I actually thought about Zo-Zu here, and it got me thinking about what it could be good in. I wish Lotus Petal was legal, because I would make a deck work that I could call Zo-Zu's Petals.
DrWorm have you playtested this against the modern meta yet?
I have been play testing in the MTGO tournament practice for several nights over the last 10 days or so. It is not always tier 1-2, and there are several decks I have not tested against yet, but I have faced a few of them. It is hard to say how well the deck does against the meta because I keep tweaking or radically changing the build. I will try to keep the posted build intact tonight (though I think I might find room for Sowing Salt in the SB).
Kumamo actually has limited potential. The others are clearly garbage. I'll dig around a bit. I first tried it in a goblin base, but I don't love it. I guess I also prefer a Fanatic finish, but hasty Krenko due to Hammer of Purphoros isn't the worst. My initial list for reference (disregard sideboard as its just stuff I was considering).
This is just based off the gatherer search somebody posted in the 'Lets break Purphoros' thread. I'm sure there's more cool stuff to explore.
LOL...that was me. Nykthos seems like a lot of track to lay for for what it gives you, especially since 14 the permanents in your gobbo list only give you one devotion to red each. Add to that the fact that you are running such an aggressive list of creatures that it feels like they could have won or lost already simply as a function of combat.
I guess I just don't see the benefit of Nykthos ramp so far, but to be entirely honest I am not an aggro player to begin with so I will almost always drift towards controllish builds.
The lists on the OP seems weird.
It uses a way to much non-basics to make a good Use of skred.
Boseiju on the first list is almost useles, since the only spell that benefits from it is Magma Jet and using a land that ETB tapped and cost 2 life to generate colorless mana for just one spell that is not even game winning is not something good.
Cavern of Souls also seems off, since you uses Vial to avoid counters, not to mention the low creature count on the same CMC. You have only 7 on cmc 2 and 6 on cmc 3.
Legion Initiative is cute, but that is all about it. It just a bad anthem effect and the blink is just so situational that i belive it don't warrant a slot in the deck.
LOL...that was me. Nykthos seems like a lot of track to lay for for what it gives you, especially since 14 the permanents in your gobbo list only give you one devotion to red each. Add to that the fact that you are running such an aggressive list of creatures that it feels like they could have won or lost already simply as a function of combat.
I guess I just don't see the benefit of Nykthos ramp so far, but to be entirely honest I am not an aggro player to begin with so I will almost always drift towards controllish builds.
Yeah, like I said, I don't love it in the gobbo list. It does allow for some explosive turns with Siege Gang Commander and a few activations of him, or just allow you to puke out your whole hand in a turn. It's good, and in my opinion worth running in any list that has lots on monocolored permanents, but I'm looking for something more fun. Like fanatic! But Nykthos can just be about providing velocity, it doesn't have to be about huge ramp into game enders.
It uses a way to much non-basics to make a good Use of skred.
I only need enough non-basics to make the removal better than that of Bolt. It is not at all unusual to have 5+ snow lands in play mid to late game.
Boseiju on the first list is almost useles, since the only spell that benefits from it is Magma Jet and using a land that ETB tapped and cost 2 life to generate colorless mana for just one spell that is not even game winning is not something good.
It is actually a side effect of having my creatures be hard to counter which in turn leaves them counters a plenty to stop Jet and Skred, and I want that removal to resolve. I don't like having to run it, and am always judging it's value in the deck, but it has come in handy.
Cavern of Souls also seems off, since you uses Vial to avoid counters, not to mention the low creature count on the same CMC. You have only 7 on cmc 2 and 6 on cmc 3.
Vial is not a sure thing, and even if I have Vial in play if I can drop Cavern naming Shaman then I can hold Vial where I want it for solid sticking.
Legion Initiative is cute, but that is all about it. It just a bad anthem effect and the blink is just so situational that i belive it don't warrant a slot in the deck.
As a two of it works very well. It is never a bad thing to have in play or top-deck. There are multiple lines of play that it improves and it is not expensive to cast or activate. The Blink can be used to double down on Fanatic or it can be used to save creatures if I am on the beatdown.
No, Legion's Initiative is definitely a good tool in this deck. We can swing, then flicker for pseudo-vigilance, avoid wraths, save creatures doing some expensive blocking, and prevents removal for hitting our creatures (as an insurance).
As for the lands situation, there are some times where I really wished Boseiju or Tec Edge was just a Mountain or a Plains. I'm not doubting their utility, but sometimes I get screwed over by the number of nonbasics that it makes it hard to cast cards efficiently.
EDIT: Also, Blood Moon main and essentially 6 nonbasics can be seen as a nonbo
It is actually a side effect of having my creatures be hard to counter which in turn leaves them counters a plenty to stop Jet and Skred, and I want that removal to resolve. I don't like having to run it, and am always judging it's value in the deck, but it has come in handy.
