Karn by himself can also shut off some aggro's strategy that deals with a Karn Liberated on the battlefied and that is Aether Vial. This Karn can just hose vial decks including the Ensnaring Bridge, but it also stops tempo plays that allow aggro decks to try to come back even after a Karn is landed. (Aggro Decks don't talk about Ugin). Decks like Humans, Merfolk, Spirits, etc.
Karn into Bridge seems rather mediocre tbh, cause Tron cannot empty their hand that fast usually. Sure, they have lots of mana, but their spells are also on the expensive side. Hence, instead of Bridge they need to find a different card to deal with Aggro.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
As a Tron player since day 1 Modern I get all of the doomsaying for new Karn, but I don't think it'll be that bad. It is another threat in a long line of Tron threats. What it does do is lower the Tron threat cmc overall so that it is easier to play games in which your mana is attacked, and makes the deck more artifact-centric if it is adopted as the norm. I can see cutting some of the more clunky/non-Tron dead threats in favour for 3-4 of new Karn being the norm. Something like -1 World Breaker, -1 Oblivion Stone, -1 Wurmcoil Engine, -1 Walking Ballista will be easy since you can't cast a T3 World Breaker off of natural Tron, and the others so you have one tutorable with Karn, the Great Creator. The deck would then look like this:
You have Emrakul, Spyglass, and Defense Grid for Control. Thragtusk, OStone, Bridge, Wurmcoil for Midrange & Aggro, and any deck that doesn't threaten your T3 Karn, the Great Creator just dies to Mycosynth Lattice.
Tons of combos and then karn+coating or abrade+coating controls the board. This is where I'll be starting and this is rough draft. Two different Combos as early as t3 and you can technically have rebuke or apostles up to protect the combo.
I don't think the sky is falling with newKawn but I do reserve the right to now laugh even harder in the face of anyone who claims Birthing Pod and Stoneforge Mystic should stay banned for limiting design space
It is also more aggressive than snapcaster since you can simply double each of your pump spells.
I think it has real potential.
The zero CMC cards are probably too cute in general since they are mostly build around But this guy just flashing back 1 CMC spells is powerful. Getting double use out of Lightning Bolt or Lava Spike is brutal.
Against many-creatures-aggro you tutor an Ostone, what's the problem? It's not like you are gonna get that off faster without Karn. Against high power creatures you probably get bridge better.
It is also more aggressive than snapcaster since you can simply double each of your pump spells.
I think it has real potential.
Jumping through the hoops of binning free spells is not the first place I would go with this, just being able to flashback cmc1 spells seems more straightforward. Its stats are pretty crummy but being a wizard is relevant.
agreed. unlike with electrodominance where i just didnt get the vibe that it could be used for value like many others were; the opposite is true for the 2-drop. so maybe a roleplayer in an aggressive or midrange strategy that can better capitalize on the value + tempo of just regular cheap spells. so yeah im thinking stuff like UR wizards that could use the tempo from a free spell to hold up countermagic, or grixis/mardu midrange. young pyro is a fine card, but its just rarely ever well positioned as main deckable other than as some flex inclusion.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Yeah, that Liliana themed edict is a big freaking deal. Two mana removal that can handle an early primevel titan, emrakul, bogle, or gurmag angler. Heck the BR edict is even viable due to its versatility. Best of one card design is going to really help eternal formats.
Anyone else think that Lazotep Plating might see Modern play? For 1U at instant speed, you virtually get a 1/1 and omni-Hexproof for you and your permanents.
Anyone else think that Lazotep Plating might see Modern play? For 1U at instant speed, you virtually get a 1/1 and omni-Hexproof for you and your permanents.
But which deck would want to have that effect?
At best case it is a Negate + a 1/1 Token for 2 Mana vs removal spells, something not many decks (if one at all) would want. Only RUG Delver plays something similar in Simic Charm and Simic Charm does much more than that spell (cause it either pumps, protects or is a tempo removal).
I can see the benefits of that card, but no deck wanting that effect.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Dreadhorde Arcanist seems like it should work well in Rx Burn and maybe even UR Phoenix. The main issue I see with it is that it's fairly vulnerable to removal, but the upside of a free spell a turn is probably worth it. I don't think it's comparable to Snapcaster, though. I'd compare it to Aether Vial and say that it's probably a little less efficient, but with a bit more card advantage potential.
Invade the City looks like a solid threat for UR Phoenix decks. I don't know if its better than Crackling Drake, but it is cheaper, which is nice.
