Actually, I disagree. Cavern is absolutely necessary in the current meta. Geist of Saint Traft is something you need off the table as soon as you can. Gatekeeper is your safest out, but he's often and easily spell snared. Liliana being Spell Pierced.
I'm not sure how Cavern is suppose to dilute a turn 3 Gatekeeper, since 3 black isn't a huge problem given Cavern provides the black necessary to make Gatekeeper uncouterable. From my testing, you'll encounter games where you'll have 2 caverns and a Blood Crypt in play, but no practical means of casting Liliana or Terminate. Those are the main issues with a mana base containing 3+ copies of Caverns. If it becomes a recurring issue, then Go for the Throat/Dismember becomes to go to removal for the deck. Liliana has always been a "Plan B" for Vampires. She doesn't provide the same impact as she does for Jund/BR Zombies.
Cavern does not interfere with Highborn, Bloodghast, Gatekeeper, Fulminator Mage (often makes him uncounterable). A high number of Caverns will affect Liliana, Terminate, Shattering Spree and Volcanic Fallout from playtesting.
There are a few match ups where it feels absolutely necessary.
Delver/Landfall - It operates solely as a tempo deck, but they have ridiculous consistency when it comes to removal and high impact threats. They also use Geist.
Cawblade/UW Control Variants/Scepter - Again, Geist paired up with Elspeth is a pain. You need a way to get rid of it without getting countered. It's even a worst match up if they land Remand on a Scepter.
Tron - While a lot of builds are really thin on interaction, they still pack some countermagic against land destruction. Popular ones such as Rain of Tears, Molten Rain and Blood Moon are often countered. Cavern allows you to bypass that and if you're able to break through, surgical extraction their key lands. The match up becomes almost once sided once they're playing "fair". Tron player's only out at that time is Pithing Needle in the SB, but Shattering Spree handles that just fine.
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I totally brainfarted, thinking Cavern produced colorless mana.
Sorry, you're right.
I think the only reason Geist wrecks you so bad is because of Dark Confident though. Add that to fetchland and lacerator pings, and it's true you cannot afford the hit for 4. Lacerator, Gatekeeper, and Highborn and potentially Noble are all bears that take him down, and Highborn's ability allows a 4 life swing thereby absorbing that Angel hit.
Personally, I have done notably better without Confidant pinging me, (using Seers and Magma Jets to filter instead), and playing more hand disruption, (Blightning MB, Duress SB). Hand disruption makes Liliana less necessary too, allowing more threats like Aristocrat and even Captain to bring more pressure to the battlefield.
It's hard to pass up a threat like Dark Confidant since he'll make the deck so much more effective with such a low curve. There's a reason why he's practically a staple in Jund decks, and those have a much higher mana curve than Zombies/Vampires. Then there's the original inclusion of Dark Tutelage in the Vampires list not long ago that made the deck type possible in competitive Standard.
I've ran Vampires with Jets in the past. It does a great job, but against Tier 1 aggro decks where I'm staring down at Delver/Snapcaster/Clique, I really want those threats off the board since you can't race them at that point. Magma Jet might give me options to handle those creatures on my next turn, but I'm looking at 5-8 power on their turn.
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I'm with polish on this one. Yes, as a zoo player I bolt the hell out of dark confident. But thats because I know how ridiculous that card really is. Left alone, I'm pretty confident (heh, pun) you'll out gun, out dude, and out threat me pretty easily since your drawing so much more.
And your looking at the wrong part of cavern. Playing shamans for a while, Ive realized that cavern is good be, and most of the time id doesnt deal with counters, its for the mana fixing. Turn 1 noble is a pretty good reason.
Also it helps gatekeeper. Turn 3 looking like you got a B, R/B and Cavern? good. Turn 3 you got a B R B land? not so good. Turn 3 you got a R Cavern and Filter land? Your in great shape.
What are people's feelings in regards to Dark Tutelage instead of Dark Confidant? I cost one mana more but I prefer the likelihood of it sticking around more consistently because it is an enchantment than dying to removal.
Or the instant gratification of something Sign in Blood?
Dark Tutelage is far worse than Phyrexian Arena. Arena makes you lose only 1 life per turn, and Tutelage usually makes you lose more hp, because you got many 2 drops in the deck.
Both start giving CA from 5th turn (on 4th turn they replace themselves in your hand), and they can't block.
Anyway, I see Sign in Blood better than these two. It can give CA to us, or Shock the opponent for the 2 last damage.
