In addition to the assumptions about the survey results, the idea that a (Q4) 2018 survey would inform a 2019 set is presumptuous. WoTC has a 2 year development cycle for most of its major products, which makes the idea of a less than a full year turnaround incredibly suspect. Wistful thinking is the lifeblood of speculation for MTG, but there is just no way a set for Modern that contains many new cards will come out next year unless it had already been in the works for a while by the time the survey came out. If the non-standard set MaRo mentioned is a full-scale, draftable, ~250 card product, then it will most likely be a casual-friendly product along the lines of Unstable and Battlebond. As MaRo excluded RNA from the three sets due to iteration, I expect an annual product such as Commander would not be among the three as well.
It is admittedly a bit presumptuous to assume that a survey from last August would directly affect a product release less than a year later. There is a very healthy chance that this supplemental set turns out to be something else. That said, Wizards has been making a fair amount of last-minute changes recently; see how Ultimate Masters went from being a graveyard-themed Masters set to the last of its kind, not to mention any of the tournament structure changes and reversals.
What we do know is that as late as last summer, Wizards was interested in the idea of cards bypassing Standard and making it directly into Modern. My guess is that with the Masters sets going away that this will be the replacement, at least this once. They're likely tweaking the idea of new-to-Modern reprints and entirely new cards into what would have been this summer's themed Masters set. What was the time it took for Wizards to announce themed Masters sets, then change what would have been their second into Ultimate Masters? They announced the themed Masters sets on February 22 of last year, so in less than ten months they had both altered and released the next one. I could very easily see something similar happening here, especially if they had already developed most of the new cards and reprints for the format. New prints for Modern also means new cards for Commander/Legacy/Vintage as well, so there's even more appeal for other formats than traditional Modern Masters sets had.
Even if it doesn't happen this year (again, a distinct possibility), it's really only a matter of time. We know they are interested in the idea, and there's a vacuum to be filled from the exit of traditional Masters sets that taps into the lucrative Modern market. With MaRo's excitement about paving new ground, it's hard to imagine it being a retread of anything we've seen, like another Un-set or Battlebond 2. I do agree that Wizards will design whatever for draft like you mentioned, as they have been consistent with this outside of preconstructed decks. It could be just about anything, but we have more clues pointing toward a Modern-focused set than anything else at the moment, and Wizards has already demonstrated working in the kinds of time tables that would make this possible.
Things I'd hope for entering Modern from sets like this:
I'd hope for Containment Priest or maybe a non-human variant on it to avoid more human tribal power ups.
Wall of Blossoms, as well as a blue variant on that theme (Blossoms, Wall of Omens) possibly with flying/reach as an extra since defensive creatures and card draw are already both in blue's color pie (whereas card draw isn't as much in white's, and defensive creatures isn't as much in green's).
Counterspell and/or a counter that counters things 3 cmc or less. If not counterspell, then I'd expect the 3 cmc or less targeting one to be UU, if both, then I'd expect the cmc 3 or less one to be 1U.
I have long argued that there should be such sets. Often met with scorn, dismissal and worse, but there it is - even WotC has evidently been considering the possibility. Hadn’t even seen this until now.
Here’s hoping it does happen. Just what the format needs.
Hopefully, it should happen.
This would also probably bring down prices if modern staples get reprinted in this theoretical modern only set that is not legal in standard.
Let's be realistic: If this set does come to pass, it won't be as the savior of high secondary market prices for format staples any more than the Masters sets were. Originally, I thought this hypothetical set wouldn't command a premium price, as it would be directly competing with the Masters sets. Since Wizards has discontinued them for the foreseeable future though, I can't imagine a set targeted primarily at Modern players going for less than $10 a pack.
The real angle this set would have is that it could reinvigorate equity of some older cards, while also offering new cards to Modern/Legacy/Vintage/Commander players. No traditional Masters set could do either of these things, so as long as they stick with what was popular with them (great draft environment, desired format staples), this fresh experience will make the set at least popular enough to justify trying it once.
There are really only a handful of cards they could even print through a modern only set that I can see coming to fruition. Yes the set solves issues of the core 2019 awkwardness of amulet of safety, isolate and infernal reckoning but those could have all been uncommons with minimal set impact - like damping sphere.
