Yes they can remove it just like any other permanent based hate card, but in order to play around it they need a minimum of 6 turns to get to Wurmcoil. If a deck cannot close out the game in that time it doesn't deserve to win.
Yes they can remove it just like any other permanent based hate card, but in order to play around it they need a minimum of 6 turns to get to Wurmcoil. If a deck cannot close out the game in that time it doesn't deserve to win.
Right, seems valid.
Again, this isn't even true. UW Control is exceedingly slow, probably the slowest top-tier deck in Modern, and it's positive against Tron. You don't need to be fast to beat Tron.
Yes they can remove it just like any other permanent based hate card, but in order to play around it they need a minimum of 6 turns to get to Wurmcoil. If a deck cannot close out the game in that time it doesn't deserve to win.
Right, seems valid.
Again, this isn't even true. UW Control is exceedingly slow, probably the slowest top-tier deck in Modern, and it's positive against Tron. You don't need to be fast to beat Tron.
I should rephrase that you don't need to be fast to beat tron, but you need to be fast if your plan is to ride a 1/2 mana enchantment to victory.
Yes they can remove it just like any other permanent based hate card, but in order to play around it they need a minimum of 6 turns to get to Wurmcoil. If a deck cannot close out the game in that time it doesn't deserve to win.
Right, seems valid.
Again, this isn't even true. UW Control is exceedingly slow, probably the slowest top-tier deck in Modern, and it's positive against Tron. You don't need to be fast to beat Tron.
It's not positive, it's just even, maybe slightly unfavourable if Tron runs World Breakers.
It's precisely 54.3% against Tron in the N=90 dataset of SCG and GP data. That aligns with Nassif's assessment that it's a "slightly favorable" matchup, and if the quantitative data is aligning with a pro going on record with a qualitative assessment, I'm going with that.
Edit: Nassif is one of the best 3 mtg players of all times, so if the matchup is "slightly positive" for him, this should mean that it should be even(when two similar skilled players play up each another), given that he is always much better than his opponent.
I can get behind that. 50/50 aligns more with my own thoughts on the matchup, although I haven't played the most recent versions against each other. I just didn't want to argue with stats, which I'm sure the ~54% win percentage comes from.
I think that most Tron lists only run 1 Worldbreaker, but yes, that card is a house vs. UW. It's kind of a must-Path kind of card because you just can't have that card coming back again and again if you want to beat it.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
First off, 54.3 is not "positive". It would be "slightly positive" in a bigger N. But, I do believe this N is small. I am sure it will be something like 50 if N moves closer to 200. But even then, saying it's positive with a percentage point very close to 50% seems weird. You are safer calling it even.
Are we really going to get this semantical about "positive" vs. "slightly positive"? I even gave the exact %. "Slightly positive" is necessarily also "positive," but if we're talking about degrees of positivity (slightly positive, positive, very positive, overwhelmingly positive, etc.) then sure, it's slightly positive. But given that I literally gave the percentage and quoted Nassif, I don't see how this disagreement really advances the argument. The matchup is positive, i.e. you should win more than you lose.
That is, unless you are talking the spreading seas version, and if your sample contains no such UW configurations at all.
The seas UW version is surely more 55% and on the slightly positive side.
I don't think any of the UW decks in the dataset use Seas. It's not in favor right now and hasn't been for all the tourneys included in that dataset.
Edit: Nassif is one of the best 3 mtg players of all times, so if the matchup is "slightly positive" for him, this should mean that it should be even(when two similar skilled players play up each another), given that he is always much better than his opponent.
Does this mean every time a great player makes a guide that we should bump down their matchup ratings from "slighty positive" to "even"? Or all matchups get bumped down by a degree, e.g. "even" to "slightly unfavorable"? I don't buy this for a moment. I've never heard of this before either which makes the entire line of argument a bit suspect.
I feel bad for people who didn't find that finals interesting, that can be one of the most painful mirrors in the world if you can't follow the decisions and, more importantly, reasons for those decisions.
well an amulet mirror is certainly strange, but i believe that will pullam fellow is a regular amulet titan player.
funny to see caleb scherer jump back to storm and immediately top 8 with it. the grass is always greener
anywho this top 8 should assuage peoples fear about dredge, at least to an extent. the deck is good, but not something that will take over the format on the level of some more truly broken stuff. dredge winter successfully averted! (/s)
ive been switching between UW and jeskai regularly now, and for UW vs. tron i would personally rate the matchup as even. not worth looking at it much further than that imo.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Yes they can remove it just like any other permanent based hate card, but in order to play around it they need a minimum of 6 turns to get to Wurmcoil. If a deck cannot close out the game in that time it doesn't deserve to win.
