I wanted to open a discussion about the reasons why, so far, Jace TMS is better in legacy than it is in Modern, since, you know, most cards that are good in legacy should be even better in modern.
I'd say it has a lot to do with the non interactivity of modern. There isn't really a Uxx value deck where Jace can shine. In a draw go counterspell deck you don' really want to tap out on turn 4 and playing a regular midrange deck leads to loosing on turn 3.
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I apologize for my English, it's not my main language.
I would argue that they are equally powerful, there are just less decks to host JtMS in modern. When Jace lands in UWx modern and survives, the game is over quite quickly, which is also the case in Legacy. Miracles, the equivalent UW deck of Legacy plays JtmS in a similar way as modern UW control.
In legacy we also have Sultai decks that feature him, and also UWx stoneblade that has the potential to run him, strategies which are under-represented in modern for reasons unrelated to JtMS.
Pretty much covered more creatures, more direct damage bolts, and it being very bad to tap out with zero protection.
He is better now though in UWx shell you can play Small Teferi the turn before then Jace and then hold up Pact of Negation before sticking Big Teferi and having counter magic up from here on out.
More creatures in Modern, blue is busted in Legacy, and Force of Will
If this is a sneeky breeky way to make people more aware that Force of Negation is a damn good card then I agree
Hahaha, bingo, pro points for you!
Yeah, I agree it's pretty much what everyone has said, less creatures, maybe less burn, and fow. How much weight each of those things represents in the scale is hard to know, but I think fow is the main one.
Fateseal is just OK
Bounce a creature is sometimes really awful (etbs)
Brainstorm ain't the powerhouse it is in Legacy
Lack of free protection makes it hard to slam it on 4 (even new Force doesn't stop counters or removal on your turn)
Lack of actual Brainstorm and good top of deck manipulation makes Miracles a variance lottery.
I still jam him in my blue decks, but he often feels like the worst card I can cast most of the time, and is really only there as a win condition for grindy games because most win conditions are even worse.
Fateseal is just OK
Bounce a creature is sometimes really awful (etbs)
Brainstorm ain't the powerhouse it is in Legacy
Lack of free protection makes it hard to slam it on 4 (even new Force doesn't stop counters or removal on your turn)
Lack of actual Brainstorm and good top of deck manipulation makes Miracles a variance lottery.
I still jam him in my blue decks, but he often feels like the worst card I can cast most of the time, and is really only there as a win condition for grindy games because most win conditions are even worse.
I'm sorry but +2 is pretty broken, as is +0 brainstorm, doesn't matter the format as long as it has fetches.
There can be several reasons why JTMS doesn't shine in modern but the brokenness of his abilities can't be one.
Fateseal is just OK
Bounce a creature is sometimes really awful (etbs)
Brainstorm ain't the powerhouse it is in Legacy
I *strongly* disagree, especially on the last point. If you get two Brainstorms and a shuffle in, the game is over.
If you and your Jace live long enough to do that, sure?
If you are untapping with a JTMS, two Brainstorm activations, and a shuffle, you are almost definitionally living "long enough to do that." When Ux gets the JTMS and Teferi going for multiple turns, it tends to win. This is both because JTMS/Teferi help them win and because their survival is an indicator that the game is stabilized in Ux's favor. If you slam JTMS on T4 into a dangerous battlefield or game state, then yeah, you're probably going to lose. But that has nothing to do with the power of JTMS' abilities in different situations.
Fateseal is just OK
Bounce a creature is sometimes really awful (etbs)
Brainstorm ain't the powerhouse it is in Legacy
I *strongly* disagree, especially on the last point. If you get two Brainstorms and a shuffle in, the game is over.
If you and your Jace live long enough to do that, sure?
If you are untapping with a JTMS, two Brainstorm activations, and a shuffle, you are almost definitionally living "long enough to do that." When Ux gets the JTMS and Teferi going for multiple turns, it tends to win. This is both because JTMS/Teferi help them win and because their survival is an indicator that the game is stabilized in Ux's favor. If you slam JTMS on T4 into a dangerous battlefield or game state, then yeah, you're probably going to lose. But that has nothing to do with the power of JTMS' abilities in different situations.
I say this because if the game goes long enough for you to safely resolve a Jace, and have it live to an untap, you're already in a winning position. Getting to that position is often a difficult uphill battle in a format that is often decisively ended by turn 4 or 5.. I can't tell you how many times I have stared at a Jace in my hand, knowing full well that tapping out/low for him is an awful decision, and wishing he was literally any other card (and usually a Cryptic Command). Maybe Force of Negation changes this, but for as many times as I have drawn and cast a Jace, he is nowhere near as game-breaking as people make him out to be. And if he is, you're in such a commanding position already that he is just your assurance.
There is more than one control color. Not everything is UW and not all decks have access to Teferi as well. And frankly, it's kind of frustrating how UW gets literal everything control, while UR and UB get mostly wonky or overcosted limited/Standard fodder.
There is more than one control color. Not everything is UW and not all decks have access to Teferi as well. And frankly, it's kind of frustrating how UW gets literal everything control, while UR and UB get mostly wonky or overcosted limited/Standard fodder.
There really isnt.
You are playing UW or Esper if you want to make your life harder.
Thats fine, but if you want to play Tier 1 Control, you are playing UW.
There is more than one control color. Not everything is UW and not all decks have access to Teferi as well. And frankly, it's kind of frustrating how UW gets literal everything control, while UR and UB get mostly wonky or overcosted limited/Standard fodder.
There really isnt.
You are playing UW or Esper if you want to make your life harder.
Thats fine, but if you want to play Tier 1 Control, you are playing UW.
(Insert "stifling diversity of reactive blue decks" comment here).
Sad that this is what they consider "better" and "healthy."
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Going just a little deeper outside of the the obvious though. You lack other OP cards like FOW, Daze, True Name Nemesis, and Brainstorm. You also lack threats like Delver of Secrets that benefit from manipulating your deck. Wasteland and Stifle can also help limit your opponents ability to build a board and pressure your Planeswalkers. Back to Basics is a different way to pressure your opponents Mana base in legacy. The threats you face attack from different angles also because said threats don't have to deal with all the stuff mentioned above that to compete! Short answer really is Modern is just a different format period. At least for now anyway.
Looking at mtggoldfish metagame analysis, looking at the top 16 decks, JTMS is played in 10% of the metagame in legacy and 16% in modern. If by better, you mean sees more play, then it's definitely modern.
And in that case, I would definitely say that JTMS isn't better in Modern, it just a little more frequent. In Legacy, there are just so many ways to use him to you advantage vs. Modern since there is a larger card pool (obviously). Brainstorm is the best ability on JTMS by far in Legacy and the others are rarely used in comparison.
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If this is a sneeky breeky way to make people more aware that Force of Negation is a damn good card then I agree
In legacy we also have Sultai decks that feature him, and also UWx stoneblade that has the potential to run him, strategies which are under-represented in modern for reasons unrelated to JtMS.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
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On top of that as Ym1r states fewer shells that are viable at the top in Modern for him.
I'm not even playing him in Turns right now, and I don't miss it.
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He is better now though in UWx shell you can play Small Teferi the turn before then Jace and then hold up Pact of Negation before sticking Big Teferi and having counter magic up from here on out.
Hahaha, bingo, pro points for you!
Yeah, I agree it's pretty much what everyone has said, less creatures, maybe less burn, and fow. How much weight each of those things represents in the scale is hard to know, but I think fow is the main one.
Fateseal is just OK
Bounce a creature is sometimes really awful (etbs)
Brainstorm ain't the powerhouse it is in Legacy
Lack of free protection makes it hard to slam it on 4 (even new Force doesn't stop counters or removal on your turn)
Lack of actual Brainstorm and good top of deck manipulation makes Miracles a variance lottery.
I still jam him in my blue decks, but he often feels like the worst card I can cast most of the time, and is really only there as a win condition for grindy games because most win conditions are even worse.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I'm sorry but +2 is pretty broken, as is +0 brainstorm, doesn't matter the format as long as it has fetches.
There can be several reasons why JTMS doesn't shine in modern but the brokenness of his abilities can't be one.
I *strongly* disagree, especially on the last point. If you get two Brainstorms and a shuffle in, the game is over.
If you and your Jace live long enough to do that, sure?
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
If you are untapping with a JTMS, two Brainstorm activations, and a shuffle, you are almost definitionally living "long enough to do that." When Ux gets the JTMS and Teferi going for multiple turns, it tends to win. This is both because JTMS/Teferi help them win and because their survival is an indicator that the game is stabilized in Ux's favor. If you slam JTMS on T4 into a dangerous battlefield or game state, then yeah, you're probably going to lose. But that has nothing to do with the power of JTMS' abilities in different situations.
There is more than one control color. Not everything is UW and not all decks have access to Teferi as well. And frankly, it's kind of frustrating how UW gets literal everything control, while UR and UB get mostly wonky or overcosted limited/Standard fodder.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
There really isnt.
You are playing UW or Esper if you want to make your life harder.
Thats fine, but if you want to play Tier 1 Control, you are playing UW.
Spirits
(Insert "stifling diversity of reactive blue decks" comment here).
Sad that this is what they consider "better" and "healthy."
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Looking at mtggoldfish metagame analysis, looking at the top 16 decks, JTMS is played in 10% of the metagame in legacy and 16% in modern. If by better, you mean sees more play, then it's definitely modern.