The power level on multicolored 3 cmc cards is already quite high in standard. kolaghan's command and savage knuckleblade didn't blow standard wide open. The majority of UW vial spirits creature base was in standard at one time...and was fine. spell queller didn't warp standard like emrakul, the promised end or even felidar guardian - but it's better in modern. But if dropping cards like isolate is what this is going to be about, it's a hard pass for me. I can't see them printing an entire product without a chase card though - why make something that won't sell?
So what 1 or 2 cmc cards would I even be interested in? counterspell, a decent 1 drop for faeries, birchlore rangers, containment priest, annnnnnnd a force of will variant that doesn't suck as bad as foil or disrupting shoal. That's literally it, as I think the more interesting build around cards can be fine for standard if they are priced well enough.
What I'm not okay with is bottleneck supply for new tournament staples. Even if supply is sufficient there is price memory and human emotions that enter the fray. Look at nexus of fate, which I believe Maro stated has more copies in circulation than any other mythic in the set - the apparent scarcity is fabricated by the secondary market, people giving into impulses, and EDH demand.
There are really only a handful of cards they could even print through a modern only set that I can see coming to fruition. Yes the set solves issues of the core 2019 awkwardness of amulet of safety, isolate and infernal reckoning but those could have all been uncommons with minimal set impact - like damping sphere.
The power level on multicolored 3 cmc cards is already quite high in standard. kolaghan's command and savage knuckleblade didn't blow standard wide open. The majority of UW vial spirits creature base was in standard at one time...and was fine. spell queller didn't warp standard like emrakul, the promised end or even felidar guardian - but it's better in modern. But if dropping cards like isolate is what this is going to be about, it's a hard pass for me. I can't see them printing an entire product without a chase card though - why make something that won't sell?
So what 1 or 2 cmc cards would I even be interested in? counterspell, a decent 1 drop for faeries, birchlore rangers, containment priest, annnnnnnd a force of will variant that doesn't suck as bad as foil or disrupting shoal. That's literally it, as I think the more interesting build around cards can be fine for standard if they are priced well enough.
What I'm not okay with is bottleneck supply for new tournament staples. Even if supply is sufficient there is price memory and human emotions that enter the fray. Look at nexus of fate, which I believe Maro stated has more copies in circulation than any other mythic in the set - the apparent scarcity is fabricated by the secondary market, people giving into impulses, and EDH demand.
I agree, that any new cards could and should be printed first in standard sets.
The problem is reprints that don't fit in standard due to mechanic and/or flavor. Take Baleful Strix for instance. The card would be fine in both modern and standard, but only fits in Alara flavorwise. Now if we do a return to Alara, we're all set here.
However, the thing is, to be good and interesting (and useful) the power level has to be off the charts to match the brokenness of the typical modern deck. We all bought MM for the broken cards, not for the rest of the reprinted junk (drafters excluded, eh) If that happens, the whole point of an eternal format will be gone because cards will be phased out (i.e. rendered less useful by newer, better cards) quickly forcing a financial rat race on the players part, like Standard. Inevitably this will devalue old collections and cards, but will arguably not drive down entry costs nearly as much as people think - because at the end of the day only a few cards will be really desirable and the modern player base is large and will gobble them up (unless they print them into the ground, which they won't do).
If it's a small set once per year, or even once every two years - maybe, it could be a good corrective to the format.Knowing WotC/Hasbro greed evidenced by the current hyperproduction of sets and miscellaneous products - it won't be. They will churn it out until it reaches a breaking point like every other product line (Core, MM etc.).
Finally, it kind of feels like a betrayal of the spirit of the format. We give standard a good shake and use what stands out in another way. Creative modern decks appear semi-regularly. With modern purpose printed cards, some of the charm is gone. WotC also gets basically unlimited power to dictate the meta and format flow, which they can't do with Standard in the way.
It's about monetization folks, not your well being.
i agree that their reasons for creating such a product might not be entirely altruistic towards players. for instance, as was seen in the masters line of products, it was difficult to sustain because the 'reprint equity' of high value cards is eventually used up. a way around this is to artificially create new reprint targets down the line. we have seen it in legacy with commander set cards like true name nemesis and leovold. top dollar mythics that muscle their way into format prominence, and now can be reprinted later on to boost sales.
its probably the biggest downside of this, or potential downside at least. sure they could print cards like counterspell or baleful strix into modern, but a newly designed mythic or rare pushed specifically for modern play combined with a limited/small print run will undoubtedly cause many headaches.
its noteworthy though that wizards making money and players being satisfied arent mutually exclusive. much like jace being reprinted at the same time of his unban. it boosts sales, and gives more supply to meet player demand.
so what we can hope if this type of product ever happens is that wizards finds a good middle ground. print runs big enough to meet the demand of what might be the most played (paper) constructed format at a price point that isnt quite 'premium' as it was with masters products.
if you are wary of such a product, you definitely arent alone. i personally worry because direct meddling in formats by wizards hasnt usually turned out well. possibly incompetence, but either way formats are complex ecosystems. a direct to modern product is a departure from the format developing organically, either with cycling or as standard cards are introduced.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Would this just be reprints or would it have new cards made for modern first (legacy, commander, vintage as well).
