Modo challenges have been a joke for a long time. Something odd wins rather often.
Btw yes chill sees play in standard.
Uhh define a joke. I dont know how that spiked it, but the MTGO meta is often a beast, its not like that was for a friendly league.
This is what I was totally curious about. I don't play online. I have some friends who get close to top 8ing the challenges, but I don't recall a friend telling me specifically that they top 8ed a Challenge. (although hardly anybody tells me that they play in these, especially the Modern ones)
I'm also begging someone to tell me how that deck wins. Is it just wait until you have 2 cards in hand, Cragganwick Cremator and Impervious Greatwurm and then have a Cavern of Souls on Giant if needed, then dome them for 16? That can't be it, can it? (I'm sorry if I'm a bit dense; just came back from a long day at Knott's Berry Farm)
*Kind of sad that Lightning Bolt + discarding Impervious Greatwurm to Cremator is only 19 damage. While I'm sure that kills a lot of decks, there are some that won't push themselves under 20. (Merfolk, Tron, potentially Humans, KCI)
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Modo challenges have been a joke for a long time. Something odd wins rather often.
Btw yes chill sees play in standard.
Uhh define a joke. I dont know how that spiked it, but the MTGO meta is often a beast, its not like that was for a friendly league.
This is what I was totally curious about. I don't play online. I have some friends who get close to top 8ing the challenges, but I don't recall a friend telling me specifically that they top 8ed a Challenge. (although hardly anybody tells me that they play in these, especially the Modern ones)
People play extremely random things in challenges if you go back and look through them. I’d imagine one reason is because you can get published. I know of a few people that play in them and just mess around. I think they said a lot of the players in them tend to not be in the USA too and that might make a difference. But by joke I mean just people entering with random stuff for the lulz. Not all obviously as I believe the 3rd place person there is who won gpla while ago but still just my opinion.
Yes, Nikachu is a very well respected Merfolk player. I think he got 2nd as I remember. You may be thinking of Simon ****sky, who is a local player and actually won vs. a 14 year old playing Affinity.
I understand playing random stuff in tournaments. I do it myself from time to time (and probably will do it with this list as well after I just spent the last 15 minutes getting what I didn't have). But winning with these lists is another thing. It's hard enough to win with a good deck like KCI, Dredge, Humans, or UW Miracles, but winning with this list is just … well … amazing.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Well, there's no doubt that Archgaze is gaining some percentage points from people simply not knowing what the hell he's doing. Such is the appeal of rogue decks. But that list does look like an extraordinary pile. It looks like he's been on the deck for a while - there's a 5-0 from July there, and I actually played him in one of the PTQs last month. I was wondering what the hell was going on the whole time, but it was not difficult to win. In any event, its pretty fascinating to see someone commit to such a bizzare durdly deck in this cutthroat format for so long. I bet his overall winrate is terrible but this 6-1 probably feels pretty good. The MTGO Challenges are tough tournaments.
im sure that happens, but if you assume the challenge is primarily composed of those who grind out comp leagues; then the pool of players is just higher than normal events. there are multiple reasons that pros almost exclusively use mtgo to test and prepare for paper events, one of them is quality of competition.
the flaw with mtgo results stems from league completion time mattering in addition to sustained results, a hyper evolved meta, and the ease of card/deck acquisition leading to more immediate and dramatic bandwagoning.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
So Humans still King...Dredge is back for real apparently. Not enough easy life gain to counter Dredge with Creeping Chill lol.
MTGO Challenges are crazy lol.
I just think it's hilarious that Stoneforge Mystic is banned because it "limits equipment development" because something might be broken. Meanwhile, we can't seem to go without breaking Dredge every handful of sets.
I don't think that's the reason it remains banned. Is there a source for that?
I don't know for sure. WOTC has a long track record saying they don't like things which limit design space. Many people (pros, players, writers) state the conundrum of SFM limiting design space, since it can both find it and cheat equipment into play. Never mind that equipment has been unplayable trash since BS and the Swords, but I could easily put 2 and 2 together to see the naive old fogies at R&D feeling that way.
