The lack of interactive decks is a symptom of design philosophy in the past 10+ years that powered down interactive cards in favor of proactive ones. Unless this changes, or is currently in the process of changing behind the scenes, we will continue to see linear/non-interactive strategies dominating the top tables.
UW in the top 8 is nice though. Glad to see that deck doing well.
I'm not against bannings, but bans only act as bandaids until the next broken aggro/combo deck shows up. The real solution is changing card design and it isn't even close.
Twitch chat has been rife with soundbites like "Ban Looting", "Ban Stirrings", "Ban Opal", while ignoring that those cards aren't the best targets if you are to nerf KCI. Also, Noble or Vial decks have the same total representation as them in that day 2 breakdown
Aaaaand Jeff Hoogland blocked me from Twitter because I presented KTK's numbers on his ***** post. Damn, that man has a thin skin.
Twitch chat has been rife with soundbites like "Ban Looting", "Ban Stirrings", "Ban Opal", while ignoring that those cards aren't the best targets if you are to nerf KCI. Also, Noble or Vial decks have the same total representation as them in that day 2 breakdown
Aaaaand Jeff Hoogland blocked me from Twitter because I presented KTK's numbers on his ***** post. Damn, that man has a thin skin.
He made a comment about meta share and you (I believe) pointed out % of Top 8s, which had nothing to do with his comment or the original pie graph image.
Twitch chat has been rife with soundbites like "Ban Looting", "Ban Stirrings", "Ban Opal", while ignoring that those cards aren't the best targets if you are to nerf KCI. Also, Noble or Vial decks have the same total representation as them in that day 2 breakdown
Aaaaand Jeff Hoogland blocked me from Twitter because I presented KTK's numbers on his ***** post. Damn, that man has a thin skin.
Noble/Vial decks may have the same numbers but its a waste time. Unlike KCI, Spirits and Humans very much align with Current WOTC Design goals of creature aggro and loving tribal.
That is truly horrible. Time for a KCI or Trawler ban. I may try to put a blog post together this week condensing all the reasons, but it boils down to GP prevalence, MWP, potential (buy unproven) logistical issues, and negative play patterns that are widely disliked.
That is truly horrible. Time for a KCI or Trawler ban. I may try to put a blog post together this week condensing all the reasons, but it boils down to GP prevalence, MWP, potential (buy unproven) logistical issues, and negative play patterns that are widely disliked.
Twitch chat has been rife with soundbites like "Ban Looting", "Ban Stirrings", "Ban Opal", while ignoring that those cards aren't the best targets if you are to nerf KCI. Also, Noble or Vial decks have the same total representation as them in that day 2 breakdown
Aaaaand Jeff Hoogland blocked me from Twitter because I presented KTK's numbers on his ***** post. Damn, that man has a thin skin.
He made a comment about meta share and you (I believe) pointed out % of Top 8s, which had nothing to do with his comment or the original pie graph image.
He used this 1 event's metagame to make a dig at the WHOLE year's -average- Twin %, implying that Twin never got that high in day 2's. I just pointed out that he used 1 event versus a whole year and taht Twin's top 8 % was also an issue.
Twitch chat has been rife with soundbites like "Ban Looting", "Ban Stirrings", "Ban Opal", while ignoring that those cards aren't the best targets if you are to nerf KCI. Also, Noble or Vial decks have the same total representation as them in that day 2 breakdown
Aaaaand Jeff Hoogland blocked me from Twitter because I presented KTK's numbers on his ***** post. Damn, that man has a thin skin.
He made a comment about meta share and you (I believe) pointed out % of Top 8s, which had nothing to do with his comment or the original pie graph image.
He used this 1 event's metagame to make a dig at the WHOLE year's -average- Twin %, implying that Twin never got that high in day 2's. I just pointed out that he used 1 event versus a whole year and taht Twin's top 8 % was also an issue.
Do you have Day 2 numbers for Twin? Because I have personally broken down Twin's Top 8 numbers to conclude that many of them (including both winners) snuck in on tiebreakers, and one of the winners was recently ousted as a cheater.
That is truly horrible. Time for a KCI or Trawler ban. I may try to put a blog post together this week condensing all the reasons, but it boils down to GP prevalence, MWP, potential (buy unproven) logistical issues, and negative play patterns that are widely disliked.
Currently, the potential Stirrings issues are completely overshadowed by KCI itself being completely broken. Other Stirrings decks are mostly checked by a shift in metagame and sideboards. KCI is so good that it still places 4 decks in a T8 and maintains a 58%+ MWP AND allows Nass to get around a 90% MWP with the deck despite concentrated hate. No other Stirrings deck is accomplishing this.
That is truly horrible. Time for a KCI or Trawler ban. I may try to put a blog post together this week condensing all the reasons, but it boils down to GP prevalence, MWP, potential (buy unproven) logistical issues, and negative play patterns that are widely disliked.
It's clear from the results of recent Grands Prix that the KCI deck is the problem, not just anything with Stirrings in it. Anyone advocating for a Stirrings or Looting ban at this point is just clueless.
i mean i absolutely hope they don't ban anything. its such a bad look hitting a borderline deck.
and it IS borderline, as in we have been playing the format with it around and it certainly isnt any sorta eldrazi winter or treasure cruise situation. these types of bans are marquee in starting ban mania, and modern is in a state that is defined by exaggerated trends instigated by hype.
it validates the naysayers and discredits...whatever
its just bad. irreparable damage to the format
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
it wasnt an argument. unless your counterclaim is that kci is on the level of eldrazi winter.
maybe its over the line, regardless it is close to it, and that matters. for player confidence, and how the format is perceived. modern is already at a point with meme level criticism, and the format may be at a critical juncture of either being part of the future defined by arena or displaced.
modern was supposed to be different, more resilient, more self correcting. optimism for unbans, and constructive methods to solve format issues.
i dont even like kci, but bans seriously suck. great kci is dead, continue getting your teeth kicked in by whatever other degeneracy because a ban doesnt address any of the systemic issues keeping those midrange or control decks showing up more in top8s like you want.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
GP Vancouver (Feb 22nd, 2015): Day 2 18.49% (22 Players), 1 in the Top 8.
GP Charlotte (June 14th, 2015): Day 2 18% (56 Players), 2 in the Top 8.
GP Copenhagen (June 21st, 2015): Day 2 15.8% (25 Players), 1 in the Top 8.
GP Singapore (June 28th, 2015): Day 2 11.86% (14 Players), 1 in the top 8, 5 in the top 32.
GP Oklahoma (September 13th, 2015): Day 2 9% (15 Players), 1 in the top 8, 2 in the top 32.
GP Porto Alegre (November 1st, 2015): Day 2 9.52% (10 Players), 1 in the top 8, 1 in the top 16.
GP Pittsburgh (November 22nd, 2015): Day 2 12.1% (37 Players), 3 in the top 8, 2 in the top 32.
Included the number of players for the conversion rates which CBA to do atm
That's all I've found, I might've missed one. As you can see Twin has been at those heights of day 2 metagame percentage (and higher) in all but 2 GP's.
If they don't ban at this point any further ban/unban talk should be stopped forever.
Though that will never happen. People won't stop until we are all either trying to win with Flying Men or everybody is casting Ancestral Recall off their Mox Sapphire.
There is no middle ground and a decision needs to be made about in which direction the format will go. Standard plus or Legacy lite. Continued bannings is clearly the tool of the Standard plus camp that will not stop until chaining Siege Rhinos becomes the best way to victory. Unbannings, reprints and new cards are the tools of the other camp and Im firmly in that one.
Modern already became a bit of a laughing stock in the past because you had to hope that your deck never does well because otherwise it gets banned. Confirming that dynamic is like tronix said irreparable damage to the format and the trust in it.
So what would be next? We saw Phoenix decks have tons of explosive turns. Guess we ban that too.
7 mana on turn 3? Banned.
Playing a bunch of creatures that buff each other? Banned.
Playing a black 1 mana 13/13 creature? Banned
Where do we draw the line here, eh?
Right nobody can answer that because if I would ask 10 people I would get 12 different responses or something like that. "Just ban everything I personally don't like."
But there is one party who can answer this and those are the creators of the game. And I hope that they stop taking the easy way out by making announcements that invalidate entire decks and then sit on their hands the rest of the time.
This is after all no Treasure Cruise or Eldrazi era. It can be dealt with in a different way.
so half of the GP Oakland top 8 is KCI. I don't even know what to say about it. I don't really wanna see a ban but seeing that much of a deck in a top 8 is scary
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
UW in the top 8 is nice though. Glad to see that deck doing well.
I'm not against bannings, but bans only act as bandaids until the next broken aggro/combo deck shows up. The real solution is changing card design and it isn't even close.
Aaaaand Jeff Hoogland blocked me from Twitter because I presented KTK's numbers on his ***** post. Damn, that man has a thin skin.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
If it's not hit with a ban, they had better g****mn unban Twin.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Did ever a deck besides Eldrazi place more than 3 player into the top 8 of a modern GP?