Vivian's Arkbow is borderline playable. I could see an argument for it in Vizier Druid combo decks as a way to tutor out a kill combo, but I don't think it's better than Recruiter in that shell. I could also see a hypothetical creature-based ramp deck wanting it, but I'm not really aware of deck that can utilize the Arkbow in Modern. It isn't a Survival of the Fittest replacement, it isn't a Birthing Pod replacement, and I don't think it's quite strong enough to spawn a new archetype.
Flux Channeler is interesting. It's got an obvious home in Dice Factory Combo, but I'm not sure how "win more" it is. I do know that I'll have fun trying her out though.
Karn, the Great Creator seems to be pretty... situational at best. He's basically 2 Artifact Wishes stapled to a Stony Silence. I mean, it's neat that he can almost be a 1-card combo with Mycosynth Lattice, but you've still got to actually cast, resolve, and protect the Lattice. He's powerful to be sure, but I'm drawing a blank on any deck that would actually be more effective with him in it's 60. I can definitely see him as a sideboard card in Tron though. I could be mistaken on this guy, and he might be strong enough to spawn a new archetype, but I don't see him taking over Modern. It is cool that he can kill opposing Chalice of the Voids with his +1.
Kaya's Ghostform is a very interesting card to me. On one hand, it's initially card disadvantage, and is basically a do-nothing spell. However, the fact that it's a 1-mana card that could allow you reuse planeswalkers after they ultimate in B is pretty interesting, especially since you can immediately use their abilities again right after. I could see an Esper or Sultai Superfriends deck running a few of these in the 60. It's almost like a mini Sun Titan.
Dovin's Veto is a nice upgrade on Negate for UWx control. Not much to say on it either way, but it will see play.
Angrath's Rampage is almost playable. I like the modal nature of it, but the decks that need this effect need it at instant speed. So close, yet so far.
Ral, Storm Conduit looks like a solid choice for Jeskai Control sideboards. He's a little too expensive for his effects in Phoenix or Storm, but he's great as a way to grind out prison decks and control decks. Turning Lightning Helix into 8 damage and 6 life is pretty strong with his -2. Heck, even Lightning Bolts become 8 damage for 1 mana, if I'm reading the way his -2 interacts with his passive correctly.
Haven't seen much discussion on it yet, but I think Dreadhorde Butcher is very playable. On curve it can trade with an X/2 if the opponent has a blocker, and against anything other than exile removal it will always deal damage. Seems quite good for an aggro deck, and it has two potentially relevant creature types.
Is there something to the fact that Ral can turn 2 Reverberate effects into Lethal? Or is that too many pieces. 1 Ral, 2 Copy Spells, 1 original spell.
Ral does damage from all the copies which makes this lethal unlike the Enchant or Sorcery version
i meant you could use those cards to enable the ral combo (by infinitely looping the copy effect, which otherwise does nothing without ral). ascension can be played earlier and has proven to be a relatively strong buildaround card in its own right, and doublecast removes the requirement of the third random spell.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
just play turn 1 Darksteel Citadel, Mox Opal, Ornithopter and Springleaf Drum into Liquimetal Coating, then Turn 2 any Land+ Karn, the Great Creator... then mayyybe wait for the Lattice on later turns.
I like repeatable land destruction from turn 2 on. ( Yeas the probability on this is low, but I guess the deck can run a typical Whir shell too)
Competetive: Lantern Control, MonoR Phoenix, Dredge
Meta-Dependant: Modern Cheeri0s, Esper Spirits, Wilderness Teachings , Modern Elves, All-in Death's Shadow, Aristocrats, BW Death&Taxes
Fun own projects: Spireside Industries, UB Scrapyard, Thundercat Worship, Dirty Kitten, RB Rock, Eternal Toolbox
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Creature
1 Walking Ballista
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Sorcery
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
Artifact
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Oblivion Stone
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Sanctum of Ugin
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Forest
1 Thragtusk
1 Emrakul, The Promised End
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Nature's Claim
1 Defense Grid
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Trinisphere
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Wurmcoil Engine
To go even further, the sideboard toolbox can have every good Artifact <= 3 cmc. The list can include but is not limited to:
Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus
Engineered Explosives
Chalice of the Void
Pithing Needle/Sorcerous Spyglass
Grafdigger's Cage
Spellskite
Dragon's Claw/Sun Droplet
Defense Grid
Trinisphere
Ensnaring Bridge
Oblivion Stone
Crucible of Worlds
Witchbane Orb
Mycosynth Lattice
Walking Ballista
Wurmcoil Engine
Maybe it's too deep on New Karn, as you open yourself up to more aggro and rely heavily on Bridge, but I'll for sure have fun trying it out!