I disagree. I run 3 Dark Tutelage in my R/B Vamp deck. DT is easier to play, and you also take 0 from lands and 1 from Bolts/Seers/Lacerators/Inquisitions. I find on avg you take less or ~the same as Arena, but find it easier to cast. Also can leave open a B for a Highborn ability.
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Looks like upgraded list that CCO used a few times on the dailies. A lot of the traditional vampires have been dropped in favor of Looting/Zombie/Ghasts interactions. Looks pretty clean, though I'm not a huge fan of Blood Moon.
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Well that's a pretty straightforward MB. Talk about keeping it simple. Interesting SB and nice twist with the Catacombs, Tomb + Grudge.
I can almost see Naturalize or Maelstrom Pulse finding a slot in the the SB here.
Or maybe even x4 Marsh Flats into x1 Godless Shrine for an Oblivion Ring.
I'm inspired to try some 3 color splash variations. Don't play much Modern. Are there any relevant enchantments in the format that might warrant splashing for better removal?
The Core
Classic b/r uses a Bloodghast + Kalastria Highborn engine fueled by fetchlands for recursion. As of late, there has been a growing trend to incorporate Blood Artist and even some zombies.
Beats and Burns
The deck leans heavily on tempo beats, (see Vampire Lacerator), followed by a burn suite to finish and remove, (see Lightning Bolt).
Other Tech
Another common aspect is a sac engine from Viscera Seer, used to scry into the deck for land drops, threats, or answers. Also used to fuel the Highborn/Bloodghast engine. I've also had success with Falkenrath Aristocrat as a finisher. Vampire Nocturnus is generally not recommended outside of mono-black.
Sideboarding
The meta of Modern is pretty specific, although varies over time and in different regions. There are many popular sideboard cards that you can find in decklists on this thread, but ultimately you'll have to do some research to find what works best for you.
Pillar of Flame could probably be Nihil Spellbomb or Grafdigger's Cage to deal with recursion, but I like the option of burning to the face. Zombies and Strangleroot Geist are cropping up too.
Smash to Smitheens is defense against against artifacts. Shattering Spree is another popular spell against Pod, Affinity, and Jund swords. I like the bonus of direct damage with Smithereens though.
Duress is key against U/B and U/W control matchups. Damnation and Wrath of God hurt. Also decent against Splinter Twins to stop Pyroclasms and Slagstorms. Can disrupt Storm as well.
Arc Trail is good against aggro decks like zoo, goblins, faeries. It's even decent against ramping dorks like those found in Bant.
Sign in Blood is good to keep fueled against long grinding control matchups. It also doubles as a finisher if you make opponent draw.
ive been testing this for just messing around with friends, not taking it to any tournaments or anything.
feel free to dissect, gut, and critique!
would love opinions!
so far im happy with it, but bloodline keeper is the least consistent for me. had games where it was the reason for winning, and games where it didnt help a whole lot, didnt hurt me either though... if it is at 5/5 and nocturnus are out together, its pretty much gg at that point 9 times out of 10.
ive been testing this for just messing around with friends, not taking it to any tournaments or anything.
feel free to dissect, gut, and critique!
would love opinions!
so far im happy with it, but bloodline keeper is the least consistent for me. had games where it was the reason for winning, and games where it didnt help a whole lot, didnt hurt me either though... if it is at 5/5 and nocturnus are out together, its pretty much gg at that point 9 times out of 10.
Splashing red just for Blightning and Stromkirk isn't worth it. If you want hand disruption, run Inquisition of Kozilek main + Duress sideboard. Nocturnus is your tribal lord, and he is mono black.
Sign in Blood is better with a larger control suite where you are forcing longer games. This build is aggro, so I'd cut it down to 2.
This is a Nocturnus deck. He is your finisher. Thus, you can cut Bloodline Keeper completely. He's more of a mid-range dude.
Your removal suite is pretty conditional. While Disfigure, Feast of Blood, and Urge to Feed are flavorful in a vamp deck, they aren't very good. Dismember, Go for the Throat and Doom Blade are much better options. I think some of those Gatekeepers should be mainboard too.
Bloodghast and Nocturnus rely on crack lands to be optimal. Fetch lands like Bloodstained Mire are expensive and only worth the investment if you plan on going two color and playing some serious magic. 3 or 4 Terramorphic Expanse or Evolving Wilds will suite your needs. There's a slight loss of tempo with the "into play tapped" ruling, but you can probably afford it. These lands provide land drops for Bloodghast recursion and a shuffle to activate Nocturnus if your top card is a land. Remember, lands are colorless.