But I agree with my past statements as well: nothing is coming off, no matter how tame, lame, or safe, unless paired with some massive PR stunt or reprint.
One point we should all think about in regards to Dredge: the reason it ate a ban a couple years ago is no longer valid. At the time, Dredge was really the only popular deck that demanded graveyard hate in your sideboard. These days, graveyard decks are much more abundant, so people have been running the hate already.
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Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
One point we should all think about in regards to Dredge: the reason it ate a ban a couple years ago is no longer valid. At the time, Dredge was really the only popular deck that demanded graveyard hate in your sideboard. These days, graveyard decks are much more abundant, so people have been running the hate already.
And once dredge ate the ban it didn’t really matter because you still had to have the gy hate. Old cards always pay the price for the new ones sadly. Chill doesn’t seems strong enough to me to push dredge over the edge. Just some new tech that’s all.
Modo challenges have been a joke for a long time. Something odd wins rather often.
Btw yes chill sees play in standard.
Uhh define a joke. I dont know how that spiked it, but the MTGO meta is often a beast, its not like that was for a friendly league.
This is what I was totally curious about. I don't play online. I have some friends who get close to top 8ing the challenges, but I don't recall a friend telling me specifically that they top 8ed a Challenge. (although hardly anybody tells me that they play in these, especially the Modern ones)
People play extremely random things in challenges if you go back and look through them. I’d imagine one reason is because you can get published. I know of a few people that play in them and just mess around. I think they said a lot of the players in them tend to not be in the USA too and that might make a difference. But by joke I mean just people entering with random stuff for the lulz. Not all obviously as I believe the 3rd place person there is who won gpla while ago but still just my opinion.
In the larger challenges? I dont know. I see a lot more 'real' decks, than I do weird ones like we see in Friendlys or Competitives.
i mean there are legitimately good players who believe stoneforge isnt a wise unban target. nothing degenerate is going on, but its power would be enough to collapse some diversity.
i dont agree with them, however i also admit that my opinion isnt formed from a place much more substantial than theirs. so its a matter of me thinking im right, but lacking ways to refute them.
youll see stuff like 'well people were wrong about jace', or 'x card/interaction/deck exists, therefore sfm is safe'. ive even see you say similar stuff cfusionpm. the issue with that line of reasoning is that it isnt a line at all. i may agree with the sentiment, but i just dont consider it a winning argument.
sfms unban candidacy, or most unbans for that matter, depends on wizards getting something out of it. a desired effect in mind, and it happening. hyping a product is a plus, and i attribute that to a rational business decision rather than greed or incompetence. if modern were trash, then i might think differently, however it isnt; its the most popular format. if that poll idsurge posted is anything to go by, its as popular as every other format combined. therefore not acting isnt a failure, because wizards has already succeeded in their primary obligation to the general population of modern players (they are failing at accessibility/prices though). modern is diverse, cycling regularly, gets a constant stream of playable cards, and new or upgraded decks making waves are a frequent occurrence. sfm is a footnote from a time in magic theyd rather forget and isnt exactly going to take modern to the next level of greatness or anything; so keeping that particular bullet (among others) in the chamber makes sense.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
even with the SCG and challenge results, the only thing that makes me consider that dredge isnt just the new flavor of the month was caleb scherer playing it. guy has a ridiculous win percentage, and one of the foremost specialists of storm but he puts it down for...dredge? he never missed a stride, even when humans spiked to its highest rep. dunno, maybe hes playing for some other reason that im not aware of.
He spoke about it a few times over the past bit on stream. With the new SCG championship thing, winning is more important he straight up believes Dredge is a stronger/better deck. Or at least it is right now.
He's also on Dredge for Legacy. He actually top 4'd the event with Orim67's list in the last one.
IMO, Storm isn't in a great place at the moment. It's not bad and can certainly do well with a good pilot, but so many decks right now can flat up race it's best hands. Which for a long time, was one of the strong points of the deck.
I've been mostly playing Bloo over Storm for the past month given how much of a race things are and have been doing quite well. Trying to race Bloo is often funny. For me.