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
It is also more aggressive than snapcaster since you can simply double each of your pump spells.
I think it has real potential.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
3 scalding tarn
2 arid Mesa
2 spirebluff canal
3 darksteel citadel
2 island
1 mountain
1 plains
1 steam vents
1 sacred foundry
1 hallowed fountain
1 inventor's fair
4 abrade
3 metallic rebuke
4 karn, the great creator
4 saheeli rai
4 mox opal
4 altar of the brood
4 liquimetal coating
2 spellskite
3 felidar guardian
2 phyrexian Metamorph
1 ensnaring bridge
1 graffdigger's cage
2 relic of progenitus
1 tormond's crypt
2 filigree familiar
2 auriok champion
4 apostle's blessing
2 leonin relic warder
Tons of combos and then karn+coating or abrade+coating controls the board. This is where I'll be starting and this is rough draft. Two different Combos as early as t3 and you can technically have rebuke or apostles up to protect the combo.
Competetive: Lantern Control, MonoR Phoenix, Dredge
Meta-Dependant: Modern Cheeri0s, Esper Spirits, Wilderness Teachings , Modern Elves, All-in Death's Shadow, Aristocrats, BW Death&Taxes
Fun own projects: Spireside Industries, UB Scrapyard, Thundercat Worship, Dirty Kitten, RB Rock, Eternal Toolbox
The zero CMC cards are probably too cute in general since they are mostly build around But this guy just flashing back 1 CMC spells is powerful. Getting double use out of Lightning Bolt or Lava Spike is brutal.
Jumping through the hoops of binning free spells is not the first place I would go with this, just being able to flashback cmc1 spells seems more straightforward. Its stats are pretty crummy but being a wizard is relevant.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)At best case it is a Negate + a 1/1 Token for 2 Mana vs removal spells, something not many decks (if one at all) would want. Only RUG Delver plays something similar in Simic Charm and Simic Charm does much more than that spell (cause it either pumps, protects or is a tempo removal).
I can see the benefits of that card, but no deck wanting that effect.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Invade the City looks like a solid threat for UR Phoenix decks. I don't know if its better than Crackling Drake, but it is cheaper, which is nice.
Vivian's Arkbow is borderline playable. I could see an argument for it in Vizier Druid combo decks as a way to tutor out a kill combo, but I don't think it's better than Recruiter in that shell. I could also see a hypothetical creature-based ramp deck wanting it, but I'm not really aware of deck that can utilize the Arkbow in Modern. It isn't a Survival of the Fittest replacement, it isn't a Birthing Pod replacement, and I don't think it's quite strong enough to spawn a new archetype.
Flux Channeler is interesting. It's got an obvious home in Dice Factory Combo, but I'm not sure how "win more" it is. I do know that I'll have fun trying her out though.
Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage could be a budget replacement for Liliana of the Veil in 8-rack.
Karn, the Great Creator seems to be pretty... situational at best. He's basically 2 Artifact Wishes stapled to a Stony Silence. I mean, it's neat that he can almost be a 1-card combo with Mycosynth Lattice, but you've still got to actually cast, resolve, and protect the Lattice. He's powerful to be sure, but I'm drawing a blank on any deck that would actually be more effective with him in it's 60. I can definitely see him as a sideboard card in Tron though. I could be mistaken on this guy, and he might be strong enough to spawn a new archetype, but I don't see him taking over Modern. It is cool that he can kill opposing Chalice of the Voids with his +1.
Kaya's Ghostform is a very interesting card to me. On one hand, it's initially card disadvantage, and is basically a do-nothing spell. However, the fact that it's a 1-mana card that could allow you reuse planeswalkers after they ultimate in B is pretty interesting, especially since you can immediately use their abilities again right after. I could see an Esper or Sultai Superfriends deck running a few of these in the 60. It's almost like a mini Sun Titan.
Dovin's Veto is a nice upgrade on Negate for UWx control. Not much to say on it either way, but it will see play.
Angrath's Rampage is almost playable. I like the modal nature of it, but the decks that need this effect need it at instant speed. So close, yet so far.
Ral, Storm Conduit looks like a solid choice for Jeskai Control sideboards. He's a little too expensive for his effects in Phoenix or Storm, but he's great as a way to grind out prison decks and control decks. Turning Lightning Helix into 8 damage and 6 life is pretty strong with his -2. Heck, even Lightning Bolts become 8 damage for 1 mana, if I'm reading the way his -2 interacts with his passive correctly.
This is not just kinda like Thragtusk, it's also kinda like Flametongue Kavu (in GW!). Might be worth it in Elves' SB against fair decks.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)