Speaking of Bloodghast recursion, Viscera Seer is an excellent sac outlet, a way to scry for Nocturnus to activate, and also fuels the Highborn engine.
The new liliana is great for fetching Blood Crypt, but again you are getting into two color and that gets expensive. She's also more for a control build that buys time to win in one giant shot.
I think a basic shell for mono-black vamps looks a little something like this.
I put a spread of good mono black good stuff in this list just to give you an idea of what's out there..
i have sac lands and such in there, im good on land i was thinking about adding Falkenrath Aristocrat instead of bloodline keeper
i was looking to go more towards BR vamps, but with nocturnus so no mono red. i have the land and what not to try out both.
keep in mind that things like hexmage and gatekeeper arent in the primary list because its for just playing with friends, and i will sub them in depending on what im playing against, thus far i have enough removal for what i face mostly and nearly none of my friends can afford planeswalkers, so in my "mess around with friends" decks i leave them out just to be a little more fair. they are in my tournament decks though
i completely agree with seer being awesome with bloodghast and nocturnus, i may want to rethink that over lacerator.
i see you dropped to 2 nighthawks, u know when i first saw that card i though ohhh thats awesome, after application, i only keep him around because of stromkirk captain for first strike to block anything unless there is nothing to block then i attack with him... like he is good, but hasnt felt godly hence why i have been just doing 3. he is better against some decks more then others, thats for sure.
whats your thoughts on sangromancer?
thank you for taking the time for such a thorough post . i would love to see what other people have to say as well
I tried to keep my decklist able to run and feed highborn as much as possible. I find having to tap out for 3cmc creatures causes us to lose highborn opportunites.
~Guul draz vampire for reach
~3 seer, I want to have them most of the time, saccing removal targets and getting to scry is good, and keeps my draws more consistent
~2 of hexmage for pw's if game goes long, and good for block, saccing to lifegain creatures, i.e wurmcoil engine
~lightning bolt/Burst Lighting double as reach/removal
~only 2 nighthawks, so I dont tap out too much, I want to use my mana for highborn triggers and get as much mileage out of my vamps as possible
~rain of gore for lifegain
~verdicts for hexproof, emrakuls maybe
~split on shatter spree and smash to smithereens to cover more bases, but I expect to see more affinity so maybe up to 4 shatter spree
~hexmages, gatekeeper and nighthawk in the side, just in case I am playing a matchup where any one of these 3 shine, I can side more in
Should Phyrexian Arena be Dark Tutelage? 28/60 cards will cause me to lose 1 or 0 life, and I only have 8 3cmc cards.
Aether Vial? Has anyone tried to play vamps like a fish deck? It would help keep mana open for highborn shenanigans
Too few removal spells?
Comments Appreciated.
PS> I am working on getting the Blood Crypts which will replace blackcleave cliffs
You should be using Stromkirk Nobles instead of Guul Draz Assassin. He's much more efficient since you don't need to dump 4 more mana to start making him relevant. Blade of the Bloodchief is also a little too slow for my tastes(and slows you down considerably).
I'd just run Terminate over Urge to Feed,and you might want to fit bob in there somewhere if you want card advantage. You can use child of night/vampire nighthawk to mitigate the life loss given by bob.
You might want 22 lands to get to 4 mana reliably.
Blightning seems to be there for the sake of being there. It doesn't really work well with the deck. (Granted,it's powerful,but what does it do to further your plans?)
Blood Artist can be another option you can use in case of board wipes or just for the long run.
The only thing I can say about Nocturnus, is that I'd be weary about running him in a B/R deck. The above build runs Stromkirk and Blightning which is ok, but Nocturnus effectively eliminates the option of playing Lightning Bolt, which imo is the best reason to splash red! Cheap burn spells lend themselves to an up-tempo attack, and make creatures like Vampire Lacerator and Bloodghast a workhorse by efficiently removing blockers.
Red is also strong in the sideboard, allowing artifact hate to come in game 2. I suppose Nocturnus can sub out for those spells though.
I'm just not a fan of Nocturnus in this format period. Instant speed creature removal completely wrecks the tribal alpha strike. He also needs to be supported by a full spread of fetchlands to get the shuffle when a land or non-black spell is revealed top deck. This I don't mind though because 5-7 fetchlands is great for Bloodghast recursion anyways, effectively fueling a Highborn engine.
I dunno. In B/R I much prefer Falkenrath Aristocrat as my finisher. In many instances even she isn't needed. Just a good mix of burn, beats, and Highborn/Blood Artist triggers is sufficient.
So, I plan on running RB Vampires for GP Toronto in December. So far my list resembles on posted a ways back, but I took out the Overgrown Tomb for Ancient Grudge in the side and substituted Rakdos charm, given that it has more versatility against graveyard/combo decks. It also crushes Kiki-Combo or Splinter Twin, however rare they are. It's basically a RB burn. Honestly, it's a bit like a bad but more focussed Jund. Just my opinion. Here's the list.
The maindeck is all about getting in damage while establishing a boad with Highborn. Viscera Seer enable Brimstone Volley. The deck is all about being able to swing in with creatures and react to removal/blocking with sacrificing or just gaining 2 life/dealing 2 with Highborn. The sideboard is more geard toward dealing with Tron, Goyfs, and UW decks. Any suggestions would be super helpful.
So, I plan on running RB Vampires for GP Toronto in December. So far my list resembles on posted a ways back, but I took out the Overgrown Tomb for Ancient Grudge in the side and substituted Rakdos charm, given that it has more versatility against graveyard/combo decks. It also crushes Kiki-Combo or Splinter Twin, however rare they are. It's basically a RB burn. Honestly, it's a bit like a bad but more focussed Jund. Just my opinion. Here's the list.
The maindeck is all about getting in damage while establishing a boad with Highborn. Viscera Seer enable Brimstone Volley. The deck is all about being able to swing in with creatures and react to removal/blocking with sacrificing or just gaining 2 life/dealing 2 with Highborn. The sideboard is more geard toward dealing with Tron, Goyfs, and UW decks. Any suggestions would be super helpful.
I'm not sure how Cavern is suppose to dilute a turn 3 Gatekeeper, since 3 black isn't a huge problem given Cavern provides the black necessary to make Gatekeeper uncouterable. From my testing, you'll encounter games where you'll have 2 caverns and a Blood Crypt in play, but no practical means of casting Liliana or Terminate. Those are the main issues with a mana base containing 3+ copies of Caverns. If it becomes a recurring issue, then Go for the Throat/Dismember becomes to go to removal for the deck. Liliana has always been a "Plan B" for Vampires. She doesn't provide the same impact as she does for Jund/BR Zombies.
Cavern does not interfere with Highborn, Bloodghast, Gatekeeper, Fulminator Mage (often makes him uncounterable). A high number of Caverns will affect Liliana, Terminate, Shattering Spree and Volcanic Fallout from playtesting.
There are a few match ups where it feels absolutely necessary.
Delver/Landfall - It operates solely as a tempo deck, but they have ridiculous consistency when it comes to removal and high impact threats. They also use Geist.
Cawblade/UW Control Variants/Scepter - Again, Geist paired up with Elspeth is a pain. You need a way to get rid of it without getting countered. It's even a worst match up if they land Remand on a Scepter.
Tron - While a lot of builds are really thin on interaction, they still pack some countermagic against land destruction. Popular ones such as Rain of Tears, Molten Rain and Blood Moon are often countered. Cavern allows you to bypass that and if you're able to break through, surgical extraction their key lands. The match up becomes almost once sided once they're playing "fair". Tron player's only out at that time is Pithing Needle in the SB, but Shattering Spree handles that just fine.
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Sorry, you're right.
I think the only reason Geist wrecks you so bad is because of Dark Confident though. Add that to fetchland and lacerator pings, and it's true you cannot afford the hit for 4. Lacerator, Gatekeeper, and Highborn and potentially Noble are all bears that take him down, and Highborn's ability allows a 4 life swing thereby absorbing that Angel hit.
Personally, I have done notably better without Confidant pinging me, (using Seers and Magma Jets to filter instead), and playing more hand disruption, (Blightning MB, Duress SB). Hand disruption makes Liliana less necessary too, allowing more threats like Aristocrat and even Captain to bring more pressure to the battlefield.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
I've ran Vampires with Jets in the past. It does a great job, but against Tier 1 aggro decks where I'm staring down at Delver/Snapcaster/Clique, I really want those threats off the board since you can't race them at that point. Magma Jet might give me options to handle those creatures on my next turn, but I'm looking at 5-8 power on their turn.