I know tronix mentioned the whole 'people were wrong on Jace' thing..but they were. We are talking Pro Tour level players. Article after Article crying about it, how Jace was going to break Modern.
I know tronix mentioned the whole 'people were wrong on Jace' thing..but they were. We are talking Pro Tour level players. Article after Article crying about it, how Jace was going to break Modern.
It didnt.
SFM would do even less.
Exactly my thoughts. The funny thing is that I can't find one single person who admits that they were wrong about Jace, the Mind Sculptor, yet there are so many that are currently adamant against Stoneforge Mystic. Yet, I'm sure they'll "disappear" when it does eventually get unbanned and not do much.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
One point we should all think about in regards to Dredge: the reason it ate a ban a couple years ago is no longer valid. At the time, Dredge was really the only popular deck that demanded graveyard hate in your sideboard. These days, graveyard decks are much more abundant, so people have been running the hate already.
i still attribute more meaning to the 'battle of the sideboard' buzz phrase than sideboards being stretched too thin. dealing with artifact and GYs is one of the most generic and regular sideboard consideration.
what i remember about pre-ban dredge was that it combined being overwhelmingly favored game 1, and beating them required a specific level of hate quickly enough. so to me 'battle of the sideboards' only partially means being unable to devote enough slots to it, while the other part is that drawing a tiny subset of cards in your opening hand or first 1-2 draw steps did more to influence results significantly more than usual. whereas the norm involves being able to fight back effectively to some degree without getting rolled over.
is that happening now? probably not.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
So Humans still King...Dredge is back for real apparently. Not enough easy life gain to counter Dredge with Creeping Chill lol.
MTGO Challenges are crazy lol.
I just think it's hilarious that Stoneforge Mystic is banned because it "limits equipment development" because something might be broken. Meanwhile, we can't seem to go without breaking Dredge every handful of sets.
I don't think that's the reason it remains banned. Is there a source for that? I think the likeliest explanations are ones you've already mentioned. First, that Wizards is super conservative with unbans and will delay them for as long as possible to ensure they are safe. Second, they also wait longer in order to keep high profile unbans on deck to freshen formats. And third, they want to link unbans to set releases.
People make that argument all the damn time. There's literally someone arguing with me about it on reddit right now. He's like, "Just because they haven't made good equipment in a decade doesn't mean they couldn't." Some people are just delusional.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I mean they could we are what 4-5 years off or so from next broken Artifact Set. We have to go New Phyrexia eventually so. But I don't find potential brokenness a reason to keep SFM banned.
As for Dredge yeah I don't see how anyone looked at Creeping Chill and thought that was fair and balanced. What is the point of a playtest group if Black once again gets an unfair card.
my point on sfm wasnt that the community cant be wrong. just that 'jace was fine, therefore sfm will also be fine' is a non sequitur. similarly for stuff like 'turn 3 karn is possible, therefore sfm is safe'.
again, im not saying i personally think stoneforge is unsafe. rather that jace being fine, turn 3 karn, or whatever other degenerate plays by themselves isnt proof sfm IS safe.
for example there was a time in legacy where sfm was widely considered the most powerful creature in the format. a format where decks can kill you on turn 1 or whatever else.
in that respect, to believe sfm would have no impact in modern amounts to believing no deck, currently existing or otherwise, has the tools to support a 2 drop that isnt providing immediate disruption. maybe this is true, but i think its plausible for stoneforge to be playable in multiple decks that are competitively 'viable'. so unlike others as it seems, i actually favor a stoneforge unban because i think its right in the strikezone. good enough to promote decks id rather see across the table from me more regularly.
regardless the receptiveness to stoneforge as an unban is pretty high, to the point where id consider naysayers to be in the minority. whereas the opposite was probably true for jace up until the day he was unbanned up through his first month in modern. ironically, if the logic about the community being wrong before held up, then it would mean sfm would do way more than people expect.
oh yeah, and the 'limit design space' thing is nonsense, both for sfm and pod. i honestly think that wizards either was just saying the first thing that came to mind, or failed to relay that it was one of many aspects of the card that pushed it over the top.