Also I worry if it does include new cards then we see massive nerfs in the power of standard playable cards.
As described initially this would potentially have new cards, but might not, the key factor is the cards would be new to Modern but not suitable for the power level of Standard, as an example Thoughtseize / Lightning Bolt are never getting printed in a Standard legal set again.
In TCC's interview with Gavin Verhey today, the question came up about designing and inserting Modern cards in supplemental products bypassing Standard; apparently it's something we shouldn't expect in the near future. Nice to get a confirmation one way or the other, at least. Maybe the poll didn't go so well?
We at least know that they are warm enough to the idea to ask about it, so it's a bit disappointing to know nothing like this is coming soon. On the other hand, if we do get such a set, it's nice to know they don't want to rush it either.
In TCC's interview with Gavin Verhey today, the question came up about designing and inserting Modern cards in supplemental products bypassing Standard; apparently it's something we shouldn't expect in the near future. Nice to get a confirmation one way or the other, at least. Maybe the poll didn't go so well?
We at least know that they are warm enough to the idea to ask about it, so it's a bit disappointing to know nothing like this is coming soon. On the other hand, if we do get such a set, it's nice to know they don't want to rush it either.
The term "near future" has had an incredibly squishy meaning from WotC. They often backtrack and change their minds, or use the term to play a game of misdirection.
I'm not saying we'll get non-Standard Modern cards any time soon (or at all). But let's consider the source.
In TCC's interview with Gavin Verhey today, the question came up about designing and inserting Modern cards in supplemental products bypassing Standard; apparently it's something we shouldn't expect in the near future. Nice to get a confirmation one way or the other, at least. Maybe the poll didn't go so well?
We at least know that they are warm enough to the idea to ask about it, so it's a bit disappointing to know nothing like this is coming soon. On the other hand, if we do get such a set, it's nice to know they don't want to rush it either.
He also said that it's extremely difficult to gauge because he is aware that cards too good would push out existing decks, cards, or strategies. And that in order to find a perfect balance, they would need excessive testing and implied that it's a very low priority. Not expecting this to happen any time in the next several years.
Yeah; his real focus seemed to be on how much more development and testing it would take than a typical ancillary/supplemental product. So not only would they be afraid of unbalancing the format, but the costs would be greater (something several people here pointed out as likely).
I still think the idea is on the table since they were polling about it, and I would love to see what Play Design in particular could come up with. But yeah, if this ever does happen, it will certainly be awhile.
So let's say that Wizards is warm enough to the idea to consider the possiblity, and is looking to reprint older cards into Modern. There are basically three broad categories of cards to choose from:
1. Cards that define eternal formats (Brainstorm, Hymn to Tourach, Force of Will, Daze, Price of Progress, Wasteland)
2. Cards that don't define eternal formats, but are overpowered for Standard, use obscure/obsolete keywords or mechanics, or don't fit current design or color pie philosophies (three-mana land destruction, Shroud, old-style lords or Slivers that also affect opponents' creatures, Regeneration, Astral Slide)
3. Cards that don't fit into either of the categories above, but just haven't been reprinted in a Standard-legal set (Undermine, Prohibit, Terravore)
Group 1 cards are off-limits, as they are the highest risk options to nuke the format. Some Group 3 cards would be okay, but Wizards will save a lot of these to generate excitement in Standard sets for fans of Modern. This leaves Group 2 as the most likely group to get attention for such a set. There are so many cards that fit into this section that Wizards could do sets like this for years and not exhaust the options; underrepresented decks and strategies, tribal boosts, and better answers could all be addressed in a set like this. Heck, even as a Tron player, I'd be thrilled to see cards like Pillage, Vindicate, Recoil, and/or Temporal Spring be Modern legal, and that's just one specific subset of cards.
I'm extremely glad to hear that this product won't ever be released, or that the likelihood of such a product is slim at best.