EDIT: Also, Blood Moon main and essentially 6 nonbasics can be seen as a nonbo
Well I am dropping Boseiju in my list, but you just need to weigh the advantage vs any tax in might have on your ability to get stuff into play. It is a very meta card.
The one drop Red creature you could/should be using is grim lavamancer. If nothing else, it offs deathrite shaman and really forces the graveyard loving/hating fools to watch it with things like scavenging ooze and tarmogoyf, too.
The one drop Red creature you could/should be using is grim lavamancer. If nothing else, it offs deathrite shaman and really forces the graveyard loving/hating fools to watch it with things like scavenging ooze and tarmogoyf, too.
Don't think I haven't thought about it, it is just hard for me to find room- perhaps I will have to try harder to find slots for it.
Don't think I haven't thought about it, it is just hard for me to find room- perhaps I will have to try harder to find slots for it.
Checking your most recent list in the OP, I would say that seems easy enough. Aether membrane and seismic assault are the two weakest cards in that list. Grim lavamancer does the same job as both most of the time while not using resources you could otherwise play (cards in graveyard rather than tossing lands as your deck can be quite mana hungry) and can still hit directly to the face.
Checking your most recent list in the OP, I would say that seems easy enough. Aether membrane and seismic assault are the two weakest cards in that list. Grim lavamancer does the same job as both most of the time while not using resources you could otherwise play (cards in graveyard rather than tossing lands as your deck can be quite mana hungry) and can still hit directly to the face.
Basically what Rogue said. That devotion is not easily dismissed. Simply as a means of testing it I might toss Blood Knight out for a few matches for Lavamancer, but it just has such a huge target on it's back. The other thing that has always annoyed my about Lavamancer is that it is a one drop that you don't want to drop until mid-game, so it really does not help my curve at all and it sit around for a turn waiting for removal. I'll still five it whirl, but that is just why it was not given higher priority previously.
I think this deck could play 4 Reckoner and 2 Volcano Hellion for random turn 4 wins. If you use Nykthos too, you could even pay the kicker costs ^^.
EDIT: It is very important to know that you choose the number at the time the etb-trigger resolves, so you won't have a one sided life-loss if the enemy decays your reckoner.
EDIT2: Hammer of Purphoros is a thing. I think it's a better use of lands than the Seismic Assault.
HOLY CRAP THATS A CARD?
BRB GOTTA TEST
Also, I do run Boros Reckoners over Boggart Ram Gangs as OP doesn't want to buy them. So that's actually pretty cool.
Also, Hammer of Purphoros does seem better than Seismic Assault in some ways, but I'd prefer straight up burn. Haste is pretty relevant, and tone after token after token as a mana sink is pretty nifty. I'll test that as well.
It's like our replacement to Bolt. We don't cast it turn one, we cast it when we need it.
Of course, it does a lot more than Bolt later in the game.
Sure, I get that, but the thought of adding a card that only adds one to devotion would be tempered if that card was helping us curve into devotion. When I think about adding a one-drop, that is the reason.
I think this deck could play 4 Reckoner and 2 Volcano Hellion for random turn 4 wins. If you use Nykthos too, you could even pay the kicker costs ^^.
I've said what I wanted to say about Nykthos. This deck is pretty tight for room, so I am not sure that even if I was running Reckoner that I would want to use up any slots for an oops I win combo, especially since I would not want to play it many other times durring the game due to it not being easy to keep in play (devotion).
EDIT2: Hammer of Purphoros is a thing. I think it's a better use of lands than the Seismic Assault.
First, hammer is easier to remove and provides less devotion, but I think the thing for me that made Assault attractive for me was not using land permanents, it was pitching excess lands in hand. That is not to say that hammer is out of the question, but it is not as high on my test list. I would also like to point out that Seismic Assault is not really a locked in card either.
Also, I do run Boros Reckoners over Boggart Ram Gangs as OP doesn't want to buy them. So that's actually pretty cool.
I have Reckoner in paper, but I am just not sure. In Modern Ram-Gang is really not something you want to block with anything larger than it due to the counters, so it fills a nice niche. Reckoner creates a sort of similar effect, but not in a permanent way. That said it can do some hurt, and you know I like First Strike, though I do love the haste of BRG. Regardless, I do very little testing in meatspace, so I can't directly compare the two...lets just call it brewers choice.
Im not sure why everyone here is treating reckoner vs ramgang as an either-or type deal. They are both incredible for devotion, the 3cc slot isn't insanely crowded, reckoner is perfect for this deck (absolutely incredibly better than Membrane or Knight), why not play both?
