I'm currently brewing a ideas atm. I do like the idea of a counter sliver list, and a looking at Tom Ross's combo slivers. I just find it hard to operate with supreme verdict making an appearance in modern.
I feel like a tempo approach to Slivers is the best one. Playing dudes that pump themselves and give themselves evasion feels like Fish to me. I mean, we basically have 12 lords like they do...counting Phantasmal Image. We can afford cheap counters and disruption enough to out tempo them and finish the game off.
IMO, all these Sliver decks are bogged down by situational pumps and effects by some of the different effects that they can give. The Mana ones are best suited for a slower format like Standard and EDH, where as the faster more effective ones are/were amazing in decks like this and MeatHooks back in the day. And besides, we have Vial making free mana each turn!
I feel like this could work. I'm not too sold on Hive Stirrings because it's probably too slow, and I can't really find a 3 mana Sliver that I like here.
We're most UW, with a touch of green for Predatory and Harmonic post side.
For hive stirrings and path you only have 6 !!! white mana sources. It lacks the cantripping and solid mana base of merfolk, it's a strictly worse version of fish, I'd rather try to be more creative.
It's not a strictly worse version of Merfolk. it's Merfolk with flying, double strike, and protection from spot removal.
As you see I'm working in a counter/tempo shell. With 18 cost 2 we're able to put aether Vial at 2 and wait to counter everything they do, as Bant base we have acces to nice counters and one of the best removal spells in modern. About the 2 creatures we got in the deck that are not slivers Phantasmal Image can copy everything we need, Predatory Sliver or another diffusion sliver and Snapcaster Mage would be able to buy us some time while putting a body in the table. What this decks tries is to make pressure while we counter their keypieces until we can win the game.
This list makes me wish Quick Sliver was Modern legal!
The thing about this list, is it really hurts when you don't open on Vial.
Also, Snapcaster is kind of soft in this build.
Nice work!
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I don't care if you're a moderator but you sir have said a very, very stupid thing.
Well, the thing about snapcaster is that it gives us some card advantage and I think it generally help us with tempo. Im not even sure at all but that's the reasons for him to be in the list and probably you're right and he has to get out of my list, but what do we put in for that spot?, I have some things in mind, for example Bonescythe Sliver would help us to do an alpha strike and also make our guys good for block, Syphon Sliver could be pretty good to win races but it needs another color and i'm not really sure that would be a good idea, the first thing that was on the list was Return to the ranks wich is pretty good to get rid of Supreme Verdicts and Drown in Sorrow but then i noticed that it needed double white wich is pretty hard to have with the 3x Mutavault 2x Cavern of souls and 2x Sliver Hive. Maybe just Sidewinder Sliver I don't know, we need to playtest the deck a bit to see how it performs and then see what do we really need in that spot.
What do people think of Tom Ross's article tonight?
I read until the 4 x Blood Moon sideboard and then decided he was trolling us.
I don't think it's too unreasonable with 8 rainbow slivers and a fetch-into-basics manabase...
"Fetch into basics manabase"? He has two basics and five fetches in the entire deck. What happens if our opponent, I don't know, Lightning Bolts the Manaweft Sliver?
Fair enough... It's kind of hard to justify.
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I don't care if you're a moderator but you sir have said a very, very stupid thing.
I tried the Combo Slivers deck when Ross first posted it, but it wasn't good. It's pretty much worse than Elves in every single way: higher land count (meaning more dead draws during the combo), more colors, higher CMC (a killer in a deck which tries to chain creatures one after another), and worst of all, your Heritage Druid equivalent is split into two cards, each costing more than one mana (Gemhide/Manaweft + Blur/Firewake).
So, I've started actively brewing with slivers again with the recent printing. Not that there is anything that I think is dynamite breaking for slivers, but I would love to see slivers work in more formats than casual. I don't currently have a list, but I've got something in the works and will let you guys know what I end up with. Love the ideas that you guys have brought up! I'm wanting to go in more of a somewhat hyper-aggro slivers list because counters + sliver lords ends up just being a more fragile weak version of merfolk and there is no reason to run slivers if youre going that direction imo.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I would like to know your opinion about what I've been building. Basically it gots all colors, thanks to all thouse mana cards that give you the color you want.
I think Telekinetic Sliver + Dormant Sliver are probably key to a successful Slivers build, they offer something other decks don't.
So it's unplayable? Because if you're building around color intensive 4 drops...probably unplayable in modern. I think this deck is far too cute, but it can be a decent aggro/tempo build.
So basically I'm pretty happy with my list so far that said I do have a few observations:
1) The mana is a bit greedy, I should probably drop my Mutavaults to three, scrap the Ghost Quarters all together and have a rainbow land but I like land destruction too much and the Mutavaults seem so powerful!
2) You basically have to mulligan to Aether Vial/Cavern of Souls and Diffusion Sliver in order to keep any kind of early pressure against either control or decks like Twin who will just Remand/bolt their way to victory.