Whenever cards are "designed" for formats, you get garbage in Legacy like Leovold, Emissary of Trest and True-Name Nemesis.
I'm extremely glad to hear that this product won't ever be released, or that the likelihood of such a product is slim at best.
Whenever cards are "designed" for formats, you get garbage in Legacy like Leovold, Emissary of Trest and True-Name Nemesis.
I absolutely agree with you that TNN and Leovold were design mistakes, and Wizards seems to think so as well:
There was a time at the very beginning [of Commander] when we did make cards like Flusterstorm and Scavenging Ooze to create some Legacy shots and to make the product more appealing. [...] But what we've found is that Commander players don't usually want cards like this (Flusterstorm is an...unusual fit in most Commander decks, to say the least), and that when these cards do hit, it's often because they're incredibly powerful—which usually means they're not the most fun cards. (I'm looking at you, True-Name Nemesis.) Legacy players don't generally want cards like True-Name Nemesis that are unfun in one-on-one added to their formats, anyway. (Which is probably true of most players for most formats!)
Now, when we're designing Commander sets, we try to be very careful when thinking about cards for Eternal formats. Play Design does careful passes to try and make sure everything is safe for Legacy and Vintage. And if we do think there's any chance that a card might show up in Legacy or Vintage, we try to make it something reactive rather than proactive. Those cards have a much lower chance of being an issue; Flusterstorm answers a problem, whereas True-Name Nemesis causes one.
So it seems like they focus on not jamming proactive cards into the eternal formats now, and for the most part that's worked out alright, especially since Play Design has been involved. Two busted cards in three years from supplemental products not designed to target one single format (and prior to a team specifically established to filter such elements out, most recently three years ago) seems like such things are more the exception and not the rule.
Personally, I'd be very excited to see what these teams could come up with when Modern is the focus. I certainly don't want this hypothetical format to overhaul the format, like you, but I believe that good reactive cards and tools for new or underrepresented strategies would be very welcome. They also don't need to make hundreds of brand new cards; existing cards are relatively easier to predict, and there are always current Modern cards in dire need of reprinting. The mix of all of these things could definitely make for a very nice Modern product with time and good people working it, don't you think?
So it seems like they focus on not jamming proactive cards into the eternal formats now, and for the most part that's worked out alright, especially since Play Design has been involved. Two busted cards in three years from supplemental products not designed to target one single format (and prior to a team specifically established to filter such elements out, most recently three years ago) seems like such things are more the exception and not the rule.
The problem is that even if they are exceptions, their very existence is egregious and warps formats. For example, Grixis Delver, a deck that should theoretically fold to a monstrous deck like Eldrazi, can stonewall and steamroll with True-Name Nemesis. Entire decks such as Stoneblade emerge to use an insanely busted card. Heck, G Delver stopped using Clique to use TNN. When Clique isn't good enough you know something's up. Powerful cards always pull formats around them. It's sort of like the 80/20 principle in effect in reverse: 20% of the cards affect 80% of the format. Think of how an "exception" like KCI warped the format around it, or how an "exception" like Necropotence created Black Summer. Make no mistake: an exception is an exception, but these exceptions can cause severe damage.
Personally, I'd be very excited to see what these teams could come up with when Modern is the focus. I certainly don't want this hypothetical format to overhaul the format, like you, but I believe that good reactive cards and tools for new or underrepresented strategies would be very welcome. They also don't need to make hundreds of brand new cards; existing cards are relatively easier to predict, and there are always current Modern cards in dire need of reprinting. The mix of all of these things could definitely make for a very nice Modern product with time and good people working it, don't you think?
Part of what I enjoy about Legacy, and in a sense what I enjoy about Modern, is that once you choose a deck, it is good for a decent amount of time and there are customizations you can make depending on what new cards get released. In some cases your deck evolves into something else, but that's fine. Personally, I actually don't mind the filtering that Standard creates. For Modern, there have been enough cards, both obvious (Arclight Phoenix) and seemingly innocuous (Hollow One) that have spawned their own decks and archetypes. I guess I'm more conservative in this regard and I don't think that cards such as Counterspell or Baleful Strix would be beneficial for the format. One thing to be aware of is that formats can be "too much" in flux which is just not enjoyable at all for me.
Part of what I enjoy about Legacy, and in a sense what I enjoy about Modern, is that once you choose a deck, it is good for a decent amount of time and there are customizations you can make depending on what new cards get released. In some cases your deck evolves into something else, but that's fine. Personally, I actually don't mind the filtering that Standard creates. For Modern, there have been enough cards, both obvious (Arclight Phoenix) and seemingly innocuous (Hollow One) that have spawned their own decks and archetypes. I guess I'm more conservative in this regard and I don't think that cards such as Counterspell or Baleful Strix would be beneficial for the format. One thing to be aware of is that formats can be "too much" in flux which is just not enjoyable at all for me.
Counterspell probably wouldn't do much in Modern, it would be nice, it would see play, but it might be too slow to answer the threats and enablers that need answered, add to that Wizards printed Cavern of Souls, sigh. Control is more in need of something like Foil which can answer all the 1 drop enablers like Ancient Stirrings and Aether Vial (cough a "fixed"Mental Misstep).
So, since the interview with Gavin Verhey I guess we're off the idea of a 'modern only' set, right?
It was a neat idea though.
I'm looking forward to whatever replaces masters sets, and for more modern-focused reprints in their draft-matters set this year (conspiracy, battlebond etc).
Fingers crossed we see some fetchlands in the commander set.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I think an alternative for reprints is launching more preconstructed decks like the Tokens one of many years ago. They could try to balance all play styles and colors by launching a set of five of those decks. They should also try to provide decklists closer to optimal (there were too many odd cards in the Tokens deck), even if the price goes up to $150.
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Who is truer: you who are, or you who are to be?
Currently sleeved: WUR Copycat ft. Stoneforge Mystic
Fingers crossed we see some fetchlands in the commander set.
There's no way that Wizards would put a Modern staple of that caliber into an EDH product even if EDH players get use out of them. That's just asking for a buyout debacle on a somewhat lesser scale to the True-Name Nemesis one. Now, a high-end preconstructed deck designed for Modern would be another matter. Sure, they tried it years ago without success, but if standard challenger decks were able to succeed the old event decks for Standard, then Modern can do the same. I could definitely see a series of $49.99+ MSRP decks that contain 1-2 copies of certain staples for budget versions of popular decks.
Fingers crossed we see some fetchlands in the commander set.
There's no way
i mean, there is. there definitely is.
likely? not sure. but they could do it. a couple of fetches in each deck in a new series of commander precons would hit all ten fetches and work well in those decks, make for good sales and please modern and commander players alike.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Didn't Gavin specifically state that Commander precons weren't the right vehicle for fetchland reprints when asked about it by the Prof in the interview?
likely? not sure. but they could do it. a couple of fetches in each deck in a new series of commander precons would hit all ten fetches and work well in those decks, make for good sales and please modern and commander players alike.
What I'm trying to say is that trying to serve two masters risks pleasing neither. As opposed to the casual/competitive gap, which is a gradient, the players of two formats are a Venn diagram. Your solution would please folks in the middle who play both, but not necessarily the players on either side. It would try to make the players on the modern side buy cards they have no intention of using, and it makes players on the commander side compete with everybody else. Not to mention, the idea of seeing multiple $15 (minimum!) staples in a $40 product is an unreasonable expectation to begin with. Commander products and premium preconstructed products deserve to be two completely different categories.
What I'm trying to say is that trying to serve two masters risks pleasing neither
i'd agree with what you're saying, except there was a recent fairly extensive interview with Gavin Verhey (the 'architect' of many MTG products) and he specifically said that with the removal of Masters sets, they'll be ramping up Modern reprints in ancillary products as their main avenue of servicing the format.
he also noted emphatically that the recent iteration of Commander precons didn't sit well with consumers because of the lack of meaningful reprints, so he said they were going to increase the inclusion of meaningful reprints in commander products.
both these things said in the same interview, and you get a pretty clear picture. It's more likely now that we'll have some decent Modern reprints in these ancillary products than ever before. fetchlands? sure, why not.
(oh and WotC keeps reminding us that it apparently "doesn't consider the secondary market value of cards" when creating products... I guess with their recent challenger decks they have shown to us that they are actually willing to put their methods into practice by including multiple valuable cards in an affordable package. They may continue this widely appreciated attitude with upcoming Commander decks)
What we do know is that as late as last summer, Wizards was interested in the idea of cards bypassing Standard and making it directly into Modern. My guess is that with the Masters sets going away that this will be the replacement, at least this once. They're likely tweaking the idea of new-to-Modern reprints and entirely new cards into what would have been this summer's themed Masters set. What was the time it took for Wizards to announce themed Masters sets, then change what would have been their second into Ultimate Masters? They announced the themed Masters sets on February 22 of last year, so in less than ten months they had both altered and released the next one. I could very easily see something similar happening here, especially if they had already developed most of the new cards and reprints for the format. New prints for Modern also means new cards for Commander/Legacy/Vintage as well, so there's even more appeal for other formats than traditional Modern Masters sets had.
Even if it doesn't happen this year (again, a distinct possibility), it's really only a matter of time. We know they are interested in the idea, and there's a vacuum to be filled from the exit of traditional Masters sets that taps into the lucrative Modern market. With MaRo's excitement about paving new ground, it's hard to imagine it being a retread of anything we've seen, like another Un-set or Battlebond 2. I do agree that Wizards will design whatever for draft like you mentioned, as they have been consistent with this outside of preconstructed decks. It could be just about anything, but we have more clues pointing toward a Modern-focused set than anything else at the moment, and Wizards has already demonstrated working in the kinds of time tables that would make this possible.
I have been asking for the Kavu around 4 or 5 times already at the reprint thread. As this thing is not really overpowered in Modern.
________________
My wishlist if ever this Modern only set comes true.
Pillage
Terravore
Skyshroud Ridgeback
Cloud of Faeries
Cabal Coffers
Bone Shredder
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
Goblin Ringleader
Nantuko Cultivator
Psychatog
Nightscape Familiar
Skyshroud Cutter
Hopefully, it should happen.
This would also probably bring down prices if modern staples get reprinted in this theoretical modern only set that is not legal in standard.
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The real angle this set would have is that it could reinvigorate equity of some older cards, while also offering new cards to Modern/Legacy/Vintage/Commander players. No traditional Masters set could do either of these things, so as long as they stick with what was popular with them (great draft environment, desired format staples), this fresh experience will make the set at least popular enough to justify trying it once.
The power level on multicolored 3 cmc cards is already quite high in standard. kolaghan's command and savage knuckleblade didn't blow standard wide open. The majority of UW vial spirits creature base was in standard at one time...and was fine. spell queller didn't warp standard like emrakul, the promised end or even felidar guardian - but it's better in modern. But if dropping cards like isolate is what this is going to be about, it's a hard pass for me. I can't see them printing an entire product without a chase card though - why make something that won't sell?
So what 1 or 2 cmc cards would I even be interested in? counterspell, a decent 1 drop for faeries, birchlore rangers, containment priest, annnnnnnd a force of will variant that doesn't suck as bad as foil or disrupting shoal. That's literally it, as I think the more interesting build around cards can be fine for standard if they are priced well enough.
What I'm not okay with is bottleneck supply for new tournament staples. Even if supply is sufficient there is price memory and human emotions that enter the fray. Look at nexus of fate, which I believe Maro stated has more copies in circulation than any other mythic in the set - the apparent scarcity is fabricated by the secondary market, people giving into impulses, and EDH demand.
I agree, that any new cards could and should be printed first in standard sets.
The problem is reprints that don't fit in standard due to mechanic and/or flavor. Take Baleful Strix for instance. The card would be fine in both modern and standard, but only fits in Alara flavorwise. Now if we do a return to Alara, we're all set here.
However, the thing is, to be good and interesting (and useful) the power level has to be off the charts to match the brokenness of the typical modern deck. We all bought MM for the broken cards, not for the rest of the reprinted junk (drafters excluded, eh) If that happens, the whole point of an eternal format will be gone because cards will be phased out (i.e. rendered less useful by newer, better cards) quickly forcing a financial rat race on the players part, like Standard. Inevitably this will devalue old collections and cards, but will arguably not drive down entry costs nearly as much as people think - because at the end of the day only a few cards will be really desirable and the modern player base is large and will gobble them up (unless they print them into the ground, which they won't do).
If it's a small set once per year, or even once every two years - maybe, it could be a good corrective to the format.Knowing WotC/Hasbro greed evidenced by the current hyperproduction of sets and miscellaneous products - it won't be. They will churn it out until it reaches a breaking point like every other product line (Core, MM etc.).
Finally, it kind of feels like a betrayal of the spirit of the format. We give standard a good shake and use what stands out in another way. Creative modern decks appear semi-regularly. With modern purpose printed cards, some of the charm is gone. WotC also gets basically unlimited power to dictate the meta and format flow, which they can't do with Standard in the way.
It's about monetization folks, not your well being.
its probably the biggest downside of this, or potential downside at least. sure they could print cards like counterspell or baleful strix into modern, but a newly designed mythic or rare pushed specifically for modern play combined with a limited/small print run will undoubtedly cause many headaches.
its noteworthy though that wizards making money and players being satisfied arent mutually exclusive. much like jace being reprinted at the same time of his unban. it boosts sales, and gives more supply to meet player demand.
so what we can hope if this type of product ever happens is that wizards finds a good middle ground. print runs big enough to meet the demand of what might be the most played (paper) constructed format at a price point that isnt quite 'premium' as it was with masters products.
if you are wary of such a product, you definitely arent alone. i personally worry because direct meddling in formats by wizards hasnt usually turned out well. possibly incompetence, but either way formats are complex ecosystems. a direct to modern product is a departure from the format developing organically, either with cycling or as standard cards are introduced.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Also I worry if it does include new cards then we see massive nerfs in the power of standard playable cards.
As described initially this would potentially have new cards, but might not, the key factor is the cards would be new to Modern but not suitable for the power level of Standard, as an example Thoughtseize / Lightning Bolt are never getting printed in a Standard legal set again.
The set could be entirely reprints though; Baleful Strix, Dack Fayden, Deathreap Ritual, Extract from Darkness, Sakashima's Student, Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast, Shardless Agent, Arena Rector + we could get stronger answers like Counterspell or Foil, maybe a fixed Mental Misstep that needs you to reveal an island or some such...
Generally I'd rather Wizards printed better answers than banned cards, the exception being the Artifact Lands as they are just too broken.
We at least know that they are warm enough to the idea to ask about it, so it's a bit disappointing to know nothing like this is coming soon. On the other hand, if we do get such a set, it's nice to know they don't want to rush it either.
I'm not saying we'll get non-Standard Modern cards any time soon (or at all). But let's consider the source.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
He also said that it's extremely difficult to gauge because he is aware that cards too good would push out existing decks, cards, or strategies. And that in order to find a perfect balance, they would need excessive testing and implied that it's a very low priority. Not expecting this to happen any time in the next several years.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I still think the idea is on the table since they were polling about it, and I would love to see what Play Design in particular could come up with. But yeah, if this ever does happen, it will certainly be awhile.
So let's say that Wizards is warm enough to the idea to consider the possiblity, and is looking to reprint older cards into Modern. There are basically three broad categories of cards to choose from:
1. Cards that define eternal formats (Brainstorm, Hymn to Tourach, Force of Will, Daze, Price of Progress, Wasteland)
2. Cards that don't define eternal formats, but are overpowered for Standard, use obscure/obsolete keywords or mechanics, or don't fit current design or color pie philosophies (three-mana land destruction, Shroud, old-style lords or Slivers that also affect opponents' creatures, Regeneration, Astral Slide)
3. Cards that don't fit into either of the categories above, but just haven't been reprinted in a Standard-legal set (Undermine, Prohibit, Terravore)
Group 1 cards are off-limits, as they are the highest risk options to nuke the format. Some Group 3 cards would be okay, but Wizards will save a lot of these to generate excitement in Standard sets for fans of Modern. This leaves Group 2 as the most likely group to get attention for such a set. There are so many cards that fit into this section that Wizards could do sets like this for years and not exhaust the options; underrepresented decks and strategies, tribal boosts, and better answers could all be addressed in a set like this. Heck, even as a Tron player, I'd be thrilled to see cards like Pillage, Vindicate, Recoil, and/or Temporal Spring be Modern legal, and that's just one specific subset of cards.
Whenever cards are "designed" for formats, you get garbage in Legacy like Leovold, Emissary of Trest and True-Name Nemesis.
So it seems like they focus on not jamming proactive cards into the eternal formats now, and for the most part that's worked out alright, especially since Play Design has been involved. Two busted cards in three years from supplemental products not designed to target one single format (and prior to a team specifically established to filter such elements out, most recently three years ago) seems like such things are more the exception and not the rule.
Personally, I'd be very excited to see what these teams could come up with when Modern is the focus. I certainly don't want this hypothetical format to overhaul the format, like you, but I believe that good reactive cards and tools for new or underrepresented strategies would be very welcome. They also don't need to make hundreds of brand new cards; existing cards are relatively easier to predict, and there are always current Modern cards in dire need of reprinting. The mix of all of these things could definitely make for a very nice Modern product with time and good people working it, don't you think?