I originally looked at your list and immediately dismissed membrane as a bad, 'danger of cool things' card. More than one person here has said they like it, so I tested it yesterday, and it performed abysmally. It generally only blocks once and then dies, they replay the dude. Reckoner kills what it blocks 100% of the time. The reach is only relevant for a couple dudes in Robots and then maybe WB tokens (in which blocking one token at a time isn't going to get you very far), which are both a fairly underrepresented archtype in the first place. I know you keep saying it's a flex slot, but I'd flex it sooner than later is all.
Im not sure why everyone here is treating reckoner vs ramgang as an either-or type deal. They are both incredible for devotion, the 3cc slot isn't insanely crowded, reckoner is perfect for this deck (absolutely incredibly better than Membrane or Knight), why not play both?
I originally looked at your list and immediately dismissed membrane as a bad, 'danger of cool things' card. More than one person here has said they like it, so I tested it yesterday, and it performed abysmally. It generally only blocks once and then dies, they replay the dude. Reckoner kills what it blocks 100% of the time. The reach is only relevant for a couple dudes in Robots and then maybe WB tokens (in which blocking one token at a time isn't going to get you very far), which are both a fairly underrepresented archtype in the first place. I know you keep saying it's a flex slot, but I'd flex it sooner than later is all.
Hey, if Reckoner is better for you then use it, I am just not in a position to buy them at the moment. Perhaps in a couple weeks, but I am not going to add them to my OP list until I actually get some play in with them
Oh, and reach has been relevant for me against Delver quite a bit, and against other blue tempo builds floating around MTGO.
Chandra for card draw and sometimes we insta win with her, Legion's Initiative for the banner effect and to counter Wrath of God/Supreme Verdict and for fun combat mind games.
It would seem that Figure of Destiny is the sort of one mana creature this deck would want. The Figure is more valuable in the late game than, say, Goblin Guide.
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I actually thought about Zo-Zu here, and it got me thinking about what it could be good in. I wish Lotus Petal was legal, because I would make a deck work that I could call Zo-Zu's Petals.
I have been play testing in the MTGO tournament practice for several nights over the last 10 days or so. It is not always tier 1-2, and there are several decks I have not tested against yet, but I have faced a few of them. It is hard to say how well the deck does against the meta because I keep tweaking or radically changing the build. I will try to keep the posted build intact tonight (though I think I might find room for Sowing Salt in the SB).
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
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4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Guide
4 Ember Hauler
4 Mogg War Marshal
1 Tuktuk the Explorer
1 Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician
3 Krenko, Mob Boss
3 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Rakka Mar
3 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Chancellor of the Forge
1 Goblin Grenade
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Hammer of Purphoros
Lands:24
1 Kher Keep
20 Mountain
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Urza's Factory
1 Ash Zealot
1 Goblin Wardriver
1 Krenko's Command
1 Mogg Flunkies
1 Spawning Pit
1 Warren Instigator
1 Blood Moon
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Goblin Assault
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin King
1 Goblin Ruinblaster
1 Goblin Warchief
1 Zo-Zu the Punisher
1 Elemental Mastery
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Rakka Mar
1 Soul Foundry
1 Emrakul's Hatcher
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Hostility
1 Rapacious One
I'm more intrigued by cards like:
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Seismic Assault
Figure of Destiny
Kargan Dragonlord
Furnace Celebration
This is just based off the gatherer search somebody posted in the 'Lets break Purphoros' thread. I'm sure there's more cool stuff to explore.
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I guess I just don't see the benefit of Nykthos ramp so far, but to be entirely honest I am not an aggro player to begin with so I will almost always drift towards controllish builds.
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It uses a way to much non-basics to make a good Use of skred.
Boseiju on the first list is almost useles, since the only spell that benefits from it is Magma Jet and using a land that ETB tapped and cost 2 life to generate colorless mana for just one spell that is not even game winning is not something good.
Cavern of Souls also seems off, since you uses Vial to avoid counters, not to mention the low creature count on the same CMC. You have only 7 on cmc 2 and 6 on cmc 3.
Legion Initiative is cute, but that is all about it. It just a bad anthem effect and the blink is just so situational that i belive it don't warrant a slot in the deck.
Yeah, like I said, I don't love it in the gobbo list. It does allow for some explosive turns with Siege Gang Commander and a few activations of him, or just allow you to puke out your whole hand in a turn. It's good, and in my opinion worth running in any list that has lots on monocolored permanents, but I'm looking for something more fun. Like fanatic! But Nykthos can just be about providing velocity, it doesn't have to be about huge ramp into game enders.
I only need enough non-basics to make the removal better than that of Bolt. It is not at all unusual to have 5+ snow lands in play mid to late game.