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And your looking at the wrong part of cavern. Playing shamans for a while, Ive realized that cavern is good be, and most of the time id doesnt deal with counters, its for the mana fixing. Turn 1 noble is a pretty good reason.
Also it helps gatekeeper. Turn 3 looking like you got a B, R/B and Cavern? good. Turn 3 you got a B R B land? not so good. Turn 3 you got a R Cavern and Filter land? Your in great shape.
Or the instant gratification of something Sign in Blood?
I disagree. I run 3 Dark Tutelage in my R/B Vamp deck. DT is easier to play, and you also take 0 from lands and 1 from Bolts/Seers/Lacerators/Inquisitions. I find on avg you take less or ~the same as Arena, but find it easier to cast. Also can leave open a B for a Highborn ability.
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
grapplingfarang (3-1)
Modern Daily #3945933 on 06/07/2012
2 Arid Mesa
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Blood Crypt
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
5 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures
4 Blood Artist
4 Bloodghast
4 Dark Confidant
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Gravecrawler
2 Liliana of the Veil
Spells
2 Blasting Station
3 Faithless Looting
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
2 Thoughtseize
3 Blood Moon
1 Killing Wave
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Rain of Gore
2 Shattering Spree
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Torpor Orb
Looks like upgraded list that CCO used a few times on the dailies. A lot of the traditional vampires have been dropped in favor of Looting/Zombie/Ghasts interactions. Looks pretty clean, though I'm not a huge fan of Blood Moon.
Though, it does borderline a Zombies build...
You can catch some of my work at TOKYOPOP & on the Playboy Channel! Don't miss Celebrity Sex Tales!
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Modern Daily #4002894 on 06/21/2012
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Overgrown Tomb
5 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures
4 Blood Artist
4 Bloodghast
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Kalastria Highborn
4 Stromkirk Captain
4 Vampire Lacerator
4 Viscera Seer
3 Brimstone Volley
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Pillar of Flame
2 Searing Blaze
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Duress
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Stone Rain
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Torpor Orb
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Well that's a pretty straightforward MB. Talk about keeping it simple. Interesting SB and nice twist with the Catacombs, Tomb + Grudge.
I can almost see Naturalize or Maelstrom Pulse finding a slot in the the SB here.
Or maybe even x4 Marsh Flats into x1 Godless Shrine for an Oblivion Ring.
I'm inspired to try some 3 color splash variations. Don't play much Modern. Are there any relevant enchantments in the format that might warrant splashing for better removal?
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Classic b/r uses a Bloodghast + Kalastria Highborn engine fueled by fetchlands for recursion. As of late, there has been a growing trend to incorporate Blood Artist and even some zombies.
Beats and Burns
The deck leans heavily on tempo beats, (see Vampire Lacerator), followed by a burn suite to finish and remove, (see Lightning Bolt).
Removal
Instant speed spot removal such as Go for the Throat or Terminate is usually incorporated. Gatekeeper of Malakir is another very popular inclusion.
Disruption
Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, Duress, and Blightning are all popular methods to disrupt your opponent's hand.
Draw
Dark Confidant is the most popular method to draw. Sign in Blood, or just scry/burning with Magma Jet are viable options too.
Other Tech
Another common aspect is a sac engine from Viscera Seer, used to scry into the deck for land drops, threats, or answers. Also used to fuel the Highborn/Bloodghast engine. I've also had success with Falkenrath Aristocrat as a finisher. Vampire Nocturnus is generally not recommended outside of mono-black.
Sideboarding
The meta of Modern is pretty specific, although varies over time and in different regions. There are many popular sideboard cards that you can find in decklists on this thread, but ultimately you'll have to do some research to find what works best for you.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
3 Viscera Seer
4 Vampire Lacerator
4 Bloodghast
3 Kalastria Highborn
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Stromkirk Captain
3 Falkenrath Aristocrat
Instant (10)
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Magma Jet
2 Terminate
2 Go for the Throat
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Brimstone Volley
Land (22)
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
3 Dragonskull Summit
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Graven Cairns
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
5 Swamp
4 Pillar of Flame
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Duress
3 Arc Trail
2 Sign In Blood
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Smash to Smitheens is defense against against artifacts. Shattering Spree is another popular spell against Pod, Affinity, and Jund swords. I like the bonus of direct damage with Smithereens though.