Right, seems valid.
Again, this isn't even true. UW Control is exceedingly slow, probably the slowest top-tier deck in Modern, and it's positive against Tron. You don't need to be fast to beat Tron.
It's not positive, it's just even, maybe slightly unfavourable if Tron runs World Breakers.
It's precisely 54.3% against Tron in the N=90 dataset of SCG and GP data. That aligns with Nassif's assessment that it's a "slightly favorable" matchup, and if the quantitative data is aligning with a pro going on record with a qualitative assessment, I'm going with that.
Nassif probably said that when he was playing the Spreading Seas version. That version of UW probably is favored against Tron, but the Miracles version isn't as good in the matchup. 90 matches isn't a huge data set, but you should also check your categorizations. If Spreading Seas/Verdict UW lists are being lumped together with Miracles lists, it's going to skew your numbers.
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Does this mean every time a great player makes a guide that we should bump down their matchup ratings from "slighty positive" to "even"? Or all matchups get bumped down by a degree, e.g. "even" to "slightly unfavorable"? I don't buy this for a moment. I've never heard of this before either which makes the entire line of argument a bit suspect.
Yes, absolutely. If Gabe Nassif shows us his excel spreadsheet showing he's 55% against Tron, the rest of us can subtract 5 to 10% to find a more realistic matchup. Most of us can't sustain a 65-70% win rate against the field like the great players can.
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This Tron vs. UW debate reminds me of all the reasons I dramatically slowed posting data. For many who want to draw their own conclusions before seeing the numbers, N is never big enough, the dataset is never accurate enough, and the analysis is never good enough.
Does this mean every time a great player makes a guide that we should bump down their matchup ratings from "slighty positive" to "even"? Or all matchups get bumped down by a degree, e.g. "even" to "slightly unfavorable"? I don't buy this for a moment. I've never heard of this before either which makes the entire line of argument a bit suspect.
Yes, absolutely. If Gabe Nassif shows us his excel spreadsheet showing he's 55% against Tron, the rest of us can subtract 5 to 10% to find a more realistic matchup. Most of us can't sustain a 65-70% win rate against the field like the great players can.
I've never heard this in my life. We're not looking at his spreadsheet. We're just reading his assessments. Are we really to believe that every primer we've seen a pro player write needs us to downgrade all their assessments by a degree because the authors are better pilots than the readers? Neither the content sites nor the authors claim this, and I've never heard someone in any iteration of this thread claim that either.
i mean when you are talking about matchups, its done in the abstract with the assumption that skill and variance are equal.
i agree though that this tends to muck up any personal reporting of results. for the vast majority of modern players, their matchup percentages across the board are likely 'unfavored'; simply because they are poor or mediocre players.
its no mistake we see most matchup numbers trend toward 50/50. very few, if any, modern decks are so advantaged versus another that it significantly shifts the expected result that would be trended towards given a large enough data set. which is why, like idsurge pointed out, dramatic claims like 'its unwinnable' or 'practically a bye' are attributed to matchups that are really just 60/40.
granted this isnt the same as saying every deck is 50/50, or near it. decks still have meaningful strategic or tactical advantages against others.
This Tron vs. UW debate reminds me of all the reasons I dramatically slowed posting data. For many who want to draw their own conclusions before seeing the numbers, N is never big enough, the dataset is never accurate enough, and the analysis is never good enough.
If the data is contrary to the common sense of the people playing the deck, then you have to examine why that might be the case. Gkourou and I are both telling you that we don't feel like UW Miracles is favored against Tron, but it also doesn't feel terribly unfavored either. Maybe our feel of the match is wrong, or maybe there is something in the data throwing the numbers off, like the sample size or not differentiating between Miracles and non-Miracles lists.
I've never heard this in my life. We're not looking at his spreadsheet. We're just reading his assessments. Are we really to believe that every primer we've seen a pro player write needs us to downgrade all their assessments by a degree because the authors are better pilots than the readers? Neither the content sites nor the authors claim this, and I've never heard someone in any iteration of this thread claim that either.
