I agree that no changes is probably the best outcome for Modern right now but I didn't like that they used the MC as an indicator of how Modern fares to be honest.
We shouldnt be surprised that they did however, with precedent and all.
I've also been playing Modern since before the Twin ban, and to say that the current format is anything like the GGT/Probe one is just absurd. That meta was problematic because the undisputed best decks either killed you on turn 2/3 (Infect and DS Zoo) with perfect information, or presented unbeatable inevitability that required a minimum of 4-6 sideboard cards to overcome (Dredge). The closest thing to that level of degeneracy currently seeing play is Neoform, which is still struggling to put up consistent results and is not even close to the meta share that those three decks occupied at that time.
More referring to the majority of top decks creating awful play patterns and extreme variance; relying on sideboard hate cards or whiffing in order to be successful against.
If you knew, for certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt that Twin was never being unbanned, would you actually still be playing the format? It really just seems like you're always just hoping for a Twin unban, and literally nothing else is worth considering.
I am under no delusion it will ever come back, because I have absolutely no faith in Wizards to fix that mistake.
I would be happy if they were able to give tempo/control decks a win condition that wasn't "hope this PW lives to ultimate." Utility flash creatures like Nimble Obstructionist were a step in the right direction. Unfortunately they did not explore that further. They seem to focus more on sorcery speed threats and I personally hate that.
I am advocating for a Preordain and a Stoneforge Mystic unban for quite a while but having the slightest hope of anything other than "No changes" in this ban announcement is ludicrous to say the least.
It was more than obvious that until everything settles a couple of months after MH actually is released, they will do absolutely nothing other than bans to the format.
We can like it we can hate it but this is the reality of the format.
One thing that puzzles me though is people that threaten to stop playing the format every single time an announcement is made but they continuously come back or don't actually leave at all. To be fair, this threat is actually one of my guilty pleasures. Even when I wasn't playing Magic quite as much, during and after Eldrazi Winter, I still came here just to have a giggle or two. But after a while hearing all the time the same rhetoric, the same non-arguments, the same topics always deriving the conversation out of the main goal of the threat, you actually kinda get tired of it.
Back on topic... I was happy that they made the alert about Karn TGC and Neoform, but it took me by surprise their mention of the other combo that to my knowledge never actually was a thing. I may be mistaken but aside from the GerryT's article that combo never had any notoriety at all, right?
About Nimble Mongoose, it was a card that I "predicted" with my friends but now that it's out it got me thinking. It's a mechanic that we don't actually ever deal with in Modern. Do you think it has any legs to get crazy? I'm all for UGx Delver starting to become a thing but Shroud is such a non-fun mechanic that I wonder...
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Currently Playing: WUMiracles ControlUW RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
About Nimble Mongoose, it was a card that I "predicted" with my friends but now that it's out it got me thinking. It's a mechanic that we don't actually ever deal with in Modern. Do you think it has any legs to get crazy? I'm all for UGx Delver starting to become a thing but Shroud is such a non-fun mechanic that I wonder...
Shroud is about a thousand times better than Hexproof.
Hexproof is likely one of the worst mechanics ever created.
If you're referring to Threshold, I can say that Wild Nacatl already isn't super awesome. And giving it Shroud doesn't make it much better.
Shroud is about a thousand times better than Hexproof.
Uh... isn‘t it the other way around? Since with Shroud, you can‘t pump, enchant or equip your creature.
I meant to play against. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I hate hexproof with a burning passion because its effect is not symmetrical and frequently abused. It creates unfun games and promotes uninteractive play patterns.
So, modern got Horizon Canopies for a bunch of colors. I'm happy for modern as a whole...but I'm also sad for BGx, as this is definitely not a good thing, opponents drawing more instead of flooding or being starved of resources goes against the plan.
It's great for modern, bad for midrange. Also, this looks gross for dredge, they can draw cards and keep using loam.
You know that BGx can use one of these as well, right? It's a tool that you can use.
I think they're a great deck building option. I can think of a few places where I absolutely want these and others where I know that the life loss will be fatal. BGx can benefit from their opponent paying life for a few turns, BGx can benefit from being able to draw their own cards with this land.
These lands have real costs to use. That's a wonderful thing for the format... Choices, options, costs. Not just "I get everything and it costs me nothing".
Shroud is about a thousand times better than Hexproof.