Duress is key against U/B and U/W control matchups. Damnation and Wrath of God hurt. Also decent against Splinter Twins to stop Pyroclasms and Slagstorms. Can disrupt Storm as well.
Arc Trail is good against aggro decks like zoo, goblins, faeries. It's even decent against ramping dorks like those found in Bant.
Sign in Blood is good to keep fueled against long grinding control matchups. It also doubles as a finisher if you make opponent draw.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
-Tom
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Kalastria Highborn
4 Bloodghast
4 Stromkirk Captain
2 Bloodline Keeper
4 Vampire Lacerator
4 Sign in Blood
3 Urge to Feed
2 Blightning
3 Disfigure
4 Mirri the Cursed
4 Blood Artist
4 Vampiric Link
1 Feast of Blood
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Bloodline Keeper // Lord of Lineage
4 Guul Draz Vampire
1 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Captivating Vampire
4 Dark Ritual
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
1 Sorin's Thirst
1 Despise
2 Blightning
4 Terminate
4 Bloodthrone Vampire
1 Kalastria Highborn
4 Duress
1 Urge to Feed
4 Viscera Seer
1 Disfigure
4 Sangromancer
ive been testing this for just messing around with friends, not taking it to any tournaments or anything.
feel free to dissect, gut, and critique!
would love opinions!
so far im happy with it, but bloodline keeper is the least consistent for me. had games where it was the reason for winning, and games where it didnt help a whole lot, didnt hurt me either though... if it is at 5/5 and nocturnus are out together, its pretty much gg at that point 9 times out of 10.
R// Thalia Zoo
G// Exalted Face Crush
R/ Vampires
Coming soon G// Zombie Smallpox
Splashing red just for Blightning and Stromkirk isn't worth it. If you want hand disruption, run Inquisition of Kozilek main + Duress sideboard. Nocturnus is your tribal lord, and he is mono black.
Sign in Blood is better with a larger control suite where you are forcing longer games. This build is aggro, so I'd cut it down to 2.
This is a Nocturnus deck. He is your finisher. Thus, you can cut Bloodline Keeper completely. He's more of a mid-range dude.
Your removal suite is pretty conditional. While Disfigure, Feast of Blood, and Urge to Feed are flavorful in a vamp deck, they aren't very good. Dismember, Go for the Throat and Doom Blade are much better options. I think some of those Gatekeepers should be mainboard too.
Bloodghast and Nocturnus rely on crack lands to be optimal. Fetch lands like Bloodstained Mire are expensive and only worth the investment if you plan on going two color and playing some serious magic. 3 or 4 Terramorphic Expanse or Evolving Wilds will suite your needs. There's a slight loss of tempo with the "into play tapped" ruling, but you can probably afford it. These lands provide land drops for Bloodghast recursion and a shuffle to activate Nocturnus if your top card is a land. Remember, lands are colorless.
Speaking of Bloodghast recursion, Viscera Seer is an excellent sac outlet, a way to scry for Nocturnus to activate, and also fuels the Highborn engine.
The new liliana is great for fetching Blood Crypt, but again you are getting into two color and that gets expensive. She's also more for a control build that buys time to win in one giant shot.
I think a basic shell for mono-black vamps looks a little something like this.
I put a spread of good mono black good stuff in this list just to give you an idea of what's out there..
3 Viscera Seer
4 Vampire Lacerator
4 Blood Artist
4 Bloodghast
3 Kalastria Highborn
3 Gatekeeper of Malikir
2 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Vampire Nocturnus
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Ashes to Ashes
1 Mind Sludge
1 Consume Spirit
1 Tendrils of Corruption
1 Sudden Spoiling
1 Corrupt
1 Extirpate
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Sign in Blood
16 Swamps
3 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Evolving Wilds
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
i was looking to go more towards BR vamps, but with nocturnus so no mono red. i have the land and what not to try out both.
keep in mind that things like hexmage and gatekeeper arent in the primary list because its for just playing with friends, and i will sub them in depending on what im playing against, thus far i have enough removal for what i face mostly and nearly none of my friends can afford planeswalkers, so in my "mess around with friends" decks i leave them out just to be a little more fair. they are in my tournament decks though
i completely agree with seer being awesome with bloodghast and nocturnus, i may want to rethink that over lacerator.
i see you dropped to 2 nighthawks, u know when i first saw that card i though ohhh thats awesome, after application, i only keep him around because of stromkirk captain for first strike to block anything unless there is nothing to block then i attack with him... like he is good, but hasnt felt godly hence why i have been just doing 3. he is better against some decks more then others, thats for sure.