It is actually a side effect of having my creatures be hard to counter which in turn leaves them counters a plenty to stop Jet and Skred, and I want that removal to resolve. I don't like having to run it, and am always judging it's value in the deck, but it has come in handy.
Vial is not a sure thing, and even if I have Vial in play if I can drop Cavern naming Shaman then I can hold Vial where I want it for solid sticking.
As a two of it works very well. It is never a bad thing to have in play or top-deck. There are multiple lines of play that it improves and it is not expensive to cast or activate. The Blink can be used to double down on Fanatic or it can be used to save creatures if I am on the beatdown.
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As for the lands situation, there are some times where I really wished Boseiju or Tec Edge was just a Mountain or a Plains. I'm not doubting their utility, but sometimes I get screwed over by the number of nonbasics that it makes it hard to cast cards efficiently.
EDIT: Also, Blood Moon main and essentially 6 nonbasics can be seen as a nonbo
Modern: Top Control -- UWx Titan -- Loam Pox -- Footsteps Hulk
Legacy: Doomsday -- Death and Taxes -- UR Stasis -- Sylvan Plug
Pauper: UB Teachings -- UR Nivix Control
Skred can't use Boseiju.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
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Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
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Checking your most recent list in the OP, I would say that seems easy enough. Aether membrane and seismic assault are the two weakest cards in that list. Grim lavamancer does the same job as both most of the time while not using resources you could otherwise play (cards in graveyard rather than tossing lands as your deck can be quite mana hungry) and can still hit directly to the face.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I'd cut 1 Boggart Ram-Gang, 1 Ash Zealot, and 1 Seismic Assault (sometimes it sucks to have 2). 3 Lavamancers is enough for me, I feel.
I'll be testing this out.
Modern: Top Control -- UWx Titan -- Loam Pox -- Footsteps Hulk
Legacy: Doomsday -- Death and Taxes -- UR Stasis -- Sylvan Plug
Pauper: UB Teachings -- UR Nivix Control
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Of course, it does a lot more than Bolt later in the game.
Modern: Top Control -- UWx Titan -- Loam Pox -- Footsteps Hulk
Legacy: Doomsday -- Death and Taxes -- UR Stasis -- Sylvan Plug
Pauper: UB Teachings -- UR Nivix Control
HOLY CRAP THATS A CARD?
BRB GOTTA TEST
Also, I do run Boros Reckoners over Boggart Ram Gangs as OP doesn't want to buy them. So that's actually pretty cool.
Also, Hammer of Purphoros does seem better than Seismic Assault in some ways, but I'd prefer straight up burn. Haste is pretty relevant, and tone after token after token as a mana sink is pretty nifty. I'll test that as well.
Modern: Top Control -- UWx Titan -- Loam Pox -- Footsteps Hulk
Legacy: Doomsday -- Death and Taxes -- UR Stasis -- Sylvan Plug
Pauper: UB Teachings -- UR Nivix Control
I've said what I wanted to say about Nykthos. This deck is pretty tight for room, so I am not sure that even if I was running Reckoner that I would want to use up any slots for an oops I win combo, especially since I would not want to play it many other times durring the game due to it not being easy to keep in play (devotion).
First, hammer is easier to remove and provides less devotion, but I think the thing for me that made Assault attractive for me was not using land permanents, it was pitching excess lands in hand. That is not to say that hammer is out of the question, but it is not as high on my test list. I would also like to point out that Seismic Assault is not really a locked in card either.
I have Reckoner in paper, but I am just not sure. In Modern Ram-Gang is really not something you want to block with anything larger than it due to the counters, so it fills a nice niche. Reckoner creates a sort of similar effect, but not in a permanent way. That said it can do some hurt, and you know I like First Strike, though I do love the haste of BRG. Regardless, I do very little testing in meatspace, so I can't directly compare the two...lets just call it brewers choice.
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I originally looked at your list and immediately dismissed membrane as a bad, 'danger of cool things' card. More than one person here has said they like it, so I tested it yesterday, and it performed abysmally. It generally only blocks once and then dies, they replay the dude. Reckoner kills what it blocks 100% of the time. The reach is only relevant for a couple dudes in Robots and then maybe WB tokens (in which blocking one token at a time isn't going to get you very far), which are both a fairly underrepresented archtype in the first place. I know you keep saying it's a flex slot, but I'd flex it sooner than later is all.
Oh, and reach has been relevant for me against Delver quite a bit, and against other blue tempo builds floating around MTGO.
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Modern: Top Control -- UWx Titan -- Loam Pox -- Footsteps Hulk
Legacy: Doomsday -- Death and Taxes -- UR Stasis -- Sylvan Plug
Pauper: UB Teachings -- UR Nivix Control