Legacy: UWR Miracles [https://deckstats.net/decks/44442/1092831-uwr-miracles-2]
Spirits
Noble/Vial decks may have the same numbers but its a waste time. Unlike KCI, Spirits and Humans very much align with Current WOTC Design goals of creature aggro and loving tribal.
KCI vs The Field. Lol.
That is truly horrible. Time for a KCI or Trawler ban. I may try to put a blog post together this week condensing all the reasons, but it boils down to GP prevalence, MWP, potential (buy unproven) logistical issues, and negative play patterns that are widely disliked.
What happened to your red light stance regarding Ancient Stirrings?
He used this 1 event's metagame to make a dig at the WHOLE year's -average- Twin %, implying that Twin never got that high in day 2's. I just pointed out that he used 1 event versus a whole year and taht Twin's top 8 % was also an issue.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Currently, the potential Stirrings issues are completely overshadowed by KCI itself being completely broken. Other Stirrings decks are mostly checked by a shift in metagame and sideboards. KCI is so good that it still places 4 decks in a T8 and maintains a 58%+ MWP AND allows Nass to get around a 90% MWP with the deck despite concentrated hate. No other Stirrings deck is accomplishing this.
Spirits
and it IS borderline, as in we have been playing the format with it around and it certainly isnt any sorta eldrazi winter or treasure cruise situation. these types of bans are marquee in starting ban mania, and modern is in a state that is defined by exaggerated trends instigated by hype.
it validates the naysayers and discredits...whatever
its just bad. irreparable damage to the format
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Spirits
maybe its over the line, regardless it is close to it, and that matters. for player confidence, and how the format is perceived. modern is already at a point with meme level criticism, and the format may be at a critical juncture of either being part of the future defined by arena or displaced.
modern was supposed to be different, more resilient, more self correcting. optimism for unbans, and constructive methods to solve format issues.
i dont even like kci, but bans seriously suck. great kci is dead, continue getting your teeth kicked in by whatever other degeneracy because a ban doesnt address any of the systemic issues keeping those midrange or control decks showing up more in top8s like you want.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Now, I feel White is flavoured against KCI, so do you free SFM and power up white and leave the indisputable best deck untouched?
KCI needs a Nerf, period, or you better release SFM and Twin.
Spirits
GP Vancouver (Feb 22nd, 2015): Day 2 18.49% (22 Players), 1 in the Top 8.
GP Charlotte (June 14th, 2015): Day 2 18% (56 Players), 2 in the Top 8.
GP Copenhagen (June 21st, 2015): Day 2 15.8% (25 Players), 1 in the Top 8.
GP Singapore (June 28th, 2015): Day 2 11.86% (14 Players), 1 in the top 8, 5 in the top 32.
GP Oklahoma (September 13th, 2015): Day 2 9% (15 Players), 1 in the top 8, 2 in the top 32.
GP Porto Alegre (November 1st, 2015): Day 2 9.52% (10 Players), 1 in the top 8, 1 in the top 16.
GP Pittsburgh (November 22nd, 2015): Day 2 12.1% (37 Players), 3 in the top 8, 2 in the top 32.
Included the number of players for the conversion rates which CBA to do atm
That's all I've found, I might've missed one. As you can see Twin has been at those heights of day 2 metagame percentage (and higher) in all but 2 GP's.
EDIT: The system ****s up my formatting
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/StarCityGamescom_Team_Open/2019-01-05_modern_Columbus_OH_US/1/
Spirits
Though that will never happen. People won't stop until we are all either trying to win with Flying Men or everybody is casting Ancestral Recall off their Mox Sapphire.
There is no middle ground and a decision needs to be made about in which direction the format will go. Standard plus or Legacy lite. Continued bannings is clearly the tool of the Standard plus camp that will not stop until chaining Siege Rhinos becomes the best way to victory. Unbannings, reprints and new cards are the tools of the other camp and Im firmly in that one.
Modern already became a bit of a laughing stock in the past because you had to hope that your deck never does well because otherwise it gets banned. Confirming that dynamic is like tronix said irreparable damage to the format and the trust in it.
So what would be next? We saw Phoenix decks have tons of explosive turns. Guess we ban that too.
7 mana on turn 3? Banned.
Playing a bunch of creatures that buff each other? Banned.
Playing a black 1 mana 13/13 creature? Banned
Where do we draw the line here, eh?
Right nobody can answer that because if I would ask 10 people I would get 12 different responses or something like that. "Just ban everything I personally don't like."
But there is one party who can answer this and those are the creators of the game. And I hope that they stop taking the easy way out by making announcements that invalidate entire decks and then sit on their hands the rest of the time.
This is after all no Treasure Cruise or Eldrazi era. It can be dealt with in a different way.