whats your thoughts on sangromancer?
thank you for taking the time for such a thorough post . i would love to see what other people have to say as well
R// Thalia Zoo
G// Exalted Face Crush
R/ Vampires
Coming soon G// Zombie Smallpox
R// Thalia Zoo
G// Exalted Face Crush
R/ Vampires
Coming soon G// Zombie Smallpox
4x Vampire Lacerator
3x Viscera Seer
3x Guul Draz Vampire
CMC 2
4x Bloodghast
4x Kalastria Highborn
2x Vampire Hexmage
CMC 3
3x Gatekeeper of Malakir
2x Vampire Nighthawk
Draw
2x Phyrexian Arena
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Victim of Night
1x Terminate
2x Burst Lightning
Land
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Dragonskull Summit
2x Lavaclaw Reaches
8x Swamp
4x Marsh Flats
4x Rain of Gore
2x Vampire Hexmage
1x Gatekeeper of Malakir
1x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Geth's Verdict
2x Shatter Spree
2x Smash to Smithereens
I tried to keep my decklist able to run and feed highborn as much as possible. I find having to tap out for 3cmc creatures causes us to lose highborn opportunites.
~Guul draz vampire for reach
~3 seer, I want to have them most of the time, saccing removal targets and getting to scry is good, and keeps my draws more consistent
~2 of hexmage for pw's if game goes long, and good for block, saccing to lifegain creatures, i.e wurmcoil engine
~lightning bolt/Burst Lighting double as reach/removal
~only 2 nighthawks, so I dont tap out too much, I want to use my mana for highborn triggers and get as much mileage out of my vamps as possible
~rain of gore for lifegain
~verdicts for hexproof, emrakuls maybe
~split on shatter spree and smash to smithereens to cover more bases, but I expect to see more affinity so maybe up to 4 shatter spree
~hexmages, gatekeeper and nighthawk in the side, just in case I am playing a matchup where any one of these 3 shine, I can side more in
Should Phyrexian Arena be Dark Tutelage? 28/60 cards will cause me to lose 1 or 0 life, and I only have 8 3cmc cards.
Aether Vial? Has anyone tried to play vamps like a fish deck? It would help keep mana open for highborn shenanigans
Too few removal spells?
Comments Appreciated.
PS> I am working on getting the Blood Crypts which will replace blackcleave cliffs
I'd just run Terminate over Urge to Feed,and you might want to fit bob in there somewhere if you want card advantage. You can use child of night/vampire nighthawk to mitigate the life loss given by bob.
You might want 22 lands to get to 4 mana reliably.
Blightning seems to be there for the sake of being there. It doesn't really work well with the deck. (Granted,it's powerful,but what does it do to further your plans?)
Blood Artist can be another option you can use in case of board wipes or just for the long run.
Red is also strong in the sideboard, allowing artifact hate to come in game 2. I suppose Nocturnus can sub out for those spells though.
I'm just not a fan of Nocturnus in this format period. Instant speed creature removal completely wrecks the tribal alpha strike. He also needs to be supported by a full spread of fetchlands to get the shuffle when a land or non-black spell is revealed top deck. This I don't mind though because 5-7 fetchlands is great for Bloodghast recursion anyways, effectively fueling a Highborn engine.
I dunno. In B/R I much prefer Falkenrath Aristocrat as my finisher. In many instances even she isn't needed. Just a good mix of burn, beats, and Highborn/Blood Artist triggers is sufficient.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
3 Marsh Flats
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
3 Blood Crypt
7 Swamp
4 Bloodghast
4 Kalastria Highborn
4 Vampire Lacerator
3 Viscera Seer
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Stromkirk Noble
4 Blood Artist
3 Stromkirk Captain
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Brimstone Volley
3 Duress
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Mark of Mutiny
2 Dismember
2 Vampire Hexmage
2 Vampire Nighthawk
The maindeck is all about getting in damage while establishing a boad with Highborn. Viscera Seer enable Brimstone Volley. The deck is all about being able to swing in with creatures and react to removal/blocking with sacrificing or just gaining 2 life/dealing 2 with Highborn. The sideboard is more geard toward dealing with Tron, Goyfs, and UW decks. Any suggestions would be super helpful.
I prolly play Magma spray, insteadof pillar of flame