Uh... isn‘t it the other way around? Since with Shroud, you can‘t pump, enchant or equip your creature.
I think he means that shroud is bad, but hexproof is worse.
Which one is "worse" to you really depends on what side of the coin you're on. So, it is very subjective which is worse … or better.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
You know that BGx can use one of these as well, right? It's a tool that you can use.
I think they're a great deck building option. I can think of a few places where I absolutely want these and others where I know that the life loss will be fatal. BGx can benefit from their opponent paying life for a few turns, BGx can benefit from being able to draw their own cards with this land.
These lands have real costs to use. That's a wonderful thing for the format... Choices, options, costs. Not just "I get everything and it costs me nothing".
I don't think your grasping the concept of how much more impactful this is to a linear deck that isn't concerned with life loss to kill quickly. I'm not going to tap 1 damage per turn, play Bob, have fetches and thoughtseizes. This is maybe...a 1 of? 2 of? Players stuffing this in their decks will be punished when burn plays 4x of these.
I have no clue what the impact of this land with shadow decks are, and that needs to be assessed. For Jund and Rock...this is very bad for us and stretches us out in different directions even further.
Well I guess that settles whether or not we ever get Preordain.
Hopefully this does not mean Wizards is done scouring all possibilities, although it's probably nearly 100% at this point that Preordain won't see the light of day in Modern. Sad for many...
Maybe it means that they are going to Scour all Possibilities and see how it does; disclaimer: we know it will be pretty poor in Modern. The message is a bit cryptic too in that when we try to guess the future, it leads to many more questions.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Well I guess that settles whether or not we ever get Preordain.
Hopefully this does not mean Wizards is done scouring all possibilities, although it's probably nearly 100% at this point that Preordain won't see the light of day in Modern. Sad for many...
Maybe it means that they are going to Scour all Possibilities and see how it does; disclaimer: we know it will be pretty poor in Modern. The message is a bit cryptic too in that when we try to guess the future, it leads to many more questions.
I would have traded Flashback for Instant speed any day. Anticipate is terrible, but 2 mana Instant Preordain is downright reasonable. But a 2 mana sorcery speed cantrip in Modern is totally unplayable in almost all but the most extreme of cases (like Discovery being played in Grishoalbrand).
Gds is a good deck, it didn't become bad. Ita just at the moment the meta is awful for it, even at an fnm level. Some high level gds players feel itd very poorly positioned right now. Humans wish tron, dredge and uw...very brutal to hope to dodge so much.
I'm very new to GDS and I might be talking rubbish here, but in testing I've found Wish Tron perfectly fine - I find myself either ripping their mana fixing out of their hand so they never hit tron in the first place, or countering their fetching spells/threats and winning with a fast clock.
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Modern: UR Gifts Storm URB Grixis Death's Shadow R12 Bolt
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
Based on the MH spoilers thus far I think it's unlikely that we end up getting Counterspell added to the format. Still many cards yet to be revealed, but that's the vibe I'm getting from these new cards which generally seem to be worse versions of existing cards.
It's mainly just the extra blast zones running around that hurt the idea of dropping 2x quick Shadows. It's not an awful matchup. But take a look on mtggoldfish, a lot of the top lists right now are matches you'd want to dodge or not feel great seeing.
I'm extremely disappointed with Horizon spoilers thus far, midrange is getting absolutely nothing so far. And no, the Force cycle for black is not some auto include. The Horizon lands are more detrimental to us than of help.
At this point if there's not some fixed and powerful version of DRS, Hym or Sylvan Library this is looking to be a major disappointment. Extra removal isn't what we need either.
We shouldnt be surprised that they did however, with precedent and all.
Spirits
More referring to the majority of top decks creating awful play patterns and extreme variance; relying on sideboard hate cards or whiffing in order to be successful against.
I am under no delusion it will ever come back, because I have absolutely no faith in Wizards to fix that mistake.
I would be happy if they were able to give tempo/control decks a win condition that wasn't "hope this PW lives to ultimate." Utility flash creatures like Nimble Obstructionist were a step in the right direction. Unfortunately they did not explore that further. They seem to focus more on sorcery speed threats and I personally hate that.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
It was more than obvious that until everything settles a couple of months after MH actually is released, they will do absolutely nothing other than bans to the format.
We can like it we can hate it but this is the reality of the format.
One thing that puzzles me though is people that threaten to stop playing the format every single time an announcement is made but they continuously come back or don't actually leave at all. To be fair, this threat is actually one of my guilty pleasures. Even when I wasn't playing Magic quite as much, during and after Eldrazi Winter, I still came here just to have a giggle or two. But after a while hearing all the time the same rhetoric, the same non-arguments, the same topics always deriving the conversation out of the main goal of the threat, you actually kinda get tired of it.
Back on topic... I was happy that they made the alert about Karn TGC and Neoform, but it took me by surprise their mention of the other combo that to my knowledge never actually was a thing. I may be mistaken but aside from the GerryT's article that combo never had any notoriety at all, right?
About Nimble Mongoose, it was a card that I "predicted" with my friends but now that it's out it got me thinking. It's a mechanic that we don't actually ever deal with in Modern. Do you think it has any legs to get crazy? I'm all for UGx Delver starting to become a thing but Shroud is such a non-fun mechanic that I wonder...
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
Shroud is about a thousand times better than Hexproof.
Hexproof is likely one of the worst mechanics ever created.
If you're referring to Threshold, I can say that Wild Nacatl already isn't super awesome. And giving it Shroud doesn't make it much better.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Uh... isn‘t it the other way around? Since with Shroud, you can‘t pump, enchant or equip your creature.
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
It's great for modern, bad for midrange. Also, this looks gross for dredge, they can draw cards and keep using loam.
I think he means that shroud is bad, but hexproof is worse.
I think they're a great deck building option. I can think of a few places where I absolutely want these and others where I know that the life loss will be fatal. BGx can benefit from their opponent paying life for a few turns, BGx can benefit from being able to draw their own cards with this land.
These lands have real costs to use. That's a wonderful thing for the format... Choices, options, costs. Not just "I get everything and it costs me nothing".
"Reveal a Dragon"
Which one is "worse" to you really depends on what side of the coin you're on. So, it is very subjective which is worse … or better.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
Hexproof = 13/13 idiotic bogle.
Shroud = 1/1 bogle.
Spirits
Fair point.
I meant to say that the means to getting rid of it often stay the same.
Edit: Screw totem armor. Get Ugin down by turn 4.
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
I don't think your grasping the concept of how much more impactful this is to a linear deck that isn't concerned with life loss to kill quickly. I'm not going to tap 1 damage per turn, play Bob, have fetches and thoughtseizes. This is maybe...a 1 of? 2 of? Players stuffing this in their decks will be punished when burn plays 4x of these.
I have no clue what the impact of this land with shadow decks are, and that needs to be assessed. For Jund and Rock...this is very bad for us and stretches us out in different directions even further.
http://mythicspoiler.com/mh1/cards/scourallpossibilities.html?fbclid=IwAR0Z5Ud8-97hVeFmpovNp2je9Zb39pzHtCekm3AvzCXSGufk9ZK04je4M-8
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Even SFM at this point, with Control and potentially UW Midrange being a thing? Nope.
I'm just going to assume that what is banned, stays there.
Spirits
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Hopefully this does not mean Wizards is done scouring all possibilities, although it's probably nearly 100% at this point that Preordain won't see the light of day in Modern. Sad for many...
Maybe it means that they are going to Scour all Possibilities and see how it does; disclaimer: we know it will be pretty poor in Modern. The message is a bit cryptic too in that when we try to guess the future, it leads to many more questions.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Spirits
I would have traded Flashback for Instant speed any day. Anticipate is terrible, but 2 mana Instant Preordain is downright reasonable. But a 2 mana sorcery speed cantrip in Modern is totally unplayable in almost all but the most extreme of cases (like Discovery being played in Grishoalbrand).
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I'm very new to GDS and I might be talking rubbish here, but in testing I've found Wish Tron perfectly fine - I find myself either ripping their mana fixing out of their hand so they never hit tron in the first place, or countering their fetching spells/threats and winning with a fast clock.
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
I'm extremely disappointed with Horizon spoilers thus far, midrange is getting absolutely nothing so far. And no, the Force cycle for black is not some auto include. The Horizon lands are more detrimental to us than of help.
At this point if there's not some fixed and powerful version of DRS, Hym or Sylvan Library this is looking to be a major disappointment. Extra removal isn't what we need either.