That depends. If they're showing us a spreadsheet of their matchup results, absolutely you should subtract some number to find your own matchup against that deck. I remember about a year ago Magnus Lantto posted his results with Grixis Death's Shadow and talked about the matchups, but Magnus is a way better Magic player than probably any of us here in this thread, so we can't expect our matchups to look the same as his. In particular, there are matchups that swing wildly based on the skill of the player on one side or the other. For instance, the Burn vs. GDS matchup is heavily dependent on the skill of the Burn player. It's a positive matchup for a good Burn player, but it's even to negative for a mediocre Burn player.
If it's just someone like Nassif giving his impressions without showing numbers, you should still take it with a grain of salt. Nassif regularly plays against opponents who are much worse than him, and that's going to bias some of his opinions on matchups. Something that feels even to slightly favored to him might be unfavored when you normalize the skill level of the pilots.
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Before this gets forgotten in the wash of what is, or is not, a favourable(enough) match up %.
5 Players day 2 on Prime Time decks. 4 Amulet, 1 Titan Shift. 3 made Top 8, 2 Amulet, and the Final was Amulet Mirror.
Amulet Titan is still an insanely powerful deck, and always has been.
Yes, it's a very strong deck that also happens to get better when people don't want to run super quick Combo decks. It just takes a lot of time to learn AND play the deck very well. The line when he played against Titanshift where he got Pact of Negation by transmuting Tolaria West instead of Slayer's Stronghold and Boros Garrison is one that I wouldn't have seen at that moment. Even despite how well he played, I saw a few very minor mistakes during his matches (not saying I would notice them if playing the deck myself, but it's always easier to judge while watching on Twitchtv)
I think that Prime Time decks are in a solid spot right now with players wanting to run Assassin's Trophy and UW Control. There are also other solid matchups for the decks, like Tron for example.
These were some of the toughest matches that I've had when running Amulet.
1. Elves
2. Lantern
3. Grishoalbrand
Nobody is playing those right now.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Question since there seems to be decent Amulet Titan expertise in this thread. Why run Amulet Titan over something like Storm? In other words, what's the meta that encourages the former over the latter. Storm seems slightly faster, so is there added resilience or...?
Question since there seems to be decent Amulet Titan expertise in this thread. Why run Amulet Titan over something like Storm? In other words, what's the meta that encourages the former over the latter. Storm seems slightly faster, so is there added resilience or...?
I'm not an Amulet guy, but people who play amulet like the way that amulet plays. It has many complicated lines which helps keep the deck interesting as well. That being said, with dredge quickly causing a "sky is falling" reaction among many, Storm was probably not the deck to be on (increased graveyard hate). Can storm win through the hate? sure. Amulet doesn't really care about their graveyard and decks were probably ill-equipped to deal with Prime Time.
Question since there seems to be decent Amulet Titan expertise in this thread. Why run Amulet Titan over something like Storm? In other words, what's the meta that encourages the former over the latter. Storm seems slightly faster, so is there added resilience or...?
I think its because of the flexibility. Yeah its a combo deck, but its also toolbox that can help hedge vs other decks. Storm gets hit by some residual effects coming from Dredge hate like Leyline of the Void. People are also usually prepared to hate out Storm before they hate out Titan. I think Damping Sphere is underplayed right now. It's not like a game winning silver bullet vs them, but it slows them down significantly
I think that Prime Time decks are in a solid spot right now with players wanting to run Assassin's Trophy and UW Control. There are also other solid matchups for the decks, like Tron for example.
What about Titanshift decks? Do you think its good currently?
We also can't ignore the margin of error in the GP data. You say the UW vs. Tron matchup is exactly 54% according to the data, but you know that's not correct. With a sample size of 90 matches, for a 99% confidence level you have a 14% confidence interval, so the data says that the matchup is somewhere between 40% and 68% for UW. Gkourou and I are both betting that it's actually in the lower end of that spectrum, based on our experience in the matchup.
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What about Titanshift decks? Do you think its good currently?
I do. In fact, my 20 person FNM last Friday gave us two 3-0-1 players, myself on Titanshift and another guy on Amulet Titan. We played it out for fun and I won 2-0, because I was luckier than him, including a top decked Scapeshift when I was dead on board. I am going to do more testing, but I found Amulet to be favored in the matchup 55/45.
I think if people are trying to play fair decks and Tron, then Titanshift is in a good spot and I am happy to say that.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
What about Titanshift decks? Do you think its good currently?