if you think about it for a couple of seconds you realize that any powerful card/interaction that scales by caring about another 'limits design space'. a good portion decks and cards are capitalizing on this quality.
humans tribal too good? cant print humans. stirrings too good? cant print colorless/artifacts. dredge too good? cant print creeping chill. literally any card that could break something? cant print something that breaks it.
sinergee 2 stronk, cant maek cardz
the things you DO have to keep an eye on, are anything that scale exceptionally high rate as the card pool expands. either because they are a payoff that might become trivial to enable/abuse (ie treasure cruise), or can efficiently/cheaply enable a powerful card/interaction (ie probe). tutors, generating a resources for free, cheating on mana, caring about cheap artifacts or spells, moving cards between zones, etc.
for example imagine this hypothetical mechanic that was really good at milling your own library. like really good. i mean clearly if that mechanic existed, it would limit your ability to print cards that provide free value if they move from your library directly to your GY.
Those cards will potentially keep down uninteractive, fast aggro decks as much as it's needed, so that they won't need bannings.
Whenever people ask about what the benefit of unbanning something like Twin would be, this is really it. Fair police decks reduce the need to ban cards from the unfair decks because they keep them from getting out of hand, in just the same way that Force of Will keeps Legacy in check. I firmly believe that if Twin had not been banned, GGT and Probe wouldn't have been banned, at least not when they were. Dredge got out of hand in 2016, and Probe was enabling a combination of Infect, Death Shadow Zoo, and Bloo, who combined for a higher turn 3 kill rate than WotC liked having in the format. A big part of that was that the only police deck left, Jund, couldn't handle the format. Jund got beat up by Dredge, which in turn opened up space for the fast aggro/combo decks. The format needed Twin to help keep Dredge in check.
As it worked out, we got some bans, and the format actually improved a lot in the next couple years. Humans and GDS did a good job keeping Storm in check, and UW is doing a good job keeping the graveyard recursion decks in check, but I don't believe UW has a good Dredge matchup. I know GDS doesn't.
There is a problem with SFM slotting into a tier 1 deck(UW Control) though
SFM would not fit into the current build of UW Control. First of all, we just don't have the space to fit in a 6 or 7 card package. It just doesn't do what we want to be doing in that deck. We would have to cut a ton of interaction to fit it, which means we'd have a much harder time keeping control of a game, which invalidates the point of running it in the first place. The UW deck is good because of Terminus, and do you want to run SFM in a Terminus deck? Probably not.
No, SFM would make its own deck. It would be more of a tap-out control or midrange deck. Would that deck also be tier 1? Maybe. It would almost definitely cannibalize meta shares from UW Miracles and Jeskai Control, though. I'm not convinced it would be better than UW Miracles, though.
I would be very happy if Wizards goes this direction and unbans those two first cards post next-Modern Pro Tour.
Same. People need to realize that Modern is going to keep getting more powerful. WotC artificially kept the power in check for years by banning the best deck almost every year, but we as a community voiced our displeasure in that practice load and clear, and they've stopped. What that means, though, is that things that once were too powerful for the format are going to eventually be ok. SFM is clearly already there. I strongly believe Twin is, as well. A lot of people feel like GSZ is. We need to keep pressure on them to continue to avoid bannings whenever possible, and to instead release cards that should be ok now.
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Uhh define a joke. I dont know how that spiked it, but the MTGO meta is often a beast, its not like that was for a friendly league.
Spirits
This is what I was totally curious about. I don't play online. I have some friends who get close to top 8ing the challenges, but I don't recall a friend telling me specifically that they top 8ed a Challenge. (although hardly anybody tells me that they play in these, especially the Modern ones)
I'm also begging someone to tell me how that deck wins. Is it just wait until you have 2 cards in hand, Cragganwick Cremator and Impervious Greatwurm and then have a Cavern of Souls on Giant if needed, then dome them for 16? That can't be it, can it? (I'm sorry if I'm a bit dense; just came back from a long day at Knott's Berry Farm)
*Kind of sad that Lightning Bolt + discarding Impervious Greatwurm to Cremator is only 19 damage. While I'm sure that kills a lot of decks, there are some that won't push themselves under 20. (Merfolk, Tron, potentially Humans, KCI)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
People play extremely random things in challenges if you go back and look through them. I’d imagine one reason is because you can get published. I know of a few people that play in them and just mess around. I think they said a lot of the players in them tend to not be in the USA too and that might make a difference. But by joke I mean just people entering with random stuff for the lulz. Not all obviously as I believe the 3rd place person there is who won gpla while ago but still just my opinion.
