway.
You keep thinking humans is good when it relies on creatures 100% to operate thanks to the mana. I love playing creature decks because I like blowing stuff up and Finding increasingly creative ways to spread my special form of love. Back to basics gives me even more ways to crush these rainbow heretics to the ground.
... I'm fun at the gaming table?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Different people see different things as "neccesary to modern". Its pretty hard to argue with someone who leaves themselves that large a loophole overall tbh but im an optimist so i'll try anyway.
I firmly believe that the answer Modern badly needs is much stronger land hate. It seems to me that there are a large number of decks that people seem to be grumpy about and are very difficult to counter that revolve around lands. See Tron, Humans etc and in the past Eldrazi, Valakut, Infect and Affinity. This seems like a very obvious line of play as countering lands is really limited/expensive in Modern and a new deck abusing a land (or more) making a name for itself has been a regular Modern occurance for a very long time.
To that note I firmly believe "Wasteland" as necessary to stopping this recurring trend and enabling "fair" decks to fight back more effectively. As a bonus, a good chunk of the banlist is lands too. With much more decent hate some of those could definitely come off.
Good luck getting good land hate through standard.
It's not that people see different things are needed for modern as much as everyone sees the same thing but from different angles. What has happened to modern, legacy, and standard is the problem of reasonable access. Wizards of the Coast has long since shifted away from supported constructed formats because they want people to buy new cards at every set. The secondary market kind of built itself as a reaction to wizards of the coast changing their support structure, but much like other businesses that are over saturated, the singles market has turn to running on razor thin margins and is showing just how bad the print policies are at the company. There's basically no mystery why people leave MtG and go play Force of Will, Warhammer, or other hobby games that give more per dollar and have active communities as well.
The only way WoTC is going to revive this game to RTR heights is to do a massive shift in their business model. It's not just reprinting cards, it's capping the price on the cards so they don't go to 50+ dollars in the formats that people are playing. Formats should not be differentiated on price and be broken, under managed nightmares: They should be defined by gameplay.
Edit: And if someone wants to be the guy who says "They print commander! They support constructed! Also they printed Challenger decks!" That is not the support constructed needs. The first was a cash in on what turned out to be a popular format from a business perspective. The latter was a desperate reactionary attempt to save the titanic when two thirds of the ship is already under water.
Support for constructed would be a booster pack product with 36 packs, 5 cards per pack, that contains reprints and new cards specifically designed with constructed in mind. Probably 3 uncommon and 2 rare with an optional mythic, sold at 120 msrp. They get bonus points if they have full art foils of the cards so that there is one in every 5 packs. Even as a modern player I'd buy packs if there is a zero loss proposition from purchasing the packs. At worse, you get some card for a deck that you aren't playing and can actively trade it for something you do need. Kind of like how a trading card game is supposed to work.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I like the idea of modern legal sets, though.
Perhaps a once every two years release of a large masters replacement set with new cards in there as well, aiding draft and plugging holes in the format with new and pre 8th edition cards, but selling at 5 dollars a pack with mass release. Collectors would have to get it for new cards, some would be Legacy playable (especially Turbo Xerox hosers) further increasing demand, standard players could still draft it. It would be a way of reprinting cards at slightly premium levels, but also a way of slipping in important cards.
FANTASY Bit.....
Cards I would want from pre 8th
Primal Order
Static Orb
Stasis
Sinkhole
Smokestack
E tutor
W tutor
Nevs disk
Wasteland
Cursed totem
Of course many people will look at these and go "ugh" but that illustrates the point that it will be hard to satisfy us all, I genuinely enjoy these cards and don't want to see piles of etb trigger dudes get printed in such a set, as they surely would.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The survey mentions boosters with cards being added to the Modern card pool that bypass Standard. Every Modern Masters set to date has been comprised of reprints that were already legal in the format. This would mean reprints of cards that aren't currently Modern legal but could be, as well as entirely new cards that wouldn't be concerned with Standard's power level.
1. deliver new cards that prop up tier 2-3 strats without bolstering t1 strats and throwing the modern meta out of whack.
2. deliver on the promised reprints we really do need (this is coming from someone with a significant modern collection).
3. hope that there is some semblance of a limited environment so they can justify price and keep repeat customers on a weekly basis.
4. print to demand without over saturation.
5. do all of the aforementioned without relying on gimmicks like alt art, a foil in every pack, as-fan targets, weird limited balancing rules, masterpieces that skew a sets value and makes it more like a scratch off card than a game.
6. make a set desirable enough that players want to buy it but not so good that the product doesn't make it through the distribution channel (my LGS in particular is always withholding product because the game appreciates so quickly - which is super frustrating because it bottlenecks an already limited supply on supplemental sets).
7. reprint cards in a way that demotivates the market from shifting that price entirely to the next oldest card in a given archetype. We've seen this OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Printing 1 piece to a modern deck every 1-2 years isn't enough, stagger 2-3 pieces over several releases so speculators learn their lesson and stop pump/dump or hoarding and waiting for huge price swings.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The other good reason to push this product is to make money from a crowd they otherwise don't profit from much. I think Wizards has come to realize, over the past 1-2 years, that Standard's business model only goes so far and they need to monetize the non-rotating formats they can. They can't do this with Legacy because of the RL. Commander has a similar problem but they can still monetize it as much as possible, and those products have clearly been successful. Now it's time for them to do this with Modern.
Reality is but a perception of your being --
Visit my blog!!! - http://huffalump-magic.blogspot.com/
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The one the other will include
With ease, and you beside."