I do. In fact, my 20 person FNM last Friday gave us two 3-0-1 players, myself on Titanshift and another guy on Amulet Titan. We played it out for fun and I won 2-0, because I was luckier than him, including a top decked Scapeshift when I was dead on board. I am going to do more testing, but I found Amulet to be favored in the matchup 55/45.
I think if people are trying to play fair decks and Tron, then Titanshift is in a good spot and I am happy to say that.
Having played Titanshift on and off for the past 2+ years, my personal experience is that it is slightly unfavoured against Amulet, which is usually 1 turn faster.
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Right, seems valid.
Spirits
Again, this isn't even true. UW Control is exceedingly slow, probably the slowest top-tier deck in Modern, and it's positive against Tron. You don't need to be fast to beat Tron.
I should rephrase that you don't need to be fast to beat tron, but you need to be fast if your plan is to ride a 1/2 mana enchantment to victory.
It's precisely 54.3% against Tron in the N=90 dataset of SCG and GP data. That aligns with Nassif's assessment that it's a "slightly favorable" matchup, and if the quantitative data is aligning with a pro going on record with a qualitative assessment, I'm going with that.
I can get behind that. 50/50 aligns more with my own thoughts on the matchup, although I haven't played the most recent versions against each other. I just didn't want to argue with stats, which I'm sure the ~54% win percentage comes from.
I think that most Tron lists only run 1 Worldbreaker, but yes, that card is a house vs. UW. It's kind of a must-Path kind of card because you just can't have that card coming back again and again if you want to beat it.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Are we really going to get this semantical about "positive" vs. "slightly positive"? I even gave the exact %. "Slightly positive" is necessarily also "positive," but if we're talking about degrees of positivity (slightly positive, positive, very positive, overwhelmingly positive, etc.) then sure, it's slightly positive. But given that I literally gave the percentage and quoted Nassif, I don't see how this disagreement really advances the argument. The matchup is positive, i.e. you should win more than you lose.
I don't think any of the UW decks in the dataset use Seas. It's not in favor right now and hasn't been for all the tourneys included in that dataset.
Does this mean every time a great player makes a guide that we should bump down their matchup ratings from "slighty positive" to "even"? Or all matchups get bumped down by a degree, e.g. "even" to "slightly unfavorable"? I don't buy this for a moment. I've never heard of this before either which makes the entire line of argument a bit suspect.
SCG Open Final - Amulet Titan MIRROR.
Spirits
funny to see caleb scherer jump back to storm and immediately top 8 with it. the grass is always greener
anywho this top 8 should assuage peoples fear about dredge, at least to an extent. the deck is good, but not something that will take over the format on the level of some more truly broken stuff. dredge winter successfully averted! (/s)
ive been switching between UW and jeskai regularly now, and for UW vs. tron i would personally rate the matchup as even. not worth looking at it much further than that imo.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Top 32 of the Open.
Amulet Titan 1st
Amulet Titan 2nd
TitanShift 3rd
Azorius Control 4th
Storm 5th Caleb
Jund 6th Jadine
Bant Spirits 7th
Izzet Wizards 8th
Humans 9th
Burn 10th
Bant Spirits
Humans 12th
Infect 13th
Burn 14th
Mono-Green Tron 15th
Dredge 16th
Azorius Control 17th
Amulet Titan 18th
Humans 19th
Counters Company 20th
Gruul Land Destruction 21st
Mono-Green Tron 22nd
Grixis Whir 23rd
Ironworks 24th
Infect 25th
Grixis Whir
Runaway Red
Jund 28th
Dredge 29th
Arclight Red 30th
Burn 31st
Dredge 32nd
Open Classic
Gruul Land Destruction 1st
Mardu Pyromancer 2nd
Mono-Green Tron 3rd
Azorius Spirits 4th
Humans 5th
Dredge 6th
Mono-Green Tron 7th
Elves 8th
Selesnya Taxes
Dredge 10th
Affinity
Dredge 12th
Infect 13th
Jeskai Control 14th
Selesnya Chord 15th
Infect 16th
Spirits
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I've never heard this in my life. We're not looking at his spreadsheet. We're just reading his assessments. Are we really to believe that every primer we've seen a pro player write needs us to downgrade all their assessments by a degree because the authors are better pilots than the readers? Neither the content sites nor the authors claim this, and I've never heard someone in any iteration of this thread claim that either.
i agree though that this tends to muck up any personal reporting of results. for the vast majority of modern players, their matchup percentages across the board are likely 'unfavored'; simply because they are poor or mediocre players.