I understand playing random stuff in tournaments. I do it myself from time to time (and probably will do it with this list as well after I just spent the last 15 minutes getting what I didn't have). But winning with these lists is another thing. It's hard enough to win with a good deck like KCI, Dredge, Humans, or UW Miracles, but winning with this list is just … well … amazing.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)the flaw with mtgo results stems from league completion time mattering in addition to sustained results, a hyper evolved meta, and the ease of card/deck acquisition leading to more immediate and dramatic bandwagoning.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I don't know for sure. WOTC has a long track record saying they don't like things which limit design space. Many people (pros, players, writers) state the conundrum of SFM limiting design space, since it can both find it and cheat equipment into play. Never mind that equipment has been unplayable trash since BS and the Swords, but I could easily put 2 and 2 together to see the naive old fogies at R&D feeling that way.
But I agree with my past statements as well: nothing is coming off, no matter how tame, lame, or safe, unless paired with some massive PR stunt or reprint.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
And once dredge ate the ban it didn’t really matter because you still had to have the gy hate. Old cards always pay the price for the new ones sadly. Chill doesn’t seems strong enough to me to push dredge over the edge. Just some new tech that’s all.
In the larger challenges? I dont know. I see a lot more 'real' decks, than I do weird ones like we see in Friendlys or Competitives.
Spirits
i dont agree with them, however i also admit that my opinion isnt formed from a place much more substantial than theirs. so its a matter of me thinking im right, but lacking ways to refute them.
youll see stuff like 'well people were wrong about jace', or 'x card/interaction/deck exists, therefore sfm is safe'. ive even see you say similar stuff cfusionpm. the issue with that line of reasoning is that it isnt a line at all. i may agree with the sentiment, but i just dont consider it a winning argument.
sfms unban candidacy, or most unbans for that matter, depends on wizards getting something out of it. a desired effect in mind, and it happening. hyping a product is a plus, and i attribute that to a rational business decision rather than greed or incompetence. if modern were trash, then i might think differently, however it isnt; its the most popular format. if that poll idsurge posted is anything to go by, its as popular as every other format combined. therefore not acting isnt a failure, because wizards has already succeeded in their primary obligation to the general population of modern players (they are failing at accessibility/prices though). modern is diverse, cycling regularly, gets a constant stream of playable cards, and new or upgraded decks making waves are a frequent occurrence. sfm is a footnote from a time in magic theyd rather forget and isnt exactly going to take modern to the next level of greatness or anything; so keeping that particular bullet (among others) in the chamber makes sense.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)He spoke about it a few times over the past bit on stream. With the new SCG championship thing, winning is more important he straight up believes Dredge is a stronger/better deck. Or at least it is right now.
He's also on Dredge for Legacy. He actually top 4'd the event with Orim67's list in the last one.
IMO, Storm isn't in a great place at the moment. It's not bad and can certainly do well with a good pilot, but so many decks right now can flat up race it's best hands. Which for a long time, was one of the strong points of the deck.
I've been mostly playing Bloo over Storm for the past month given how much of a race things are and have been doing quite well. Trying to race Bloo is often funny. For me.
Modern: Storm
Legacy: ANT
It didnt.
SFM would do even less.