The problem is that even if they are exceptions, their very existence is egregious and warps formats. For example, Grixis Delver, a deck that should theoretically fold to a monstrous deck like Eldrazi, can stonewall and steamroll with True-Name Nemesis. Entire decks such as Stoneblade emerge to use an insanely busted card. Heck, G Delver stopped using Clique to use TNN. When Clique isn't good enough you know something's up. Powerful cards always pull formats around them. It's sort of like the 80/20 principle in effect in reverse: 20% of the cards affect 80% of the format. Think of how an "exception" like KCI warped the format around it, or how an "exception" like Necropotence created Black Summer. Make no mistake: an exception is an exception, but these exceptions can cause severe damage.
Part of what I enjoy about Legacy, and in a sense what I enjoy about Modern, is that once you choose a deck, it is good for a decent amount of time and there are customizations you can make depending on what new cards get released. In some cases your deck evolves into something else, but that's fine. Personally, I actually don't mind the filtering that Standard creates. For Modern, there have been enough cards, both obvious (Arclight Phoenix) and seemingly innocuous (Hollow One) that have spawned their own decks and archetypes. I guess I'm more conservative in this regard and I don't think that cards such as Counterspell or Baleful Strix would be beneficial for the format. One thing to be aware of is that formats can be "too much" in flux which is just not enjoyable at all for me.
Counterspell probably wouldn't do much in Modern, it would be nice, it would see play, but it might be too slow to answer the threats and enablers that need answered, add to that Wizards printed Cavern of Souls, sigh. Control is more in need of something like Foil which can answer all the 1 drop enablers like Ancient Stirrings and Aether Vial (cough a "fixed" Mental Misstep).
When I listed these cards - Baleful Strix, Dack Fayden, Deathreap Ritual, Extract from Darkness, Sakashima's Student, Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast, Shardless Agent, Arena Rector I chose them for a reason, they were already designed to a modern design philosophy... Sure Dack Fayden could slot into the Arclight Phoenix deck, but not being an instant or sorcery is a major downside. The advantage of a set like the one suggested is that cards Wizards wouldn't want in Standard, but are safe for Modern can be printed...
It was a neat idea though.
I'm looking forward to whatever replaces masters sets, and for more modern-focused reprints in their draft-matters set this year (conspiracy, battlebond etc).
Fingers crossed we see some fetchlands in the commander set.
Currently sleeved:
WUR Copycat ft. Stoneforge Mystic
There's no way that Wizards would put a Modern staple of that caliber into an EDH product even if EDH players get use out of them. That's just asking for a buyout debacle on a somewhat lesser scale to the True-Name Nemesis one. Now, a high-end preconstructed deck designed for Modern would be another matter. Sure, they tried it years ago without success, but if standard challenger decks were able to succeed the old event decks for Standard, then Modern can do the same. I could definitely see a series of $49.99+ MSRP decks that contain 1-2 copies of certain staples for budget versions of popular decks.
i mean, there is. there definitely is.
likely? not sure. but they could do it. a couple of fetches in each deck in a new series of commander precons would hit all ten fetches and work well in those decks, make for good sales and please modern and commander players alike.
What I'm trying to say is that trying to serve two masters risks pleasing neither. As opposed to the casual/competitive gap, which is a gradient, the players of two formats are a Venn diagram. Your solution would please folks in the middle who play both, but not necessarily the players on either side. It would try to make the players on the modern side buy cards they have no intention of using, and it makes players on the commander side compete with everybody else. Not to mention, the idea of seeing multiple $15 (minimum!) staples in a $40 product is an unreasonable expectation to begin with. Commander products and premium preconstructed products deserve to be two completely different categories.
i'd agree with what you're saying, except there was a recent fairly extensive interview with Gavin Verhey (the 'architect' of many MTG products) and he specifically said that with the removal of Masters sets, they'll be ramping up Modern reprints in ancillary products as their main avenue of servicing the format.
he also noted emphatically that the recent iteration of Commander precons didn't sit well with consumers because of the lack of meaningful reprints, so he said they were going to increase the inclusion of meaningful reprints in commander products.
both these things said in the same interview, and you get a pretty clear picture. It's more likely now that we'll have some decent Modern reprints in these ancillary products than ever before. fetchlands? sure, why not.
(oh and WotC keeps reminding us that it apparently "doesn't consider the secondary market value of cards" when creating products... I guess with their recent challenger decks they have shown to us that they are actually willing to put their methods into practice by including multiple valuable cards in an affordable package. They may continue this widely appreciated attitude with upcoming Commander decks)