its no mistake we see most matchup numbers trend toward 50/50. very few, if any, modern decks are so advantaged versus another that it significantly shifts the expected result that would be trended towards given a large enough data set. which is why, like idsurge pointed out, dramatic claims like 'its unwinnable' or 'practically a bye' are attributed to matchups that are really just 60/40.
granted this isnt the same as saying every deck is 50/50, or near it. decks still have meaningful strategic or tactical advantages against others.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)That depends. If they're showing us a spreadsheet of their matchup results, absolutely you should subtract some number to find your own matchup against that deck. I remember about a year ago Magnus Lantto posted his results with Grixis Death's Shadow and talked about the matchups, but Magnus is a way better Magic player than probably any of us here in this thread, so we can't expect our matchups to look the same as his. In particular, there are matchups that swing wildly based on the skill of the player on one side or the other. For instance, the Burn vs. GDS matchup is heavily dependent on the skill of the Burn player. It's a positive matchup for a good Burn player, but it's even to negative for a mediocre Burn player.
If it's just someone like Nassif giving his impressions without showing numbers, you should still take it with a grain of salt. Nassif regularly plays against opponents who are much worse than him, and that's going to bias some of his opinions on matchups. Something that feels even to slightly favored to him might be unfavored when you normalize the skill level of the pilots.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
5 Players day 2 on Prime Time decks. 4 Amulet, 1 Titan Shift. 3 made Top 8, 2 Amulet, and the Final was Amulet Mirror.
Amulet Titan is still an insanely powerful deck, and always has been.
Spirits
Yes, it's a very strong deck that also happens to get better when people don't want to run super quick Combo decks. It just takes a lot of time to learn AND play the deck very well. The line when he played against Titanshift where he got Pact of Negation by transmuting Tolaria West instead of Slayer's Stronghold and Boros Garrison is one that I wouldn't have seen at that moment. Even despite how well he played, I saw a few very minor mistakes during his matches (not saying I would notice them if playing the deck myself, but it's always easier to judge while watching on Twitchtv)
I think that Prime Time decks are in a solid spot right now with players wanting to run Assassin's Trophy and UW Control. There are also other solid matchups for the decks, like Tron for example.
These were some of the toughest matches that I've had when running Amulet.
1. Elves
2. Lantern
3. Grishoalbrand
Nobody is playing those right now.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=20391&f=MO
When the winner of an event lists their dredge as "the best deck, dredge" in registration, the meme-ing can commence.
I'm not an Amulet guy, but people who play amulet like the way that amulet plays. It has many complicated lines which helps keep the deck interesting as well. That being said, with dredge quickly causing a "sky is falling" reaction among many, Storm was probably not the deck to be on (increased graveyard hate). Can storm win through the hate? sure. Amulet doesn't really care about their graveyard and decks were probably ill-equipped to deal with Prime Time.
I think its because of the flexibility. Yeah its a combo deck, but its also toolbox that can help hedge vs other decks. Storm gets hit by some residual effects coming from Dredge hate like Leyline of the Void. People are also usually prepared to hate out Storm before they hate out Titan. I think Damping Sphere is underplayed right now. It's not like a game winning silver bullet vs them, but it slows them down significantly
What about Titanshift decks? Do you think its good currently?
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
We also can't ignore the margin of error in the GP data. You say the UW vs. Tron matchup is exactly 54% according to the data, but you know that's not correct. With a sample size of 90 matches, for a 99% confidence level you have a 14% confidence interval, so the data says that the matchup is somewhere between 40% and 68% for UW. Gkourou and I are both betting that it's actually in the lower end of that spectrum, based on our experience in the matchup.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I do. In fact, my 20 person FNM last Friday gave us two 3-0-1 players, myself on Titanshift and another guy on Amulet Titan. We played it out for fun and I won 2-0, because I was luckier than him, including a top decked Scapeshift when I was dead on board. I am going to do more testing, but I found Amulet to be favored in the matchup 55/45.
I think if people are trying to play fair decks and Tron, then Titanshift is in a good spot and I am happy to say that.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)On your best hands, you don't die and have a chance to win.
On their best hands, they simply win.
If you're playing a fair deck, you're making a bet that your opponents deck will lose to itself enough of the time to make your fair plan worthwhile.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Having played Titanshift on and off for the past 2+ years, my personal experience is that it is slightly unfavoured against Amulet, which is usually 1 turn faster.