Spirits
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Exactly my thoughts. The funny thing is that I can't find one single person who admits that they were wrong about Jace, the Mind Sculptor, yet there are so many that are currently adamant against Stoneforge Mystic. Yet, I'm sure they'll "disappear" when it does eventually get unbanned and not do much.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)i still attribute more meaning to the 'battle of the sideboard' buzz phrase than sideboards being stretched too thin. dealing with artifact and GYs is one of the most generic and regular sideboard consideration.
what i remember about pre-ban dredge was that it combined being overwhelmingly favored game 1, and beating them required a specific level of hate quickly enough. so to me 'battle of the sideboards' only partially means being unable to devote enough slots to it, while the other part is that drawing a tiny subset of cards in your opening hand or first 1-2 draw steps did more to influence results significantly more than usual. whereas the norm involves being able to fight back effectively to some degree without getting rolled over.
is that happening now? probably not.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
As for Dredge yeah I don't see how anyone looked at Creeping Chill and thought that was fair and balanced. What is the point of a playtest group if Black once again gets an unfair card.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
again, im not saying i personally think stoneforge is unsafe. rather that jace being fine, turn 3 karn, or whatever other degenerate plays by themselves isnt proof sfm IS safe.
for example there was a time in legacy where sfm was widely considered the most powerful creature in the format. a format where decks can kill you on turn 1 or whatever else.
in that respect, to believe sfm would have no impact in modern amounts to believing no deck, currently existing or otherwise, has the tools to support a 2 drop that isnt providing immediate disruption. maybe this is true, but i think its plausible for stoneforge to be playable in multiple decks that are competitively 'viable'. so unlike others as it seems, i actually favor a stoneforge unban because i think its right in the strikezone. good enough to promote decks id rather see across the table from me more regularly.
regardless the receptiveness to stoneforge as an unban is pretty high, to the point where id consider naysayers to be in the minority. whereas the opposite was probably true for jace up until the day he was unbanned up through his first month in modern. ironically, if the logic about the community being wrong before held up, then it would mean sfm would do way more than people expect.
oh yeah, and the 'limit design space' thing is nonsense, both for sfm and pod. i honestly think that wizards either was just saying the first thing that came to mind, or failed to relay that it was one of many aspects of the card that pushed it over the top.
if you think about it for a couple of seconds you realize that any powerful card/interaction that scales by caring about another 'limits design space'. a good portion decks and cards are capitalizing on this quality.
humans tribal too good? cant print humans. stirrings too good? cant print colorless/artifacts. dredge too good? cant print creeping chill. literally any card that could break something? cant print something that breaks it.
sinergee 2 stronk, cant maek cardz
the things you DO have to keep an eye on, are anything that scale exceptionally high rate as the card pool expands. either because they are a payoff that might become trivial to enable/abuse (ie treasure cruise), or can efficiently/cheaply enable a powerful card/interaction (ie probe). tutors, generating a resources for free, cheating on mana, caring about cheap artifacts or spells, moving cards between zones, etc.
for example imagine this hypothetical mechanic that was really good at milling your own library. like really good. i mean clearly if that mechanic existed, it would limit your ability to print cards that provide free value if they move from your library directly to your GY.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)As it worked out, we got some bans, and the format actually improved a lot in the next couple years. Humans and GDS did a good job keeping Storm in check, and UW is doing a good job keeping the graveyard recursion decks in check, but I don't believe UW has a good Dredge matchup. I know GDS doesn't.
SFM would not fit into the current build of UW Control. First of all, we just don't have the space to fit in a 6 or 7 card package. It just doesn't do what we want to be doing in that deck. We would have to cut a ton of interaction to fit it, which means we'd have a much harder time keeping control of a game, which invalidates the point of running it in the first place. The UW deck is good because of Terminus, and do you want to run SFM in a Terminus deck? Probably not.
No, SFM would make its own deck. It would be more of a tap-out control or midrange deck. Would that deck also be tier 1? Maybe. It would almost definitely cannibalize meta shares from UW Miracles and Jeskai Control, though. I'm not convinced it would be better than UW Miracles, though.
Same. People need to realize that Modern is going to keep getting more powerful. WotC artificially kept the power in check for years by banning the best deck almost every year, but we as a community voiced our displeasure in that practice load and clear, and they've stopped. What that means, though, is that things that once were too powerful for the format are going to eventually be ok. SFM is clearly already there. I strongly believe Twin is, as well. A lot of people feel like GSZ is. We need to keep pressure on them to continue to avoid bannings whenever possible, and to instead release cards that should be ok now.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW