As long as Looting powers up different types of deck (as hogaak/dredge and phoenix are), Wizzie won't ban it.
There won't be any emergency ban. It would crash the already small confidence some people have in Wizards. At end of August probably Hogaak summer will end and a new meta will come. Then Eldraine come and we will reset the meta again. Stagnant is not what modern has been recently!
DRS was played in Jund, Pod, dredge, elves, etc. and it got the ban.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
DRS didnt power those deck though it just made them significantly better. The decks running faithless im not so sure can survive without the card or something similar to it.
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Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
so I am hoping nothing gets banned, but that's unlikely. I do hope Wizards at least unbans SFM at the same time. we've had bannings in 2 different announcements since the last unban, they need to GIVE something with these annoncements instead of just taking our money and decks away.
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
so I am hoping nothing gets banned, but that's unlikely. I do hope Wizards at least unbans SFM at the same time. we've had bannings in 2 different announcements since the last unban, they need to GIVE something with these annoncements instead of just taking our money and decks away.
Yes hopefully there are more unbannings rather than bannings but that seems unlikely
so I am hoping nothing gets banned, but that's unlikely. I do hope Wizards at least unbans SFM at the same time. we've had bannings in 2 different announcements since the last unban, they need to GIVE something with these annoncements instead of just taking our money and decks away.
Yes hopefully there are more unbannings rather than bannings but that seems unlikely
If you were to go the unban route, we could probably say that should Hogaak remain, Splinter Twin, Birthing Pod, Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, Eye of Ugin, Skullclamp, Stoneforge Mystic, Umezawa's Jitte, and Summer Bloom could all come off, and we still wouldn't end up with a new top tier deck.
so I am hoping nothing gets banned, but that's unlikely. I do hope Wizards at least unbans SFM at the same time. we've had bannings in 2 different announcements since the last unban, they need to GIVE something with these annoncements instead of just taking our money and decks away.
Yes hopefully there are more unbannings rather than bannings but that seems unlikely
If you were to go the unban route, we could probably say that should Hogaak remain, Splinter Twin, Birthing Pod, Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, Eye of Ugin, Skullclamp, Stoneforge Mystic, Umezawa's Jitte, and Summer Bloom could all come off, and we still wouldn't end up with a new top tier deck.
oh, I strongly disagree. I think Pod and TC would be at a similar level, a little stronger than the rest of Modern, but not head and shoulders, can easily be fought, like a Tier 0.66 or something. most of the rest would be Tier 1-2, but Bloom is too fast without better answers, ans Skullclamp/Jitte both make almost everything else irrelevant, they are way too strong even for me and should never come off.
Also Eye could only be a swap for Temple, that deck was too brutal
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
I still don't know why they printed Hoggaak. That was a bad idea from the start since it is a graveyard creature that can be free cast in a format where people can dump an enormous amount of resources into the graveyard for nearly nothing. Did they seriously think reprinting Leyline of the Void would fix anything? Leyline was in the format for ages and we still had dredge and phoenix in the format, regardless. Of course, it doesn't help that Hogaak decks can run Force of Vigor and destroy the leyline for free, basically.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Wizards of the Coast never unbans a card to fix a meta. They almost always ban cards when a deck is taking up too much of the field, and the situation with Hogaak is pretty much a 100% death knell for the card. The mistake was banning Bridge from Below instead of Hogaak himself in order to keep modern horizons sales going.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The thing that has me a bit worried with the ban and restricted list is that they almost never unban a card. Bridge from below will likely not come off the list, and if they add Hedron Crab to "weaken hogaak" decks I know a few people that will be rather ticked.
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():
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The thing that has me a bit worried with the ban and restricted list is that they almost never unban a card. Bridge from below will likely not come off the list, and if they add Hedron Crab to "weaken hogaak" decks I know a few people that will be rather ticked.
Mill is a fairly popular archetype, so Hedron Crab seems like an unlikely option. It doesn't quite have Faithless Looting's "too big to fail" status, but it sees play in more other decks than Hogaak's other enablers.
Permeating Mass in my spirits deck works wonders at stopping people from doing non-interactive things. Comboing that with Reality Shift and I think someone who expects to just face roll will probably want to scream into space using a hogaak deck. Once that mass starts doing it's thing, it just doesn't stop. Best part is that since they released SoulHerder, I can actually undo the damage on my field if I really need to.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
For people arguing for the faithless looting ban, I just want to point out something:
Jund, ETron, UW control have gotten a lot of new tools recently. Good graveyard strategies put a reasonable sideboard tax on these fair decks. Two years ago, fair decks were really struggling as their sideboard slots were heavily taxed and they were not able to cover the majority of the field. Currently, I would argue these fair decks have gotten alot stronger and banning looting will significantly benefit these fair decks and allow them to cover the entire field without conceding too many matchups.
I think a Hogaak ban is the reasonable approach to the format but I don';t think its reasonable to go that far with weakening phoneix/.dredge
I know everyone wants to see Stoneforge Mystic unbanned, but what about Green Sun's Zenith? I'm curious to hear your arguments for and against unbanning it.
Hallelujah!!!! Long overdue unban on SFM but I will absolutely take it. Had my swords and SFMs just sitting there waiting. Sad to see looting go, but I do think it is a bit too good at what it does so I can't say I am completely surprised.
You believe that? I think its the start of decay of modern. Modern is the most succesfull format of magic because his diversity, and that diversity was created in a great way thanks to Faithless Looting. I Dont know whats pretend blizzard with this move, create a legacy clone format? The diversity of midrange decks Will decrease, and the gy strategies will goes very underpowered.
If diversity exists because of one card, is that really diversity? We know that they actually consider older formats when printing cards now so I would expect another option sooner than later. It was arguably better than ancestral recall in some decks and if you can even begin to make that comparison then it is a problem.
You believe that? I think its the start of decay of modern. Modern is the most succesfull format of magic because his diversity, and that diversity was created in a great way thanks to Faithless Looting. I Dont know whats pretend blizzard with this move, create a legacy clone format? The diversity of midrange decks Will decrease, and the gy strategies will goes very underpowered.
I personally do believe that modern gets better, but that is just an opinion and isn't based on any testing. I will admit I don't have full knowledge of what SFM will do to the format in terms of diversity so I am glad they explained that we have a "testing period" for SFM to see if it can remain. I think GY based decks were becoming a little too ubiquitous. With so many decks utilizing looting it was getting to a point where you had to run 6 copies of GY hate in your maindeck/sideboard.
I personally didn't think faithless looting needed to be banned right at this point, but I understand what they are saying in terms of future design of graveyard based cards. I think with the printing of Sticker Supplier and still having Cathartic Reunion,Burning Inquiry, and that artifact that mills for 1 (I can't remember of the top of my head) that pure graveyard strategies could still be relevant especially given the decrease in GY hate after the announcement. Also UR Phoenix can still run Izzet Charm and can still exist in a form. I don't think it's the end of GY based decks, but it is definitely going to take a while for the GY based decks to get back. I do hate when anyone loses their deck due to ban.
I too am a little worried about homogenization with SFM decks so that remains to be seen. I was a big supporter of the Jace unban, but I honestly didn't think SFM would be unbanned. I definitely support the unban because I didn't think the card was overpowered. My only concern was diversity as you pointed out.
I am mainly excited just to see modern get back to the battlefield a little bit more. I hope that it makes modern a bit more skill intensive. It's an exciting time. Whether it's correct or not remains to be seen.
DRS was played in Jund, Pod, dredge, elves, etc. and it got the ban.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
Yes hopefully there are more unbannings rather than bannings but that seems unlikely
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881
Oooh Dicey:
[dice=1]100[/dice]
If you were to go the unban route, we could probably say that should Hogaak remain, Splinter Twin, Birthing Pod, Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, Eye of Ugin, Skullclamp, Stoneforge Mystic, Umezawa's Jitte, and Summer Bloom could all come off, and we still wouldn't end up with a new top tier deck.
oh, I strongly disagree. I think Pod and TC would be at a similar level, a little stronger than the rest of Modern, but not head and shoulders, can easily be fought, like a Tier 0.66 or something. most of the rest would be Tier 1-2, but Bloom is too fast without better answers, ans Skullclamp/Jitte both make almost everything else irrelevant, they are way too strong even for me and should never come off.
Also Eye could only be a swap for Temple, that deck was too brutal
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Not only that, but we’ve never seen a meta with Fatal Push and Twin.
But I expect they’ll go the ban route instead.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Mill is a fairly popular archetype, so Hedron Crab seems like an unlikely option. It doesn't quite have Faithless Looting's "too big to fail" status, but it sees play in more other decks than Hogaak's other enablers.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Jund, ETron, UW control have gotten a lot of new tools recently. Good graveyard strategies put a reasonable sideboard tax on these fair decks. Two years ago, fair decks were really struggling as their sideboard slots were heavily taxed and they were not able to cover the majority of the field. Currently, I would argue these fair decks have gotten alot stronger and banning looting will significantly benefit these fair decks and allow them to cover the entire field without conceding too many matchups.
I think a Hogaak ban is the reasonable approach to the format but I don';t think its reasonable to go that far with weakening phoneix/.dredge
SFM is also sold out on SCG
You believe that? I think its the start of decay of modern. Modern is the most succesfull format of magic because his diversity, and that diversity was created in a great way thanks to Faithless Looting. I Dont know whats pretend blizzard with this move, create a legacy clone format? The diversity of midrange decks Will decrease, and the gy strategies will goes very underpowered.
I personally do believe that modern gets better, but that is just an opinion and isn't based on any testing. I will admit I don't have full knowledge of what SFM will do to the format in terms of diversity so I am glad they explained that we have a "testing period" for SFM to see if it can remain. I think GY based decks were becoming a little too ubiquitous. With so many decks utilizing looting it was getting to a point where you had to run 6 copies of GY hate in your maindeck/sideboard.
I personally didn't think faithless looting needed to be banned right at this point, but I understand what they are saying in terms of future design of graveyard based cards. I think with the printing of Sticker Supplier and still having Cathartic Reunion,Burning Inquiry, and that artifact that mills for 1 (I can't remember of the top of my head) that pure graveyard strategies could still be relevant especially given the decrease in GY hate after the announcement. Also UR Phoenix can still run Izzet Charm and can still exist in a form. I don't think it's the end of GY based decks, but it is definitely going to take a while for the GY based decks to get back. I do hate when anyone loses their deck due to ban.
I too am a little worried about homogenization with SFM decks so that remains to be seen. I was a big supporter of the Jace unban, but I honestly didn't think SFM would be unbanned. I definitely support the unban because I didn't think the card was overpowered. My only concern was diversity as you pointed out.
I am mainly excited just to see modern get back to the battlefield a little bit more. I hope that it makes modern a bit more skill intensive. It's an exciting time. Whether it's correct or not remains to be seen.
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