—Emily Dickinson
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881
Oooh Dicey:
[dice=1]100[/dice]
The continuing problem with this is that most of the cards that we need to be in standard sets that will impact modern end up being fairly degenerate in standard. Thoughtseize, mutavault, Search for Azcanta, Teferi - these cards are so powerful they warp standards, but basically define the floor of what it takes to impact our format at this point. Eventually they'll run out of non-warping design space and yet will still need to interact with modern outside of bans/unbans (to retain community enjoyment of the format). This product (theoretically) allows them to do this.
there is a pretty big difference between standard warping cards, and cards that standard simply revolves around; which is inevitable. the idea that they will run out of design space for cards that impact modern doesnt hold water when a decently sized pool of playables comes with every set; some of which arent even relevant in standard.
modern getting plenty of new toys regularly and standard being good/healthy/whatever arent mutually exclusive. its only more recently when standard has been considered a dumpster fire when people more easily recognize the glaringly obvious pushed cards. if and or when wizards ever gets their act together to make a really good standard format, it wont be because they have toned down the number of cards expected to impact non-rotating formats.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)In reality Modern has been made with a number of super powerful cards like Snappy, Vial, Thought seize etc. that are not shared fairly in all colours, leaving a very skewed color pie where counters are weaker than they should be, discard is strong, creatures have to be front loaded, and landkill is short on punishing the greedy due to no wastelands.
The only way they will make progress on Std or Modern is to get rid of the "our data says players like x" approach. Such an approach leads to what we have seen in standard. It is this approach that stops them running cards like Thoughtseize through Standard. Until they understand that many of the people they canvass won't play Standard whatever, or that many will quit soon regardless, they won't get usable data.
The biggest opponents of cards like Thoughtseize are the pros who have to slog through standard seasons with it. The overwhelming sentiment from nearly every pro I saw when Theros rotated out went something like 'Thank GOD we don't have to think about Thoughtseize every game any longer.' It's an obnoxious magic card, not just to 14 year olds.
Also, there is a creature-less tier 1 deck in Standard right now. I don't even like standard, but I'm so sick of the 'hurr-durr midrange creatures' argument as to why standard is 'bad'. Standard is what it is - the format that comes about as the result of a smaller card pool. This thread though, is about why modern could use some cards that are beyond where wizards wants standard to be, not a standard slam fest.
I'd be okay with it as long as the price was $6.99 or less for a pack and it had cards equivalent more to the original Modern Masters as opposed to the more recent Iconic and Masters 25.
Would be a way for Wizards to try to dig into Modern players pockets that won't buy Standard packs/boxes.
Sounds good on paper but I don't have any faith that Wizards will execute it correctly. On top of that the product needs to be out NOW, not in 2 years as the product hits the shelves.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'm suspecting if they release a product for modern like Battlebond or Conspiracy, it will be the going rate of current standard booster packs. It's mostly because they probably will do the card selection similar to the ratio we saw in core 2019. So probably half of it reprints and the other half new cards. It does mean fewer reprints per set, but it also means that it should be easier to get the cards from the set due to the box price being lower.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I agree with everything you say here well kinda, i believe magic in totality would have all the aspects you mentioned and maybe more. It used to be that standard provides the new frontier, many of the old blocks when they were new was when magic was at its nascent stage. Hence exploration in to artifacts only or creatures only etc. Which was not too tenable then they create planes as a theme they can rehash and rehash. But making good cards is a choice. Balancing the evironment so that good cards are the norm is a choice (as is making the environment weak which is what they have been doing). Standard used the be the frontier where new tech is found, it can still be (and in many ways i feel it still is, its just that the current relatively vocal players online are unhappy with the "throw a bone" rate at which strong enough cards are delivered)
Reality is but a perception of your being --
Visit my blog!!! - http://huffalump-magic.blogspot.com/
"The brain is wider than the sky,
For, put them side by side,
The one the other will include
With ease, and you beside."
—Emily Dickinson
For sales or trade, visit my blog or visit my ebay blog for my listings :http://myworld.ebay.com/arcane7828
881
Oooh Dicey:
[dice=1]100[/dice]
If that scenario plays out, I'd be okay with the price, but I foresee a lot of chaff reprints ala Tree of Redemption and very few decent playable value reprints with a couple of the usual lottery mythics. I want it to happen, but I want it to offer some value both monetarily and in play value. I don't want to see a set worse than Iconic/M25. Time will tell I suppose.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
EDIT: I thought MMA and MM3 were both pretty amazingly good sets. They did great, right? That model for reprinting existing cards seems pretty well-pitched to me, as long as the set is draftable also. At one point I was concerned that WoTC would use up their reprint equity by doing so many Masters releases, but the prices in the format suggest that they have a way to go before that really becomes a concern.
I believe the problem is just convincing company management that it is worth it to try and sell to the Living Card Game long term players. Even though the cards used in modern and legacy are worth a lot on the second hand market, they also don't sell as fast as a new card since many players already in modern have the cards they need to play. It costs WoTC the same amount of money to print an 80 dollar card as a 10 cent card, but when doing the print runs it probably is cheaper to produce an extremely large quantity of a product and sell it at a lower price than print less of a product and sell it higher. There's likely a baseline cost to the printing process as far as electricity, ink, materials, packing, etc, are concerned.
Under those conditions, I can see how it would make sense to keep making standard sets and new cards vs trying to reprint older cards.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!