3) Combo match-ups can be really, really scary game one unless you have an Aether Vial online. You have so few lands that trying to both apply pressure AND keep up counters is very tough.
4) Perilous Research is a surprisingly good card here, they bolt/path your slivers? Just use their target to draw instead! That said you do suffer from the low land count again here...
If you are on the tempo plan I'm not sure how much I actually like Mirror Entity, it really encourages you to pile all your mana into it so holding back for counters is very hard....
If you are on the tempo plan I'm not sure how much I actually like Mirror Entity, it really encourages you to pile all your mana into it so holding back for counters is very hard....
The only counters I'm currently running are and I think that it's fairly easy to hold that back when pumping your army...? Obviously it may not be an optimal counter list, but I figured you just need to protect against what will kill or delay your play?
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
More interestingly why did you go with no Aether Vials in either list?
Sure. I've found that with Mana slivers that you are still able to power out your hand quite rapidly on a regular basis so I left them out of the rainbow list since they are a bad draw at almost any point (past turn 1-2) in the game. The reason why they didn't make the first list is because I felt with the plethora with low drops (the average CMC of the first list is 1.65) that it was better to draw gas than have a slightly better early game occasionally. The fact that it's a bad draw beyond the start of the game makes it a hesitant include. I realize that I play Merfolk and use it as an auto-include in that list, but their curve is also much higher than this list of slivers.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
The spell I am missing is your Path in the first list. It is just so good and also Vital to have a decent combo match up. I'd probably remove the void snares I do not like playing a sorcery speed bounce spell.
Originally Vapor Snag was the Path and of course they could be swapped around according to what you feel is necessary to include. Path may indeed be better than vapor snag in the list.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I've been doing some thinking about the 5 colour list and looking back through this thread saw someone attempting a wish board with Glittering Wish. This got me thinking about the toolbox sliver approach, could we be using Congregation at Dawn here? Is that just too slow or do we like the idea of rigging our top decks with gas/answers for three turns?
I've been doing some thinking about the 5 colour list and looking back through this thread saw someone attempting a wish board with Glittering Wish. This got me thinking about the toolbox sliver approach, could we be using Congregation at Dawn here? Is that just too slow or do we like the idea of rigging our top decks with gas/answers for three turns?
Here's the problem: Modern is a T4 format. Not in the 'you can't win before t4 or we get mad' sort of way, but in the you better have some sort of interaction and or control of the game or the other deck WILL. I don't think you can really waste T3 not progressing anything other than working towards some sort of future play while at the same time not developing the board state or filling your hand with answers. It makes the card not really playable I think since you would either have to play it earlier and ramp fast or later and then it should be win-more.
Unfortunately suffers from the same issues of the above listed card. I feel like my response is able to go to both. It's the reason I don't think that rainbow aggro slivers, regardless of how silly and fun, would ever actually be able to make a splash and something along the lines of the BANT list would be potentially a little bit stronger.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
4 Galerider Sliver
4 Striking Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Leeching Sliver
4 Diffusion Sliver
2 Two-Headed Sliver
4 Syphon Sliver
4 aether vial
1 dismember
Lands
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 cavern of souls
4 mutavault
4 city of brass
4 sliver hive
1 Mana Confluence
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Grafdigger's Cage
4 meddling Mage
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Thoughtseize
Sadly there is no Crystalline Sliver and the new Diffusion Sliver is a weak replacement.
Please feel free to tell me that this is bad.
What are the thoughts on running boros charm
EDH Decks
Thanks To DarkNightCavalier For the Sig!!!
IMO, all these Sliver decks are bogged down by situational pumps and effects by some of the different effects that they can give. The Mana ones are best suited for a slower format like Standard and EDH, where as the faster more effective ones are/were amazing in decks like this and MeatHooks back in the day. And besides, we have Vial making free mana each turn!
Here's my take. I call it FishHooks
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Diffusion Sliver
2 Shadow Sliver
3 Bonesycthe Sliver
3 Hive Stirrings
2 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
2 Vapor Snag
3 Path to Exile
4 Breeding Pool
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Sliver Hive
4 Mutavault
2 Mana Confluence
I feel like this could work. I'm not too sold on Hive Stirrings because it's probably too slow, and I can't really find a 3 mana Sliver that I like here.
We're most UW, with a touch of green for Predatory and Harmonic post side.
I really like the way this looks.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
It's not a strictly worse version of Merfolk. it's Merfolk with flying, double strike, and protection from spot removal.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
This list makes me wish Quick Sliver was Modern legal!
The thing about this list, is it really hurts when you don't open on Vial.
Also, Snapcaster is kind of soft in this build.
Nice work!
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28901_The-Hive.html
4 Firewake Sliver
4 Frenetic Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
4 Gemhide Sliver
1 Harmonic Sliver
4 Manaweft Sliver
1 Predatory Sliver
4 Striking Sliver
4 Virulent Sliver
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Breeding Pool
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mutavault
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Sliver Hive
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
2 To Arms!
4 Diffusion Sliver
3 Harmonic Sliver
3 Predatory Sliver
4 Blood Moon
1 Sliver Hivelord
With your build, I would also consider some number of Mana Tithe and Spell Snare.
I don't think it's too unreasonable with 8 rainbow slivers and a fetch-into-basics manabase...
Fair enough... It's kind of hard to justify.
To put that in perspective, Elves is tier 3.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I would like to know your opinion about what I've been building. Basically it gots all colors, thanks to all thouse mana cards that give you the color you want.
2 Blur Sliver
1 Bonescythe Sliver
4 Diffusion Sliver
2 Galerider Sliver
3 Gemhide Sliver
2 Homing Sliver
3 Manaweft Sliver
3 Predatory Sliver
1 Sidewinder Sliver
3 Sinew Sliver
1 Sliver Hivelord
1 Sliver Legion
2 Spined Sliver
2 Striking Sliver
2 Syphon Sliver
1 Two-Headed Sliver
2 Venom Sliver
1 Watcher Sliver
4 Aether Vial
Lands:
3 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Brass
2 Mutavault
4 Reflecting Pool
4 Sliver Hive
Would like your opinions, being constructive with them so I can learn a bit more.
Thanks!
So it's unplayable? Because if you're building around color intensive 4 drops...probably unplayable in modern. I think this deck is far too cute, but it can be a decent aggro/tempo build.
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Sidewinder Sliver
Utility Slivers
4 Galerider Sliver
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Diffusion Sliver
Counters
3 Mana Leak
3 Remand
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
4 Aether Vial
2 Perilous Research
Land
1 Breeding Pool
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Mutavault
2 Temple Garden
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
3 Rest in Peace
4 Path to Exile
So basically I'm pretty happy with my list so far that said I do have a few observations:
1) The mana is a bit greedy, I should probably drop my Mutavaults to three, scrap the Ghost Quarters all together and have a rainbow land but I like land destruction too much and the Mutavaults seem so powerful!
2) You basically have to mulligan to Aether Vial/Cavern of Souls and Diffusion Sliver in order to keep any kind of early pressure against either control or decks like Twin who will just Remand/bolt their way to victory.
3) Combo match-ups can be really, really scary game one unless you have an Aether Vial online. You have so few lands that trying to both apply pressure AND keep up counters is very tough.
4) Perilous Research is a surprisingly good card here, they bolt/path your slivers? Just use their target to draw instead! That said you do suffer from the low land count again here...
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
1 Plains
4 Sidewinder Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Diffusion Sliver
2 Harmonic Sliver
3 Mirror Entity
4 Vapor Snag
4 Spell Pierce
4 Military Intelligence
3 Void Snare
4 Sliver Hive
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Ancient Ziggurat
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Temple Garden
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
4 Sidewinder Sliver
4 Virulent Sliver
4 Striking Sliver
2 Gemhide Sliver
2 Manaweft Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sedge Sliver
3 Firewake Sliver
3 Syphon Sliver
2 Thorncaster Sliver
1 Homing Sliver
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Sliver Hivelord
3 Diffusion Sliver
3 Path to Exile
4 Void Snare
3 Galerider Sliver
3 Lightning Helix
I think the Bant slivers are a bit more plausibly currently than the rainbow slivers, but running a rainbow aggro deck in modern would be so lovely.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
That said, good call on Military Intelligence, completely durped on that one
The only counters I'm currently running are and I think that it's fairly easy to hold that back when pumping your army...? Obviously it may not be an optimal counter list, but I figured you just need to protect against what will kill or delay your play?
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
More interestingly why did you go with no Aether Vials in either list?
Sure. I've found that with Mana slivers that you are still able to power out your hand quite rapidly on a regular basis so I left them out of the rainbow list since they are a bad draw at almost any point (past turn 1-2) in the game. The reason why they didn't make the first list is because I felt with the plethora with low drops (the average CMC of the first list is 1.65) that it was better to draw gas than have a slightly better early game occasionally. The fact that it's a bad draw beyond the start of the game makes it a hesitant include. I realize that I play Merfolk and use it as an auto-include in that list, but their curve is also much higher than this list of slivers.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Originally Vapor Snag was the Path and of course they could be swapped around according to what you feel is necessary to include. Path may indeed be better than vapor snag in the list.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Here's the problem: Modern is a T4 format. Not in the 'you can't win before t4 or we get mad' sort of way, but in the you better have some sort of interaction and or control of the game or the other deck WILL. I don't think you can really waste T3 not progressing anything other than working towards some sort of future play while at the same time not developing the board state or filling your hand with answers. It makes the card not really playable I think since you would either have to play it earlier and ramp fast or later and then it should be win-more.
Unfortunately suffers from the same issues of the above listed card. I feel like my response is able to go to both. It's the reason I don't think that rainbow aggro slivers, regardless of how silly and fun, would ever actually be able to make a splash and something along the lines of the BANT list would be potentially a little bit stronger.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge